Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Wumminator said:
One of the obvious issues is a hypothetical situation that you think might happen?
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It's not hypothetical that he has zero experience in overhauling a top side and being on his own. And it's not a far stretch to say he won't have the experience or managerial gravitas to push Ed Woodward on what he needs done. As a manager he just has Molde to his CV.

If Pep or Klopp or even Poch turned to Ed and said "I need xyz players if you want to see quality like what I did with my other sides" then Ed would likely need to do the business. Ole might have a tricky time persuading a stubborn mule who just wants Varane profiles or nothing else.
 
Wumminator said:
I absolutely did not imply it.

Here is the conversation.

“Pep and Klopp did well at previous clubs”

“So did Ole”

“Well Molde are not as good as Barcelona”
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So is Ole's achievements of doing well at Molde comparable to Pep and Klopp's achievements of Dortmund and Barca/Bayern?
 
roonster09 said:
All it says is Jose got 19 less points than Liverpool in 17 games whereas Solskjaer got just 5-7 points less than City/Pool in 18 games
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Right. Which on paper is hardly a basis for appointing him as manager. I'm sure that if he was still interim manager at this point then his appointment as permanent manager would be, well, let's say less than certain.

Obviously the context of the results makes a difference but still, it's remarkable that these are this season's results given he was appointed almost solely based on his results this season.
 
VP89 said:
So is Ole's achievements of doing well at Molde comparable to Pep and Klopp's achievements of Dortmund and Barca/Bayern?
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No.

Before Pep got the Barce job or klopp got the Dortmund job, they are quite similar though aren’t they.

Almost like we are talking about different managers at different times in their careers.
 
VP89 said:
I must retract that, not publicly of course. But in his own mind he must think we need wholesale changes. If he genuinely believes in the likes of Rashford to be top stars for us then it's a doubt for him as a manager. I cannot have faith in misjudgement like that.
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I thought so, as i highly doubt any manager will say that in public. I am sure he wants to get rid of many players here but you also have to look at the man in charge of selling and buying those players. When Jose came in I expected him to clear the shit out but well, you know the rest.

Time will tell if he at least plans to sort this out, at the moment don't care about whether he says one thing or another.
 
It's true that most managers would struggle with this side, who are largely cowards. And today's result has little bearing on things in the grand scheme.

I also think it's true that the things that convinced many that Ole could do the job - making said cowards play for the shirt, play some good football and win - are now firmly out the window. Thus, he's our manager now mainly due to sentiment, and we're hoping he can miraculously rebuild the squad over the summer and reclaim the glory days.

That's not to say he's destined to fail, the dream could still happen. But let's not beat around the bush, it's sentiment and hope that we're clinging onto, rather than any kind of rational decision making. To be fair I think it's hit and hope with any manager out there, right now.
 
Forgetting the results for a second, there is no clear structure or pattern to our play. There is no progression with our performances. They are getting worse and worse.

It is the same disjointed mess as under Jose with the main difference being DDG being in horrific form.

All of the criticisms pointed at Jose for our performances apply to OGS at the moment. Of course OGS isn't a mopey bastard like Jose is, so there's that.
 
Wumminator said:
No.

Before Pep got the Barce job or klopp got the Dortmund job, they are quite similar though aren’t they.

Almost like we are talking about different managers at different times in their careers.
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OK, so if the achievements are not similar it's probably worth not saying "ole has won stuff too" as a rebuttal. Surely you're implying they are comparable by doing so, which you've just agreed they aren't.

AJ10 said:
I thought so, as i highly doubt any manager will say that in public. I am sure he wants to get rid of many players here but you also have to look at the man in charge of selling and buying those players. When Jose came in I expected him to clear the shit out but well, you know the rest.

Time will tell if he at least plans to sort this out, at the moment don't care about whether he says one thing or another.
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Yeah, I got heated in rage when making that point in haste. I'd love to see our squad publicly stripped and sold because I've had enough, but as long as the bulk of it happens behind the scenes I am happy.

One of my problems with Ole as mentioned earlier is his judgement, before looking at the tactical side of the game. He seems lost in this aura of youth and giving players a chance because they're young and quick. It's like he doesn't value technique enough.
 
sullydnl said:
Right. Which on paper is hardly a basis for appointing him as manager. I'm sure that if he was still interim manager at this point then his appointment as permanent manager would be, well, let's say less than certain.

Obviously the context of the results makes a difference but still, it's remarkable that these are this season's results given he was appointed almost solely based on his results this season.
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Why not? If these losses were spread evenly then it wouldn't have been a problem. Trailing this City/Liverpool by 5-7 points is not bad considering the shit state we were in.

Also you said it, context of results.
 
VP89 said:
OK, so if the achievements are not similar it's probably worth not saying "ole has won stuff too" as a rebuttal. Surely you're implying they are comparable by doing so, which you've just agreed they aren't.



