Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[crossy1686]

Solskjaer as Interim Manager: win ratio 73.7%

Solskjaer as Manager: defeat ratio 71.4%

The run of games he had when he first came in were favourable to be fair.

 

[kouroux]

Absolutely, agree 100% but the media would brandish him the first United manager ever to hand Liverpool the title and say what you like, some of our fans are fecking morons and would absolutely go along with it.

I suppose anything is possible but I highly doubt the media would react like that and if they did, it would be portrayed as just an unfortunate consequence of us beating them.

 

[crossy1686]

I suppose anything is possible but I highly doubt the media would react like that and if they did, it would be portrayed as just an unfortunate consequence of us beating them.

Don't know, have you ever been to Sky's website on a slow news day...

 

[rotherham_red]

Don't you think we could be a little more competitive? I mean losing is one thing, but we've been utterly pathetic for weeks.

Pray tell, do you remember how poor Klopp's Liverpool were in his first season? How anemic they were in tepid home defeats to Palace, or where they went life and death with the likes of a struggling Norwich and West Brom?

It's pretty obvious what's happening: Ole tried to implement his preferred style but reverted when everyone dropped like flies. He's now trying to keep all the plates in the air and doesn't know whether to stick or twist.

Even so, the tactical set ups v Barca and City were absolutely spot on and because of poor application of the plan by the team (particularly DDG) we came away with nothing. Things like that are what we should be looking at, not the results. Especially when you consider that to even be near the race for Top 4 is nothing short of a miracle, or that the players in our squad are simply not good enough. This team is a mess of 4 different managers' making. To hold Ole to account for it is to be moronic beyond comprehension.

Give him time, just like Liverpool did with Klopp. Or at least let him shape the team in his image. He's built two teams at Molde who punched above their weight and both were comprised very differently with different age profiles. A lower level, yes, but he has shown that he has that ability.

 

[bosnian_red]

Don't you think we could be a little more competitive? I mean losing is one thing, but we've been utterly pathetic for weeks.

Against Barca and City, it pretty much went as expected. The home game was competitive and an own goal decided a game that ultimately had very few chances, while we didnt take our decent chance with Dalot's header. They're a vastly superior side, away from home something like 3-0 was pretty much as expected.

Against City, again, I've said it before but they're probably the best side in the world to me. They didnt exactly create many chances, in fact there was pretty much nothing between the teams in terms of chances. It was competitive, at least until they scored their 2nd. After that everyone knew the game was done. They are a vastly superior side both on paper and in practice, and against better teams you just need to take your chances and have everyone on it. Instead, de Gea conceded 2 soft goals again and Lingard missed the net with a sitter.

You can mention poor performances against west Ham and Watford, which I wont disagree with, but we also hammered Arsenal but lost 2-0 because we didn't have that bit of luck, hit the woodwork twice, they got gifted an imaginary pen, and de Gea let in a nothing shot from 35 yards out. We controlled the league game against Wolves, created enough chances to score 4, but finishing let us down. Simple finishes let us down, and then a dumb decision from Young to get sent off and then an own goal partly down to De Gea losing form for the first time in ages.

Everton was an awful performance and result, there is no escaping that and no excuses to be made. But they are a good side regardless, have regularly upset the big sides like Wolves have, and the extent of the result was the biggest problem with that, not the loss itself IMO. It was a shit game where we got let off in the grand scheme of things because Arsenal fecked up against Palace and Chelsea fecked up against Burnley, so we got away with that.

I'll ask you the question though. If we beat Chelsea at Old Trafford and the last 2 games, end with 73 points and finish 4th, does that change your opinion? If we win the next 3 and finish 5th on goal differential, does that have an impact? Or just pick up 7 from the last 3? Summarizing his time here would have Ole pick up 45 points from 21 games if we get 7, 47 from 21 if we win all 3 (but 3rd in the league since he took over regardless), reaching a CL quarter final and losing to Barca, and then reaching the FA Cup quarter final but losing in the end to Wolves away after beating both arsenal and Chelsea away. What would you summarize his half season as? Still a mess? Still not good enough?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

What they did not though is look like pub teams. Our football right now is about as bad as I’ve ever seen us play. I for one see absolutely nothing that makes me believe Ole has what it takes to become as good or better as them. Early days still though.

