Absolutely damning? You are convincingly choosing to stick your head in the sand and ignore the above post. I think it's clear you have an agenda here, and it seems there is no point in replying any more as you are just going to ignore what you don't like to hear.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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The irony...
How so? You are the one deliberately ignoring the other side of the argument. I don't think there is any irony here at all. Anyway, keep this thread on topic.
Its too early to judge him, Ole with squad that simply not good enough & built by somebody else, IMO, he elevate our point archieve to best that we can get, for me current situation was coused by squad quality & depth, even with overhaul next summer i think not gonna lift our potition much, top 4 at the best
Not being pessimist just need too face it, this club is complete different condition than when still in sir alex's hand, squad player, accademy, coaching staff, even management level is whole different story
We are big club, and still one of biggest ever, but right now pattient is what we need the most, i saw it feom his fist match, he has philosophy, spirit and love for this club, just need better asset
3 year is ideal to back at the champion race, atleast give him time as much as mou have
Not being pessimist just need too face it, this club is complete different condition than when still in sir alex's hand, squad player, accademy, coaching staff, even management level is whole different story
We are big club, and still one of biggest ever, but right now pattient is what we need the most, i saw it feom his fist match, he has philosophy, spirit and love for this club, just need better asset
3 year is ideal to back at the champion race, atleast give him time as much as mou have
Clear cognitive dissonance, some are ignoring the very reasonable point that is being made by @Rhyme Animal.
Losing 7 in 9 while being outplayed in 8 of those games, teams including Everton, Wolves twice, West Ham and Watford. This is relegation form.
Can you blame a fan for being worried about us not scoring a goal from open play for over 8 hours? This is objectively one of our worst periods of form since the 1960s. This is undeniable.
Don't think that I want Ole sacked, I back Ole to improve us next season. But, that does not mean I will ignore legitimate points brought up by those that don't agree with me.
Losing 7 in 9 while being outplayed in 8 of those games, teams including Everton, Wolves twice, West Ham and Watford. This is relegation form.
Can you blame a fan for being worried about us not scoring a goal from open play for over 8 hours? This is objectively one of our worst periods of form since the 1960s. This is undeniable.
Don't think that I want Ole sacked, I back Ole to improve us next season. But, that does not mean I will ignore legitimate points brought up by those that don't agree with me.
I'm not interested in 'the argument' mate, at all.
I'm interested in the actual facts of results and I've written a long post detailing Mourinho's final 10 games as a Utd manager, after he'd lost the fecking dressing room, vs Oles' last 10 games.
I've given you the results, the opponents, goals for and against, and you're not interested because it doesn't suit your agenda, and it shows that right now we're worse than we had a toxic, dressing room lost manager.
If you cared about the club, rather than appearing right or wrong yourself, you'd clearly see how ridiculous the situation is.
So, to indulge you further, lets look at Mourinho's last 15 games, vs Ole's last 15 games, hopefully that's a big enough sample size for you...
Mourinho's final 15 Utd games -
W6
D5
L4
Goals for 23. Goals against 21.
GD plus 2
Solskjaer's last 15 Utd games -
W6
D1
L8
Goals for 17. Goals conceded 22
GD minus 5
Again, Mourinho needed to go - and he had lost the dressing room. But his last 15 results, goals for and against is better than Ole's. And this was a manager out on his feet.
And again, the point isn't about Mourinho, the point is about Solskjaer.
If you're still puzzled, let me spell it out - neither are good enough.
Everyone agrees about the 7 losses in 9 is a terrible rot.
But what he does is compares just this bad patch against Jose last few games and argues we were far worse off now, discredit everything previously as new manager bounce. That is not an argument, that is a logical fallacy.
Why don't you address the quality of opposition we played as well in that comparison?. The games we have lost to would have been difficult to handle for any manager coming in in December.
Everton, Wolves Maybe. But the rest of the games we lost were against Arsenal,City, Barcelona.
