What did he improve? Serious question because I can't see anything that improved since Jose was sacked. We are shite pretty much everywhere and for all the talk about attacking football and United way, we play very defensive football. Jose (or in fact any other manager who is not a club legend) would be slaughtered if we played like this.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Other than, quite literally, our results? What more do you need ffs.
Since Ole took over we're second only to Liverpool and City in our points per game (and not far behind them) With a decent gap between us and the best of the rest. Why are people so wilfully blind to this? It's a form of collective madness.
The question must be why has our form fallen off a cliff after we had an outstanding run of form and why does it look like most of our players aren’t even trying. For me sacking Ole won’t solve anything. What he needs is for the club to back him and appoint the right people around him. The board need to make the right decisions.
Not even sure how much Ole's input was in these as first few matches even Ole admitted everything was set up by Carrick & McKenna. Anyway, even the likes of Big Sam have a good run of 5-10 matches when they are appointed mid season
The job on his hands is begging larger by the week. He needs help going into a transfer window with soooo many issues to address.
Feel for him, a director of football should have been brought in to help months ago.
Feel for him, a director of football should have been brought in to help months ago.
Excluding Emery, Solskjaer has now lost more games the past 48 hours than the other 18 PL managers combined.
Ole doesn’t deserve to be sacked, he just shouldn’t have been given the job until the summer in the first place (and after a proper assessment of his time as interim).
Giving him the job at the point in time that we did means he deserves a proper chance next season regardless of current form.
The problem is, if we held on we would have been a position in the summer where we could have tested the waters for getting the very, very few top managers that are available (Poch, basically).
Giving him the job at the point in time that we did means he deserves a proper chance next season regardless of current form.
The problem is, if we held on we would have been a position in the summer where we could have tested the waters for getting the very, very few top managers that are available (Poch, basically).
Yep, we're going into arguably the most important transfer window the clubs had since Ronaldo was sold and nothing has changed. If we do employ a Director of Football he's going to have to react fast, why not employ someone when Ole was made official so they could prepare in advance?
Is that stat false?
No, but you know very well what you are doing
Im quoting stats.
This is really my biggest fear. I have some confidence in Ole's ability to coach and manage the squad but very uncertain about his ability to recruit well. I am specially afraid that the club may focus on "British core" strategy which will really be a disaster in my opinion.
Because people are fecking impatient melts.
100% agree with you.
Through our '2 wins in 9 period' we were betting underdogs in 4 of those losses ( away at Arsenal, both Barca legs and the City match.)
So in the matches that we were expected to win, we won 2 from 4 league matches. Losing away at Everton and Wolves. Not great obviously but not unexpected considering the last half-decade.
That fact is that if Ole hadn’t started so well, and perhaps a few of losses came earlier in his stretch, everyone would be a bit more relaxed about the whole thing.
He’s still lost two less league matches than both Poch and Sarri, and three less than Emery.
To add to this, his record against the top sides has generally been good.
We've beaten Spurs (away), Arsenal (away in F.A Cup,) Chelsea (away in F.A Cup,) and drew with Liverpool (home.) We've lost to Arsenal (away) and City (home) in the league. 3-1-2 isn't bad at all.
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Not even sure how much Ole's input was in these as first few matches even Ole admitted everything was set up by Carrick & McKenna. Anyway, even the likes of Big Sam have a good run of 5-10 matches when they are appointed mid season
We won 10 out of our first 13 matches with him in charge. We've still only played 18!
League table since Ole took over.
Sack him!
It was strange, and it will probably cause a lot of controversy but I’m sure that if there was the possibilty of another manager in the summer Ed wouldn’t have gave him the contract. He’s bound to have been on the phone to other possible managers asking if there were interested... unnoficually of course.
The problem is now will he really be given money in the summer? If he is he must be given time, it’s a massive summer for you no doubt. Biggest question is should you keep Pogba, I see other members saying you should sell DDG? Madness IMO unless he really wants out. I heard Inter would consider a trade for Icardi, do you really want that crazy bastard?
He's won 12 out of 18 games.
He deserves next season but anyone saying he's doing a good job right now or that they have no concerns is lying to themselves.
We're playing jose football right now and doing it worse, that's in spite of the fact our previous manager had fallen out with the team.
The starting form provides some leeway to him but that only holds for so long. The end of the season comes at a good time for him as i don't think our form would improve.
We're playing jose football right now and doing it worse, that's in spite of the fact our previous manager had fallen out with the team.
The starting form provides some leeway to him but that only holds for so long. The end of the season comes at a good time for him as i don't think our form would improve.
