He's making a point they had an easy run in the cup...
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
- Status
It was in cup game, nothing to do with league game. Their road to finals was easy, funny how you want to big that up and somehow play down win vs PSG as win vs Chokers.
1 shot on target in both of these games is a largely good performance for you? Jesus wept. And you just chose to ignore our masterful performance against mighty Everton? I don’t see a game plan, I don’t see any identity or even the slightest change of how we play. No pressing, non existing attacking football and players well below their already low standards.I see the same cnuts like Lingard still getting games for us albeit not providing anything other than stupid Instagram posts. So where is the change going to come from?
But the idea is that the first time they were tested, they lost? However, its a cup final, can go either way. And all I did was illustrate that in other competitions, they showed that they could compete against better opposition.
we didnt really look like scoring did we?
the truth is somewhere in the middle
the question about Ole is that even with these players against the mighty Man City shouldn't we create more? in Citys last 6 games against Spurs x3, us, Brighton and Palace they all had more shots on target as us.
We've barely laid a glove on teams lately and we haven't scored in nearly 9 hours from open play .
that quite obviously is not good enough
Im behind Ole and he deserves a transfer window at least but patience will run out if we are still playing like this next season after 4/5 additions
it's simply not good enough
You don't think we fluked our way past the perennial chokers of the Champions League? And that since then, it's been clear that we're quite simply not even good enough to compete against slightly decent teams.
I'm not even trying to big it up. They made two finals. We haven't. They beat good opposition in the EL. We could barely muster a fecking chance in the CL.
No what is fecking ridiculous is you losing your shit and being all dramatic over a few results when Oles time here has still been more than positive. Pep and Klopp are the two top managers in the world and have been for years. In their first seasons, they struggled massively. Klopp more so as he didnt have a pre season and summer window. They are indisputably ahead of Ole. Yet they struggled. So now that Ole got knocked out of the CL in the QF against Barcelona, because we lost to City who will get over the previous league record points tally points 2 seasons in a row, because we lost in the FA Cup QF after getting drawn away to Arsenal, away to Chelsea and then away to Wolves, that's reason to freak out? Nowhere am I saying he is a better manager. But if he performs better after taking over halfway through a season compared to them, then surely he deserves a bit of credit and understanding that it's a tough situation regardless and that some patience is needed before overreacting.
Again different argument, something that's done so many times.
Why can't people be honest with themselves on this forum? As other posters have stated every clubs run to a final gets talked down on redcafe nothing new there. but to say United deserved anything other than to be knocked out against PSG is absurd. They were the 2nd best side in both legs and went through to a penalty that would never have been given without VAR and probably shouldn't have been given anyway.
Dress up Ole's record all you want but at the end of the day, he's lost pretty much every big test he's come up against except Arsenal. Flukey wins against Spurs & PSG don't paper over that. But, as I said previously, give the man time. The worry I have is United becoming 90's Liverpool and making decisions based on nostalgia for the good times instead of changing with the game and planning for the future. If there's no improvement by this time next year though then he'll need to go I think.
Asking people to be honest and post a dishonest post.
Well, lingard did miss literally an open net because he has no left foot. Of course if this run continues into next season, that isnt good enough. But theres 3 games left this season and it's still possible to achieve what looked impossible when he took over. That's all that matters. We lost form, yes, but they were also some fecking tough games. It was pretty much in agreement that if we got into the top 4, it wouldve been a fantastic achievement for Ole. That's sti a very strong possibility (though I think we'll miss out on goal differential in the end).
No, its one argument. Klopp came into a similar situation and actually showed signs of moving forward. Ole has come in and after an initial good run of 8 games we've been gone back to where we were when Jose was sacked - 7 wins, 2 draws and 8 losses since winning 8 in a row.
PSG was nothing special especially at home so to say we deserved nothing but going out is actually absurd. Spurs game too is portrayed like we barely escaped with our dear lifes which of course isn't true. So about being honest..
The change is presumably going to come from better players coming in the summer when he has a chance to add players he wants instead of being stuck with the mess of Mourinho. And nah, it's not great, but it was against vastly superior opponents. So it's not exactly a disaster.