Hypothetically in that run of games, for any manager to come in December, with this squad, how different do you think it would in terms of the results?
He is saying we are in a worse rut than we were earlier in the season, which is undeniable fact. And the new manager bounce idea is not something I agree with but falls in line quite neatly with the timeline.
There is a clear change in performance before and after Ole became permanent manager. We got played off the park against Watford and West Ham and were lucky to win. The Everton game was farcical. If someone suggested that this change in status for Ole caused something to change then I can't say that is unreasonable. He is no longer the interim that is doing a job, but now the guy here for real. Some players may think about their future under Ole, some may think that they prefer to play under a different manager, some may not even fancy Ole as a good manager and want to jump ship before they think it gets worse. These are all sensible possibilities that I don't agree with, but can be true.
Fergie didn't get us to CL QF in 2013, But Moyes did in 2014. That's an undeniable fact as well. That was the sort of comparison that was being made.
You have to look at the run of games we had currently to our rut in the first half of the season.
Quoting from my previous post,
Hypothetically in the last 10 games, for any manager to come in December, with this squad, how different do you think it would in terms of the results?
When exactly does this new manager bounce stop then, just as soon as we go on a terrible run?. I disagree that we won earlier in the season because of the bounce, because it went on for like 18 games, and some quality opposition as well.
Again, these are just hypotheticals and we don't know what exactly is going on. But you cannot ignore the previous results as just luck/bounce and then blame the rut on the manager.
To me, he did well initially and then we have failed because of multitude of reasons, including tougher opposition and his limitations. I would wait till next year this time to make an opinion rather than jump to a conclusion that he is clueless based on this current scenario.
Ole isn't Fergie ffs, who won 13 titles for us, won the league in 12/13 and missed the league by goal difference the year before. Ole's got about half a season of good performances and 1/4 of a seasons of poor performacnes. 1/3rd of his time as manager has seen us in relegation form while 2/3rds in title challenging form. It's not surprising that some are doubting him based on this huge swing in momentum.
Many people already saw the cracks well before our results started turning. There's a case to say that our new manager bounce lasted for a short time and our performances slowly deteriorated and this poor form was coming. Some have hypothesized that the Spurs game was the turning point, we had a poor performance against Burnley shortly after and did a job on Leicester who deserved more from the game.
I dont think he is clueless, I'll wait to make that judgement until a good portion of next season is done. He deserves a pre-season and summer window in my opinion.
You didnt answer the question, though,
Hypothetically in the last 10 games, for any manager to come in December, with this squad, how different do you think it would in terms of the results?
You didn't ask me the question so I didn't answer it
. I will try my best to answer it now. Draw in both Wolves games and a win against Everton, my expectations aren't so high.This is based on us being much better away from home this season, and also the results earlier in the season where we drew with Wolves and beat Everton. There is also the point of performances, it is ok to lose or draw games if the performance is good, but the way we lost to Wolves in the FA cup and Everton were quite bad.
Ince is at it again, I've never known a man this bitter and deluded:
Ince has some fair points but he's still a tit
I don't see much wrong with what he said tbh. It's going to ruffle some feathers though, as Ole can do no wrong, because he's a legend and all that.
I agree with most of that
I dare say the quality of Ole's FA Cup and CL opponents was a bit stiffer than that of Mou's.
What is the point of all this crap?
The whole basis of hiring Solskjaer was that the fans won't turn on him as he rebuilds, and if he fails they direct their ire to the board. However, given the posts I've read in this forum, I think it was pointless to hire him as he'll receive the same treatment as any other manager, probably even worse if our title drought continues. He probably won't be given much time or patience. Shouldn't have taken the job really.
For me personally if he were to help us clear out the deadwood, get some good players, inject some hard work and modernity into our play and give us a good solid foundation to build off of, all the while qualifying for the champions league, then his tenure would have been a successful one.