I don't disagree. It's fundamental for us to improve our physical output and really a shame that it's even something that needs to be addressed. I was just touching upon the feeling that the problems I feel Ole usually stresses on don't seem to have to with technical quality and seem more focused around energy and physicality. It's knit picking, know, but with Ole I genuinely don't know where his priorities lie I suppose.
As for time, I do think you can see a managers imprint quickly in cases. However yes there may be mitigating factors making it harder for them to be visible.
Never suggested sacking him, he shouldn't be offered a permanent job until the end of the season but that's not his fault, it's just another masterclass from Ed. Even during that amazing run some of us saw that we were riding our luck a lot and the time will come where we will struggle massively. Others were too focused singing "Ole's at the wheel" so they couldn't see anything but it was inevitable. I just think it's a wrong appointment and we will be in this exact same position in 2 years time, having wasted even more money and looking for another manager.We won 10 out of our first 13 matches with him in charge. We've still only played 18!
League table since Ole took over.
Sack him!
Tbh to Ole, he said many times that we have to sign quality players with right personality. That's something that goes without saying when any manager talks about players.
Also I think we all saw the style Ole wanted to implement, it wasn't sustainable thanks to our poor fitness. He said it few times that we are not working much on fitness because of tight schedule and lack of time and also not the time to make big changes.
Honestly some people on here have to come to terms with the fact that the likes of City and Liverpool are in a different league right now when it comes to quality. That's why we lost. It wasn't because we were lazy like against Everton. So yeah, Ole's right in saying that this was an improvement in workrate and mentality (first half at least) but the gulf in class was still there and there's no way he can or could have changed that without a transfer window and a pre-season to work on tactics. Obviously this is not where United should or want to be but that's the reality. That will probably be the reality for the next two to three years judging by how long it's took City and Liverpool to get where they're at right now. Deal with it. Stop acting like it's Ole's fault and get behind the team. If anything, blame Woodward for his shite management, blame the Glazers, wear your yellow-and-greens to the games for the rest of the season, but don't attack the one man who's trying to clean up the mess of others and who's got us challenging for the top four again without throwing his players under the buss and telling the world how great he is like Jose fecking Mourinho did.
/rant, carry on.
/rant, carry on.
Starting next season, I want to see his system in a clear form. No more of "United DNA", "This is how Ferguson would do it", "Local talent is best" nonsense. Ole needs to be his own man, clear out the deadwood, be impartial to all players local or foreign and exhibit a proper playing style.
He gets a free pass for now due to the fact that the players aren't good and he's already got the permanent contract. But he doesn't do the above by the time we are 5-7 games into next season, I assume I will want him out. Normally a slow start or tumescent football early on in the season as we saw in LvG and Jose's tenures is a massive warning sign things aren't going to go well, so it better be different next season.
He gets a free pass for now due to the fact that the players aren't good and he's already got the permanent contract. But he doesn't do the above by the time we are 5-7 games into next season, I assume I will want him out. Normally a slow start or tumescent football early on in the season as we saw in LvG and Jose's tenures is a massive warning sign things aren't going to go well, so it better be different next season.
Oh, come on. How many of those teams were taken over in a pretty much broken state mid-season? Are we supposed to ignore context entirely here?
We have multiple players on their way out. We don't know who, exactly, or how many. Their number could include some of our best individual performers. He hasn't had the chance to add a single player of his own to the mix. We've had a brutal run of fixtures since he got the job permanently - and we're still in with a chance of securing CL football for next season, against all odds. You expect him to create a "well oiled machine" under such circumstances?
What we're seeing isn't the team as he'd ideally have them play - this is bleedin' obvious. Be skeptical, by all means, it would be naive not to be. But be somewhat fair, for Christ's sake: don't identify set patterns in what is clearly makeshift XIs put out by him in very difficult conditions.
Totally agree with you, give Ollie a chance. Some supporters on the Cafe are delusional if they think the solution is to appoint someone else. Give him a chance to get rid of the rubbish.
Do those who levitate above rest of us even watch our games?
In the same time, those who wants Ole sacked, not sure they are right by asking for it.
In the same time, those who wants Ole sacked, not sure they are right by asking for it.
Agreed. But some here can’t wait to implement a British core. There is no top team with a British core anymore.
Probably the same ones who dream about front 3 of Martial - Rashford - Sancho next season which can only work in Football Manager.
For the people who say Ole shouldn't have been made permanent till the summer.
How exactly does that follow?