But giving him the job permanently as early as we did was a mistake. You don’t do these kind of deals without proper due diligence.

What would due diligence look like in this instance, specifically?

 

[Godfather]

What would due diligence look like in this instance, specifically?

Not giving him the job on the basis of a few games during a honey moon period. Simple. We discussed this before but there is something seriously wrong with our club if they threw Jose out without a plan for his succession.

Ole should have stayed interim and during that time (or even better before that) we should have looked for a progressive manager that has shown at other clubs that he is able to play attractive and successful football.

 

[dove]

After first 10 or so matches with Ole in charge - we have a great team, Jose was a fraud, Ole's at the wheel.
Next 10 - team is shit, Ole is faultless, let's look for parallels with how Klopp started at Liverpool or Pep at City.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Not giving him the job on the basis of a few games during a honey moon period. Simple. We discussed this before but there is something seriously wrong with our club if they threw Jose out without a plan for his succession.

Ole should have stayed interim and during that time (or even better before that) we should have looked for a progressive manager that has shown at other clubs that he is able to play attractive and successful football.

What makes you think that didn't happen?

 

[Godfather]

The change is presumably going to come from better players coming in the summer when he has a chance to add players he wants instead of being stuck with the mess of Mourinho. And nah, it's not great, but it was against vastly superior opponents. So it's not exactly a disaster.

Everton was awful, not disputing that. They did also hammer Arsenal just before that game though (result didnt show it there but was pretty much the same performance), they so hammered Pep 4-0 in his first season. Shit happens. Judge after the next 3 games. If we get into the CL, is it still such a disaster? Because that's a very real possibility. Look at us from where he took over, and if after 21 games we pick up 47 points and end on 73 points, is that an awful, disastrous spell? No, it's a pretty fecking good one.

I'm not saying he should be given the boot yet. Not at all. Yes, give him a transfer window or two. But from what I've seen I'm not impressed and I don't think he'll make it here. Hopefully I'm wrong though.

 

[kouroux]

Not giving him the job on the basis of a few games during a honey moon period. Simple. We discussed this before but there is something seriously wrong with our club if they threw Jose out without a plan for his succession.

Ole should have stayed interim and during that time (or even better before that) we should have looked for a progressive manager that has shown at other clubs that he is able to play attractive and successful football.

Not even that for me, we simply should have waited for the season to finish and then assess. If Ole does well all things considered then he'd deserve a shot at it. We just went too premature

 

[Pogue Mahone]

After first 10 or so matches with Ole in charge - we have a great team, Jose was a fraud, Ole's at the wheel.
Next 10 - team is shit, Ole is faultless, let's look for parallels with how Klopp started at Liverpool or Pep at City.

You say that like those opinions are mutually exclusive. Which they aren't.

 

[Godfather]

What makes you think that didn't happen?

Are you implying that Ole is that? Because he hasn't shown that at any club he was before.
Or are you implying we couldn't find one? If so we are even more incompetent than I thought.

 

[Leftback99]

Was anyone expecting us to win against this City team with this squad?

By the reaction in here we should of have won every game since Ole was made permanent. Otherwise we should have waited until the end of the season when Poch would definitely sign and he would have comfortably beaten City and the rest with this team.

 

[JustAGuest]

After first 10 or so matches with Ole in charge - we have a great team, Jose was a fraud, Ole's at the wheel.
Next 10 - team is shit, Ole is faultless, let's look for parallels with how Klopp started at Liverpool or Pep at City.

You are missing the context. Jose had 2 full seasons before this one.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Not even that for me, we simply should have waited for the season to finish and then assess. If Ole does well all things considered then he'd deserve a shot at it. We just went too premature

I said this at the time we signed him. Looking at the fixtures ahead, we were always going to have a turnaround in fortunes. It was an impossible task for Ole to keep up that phenomenal run against much tougher opponents, with the exact same squad of players that's been miles off the pace all season. And as soon as we started losing games, you'd get fans forgetting all about the initial few weeks with him in charge (best PL opening run of any manager ever) throwing their toys out the pram and demanding that we look for someone else instead.