Yeah, I got heated in rage when making that point in haste. I'd love to see our squad publicly stripped and sold because I've had enough, but as long as the bulk of it happens behind the scenes I am happy.

My problem with Ole as mentioned is his judgement, before looking at the tactical side of the game. He seems lost in this aura of youth and giving players a chance because they're young and quick. It's like he doesn't value technique enough.
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Which technical players is he keeping out of the side out of interest?
 
Wumminator said:
Oh. I see. Ole should be starting the technical genius that has been Alexis Sanchez in a United shirt.
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There's no need to be sarcastic, a fit Sanchez with a point to prove would be more sharp than a striker who would conceivably struggle to get into a Leicester or Everton side. Or even play ahead of Lingard - at least we know that tap in would have hit the net.

It goes beyond that too. His tactical changes are sometimes just bizzare. You're left thinking, really?

Like taking Lukaku at OT off for Martial against Barcelona when Lukaku was our sharpest attacking outlet doing everything right. Then having us whip balls in with Lukaku off the pitch and Rashford/Martial getting bullied by their centre backs.

Or putting Jones and McTominay to change the game against Everton. It's just bizzare. Seeing Sanchez and Martial come on to salvage a game with 9 minutes left to play was yet another one.

The players suck, I get it. But Ole isn't helping himself. If we are praising him for the big run of wins we should be consistent in criticizing him for the string of losses.
 
In the hours leading up to the game, I was so up for it. The leaked line up, though eye rolling, was water off a duck’s back. I was still optimistic of a real reaction from the players and the manager picking a more coherent XI to allow them to deliver.

I can’t lie though. After seeing the line up, I’ve never felt so empty walking to the ground. I’d always back us to deliver at home, would always feel that we have every chance of winning, but tonight I just had fear: fear of embarrassment, fear of humiliation, fear of the realisation that I no longer have faith or hope for the future.

First half we fought, we delayed the inevitable, but again how was that a formula that was likely to score, let alone win at home? There’s no system here at all. City looked immaculately coached and every single one of their players could fill the role of any other. None of our midfield, wide or forward players have any semblance of understanding of what it is the collective needs to do to be successful.

That’s Ole’s biggest failing. Motivation takes you a long way in sport, but there has to be something underneath that to support it. Since Paris it feels as if someone has pointed out the lack of the emperor’s clothes and there’s nothing to fall back on. City scored today and we had no answer. Nobody knew how we were supposed to score. Oh look, 10 minutes to go, United have four forwards on pitch and can’t create anything for them: the sign of a desperate manager.

This is an all-time miserable run, not just in results, but in performance and design. You’ve got to go back to the post-Munich 60s to find such a collection of losses. We’ve not kept a clean sheet, in what, 12 matches? We’ve not scored in 4 of our last 5 and not from open play since McTominay against Wolves.

How are the current squad, regardless of their individual and collective merits, supposed to have faith in the manager to take us forward? I’m confused as a supporter who follows with real attention and commitment. I have no clue what it is Ole wants from these players, even less than I did under Mourinho. We’re already at the stage of random XIs interspersed with hollow soundbites about the past. I thought nostalgia was the Scouse disease. It already feels terminal in our club.

If we lose to Chelsea, Ole will be done in eyes of our current squad and by everyone else too. We cannot go into next system with both a dead man walking and without any semblance of a playing system. Ole, you’re always be loved here, but that’s too much of an ask. You’ve got to give us something to build on.
 
Question for you; Ole said to media “I’m going to be successful here”... was that 1. Delusion, 2. Bluff, 3. Well placed confidence or 4. Putting players in their place?

I don’t think a top-tier manager with genuine belief and a track record behind him says something like that. For me, that statement tells us everything about the path we are on. Interested in how others read it.
 
I have always felt we had nothing to loose if we had been patient until end of the season to make this decision.
He has never convinced me that he was the right man for the job and I don't think he will last. We will sign players in summer and we will remain poor.
 
TMDaines said:
In the hours leading up to the game, I was so up for it. The leaked line up, though eye rolling, was water off a duck’s back. I was still optimistic of a real reaction from the players and the manager picking a more coherent XI to allow them to deliver.

I can’t lie though. After seeing the line up, I’ve never felt so empty walking to the ground. I’d always back us to deliver at home, would always feel that we have every chance of winning, but tonight I just had fear: fear of embarrassment, fear of humiliation, fear of the realisation that I no longer have faith or hope for the future.

First half we fought, we delayed the inevitable, but again how was that a formula that was likely to score, let alone win at home? There’s no system here at all. City looked immaculately coached and every single one of their players could fill the role of any other. None of our midfield, wide or forward players have any semblance of understanding of what it is the collective needs to do to be successful.