Everton was awful, not disputing that. They did also hammer Arsenal just before that game though (result didnt show it there but was pretty much the same performance), they so hammered Pep 4-0 in his first season. Shit happens. Judge after the next 3 games. If we get into the CL, is it still such a disaster? Because that's a very real possibility. Look at us from where he took over, and if after 21 games we pick up 47 points and end on 73 points, is that an awful, disastrous spell? No, it's a pretty fecking good one.
You don't knock out a team over two legs on luck alone.
yes I agree with that - still the quality of the players we have should be providing a bit more - it's not like Palace or Brighton have superior players
there's just so much to sort out it would be tough for an experienced manager and board
we are a fecking mess right now at every level
The main concern I had these last months is that we haven't seen any kind of basis or development in terms of style for the future, nothing solid to build from, but I guess once the season ends he will start setting his foundations in every way. When Ole came first he unleashed the players and allowed them to express with tons of movement and freedom in attack. High line, hard pressing and I perfectly remember how around one month or two we used to recover a lot of balls near the opposition box, but in almost every game after 60-70 minutes we were asking for the final whistle.
Then the injuries started around March, we finally changed tactics and started calculating efforts more, and from that point we never pressed high again nor showed much movement around. Our football became worse in every way, similar in certain fashion to what we saw under Jose and the cracks both collective and individual started to show again. We've been getting results for some time based on that positive inertia and the good moment of confidence, but once we started with the injuries, the contracts distractions and got a pair of bad results it's like everything went down the drain.
I see the man in the last months trying to survive more than thinking about building anything, and I feel he's changing too much every week both in terms of line up and formation. So we find currently without any clear basis or pattern and without knowing if we'll see Matic, Rojo or even Darmian in the next game, it's like everything is totally undefined at the minute. Also dynamics are bastard and it seems we can't get results now even in those games we play half decently like Arsenal, or Wolves away in the league with blunders in defence, missing open goals for fun, a stupid red card, giving the ball away for free near our box, etc.
So in the end Ole gives me a feeling of certain insecurity, like he doesn't know well which button he needs to push at the moment so I understand the concerns around the man, but what people ignore and some of you conveniently is that the margins to work with this team are very very thin. We talk about a squad that can't perform under a minimal sign of pressure as we've seen, a squad with certain quality if you go player by player, but lacks homogeneity in terms of style and have been poorly coached for years in a technical, tactical and physical way.
We talk about a bunch that even under Jose never ever learnt to be solid while defending deep, even with 10 players behind the ball, and relied on the keeper to save us even against the dross of the league on a constant basis. We talk about a group of players incapable of playing the ball from the back without panicking, something that Mourinho never attempted to fix (or he was totally useless at it). We talk about a bunch who was horribly coached physically which limits the margins to play in certain ways, as we've seen. We talk about an overpaid bunch composed by mediocre characters without any personality, maturity or leading skills. In overall, an absolute turd.
We need a massive reset both as a team and more than probably inside the dressing room, and this is why I think Ole is putting a lot of emphasis around effort, discipline and outworking the opposition with his recent comments. You can have a lot of talent around, play the ball from the back and do beautiful 1-2 combinations, but if you don't have a proper basis to build from and a really commited group with discipline, strong mentality then you're Arsenal under Wenger at best.
We need to improve massively on the technical side and we should demand improvements too, but at the moment we're building on wet sand. Nothing we do on this current bunch will lead us nowhere, so we need to reset the whole thing and go to the basics first, so we can start walking before aiming to run. If he succeeds or not in the process is yet to see, but at least I like the idea of having someone trying to instill the right values and ambitions both on and off the field, so I have a lot of time for the man, club legend or not.
Then the injuries started around March, we finally changed tactics and started calculating efforts more, and from that point we never pressed high again nor showed much movement around. Our football became worse in every way, similar in certain fashion to what we saw under Jose and the cracks both collective and individual started to show again. We've been getting results for some time based on that positive inertia and the good moment of confidence, but once we started with the injuries, the contracts distractions and got a pair of bad results it's like everything went down the drain.
I see the man in the last months trying to survive more than thinking about building anything, and I feel he's changing too much every week both in terms of line up and formation. So we find currently without any clear basis or pattern and without knowing if we'll see Matic, Rojo or even Darmian in the next game, it's like everything is totally undefined at the minute. Also dynamics are bastard and it seems we can't get results now even in those games we play half decently like Arsenal, or Wolves away in the league with blunders in defence, missing open goals for fun, a stupid red card, giving the ball away for free near our box, etc.