Giving him the job when we did was supposed to nip this imminent uncertainty in the bud. Now we all know (fans and players alike) that Ole is going nowhere any time soon all we can do is get behind him, support the team and be as positive as we can about United under Solskjaer next season. Perhaps they underestimated the capacity for negativity amongst United fans (to put it mildly!) but I still think most fans are seeing the bigger picture here and not predicting abject failure, just because we lost a few tough games with the previous manager's squad.

 

[Fredo]

Ole is trying the best he can do with a mediocre squad that turns up when they feel like it, cannot wait for summer to come so we can start the rebuilding process, so many players need to leave it is unbearable.

 

[kouroux]

I said this at the time we signed him. Looking at the fixtures ahead, we were always going to have a turnaround in fortunes. It was an impossible task for Ole to keep up that phenomenal run against much tougher opponents, with the exact same squad of players that's been miles off the pace all season. And as soon as we started losing games, you'd get fans forgetting all about the initial few weeks with him in charge (best PL opening run of any manager ever) throwing their toys out the pram and demanding that we look for someone else instead.

Giving him the job when we did was supposed to nip this imminent uncertainty in the bud. Now we all know (fans and players alike) that Ole is going nowhere any time soon all we can do is get behind him, support the team and be as positive as we can about United under Solskjaer next season. Perhaps they underestimated the capacity for negativity amongst United fans (to put it mildly!) but I still think most fans are seeing the bigger picture here and not predicting abject failure, just because we lost a few tough games with the previous manager's squad.

I understand why they did it from their POV but I still think it wasn't necessary. Maybe it was done in a way to reassure certain players about the direction the club was taking ? Fans should rarely be listened to tbh, it's never wise

 

[astracrazy]

I think we need to bring in an experienced coach.

Ole has management experience, but its not top level, and he is flanked by Kieren and Michael who also have little experience. Phelan is there, but I don't think he does much coaching from what I understand and he wants to move upstairs.

If you compare us against the other top teams, its something we are missing (experience on the bench).

 

[dove]

You are missing the context. Jose had 2 full seasons before this one.

He did, and was deservedly sacked (a bit too late though). A bit funny though how people constantly look for excuses why we are still so shite, can anyone honestly say we are better now than 4 months ago, when Ole took the job? Because we clearly aren't. Still cannot defend, cannot create, cannot score, cannot string 2 passes together most of the time and just generally look clueless. Apart from a new manager bounce where everything went our way (even during that time quite a few of our performances were average at best and we could have easily lost on the other day), I have seen absolutely nothing to convince me that Ole is the right man for the job (don't even mention PSG game.). I think it's a very emotional appointment which will end in tears.

 

[bosnian_red]

Not even that for me, we simply should have waited for the season to finish and then assess. If Ole does well all things considered then he'd deserve a shot at it. We just went too premature

The problem with that is that we needed to plan ahead of time for the summer. No matter the set up, if you are waiting until the end of the season to decide on a manager, you are going to struggle to sort things out regarding contracts on your own players, bringing other players in negotiation negotiating with other managers. It was a situation that needed sorting out, and given that Ole had performed really well and no realistic stand out candidate from outside (dont think Poch was going to leave Spurs this season anyway, not when they just built the stadium and have hope for the step up now), it was a decision that made sense.

Even looking at our likely finish to the season - 7 to 9 points from our last 3. Ole would have picked up 45-47 points from 21 games, reached the QF in both the CL and fa cup, and had us picking up the 3rd most points in the league since the day he took over and in with a good chance of finishing 4th. Considering what he took over, I think we all would have taken that back then without much hesitation. So whether we appointed him early or at the end of the season, he still would probably have deserved it based on his performance overall.