Ole does as he is now so we say no thanks. After the last game of the season. Do we just ring up Spurs and ask for Poch and he signs within a week? Or some other manager? Or are we stuck hiring a manager out of a job? Wenger, Conte, Mourinho, Moyes?
Because I can only imagine this place 2 weeks after the final game when United still have no new manager.
I just don't understand the "wait till the summer" arguement. Surely that's just "Don't hire Ole" but in a different phrase?
How exactly does that follow?
Ole does as he is now so we say no thanks. After the last game of the season. Do we just ring up Spurs and ask for Poch and he signs within a week? Or some other manager? Or are we stuck hiring a manager out of a job? Wenger, Conte, Mourinho, Moyes?
Because I can only imagine this place 2 weeks after the final game when United still have no new manager.
I just don't understand the "wait till the summer" arguement. Surely that's just "Don't hire Ole" but in a different phrase?
Almost as though the quality of the opposition matters, right? We got great results against week teams but have struggled recently, in tougher fixtures. Same as every season. What makes Ole's time in charge a little unusual is the way we've had a whole bunch of easy(ish) games in a row followed by a whole bunch of tough(ish) games in a row. Which has created an emotional rollercoaster and a whole bunch of people who have decided that losing a few games in a row is the end of the fecking world.
Which is why I posted that table. Taking the 18 games we've played with Ole in charge as a whole, we're still outperforming all but the best two teams in the league. And we're closer to them than we are to the chasing pack. I would interpret that as so far, so good, under any new manager. Taking into account he's done this with no pre-season, no signings and barely any breathing space between fixtures (26 games in 18 weeks) then I'd say he's done pretty damn good. Certainly a damn sight better than you'd think from the relentless negativity on here these last few weeks.
Also, good luck to our scouts and negotiators firing off emails to agents of the numerous players we need to overhaul this squad. "We don't know who you'll be playing for and have no clue if the guy we eventually hire rates you as a footballer but is there any chance you'd like to play for us anyway?"
Surely any calls for sacking Ole should be ridiculed? He has not had a pre-season or bought in any new players. Atleast give him a chance, it's not as if he's been shite in every game, we had a great run and now are on a horrible run.
What's the point of still arguing whether he should have been made permanent or not before the end of the season? I agree that the high wasn't as high as it seemed, but this low is also not as low as it seems. If a massive struggle was "inevitable", then it can be argued that a turn in form is now equally inevitable.
Looking at the 2-0-4 run in the league since the Arsenal game, United place 15th on points gained during that period. If you look at xPts, a fair position would be 9th (this is by the way just below Spurs, and better than Arsenal) - with 3.54 expected points more than gained during this run. xG shows an underperformance of 4.86 goals forward, and 3.99 goals conceded. Also worth keeping in mind the tough fixtures - Arsenal, Everton and Wolves away from home; City at home as well as Watford and West Ham, both found in the top 11 of the league.
Ole's overall record is very much acceptable, only beaten by City and Liverpool (as you would expect). Yes, xG is not a perfect performance indicator, but it's one of the better ones out there - you cannot completely disregard it.
Didn't even think of that side but yes this.
There's not going to be an overhaul. Smalling signed a contract extension on the 15th of December, that's three days before Mourinho was fired. Who gave the green light for that? Jones and Martial got new deals when Ole was still the interim manager and had only been here for a month or so. Who took those decisions? It looks like consulting the manager on contract renewals doesn't bother our board much. Why should future transfers be any different? Especially when the men in charge can hide behind a club legend and a well liked figure among the fanbase.
If Ole is sacked after his overall records with this squad that lets him down, then that would say a lot about the club.
What MU needs now is long term planning, patience, new (correct) players and establishing Oles playstyle more and more, hopefully enough squad changes that he can implement it during the summer.
If people does not see that MU is not as good as the top two teams and barca and bad enough to loose to Everton and wolves as things are, then that is due to lack of comprehension of all factors involved in this.
Again, this is not about tactics or big names as manager, it is the squad, the transfer logistics, the lack of continous playstyle and lack of leaders on the field amongst other things.
What MU needs now is long term planning, patience, new (correct) players and establishing Oles playstyle more and more, hopefully enough squad changes that he can implement it during the summer.
If people does not see that MU is not as good as the top two teams and barca and bad enough to loose to Everton and wolves as things are, then that is due to lack of comprehension of all factors involved in this.
Again, this is not about tactics or big names as manager, it is the squad, the transfer logistics, the lack of continous playstyle and lack of leaders on the field amongst other things.
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