That’s Ole’s biggest failing. Motivation takes you a long way in sport, but there has to be something underneath that to support it. Since Paris it feels as if someone has pointed out the lack of the emperor’s clothes and there’s nothing to fall back on. City scored today and we had no answer. Nobody knew how we were supposed to score. Oh look, 10 minutes to go, United have four forwards on pitch and can’t create anything for them: the sign of a desperate manager.

This is an all-time miserable run, not just in results, but in performance and design. You’ve got to go back to the post-Munich 60s to find such a collection of losses. We’ve not kept a clean sheet, in what, 12 matches? We’ve not scored in 4 of our last 5 and not from open play since McTominay against Wolves.

How are the current squad, regardless of their individual and collective merits, supposed to have faith in the manager to take us forward? I’m confused as a supporter who follows with real attention and commitment. I have no clue what it is Ole wants from these players, even less than I did under Mourinho. We’re already at the stage of random XIs interspersed with hollow soundbites about the past. I thought nostalgia was the Scouse disease. It already feels terminal in our club.

If we lose to Chelsea, Ole will be done in eyes of our current squad and by everyone else too. We cannot go into next system with both a dead man walking and without any semblance of a playing system. Ole, you’re always be loved here, but that’s too much of an ask. You’ve got to give us something to build on.
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We've more points than Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal since he took over.

So Poch, Sarri and Enery should also be sacked? Seems that way since they've had alot more time and been able to sign players.
 
OGS is not to blame for the mess our club is in. The most enjoyable time since Fergie left was during the run we went on after OGS was signed. He cares for this club and will give it his all. How many players we have are giving their all? They did for a while but the moment after OGS gets the job, what happens? They stop giving a effort and we can´t do the basics again, we are lazy as feck and we lack quility all over the park. Please play Greenwood and give a chance to Garner,Gomes and Chong. They can not be worse than many of those players currently playing. Pogba,Martial,Lingard,Rashford think they are so much better than they are. Fred bless him must be related to Kleberson as he can´t pass a ball. Pereira,Darmian,Young,Jones,Rojo,Lukaku,Sanchez,Bailly,Valencia,Mata,Lingard,Matic should be shipped out a.s.a.p. I think Pogba,Herrara and De will leave as they seem to want to. Martial and Rashford need to step up but I doubt they have the talent.
OGS has really be handed a bad hand and there is no way around it. We need to rebuild from scratch as a result of most of our signings for the past 6 years having turned out to be dreadful. The best signing by far was Ibra up until he was injured.

Squad for next season:

GK: De Gea(hopefully he stays and finds form),Romero,Henderson
RB: Wan Bissaka, Laird,Dalot - I think Laird is a great talent.
CB: Lindelof, De Light(offer him what ever money is needed and make him Captain, he´s a leader),Smalling,Tuanzebe
LB: Shaw,Sessengon
Midfield: Rice(he´s a leader),Erikssen,Ndombele,Pogba(hope he stays but think he´s leaving)Herrera(hope he stays),Garner,Gomes,
RW: Sancho,Chong,Greenwood
Striker: Rashford,Greenwood,M.Dembele
Lw: Martial,Sessengon,Chong

We should be trying all we can to get Rabiot on a free and perhaps 1 or 2 loan deals could be done? Bale?
 
Again, board fecking clueless board went for the yes man type of manager easiest and cheapest choice. We should have waited and see what's are our options. Cnuts.

What is Ole trying to do with this team?
How he sets up a team with such disjointed style.
How Young starts?
How Lingards touches the ball?
Many questions but first, Losing 7 is not acceptable under any manager. It is a sackin situation.
 
SteveW said:
We've more points than Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal since he took over.

So Poch, Sarri and Enery should also be sacked? Seems that way since they've had alot more time and been able to sign players.
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They didn't have the benefit of a new manager bounce. Spurs beat this lot over two legs to get into the semi-finals of the Champions League. Meanwhile we got thoroughly outclassed by a mediocre Wolves team in the FA cup and played like relegation fodder against Barcelona, barely registering some shots on target over two legs of football.

How about we discuss we are on our worst run in God knows how long? Getting outplayed by teams like Everton, West Ham, Wolves, Watford etc. How about we discuss we've lost 7 out of our past 9 games? What about the fact that those teams have an identity that is clearly being established, whereas apart from hopeful counter-attack play, we have no identity. Could also mention how fecking predictable our tactics are against any decent team, with 5 in defence and two isolated strikers.

The football and results are getting worse game by game. We are looking more and more clueless game by game. We are approaching LVG levels by not being able to register shots on target.

As I've said before, same brand of football as Mourinho, just done worse. We fired the superior manager to try and accomodate the players. They're a bunch of useless fecks who deserved to be outed and attacked the way they were under Jose. They couldn't handle dealing with someone who wouldn't be settle for anything less than winning.