 

[bosnian_red]

I understand why they did it from their POV but I still think it wasn't necessary. Maybe it was done in a way to reassure certain players about the direction the club was taking ? Fans should rarely be listened to tbh, it's never wise

It had to be done. You cant make any plans with players you have and those you want to sign if they dont even know who the manager will be. No manager will put everything on hold waiting for one club to decide if the interim manager they currently have will stick around full time or not. Decisions had to be made and we made them, and imo itll be a good one in the end. Just needs time and patience because there is a lot to do, because the squad is a mess.

 

[red woppit]

He did, and was deservedly sacked (a bit too late though). A bit funny though how people constantly look for excuses why we are still so shite, can anyone honestly say we are better now than 4 months ago, when Ole took the job? Because we clearly aren't. Still cannot defend, cannot create, cannot score, cannot string 2 passes together most of the time and just generally look clueless. Apart from a new manager bounce where everything went our way (even during that time quite a few of our performances were average at best and we could have easily lost on the other day), I have seen absolutely nothing to convince me that Ole is the right man for the job (don't even mention PSG game.). I think it's a very emotional appointment which will end in tears.

So who is the right man for the job?

 

[Mylock]

Let's look at the facts when we discuss Ollie as being appointed as FT manager. He was appointed only as an interim manager with no one expecting him to get the job full time. Most fans were writing off the season and hoping the club could entice Posh from spurs. Then he gets the team to go a great run and he gets the job fulltime which he had deserved at the time. The results collapsed and the players fall back into the medoricity that they have produced over the last 6 years. Now fans are starting to question ollie. Posters here and United fans need to settle down and give him a chance to get rid of players which don't deserve to be at United and that shouldn't have been bought in the 1st place, that should be Ollie's number 1 job. If he can clear out the deadwood we can start afresh. He needs to sit pogba down and get him to commit or split, all this continuous - will he stay or leave bullshit needs to stop. Rashford and Martial need to start to deliver or should be out the door as well, all this talk of potential is overhyped, both are in the team for at least 3 years and are no better than when they started. We need to be realistic on what can be done over the next 2 seasons. Let them get rid of all the crap 1st, as Keano said last night we need 1st to buy a new defence and work from there, this is going to take time. I as a United supporter for 40 years have seen worst times than now, if we could see all the crap gone, a few leaders bought as the spine of the team and start to bring in some of the academy players it would be a good start. There are enough good players out there who would improve us considerably that can be got, we don't always have to be looking at the world greatest. Look at spurs and liverpool, they have bought players from the lesser teams in the league and have feared out well. Give ollie a chance.

 

[red woppit]

Let's look at the facts when we discuss Ollie as being appointed as FT manager. He was appointed only as an interim manager with no one expecting him to get the job full time. Most fans were writing off the season and hoping the club could entice Posh from spurs. Then he gets the team to go a great run and he gets the job fulltime which he had deserved at the time. The results collapsed and the players fall back into the medoricity that they have produced over the last 6 years. Now fans are starting to question ollie. Posters here and United fans need to settle down and give him a chance to get rid of players which don't deserve to be at United and that shouldn't have been bought in the 1st place, that should be Ollie's number 1 job. If he can clear out the deadwood we can start afresh. He needs to sit pogba down and get him to commit or split, all this continuous - will he stay or leave bullshit needs to stop. Rashford and Martial need to start to deliver or should be out the door as well, all this talk of potential is overhyped, both are in the team for at least 3 years and are no better than when they started. We need to be realistic on what can be done over the next 2 seasons. Let them get rid of all the crap 1st, as Keano said last night we need 1st to buy a new defence and work from there, this is going to take time. I as a United supporter for 40 years have seen worst times than now, if we could seen all the crap gone, a few leaders bought as the spine of the team and start to bring in some of the academy players it would be a good start. Give ollie a chance.

Totally with you on all that.

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

It had to be done. You cant make any plans with players you have and those you want to sign if they dont even know who the manager will be. No manager will put everything on hold waiting for one club to decide if the interim manager they currently have will stick around full time or not. Decisions had to be made and we made them, and imo itll be a good one in the end. Just needs time and patience because there is a lot to do, because the squad is a mess.

