Nuri Sahin

People would happily have a player wth fitness concerns who can't break into the first team of Madrid and expect him to automatically improve our midfield just because he's a midfielder.

Indeed. I'd always be concerned if I were a club looking to buy a player who's hardly played for a full season because of a knee injury especially.

Had a great season last year at Dortmund by all accounts, but hasn't done anything at Madrid for whatever reason. I think that's the reason why clubs dno't seem to be clamouring for him.
 
He hasn't done anything at Madrid because he was injured and he has Alonso and Ozil ahead of him.
 
People would happily have a player wth fitness concerns who can't break into the first team of Madrid and expect him to automatically improve our midfield just because he's a midfielder.

He was Bundesliga POTY at Dortmund and helped them to the title - people who watched him then say he's good.

However, I've only seen him at Madrid, initially recovering from injury, and then looking average to lost when he did finally play.

The rumours out of Madrid in January was they wanted a loan deal for him so he could get some playing time, and we were supposed to have been offered him then. Towards the end of the season the rumours switched to Mourinho thinking he was too slow, and too inexperienced to compensate for that - again they talked about looking for a loan, but with an edge that said they'd listen to offers (though I doubt they're ready to give him away)

So if the people who reckon he'd improve our midfield are saying it on the strength of what they saw in his Bundesliga time, maybe they're right. If they're saying it on the basis of the past year, then they're way too optimistic - Madrid's youth team players have done better with their scraps of game time than he's done with his.
 
He hasn't done anything at Madrid because he was injured and he has Alonso and Ozil ahead of him.

Exactly - injured for a full season pretty much. Exactly my point. Not a good sign in a player so young. Especially when its a knee rather than a broken leg or something similar - it also seems from reports that he was supposed to be back a lot earlier but it kept getting put back - again, not a good sign long term.
 
He's available on the cheap, in a position we need desperate strengthening. He was more than decent in his time at Dortmund. Would be glad if we signed him for anything less than 10mil.
 
I think Real Madrid owes us a couple of favours for all the good deals we've given them with Beckham, Ruud and Ronaldo. Should be their turn to return some good business.
 
I think Real Madrid owes us a couple of favours for all the good deals we've given them with Beckham, Ruud and Ronaldo. Should be their turn to return some good business.

Yeah right!!

But I think for anything elss than £10m hes worth a gamble.
 
He was Bundesliga POTY at Dortmund and helped them to the title - people who watched him then say he's good.

However, I've only seen him at Madrid, initially recovering from injury, and then looking average to lost when he did finally play.

The rumours out of Madrid in January was they wanted a loan deal for him so he could get some playing time, and we were supposed to have been offered him then. Towards the end of the season the rumours switched to Mourinho thinking he was too slow, and too inexperienced to compensate for that - again they talked about looking for a loan, but with an edge that said they'd listen to offers (though I doubt they're ready to give him away)

So if the people who reckon he'd improve our midfield are saying it on the strength of what they saw in his Bundesliga time, maybe they're right. If they're saying it on the basis of the past year, then they're way too optimistic - Madrid's youth team players have done better with their scraps of game time than he's done with his.

first and foremost id rather we play da silva and jones in midfield again than spend money on many of these superstars being managed in here.

however (see bold) same could be said about van der vaart.
 
People would happily have a player wth fitness concerns who can't break into the first team of Madrid and expect him to automatically improve our midfield just because he's a midfielder.

No they would expect him to improve our midfield because he is a quality midfielder. This is the one and only season he has missed through injury as far as i know, yet we continue to expect Anderson, and Cleverley who have persistently struggled with injury over the past few seasons, to improve our midfield, and yet compared to Sahin they are still mostly unproven.

Scholes cannot go on forever and Carrick is the only effective defensive minded midfielder we have. Sahin could do either of their jobs, is a proven midfield general for a successful title winning team, and due to his injury at Madrid, could be available for a reasonable price.

I don't think that is exactly a lunatic scenario. We have to buy someone sooner or later surely, why not Sahin? Is he still injured? I seem to recall Mourinho saying he would have to offer a bit more to get in ahead of Alonso and Khedira, that suggests to me he was recoverign from innury, not still injured. It was a while ago though, so he may well have suffered a setback i am not aware of.
 
first and foremost id rather we play da silva and jones in midfield again than spend money on many of these superstars being managed in here.

however (see bold) same could be said about van der vaart.