Now they have someone who is far more easy to manipulate and they will probably get him fired too.
 
I did think the tactics today worked quite well for the first half. With Sane on though we did struggle more as they got more pace and trickery to the side.

I don't think he could have improved us very much in the big games since we are not really good enough to dominate against Barcelona and City.
Although confidence and sticking with players being in terrible form is a big problem though and it keeps costing us goas.

We lack structure and patterns though to help break teams down and create chances.
 
VP89 said:
Yeah, I got heated in rage when making that point in haste. I'd love to see our squad publicly stripped and sold because I've had enough, but as long as the bulk of it happens behind the scenes I am happy.

One of my problems with Ole as mentioned earlier is his judgement, before looking at the tactical side of the game. He seems lost in this aura of youth and giving players a chance because they're young and quick. It's like he doesn't value technique enough.
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I highly doubt he's going to tell our young players to Feck off (personally prefer a manager to give youngsters a chance) but as for technique, we'll just have to wait an see who are his targets. But first thing first there needs to be clear out of average players from our club. If we don't get rid of these players then we're fecked next season as the same problem remains as it did with previous managers (same shit players playing each week).
 
Womp said:
They didn't have the benefit of a new manager bounce. Spurs beat this lot over two legs to get into the semi-finals of the Champions League. Meanwhile we got thoroughly outclassed by a mediocre Wolves team in the FA cup and played like relegation fodder against Barcelona, barely registering some shots on target over two legs of football.

How about we discuss we are on our worst run in God knows how long? Getting outplayed by teams like Everton, West Ham, Wolves, Watford etc. How about we discuss we've lost 7 out of our past 9 games? What about the fact that those teams have an identity that is clearly being established, whereas apart from hopeful counter-attack play, we have no identity. Could also mention how fecking predictable our tactics are against any decent team, with 5 in defence and two isolated strikers.

The football and results are getting worse game by game. We are looking more and more clueless game by game. We are approaching LVG levels by not being able to register shots on target.

As I've said before, same brand of football as Mourinho, just done worse. We fired the superior manager to try and accomodate the players. They're a bunch of useless fecks who deserved to be outed and attacked the way they were under Jose. They couldn't handle dealing with someone who wouldn't be settle for anything less than winning.

Now they have someone who is far more easy to manipulate and they will probably get him fired too.
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New manager bounce ffs.

Wolves beat Arsenal 3-1 tonight.
 
AJ10 said:
I highly doubt he's going to tell our young players to Feck off (personally prefer a manager to give youngsters a chance) but as for technique, we'll just have to wait an see who are his targets. But first thing first there needs to be clear out of average players from our club. If we don't get rid of these players then we're fecked next season as the same problem remains as it did with previous managers (same shit players playing each week).
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He doesn't need to tell them to feck off but he's made a signal about his preference when he name drops players who will get chances for us going forward, when one of them is no way near United quality.
 
SteveW said:
We've more points than Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal since he took over.

So Poch, Sarri and Enery should also be sacked? Seems that way since they've had alot more time and been able to sign players.
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I'm pretty consistent on largely writing off the initial games of new managers, especially those that join mid-season after a previous manager has been sacked, as motivation can carry you a long way. It's pointless to make a long term managerial appointment of someone because of a good run then. I'm really not interested in the virtues of our manager next season simply not being Mourinho and making the dressing room more harmonious.

If you feel the need to wait until Ole's league win percentage drops below Poch's and Emery's then that's up to you. The complete lack of any coherent approach since Paris speaks in far greater volume to me.
 
We hit a rough patch and the knives are out I see. You could appoint whoever as the manager, no one will be able to do consistently well with these set of players in the long run. Players miss simple chances, most have a horrendous first touch, can’t keep the ball against pressure and can’t pass the ball. Its not last 9 matches, its been there for the better part of last 4 years. Ultimately, in football, quality of players dictate who comes out on top. Ole might or might not be the right man to lead the massive transformation that is required, but these last 9 matches are no indicator of his quality as a manager.
 
I would love to ask Neville and Keane if on this current form and overall, had Woodward waited till the end of the season would Ole even had the chance of being made permanent manager. To me now it just seems to be a knee jerk decision on the back of that PSG game!
 
SteveW said:
New manager bounce ffs.

Wolves beat Arsenal 3-1 tonight.
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Yep and we lost to a worse team 4-0 only a few days ago. Arsenal are shite, but at least under Emery they have an identity they are trying to implement.

Also yes - it's not uncommon that teams do very well when new managers replace old ones, especially in cases where those players were unhappy etc. New environment, new management, new ideas - it creates a buzz. Eventually it subsides though, which is when managers earn their money. Under Ole we're looking more and more clueless
 
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