There is of course the idea that you would weigh importance of getting the right manager (finally) versus the importance of keeping a bunch of players who have proven very little. The club had a very precise plan in place to use December through May to assess all candidates and then make a choice. Throwing that plan out the window looks incompetent.

 

[kouroux]

It had to be done. You cant make any plans with players you have and those you want to sign if they dont even know who the manager will be. No manager will put everything on hold waiting for one club to decide if the interim manager they currently have will stick around full time or not. Decisions had to be made and we made them, and imo itll be a good one in the end. Just needs time and patience because there is a lot to do, because the squad is a mess.

And in the end all the players who truly don't matter are the ones who signed extension (Jones, Smalling, Young) and our biggest players haven't (Herrera, DDG and Pogba) so the decision didn't need to be made when we did. It was so desperate from us and long term there is a good chance it'll bite in the ass because Ole could simply be not good enough.
Our club always chooses to bow down to players rather than making the manager is the right one. Premature and possibly costly again

There is of course the idea that you would weigh importance of getting the right manager (finally) versus the importance of keeping a bunch of players who have proven very little. The club had a very precise plan in place to use December through May to assess all candidates and then make a choice. Throwing that plan out the window looks incompetent.

This.

 

[bosnian_red]

There is of course the idea that you would weigh importance of getting the right manager (finally) versus the importance of keeping a bunch of players who have proven very little. The club had a very precise plan in place to use December through May to assess all candidates and then make a choice. Throwing that plan out the window looks incompetent.

There was a plan to assess our options and of course Ole was an option depending on performance. I'm sure we assessed our options. I'm pretty sure Pochettino was never leaving, so what exactly were our options? Take a punt on Zidane (who went back to Madrid so again, how much of an option?), keep Ole who was performing brilliantly, or take a huge gamble on some random? Fact is that Ole performed better than any manager would have done in his situation, and on the whole has still done really well. He got the job because he had done a well enough job to deserve a shot at it given there wasnt exactly some stand out candidate waiting to take it, and we needed to sort it out early so we can get started with summer plans. Its not only a case of keeping players we had. It's about any player we go after. Trying to sign players when they dont have a clue about your managerial situation is incredibly difficult as youd expect. It needed sorting out.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

You can see in recent weeks who Ole is favouring and which players have been given the chance to prove their worth.
I feel Ole knows by now who is on the chopping block:
Lukaku
Young
Herrera
Rojo
Matic
Mata
Possibly Bailly too.. .

I'd say these might be the 6/7 who will be vacating this summer. All of which have been given very limited game time

Then it doesn't say much for the ones he favours as we have lost 7 out of 9 games.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

What makes you think that didn't happen?

Because we made a huge decision within 3 months when there was absolutely no reason to.

 

[dove]

So who is the right man for the job?

Whoever the club identified before. Just after Jose was sacked we saw briefings from Ed about how we are going to hire DoF before the permanent manager, how we are going to go through intensive search for the new manager, how we already have our targets etc. Apparently everything was thrown out the window the second we picked up a few good results as they thought Ole is a perfect man for them. Cheap, will never complain about lack of funds or quality of players, majority of fans will turn a blind eye to him (and we see it now) because he is a legend and he is generally very liked person. Unfortunately no one ever talks about his managerial abilities which kind of sums it up. Just like we are a business and money making machine rather than a football club, Ole's appointment has very similar vibes.

 

[just2moreplayers]

I suspect that OGS WON'T be given a huge amount of money to spend over the summer. The 'jury' will still be sitting on the fence and wondering if they need to save their money until the following January window for the new replacement manager.

 

[bosnian_red]

And in the end all the players who truly don't matter are the ones who signed extension (Jones, Smalling, Young) and our biggest players haven't (Herrera, DDG and Pogba) so the decision didn't need to be made when we did. It was so desperate from us and long term there is a good chance it'll bite in the ass because Ole could simply be not good enough.
Our club always chooses to bow down to players rather than making the manager is the right one. Premature and possibly costly again

This.

Those 3 players were leaving regardless IMO. It's not like it was this sudden run of form that convinced them they want to leave. There were rumors for ages and it's just close to the end of the season so naturally things will reach a peak.