For me personally if he were to help us clear out the deadwood, get some good players, inject some hard work and modernity into our play and give us a good solid foundation to build off of, all the while qualifying for the champions league, then his tenure would have been a successful one.
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I don't have a problem with honest posters who suspect that Ole is out of his depth. That's a perfectly valid stance as far as I'm concerned. But there are a number of posters on here (more than I would've thought - it actually baffles me, though it probably shouldn't) who just flat out refuse to afford him the bare minimum normally given any new manager (nevermind one who has taken over a dysfunctional team mid-season).
Context is an alien concept, apparently. Or at least something to be ignored at will in order to wail hysterically or push a poorly hidden preference for something that won't fecking happen. Yes, that would be a reference to fecking Poch - sod off with this already, won't you. Fecking infuriating.
Context is an alien concept, apparently. Or at least something to be ignored at will in order to wail hysterically or push a poorly hidden preference for something that won't fecking happen. Yes, that would be a reference to fecking Poch - sod off with this already, won't you. Fecking infuriating.
He won't. Not from an extremely vocal set on here, at least.
We're headed for another season of "brigade" style keyboard wars at the Caf. Only difference will be that the "out" lot will - mostly - have the courtesy of adding a "I really love Ole, but..." to their posts.
All I can say is...God, I hope he proves us wrong.
Yeah, and they'd definitely want to play for you wouldn't they Incey lad?
Can't catch a break these days. Whenever we start well we get shafted by our seniors gifting goals to the opposition.
Picks De Gea, De Gea makes a mistake, rinse and repeat. Worrying Ole's not learning from this, Romero has to come in next game
Funny how there are people blaming ole for picking ddg but they never blame poch for picking Lloris who makes more howlers than ddg.
I wonder why.
Edit - directed towards poch lovers who are united fans.
I wonder why.
Edit - directed towards poch lovers who are united fans.
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Ole is not the first manager to stick with his keeper during a bad spell, especially when they are regarded as one of the best on the planet.
It's a difficult situation and both decisions (keeping him in or dropping him) can cause trouble.
It's a difficult situation and both decisions (keeping him in or dropping him) can cause trouble.
Because nobody gives a shit about Spurs or Lloris, presumably.Funny how there are people blaming ole for picking ddg but they never blame poch for picking Lloris who makes more howlers than ddg.
I wonder why.
He needs to start being ruthless with players. No more Mr nice guy.
Ole needs to get rid of DDGs mate.
I don’t think should blame Ole for not dropping De Gea, probably hoped backing him would boost his confidence but it hasn’t worked. Next game Romero should play though as it’s time to give De Gea a break.
I think Romero's needed this half, tbh
You cant blame him too much. Its de Gea. You dont drop him because of a poor run of form because form comes and goes and he can easily snap out of it. Unfortunately he's not out of it yet and its cost us today, but it is what it is. You dont pick a lesser player just because the other has lost form for the first time in ages.
Funny how there are people blaming ole for picking ddg but they never blame poch for picking Lloris who makes more howlers than ddg.
I wonder why.
Wtf, why would a UNited fan blame Spurs manager for mistake, the hell.
Dont think its that.
The feck?Funny how there are people blaming ole for picking ddg but they never blame poch for picking Lloris who makes more howlers than ddg.
I wonder why.
Same - if DDG is kept in I think Chelsea will try to exploit him with long-range efforts.
Post was directed towards poch lovers who are united fans.
It could be the contract, but we cant say for sure. Whatever it is, dropping him after a bad month is a sure fire way to make his mind up on wanting to leave IMO.
Why couldn’t he motivate the players to play like this versus Everton or other mid table team. We need consistency and I am skeptical that Ole can give us this level of consistency throughout a season. Other than, that decent selection and no complaints about his game plan.
We need consistency and I am skeptical that Ole can give us this level of consistency throughout a season. Other than, that decent selection and no complaints about his game plan.- Status