So in the end Ole gives me a feeling of certain insecurity, like he doesn't know well which button he needs to push at the moment so I understand the concerns around the man, but what people ignore and some of you conveniently is that the margins to work with this team are very very thin. We talk about a squad that can't perform under a minimal sign of pressure as we've seen, a squad with certain quality if you go player by player, but lacks homogeneity in terms of style and have been poorly coached for years in a technical, tactical and physical way.
We talk about a bunch that even under Jose never ever learnt to be solid while defending deep, even with 10 players behind the ball, and relied on the keeper to save us even against the dross of the league on a constant basis. We talk about a group of players incapable of playing the ball from the back without panicking, something that Mourinho never attempted to fix (or he was totally useless at it). We talk about a bunch who was horribly coached physically which limits the margins to play in certain ways, as we've seen. We talk about an overpaid bunch composed by mediocre characters without any personality, maturity or leading skills. In overall, an absolute turd.
We need a massive reset both as a team and more than probably inside the dressing room, and this is why I think Ole is putting a lot of emphasis around effort, discipline and outworking the opposition with his recent comments. You can have a lot of talent around, play the ball from the back and do beautiful 1-2 combinations, but if you don't have a proper basis to build from and a really commited group with discipline, strong mentality then you're Arsenal under Wenger at best.
We need to improve massively on the technical side and we should demand improvements too, but at the moment we're building on wet sand. Nothing we do on this current bunch will lead us nowhere, so we need to reset the whole thing and go to the basics first, so we can start walking before aiming to run. If he succeeds or not in the process is yet to see, but at least I like the idea of having someone trying to instill the right values and ambitions both on and off the field, so I have a lot of time for the man, club legend or not.
God it's like Mourinho over again, half wanted him in and half wanted him out.
I'm firmly in the Ole-out camp now, praying to God that we get Ole to leave on mutual agreement and get in a decent coach.
No Ole doesn't deserve time, wonder why the people in RedCafe want to give time, transfer window, pre-season and everything for a manager but when it comes to players we have to absolutely ruthless in everything. We heard every sort for excuse for Mourinho's crap football and now for Ole it's apparently our players are fit enough to deal with Ole's pressing style, what utter bullshit. So the players are not even fit enough to pass or make runs?
Our problem even in SAF's last season was lack of a proper style, we had a style under LvG, but it wasn't good enough. The easiest and the most common tactic is sitting back and launching long balls forward, IMO anyone can implement this lazy style in any side and that's what Mourinho did and that is what Solksjaer is doing now. There are plenty of examples of stupid manages who setup their sides like this, this is the easiest way to coach a side and that's what we will see under Solksjaer if we give him time.
The competition has changed and the football has moved on, we have three managers in the league who drill their side day in day out in pressing, passing and movement patterns while our players keep launching long balls forward and are asked to figure it out in the pitch and we keep hearing buzzwords from our managers like running fast, working hard etc.
I'm firmly in the Ole-out camp now, praying to God that we get Ole to leave on mutual agreement and get in a decent coach.
No Ole doesn't deserve time, wonder why the people in RedCafe want to give time, transfer window, pre-season and everything for a manager but when it comes to players we have to absolutely ruthless in everything. We heard every sort for excuse for Mourinho's crap football and now for Ole it's apparently our players are fit enough to deal with Ole's pressing style, what utter bullshit. So the players are not even fit enough to pass or make runs?
Our problem even in SAF's last season was lack of a proper style, we had a style under LvG, but it wasn't good enough. The easiest and the most common tactic is sitting back and launching long balls forward, IMO anyone can implement this lazy style in any side and that's what Mourinho did and that is what Solksjaer is doing now. There are plenty of examples of stupid manages who setup their sides like this, this is the easiest way to coach a side and that's what we will see under Solksjaer if we give him time.
The competition has changed and the football has moved on, we have three managers in the league who drill their side day in day out in pressing, passing and movement patterns while our players keep launching long balls forward and are asked to figure it out in the pitch and we keep hearing buzzwords from our managers like running fast, working hard etc.