Yeah, Ole can fail here. Anyone can. But there was as much of a risk appointing him as pretty much anyone. We'll see how it plays out. There is literally no point in fearing the worst and then talking about that as if it will for sure happen when theres no telling what will happen. We'll see how the summer goes. We'll see how our squad looks with a pre season with Ole in charge, and we'll see how the season goes. It's unfair to judge him this season too harshly, especially considering his overall impact has been very positive and we're still in a position that 4 months ago all of us would have taken without hesitation. It's important to not lose sight of that.

 

[Smallings biggest fan]

Wow... Just Wow.

One thing is thinking Ole Gunnar is not right manager for United is one thing. But what I have read in the last couple of pages on this thread amazes me. What if Pochettino gets hired in the summer, uses 100 mio £ and then starts by losing the first match of the season with 2-1 against newly promoted Sheffield United at Old Trafford? Fire him and try another one?

This squad is maybe the worst squad in many years that is now assembled by Sir Alex, Moyes, LVG and Mourinho. 4 managers, 4 different styles. And now Ole comes in as the fifth manager with a fifth playing stile. And clearly you have to see that this squad does not really suit this style. So he has to change the players before we even can think about challenging the best teams. Furthermore are the players extremely fragile in their mentality.

To really be earning the right to play for United you have to understand what it means. You fight for every ball. If there is a slight chance you can get the ball you go 100 % for that. But how many players have this mentality in the squad today? I can think of three players and one of them is definately not good enough, one is leaving because United forgot to give him a new contract offer and the third is playing his first full season in the first team. In case you are wondering who they are they are Young, Herrera and McTominay.

Would the results have been better against Barca, Wolves, Arsenal and City if it was announced that Ole was not gonna be manager after this season? Or if it was still not announced who would bed? I do not know but i seriously doubt it.

If I look at the mentality and quality of the players in the first team then I have counted at least 18 players that should be sold. And of course United is not going to sell 18 players in one summer. 8-9 maybe but that will not happen two summers in a row. And besides youth players United really need to buy the correct players. And if Ole buys five players this summer at least four of them have to be great succeses if United are to compete.

I am not sure that Ole is the right one. I think he has shown many weaknesses, but offcourse he needs time. United have a broken and fragile squad that doesn't suit the style Ole wants to play and that is probably also what the culprit of them all, Woodward, wants. So Woody needs to back Ole 100 % this summer. If Ole feels he needs 8 new players he has to get 8 new players.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Because we made a huge decision within 3 months when there was absolutely no reason to.

Doesn't that make it more, rather than less, likely that we explored other options but couldn't fine one better than Ole?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I understand why they did it from their POV but I still think it wasn't necessary. Maybe it was done in a way to reassure certain players about the direction the club was taking ? Fans should rarely be listened to tbh, it's never wise

Yeah, I think giving the players certainty for the season ahead was a factor too. Not just our own players but the players from other clubs we're considering signing. They would be understandably reluctant to negotiate to join a club when they've no clue who will be managing them the following season.

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

Yeah, I think giving the players certainty for the season ahead was a factor too. Not just our own players but the players from other clubs we're considering signing. They would be understandably reluctant to negotiate to join a club when they've no clue who will be managing them the following season.

But do you think they're more likely to commit to the ex Molde manager?

 

[Sarni]

But do you think they're more likely to commit to the ex Molde manager?

Why does it work against him that he managed Molde?

Zidane and Pep managed reserve teams before taking over at Madrid and Barca. Was it more appealing for the players?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

But do you think they're more likely to commit to the ex Molde manager?

Than they are committing to a manager they don't know the identity of? Yes, I do.

Apart from the risk of ending up under a manager they already know/dislike why would you sign for a club when the bloke who will be managing you had no part in that decision? Much better to join a club knowing that someone has a specific plan for you in their team.

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

Why does it work against him that he managed Molde?

Zidane and Pep managed reserve teams before taking over at Madrid and Barca. Was it more appealing for the players?

Zidane and Pep were brought into absolutely star-studded squads. They weren't brought in to rebuild a club.