You can add Sneijder to that too. Failure at Madrid means very little when you look at how they merry go round players every single season.

Anyone who watched Sahin for Dortmund knows what he is capable of, regardless of how he has performed for Madrid.
 
That would only be yet another plus point in signing him imo.

I agree. In fact I dont think there's a downside. Anyone can get injured, it doesnt mean they're injury prone, and in our case it simply means he's cheaper.

The problem, as I see it, is that Mourinho knows this too. He will wont to keep him and get the value they hoped to get when they signed him
 
My only major concern with Sahin is fitness. He'd be a welcome addition if he can perform the way he did for Dortmund but we've got 2 already injury prone CM's in Clevs and Ando with 2 35+ players in Giggs and Scholes who's playing time has to be managed.
 
I agree. In fact I dont think there's a downside. Anyone can get injured, it doesnt mean they're injury prone, and in our case it simply means he's cheaper.

The problem, as I see it, is that Mourinho knows this too. He will wont to keep him and get the value they hoped to get when they signed him

Thing is and this is yet another plus point in any attempts to sign him. Madrid picked him up with only a year left on his contract and got him for £8m. So even if they were to sell him for £16m, they would still have doubled their initial outlay after only 12months, while making room in the squad for the possible arrival of Modric.
 
Have we had that Inter may be in for him in here yet?
 
My only major concern with Sahin is fitness. He'd be a welcome addition if he can perform the way he did for Dortmund but we've got 2 already injury prone CM's in Clevs and Ando with 2 35+ players in Giggs and Scholes who's playing time has to be managed.

I would agree with that concern. I admit to not knowing enough about the nature or possible long term ramifications of his injury, but as far as i know he has not been prone to injury before. Not like TC and Ando who have missed lengthy spells through injury over at least a couple of seasons.

So i would say if we can rule out any long term damage that this injury may have caused, he would definitely be the best quality value signing we could make, who would cover all of our particluar needs.
 
Was he really injured that often last season? I thought he just missed pre-season and then picked up another injury till around November. Missing all of pre season can have a huge effect on a players entire season. See Nasri, Anderson etc
 
Heard plenty of talk that he had a fall out with Mourinho, last season - which restricted his playing time even further.
 
You can add Sneijder to that too. Failure at Madrid means very little when you look at how they merry go round players every single season.

Anyone who watched Sahin for Dortmund knows what he is capable of, regardless of how he has performed for Madrid.

Sneijder played 52 times for Real in two seasons. This kid has hardly kicked a ball and by all accounts didn't look all that good when he did.

Perhaps a great talent, but if clubs have concerns regarding long term fitness it'll put them off. I guess time will tell.
 
So Corriero dello sport rumour is Inter will sell Maicon to MAdrid and take Sahin on loan.
 
They are indeed. I was merely paraphrasing the article, not offering up an opinion.
 
Personally i think Sahin is who we need most out the two anyway.

How ever his injuries over the last season could be a problem. Would love to take him on loan with a view to buy.
 
You look at Robben, Sneijder and VDV and you would think that any injury prone player that Madrid want to flog would be worth a punt based on their performances for the clubs they played for before losing their way at Madrid.
Sahin for the right price would be a great great signing for us if he can stay injury free and its seems realistic that it will happen unlike the Lucas Moura transfer that ust seems like Sao Paulo are using us as a bargaining tool to get more money from the likes of Madrid or Inter where Lucan will probably eventually end up.

In saying all that....Goal.com are about as reliable as caught offside and the daily star so we obviously have no interest in Sahin if only goal.com are reporting it
 
So according to goal.com Sahin would cost £20 million or so, despite coming on the cheap a year ago and not doing anything at Madrid because he's been injured and then not trusted.

As much as I think he's a talented player theres absolutely no chance we're in for him or that Madrid would get that much for him right now.
 
Since I'm basicially a Dortmund fan and secondary a Man Utd fan I can tell you alot about Sahin. Therefor I'll sum up his problems and shortfalls.