It's a mixture of confidence, injuries, natural bounce after a great run, and fixtures just catching up with us IMO. None of the games we lost individually stand out as shocks, bar the Everton game (losses can happen to them as they are a good side, but 4-0 shouldnt happen ever). Agree theres loads of work to do and itll be difficult, but all we can do is have some patience and see how it plays out. People flipping out right now is way too pre mature given that we can finish 4th, and Ole hasnt had any time to actually try to sort out our situation but has done pretty well with what hes been given.
Thats it, kick him out!!
He's a fraud.
Ole has got this team to within touching distance of 4th and nearly the same amount of points as Arsenal and Chelsea and recently Spurs who have all had a pre season and a transfer window with their manager to prepare. Recent results are disappointing but hopefully we can win the next 3 to get 4th.
fecking hell. You're one of those supporters who think theres only 1 correct way to play football arent you? One of the single worst paragraph I've ever fecking read on here. Go take a break and have a look at yourself. Go support Pep or Barcelona or some shite if the only style of football that you think is an appropriate style of play is that.I like the part where he says it's like in Mourinho time and then says he's firmy Ole out camp. We have a camp already?
yes they have played their part but you'd expect more from a team who have any pride - I wouldn't say Brighton are a team brimming with confidence - instead they are a team fighting for their lives or in the case of their match against City fighting to get to the cup final
the results haven't been the major disappointment - it's been the performances - we were truly awful against Wolves in the cup, were incredibly lucky to get undeserved wins v West Ham and Watford who outplayed us, apart from the first 5 mins of the away game we were no threat against Barca, Everton needs no comment and last night we were limp
you wonder last night had we played Greenwood instead of Lingard might we have seen a bit more - I'm not sure about the level of the likes of Garner and it might have been unfair to throw them in against City but the performances have been unacceptable
I hope we start taking some steps in the right direction
If sitting back deep and launching long balls into the channels and a targetman is the other way, then yes there is only one correct way to play football.
Was anyone expecting us to win against this City team with this squad?
It's been four months and there has been no improvement in the perennial problems that we've had, poor passing, lack of movement etc. These things won't magically improve in one month of pre-season or by buying 2 to 3 players. Why waste a entire year and millions of money instead of correcting a poor decision?
I think everyone expected a half decent performance against Everton TBF.
Plenty in here were, if you judge by all the kneejerk reactions flying in after the game.
Ole would not be the Utd manager next season if the 'board' had waited until the end of the season to make the decision.
Now we have got Ole, everyone needs to back him. It's not going to be easy, Infact I think it will be very difficult. All we can do is win our remaining 3 games and go from there. Come on UTD!
Now we have got Ole, everyone needs to back him. It's not going to be easy, Infact I think it will be very difficult. All we can do is win our remaining 3 games and go from there. Come on UTD!
Judging by the reaction on here, apparently they expected us to beat City, get past Barcelona, win the FA Cup and be top of the league all throughout Oles time here.
It doesn't look like this was thought through, Ole didn't get the Man Utd job, the club panicked and got a group of people who've played for United and put them together, they all are the "manager". I'm happy to give him a chance but it's not promising given how every decision he makes in games first comes from a group conversation, he pretty much proves it when he insists on mentioning the backroom staff by name over and over to praise then. I'm not confident in them as a group given the lack of experience managing the biggest club in the world.
I've seen stupid posts on this forum to help further their own view, some even claimed spurs to be a big club just to justify Poch's ability to manage a big club But the bold part on another level of stupid.
If you cannot figure out why we have to give a manger pre season/transfer window and be ruthless with our players then I feel for you, life must be hard.
Theres still a fair chance he would get it if the last 3 results go as expected.
Summarizing Oles time here if we get 7-9 points from the last 3:
- 3rd in the league since the day he took over, picking up 45-47 points from 21 games
- Knocked out PSG in the CL ro16, lost to Barcelona in the QF
- Knocked out Reading, Arsenal away, Chelsea away, lost to Wolves away in the QF
- Good chance of ending 4th or level on points with 4th despite being 10 points off pace when he took over
- Gave a solid amount of game time to youth players
Did you know that Everton havent conceded against Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and United in the past 1.5 months? 3 wins and 1 draw? Theyre a good side. Obviously we shouldnt be losing 4-0 to anyone, but shit results and performances will happen to everyone on occasion. No use in getting hung up on it.
Don't you think we could be a little more competitive? I mean losing is one thing, but we've been utterly pathetic for weeks.
It could go terribly wrong. We should be prepared for that. But it really makes no sense to read too much into performances like last night, and some people do exactly that.
There are plenty of heavy factors to consider here:
* Players not having been sufficiently prepped for the sort of football Ole seemingly wants us to play. They clearly played with much more intensity at the beginning of the "honeymoon run", not just with lower shoulders.
* Injuries.
* Ole starting out as an interim (who knows exactly when he was given the go-ahead to begin implementing anything with the long-term in mind). He wasn't confirmed as permanent manager until fairly recently.
* Any number of players being unsettled in one way or another. We aren't privy to who this applies to, nor to how badly it influences what happens in the dressing room/on the training pitch.
People overstate certain things because they're generally unconvinced by Ole's credentials (or, in some cases, because they're fixated on other candidates, especially Poch), but the fact is that all of the above would've been problematic for anyone taking over this particular squad at this particular time.
In my opinion the only sensible take on this, given the realities, is to wait and see what emerges after a transfer window and a full pre-season. You have people now who seemingly take losing against City as some kind of final straw, which is patently absurd. Did they actually expect us to defeat a City team fighting for the title? Based on what? The "logic" applied by some seems to be that unless Ole convinces them through performing sheer miracles, he falls short. Again - that's completely absurd.
There are plenty of heavy factors to consider here:
* Players not having been sufficiently prepped for the sort of football Ole seemingly wants us to play. They clearly played with much more intensity at the beginning of the "honeymoon run", not just with lower shoulders.
* Injuries.
* Ole starting out as an interim (who knows exactly when he was given the go-ahead to begin implementing anything with the long-term in mind). He wasn't confirmed as permanent manager until fairly recently.
* Any number of players being unsettled in one way or another. We aren't privy to who this applies to, nor to how badly it influences what happens in the dressing room/on the training pitch.
People overstate certain things because they're generally unconvinced by Ole's credentials (or, in some cases, because they're fixated on other candidates, especially Poch), but the fact is that all of the above would've been problematic for anyone taking over this particular squad at this particular time.
In my opinion the only sensible take on this, given the realities, is to wait and see what emerges after a transfer window and a full pre-season. You have people now who seemingly take losing against City as some kind of final straw, which is patently absurd. Did they actually expect us to defeat a City team fighting for the title? Based on what? The "logic" applied by some seems to be that unless Ole convinces them through performing sheer miracles, he falls short. Again - that's completely absurd.
Except that that post absolutely puts the best possible spin on a set of results, a spin that simply doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. Frankly, during the “run”, our performances have oscillated wildly, between “decent” to “shocking”. Let’s not kid ourselves here - Ole has come in, and has won many (not all) games because the opposition were generally poor against us. That is no reflection on Ole, but it is still true.
- Tottenham - DDG got us through, when Tottenham really should have put us to the sword.
- Arsenal in the cup - it’s Arsenal, in the cup.
- PSG - they toyed with us, and that hubris brought their downfall.
When we have come up against teams that actually have the nous to simply go for our soft underbelly, we have been humiliated. The defeat to Arsenal? Wolves - we were actually humiliated by them, let’s not pretend we weren’t. Barcelona - how can we defend that performance? Everton? City? How many more times will we need to watch these performances to understand?
Ole was appointed because he loves his club, and was a cheap option. The fact he is loved by all of us, including me, should not blind us to reality. He’s not a top-level manager, and he hasn’t got the managerial tools required to do the job, or the force of personality and track record to take on the club hierarchy.
Ole will be made a scapegoat for the failings of the club. That is the bitter truth many of us suspect - he won’t be backed to the extent needed to rehabilitate this failing institution, his reputation will be tarnished by a squad of mercenaries, and by Christmas, a club legend will be humiliated and ignominiously sacked, while the core of our club is further hollowed out. Vulture capitalism ad infinitum.
Absolutely, agree 100% but the media would brandish him the first United manager ever to hand Liverpool the title and say what you like, some of our fans are fecking morons and would absolutely go along with it.
- Status