About Sahin and his dynamic/agility/whatever you want to call it:

Yes, Sahins dynamic is pretty poor. He is already at this limit, since he recieved special training on Dortmund already due to this. Thats why the only position he can play on the really high level in modern football is the 8 as an deep lying playmaker. Similar to Pirlo.

But thats not much a problem with a proper system and also the position he plays is the most suitable for him. The bigger problem, and thats what I already noticed at the turkish team, is that he needs trust from his team and trainer. In Dortmund he had this. Everyone knew there how good he is and that he can do things no one else could in the team. Every time Dortmund had troubles building up pressure and/or creating chances the ball came to Sahin. In the turkish team he had Emre infront of him who had all the trust and everyone was sceptical about him (after the early hype he had). He didn't recieve alot of balls in his plays (when he even was on his main position - under Hiddink he played once as a left defender for example) and weren't gutsy enough to play his long and at times risky balls.

That completely shut down his biggest strength. He can completely read a game, anticipate movements (in offense as in defense) and find gaps in the opponents team and abuse it with his great passing and technique.

Without trust by his teammates about this ability, he isn't ballsy enough to use this strength. In Dortmund he slowly worked himself up on a octothorpe(=is this the right word?) system with Kehl behind him. This in combniation with his injury (He actually isn't injury prone. He had like 2 injuries in his entire career so far) made him fail completely this season at Madrid.


Now get to the point on how to use him as player on a strategical system.

As I said earlier, he is a deep lying playmaker. So he can play on the 8 with a 6behind/beside him, in a octothorpe system (outdated imo) or in a 3 player center with 2 vertical players infront of him (don't like this though, since this system lacks the link to the only scorer - though it might be valueable on a counter team I guess).

Since the 2nd and 3rd options aren't interesting for Man Utd I come straight to the first and how to play him with Man Utd.

Basicially it would come down to a similar system as current Dortmund is playing.

-------- Vidic - Ferdinand -----
Rafael---------------------Evra
-------------------------------
----Carrick/Fletcher-Sahin------
-------------------------------
Nani-------Rooney-------Young
-----------Welbeck------------


Aside from his rather poor dynamics Sahin is pretty good in defensive work. As I mentioned he got great anticipation, which balance his average physique and poor dynamic.


In offense he will build up our attackings, he can do fast switches at counters and he can greatly bring our wings in position with his passing. Also he can make the difference on very defensive teams due to his game reading.

His excact positioning and movement of course depends on the opponent. He often falls even behind the 6. At Dortmund he was at times the last men on the field. Klopp even said in public that he does that too often. Therefor it would be benefiting having either a strong left and right back (in offense) or a offensive strong centre back.

With strong left&right backs he could fall behind the centre backs to make it 3-6-1 / 3-4-3 (todays systems are fluid anyway) during attacking or he could switch with the offensive strong centre back places to avoid zonal and personal marking.

Another possiblity would be as a classic 8, but with less charge to the front, since he requires to have the field infront of him for his great passing to excel. Since he can do pretty decent long-range shots this is the area he will go the furthest. Since his poor dynamic I would rather seen him not do that too often, since this could mess up the system, since he might not be back in time.

Another possibility might be just switching to Evra position so Evra can go ahead supporting young and Carrick/Fletcher will be alone on the 6.

If the opposing team is in possession of the ball he should be on a line with Carrick/Fletcher. He will anticipate passes in between the gaps while Carrick/Fletcher will take up the more physical duties of defensive work.


The biggest problem in my opinion would be the following: When we would get him and make our system to his requirements to work it could get problematic when he wents missing. I prefer having 2 creative players to be honest. Since we play with classic wingers we kinda need a creative 8 & 10 in my opinion. Either on the 8 or 10 I would like to see a bulky player with some good technique (don't have to be outstanding, but good enough to bring some creativity). Keving-Prince Boateng would be my choice here.


I hope this helped a little.

To sum things up no a pro/con list.


Pro:

- cheap
- outstanding passing and technique
- great tactical understanding and game reading
- good standards & longe range shots
- giving us creativity in midfield


neutral:

- left fooded
- right food is decent, too. though he don't use it often
- could be the next Sneijder/Robben


Con:

- poor dynamics
- requires specific use of his qualities
- can be problematic, if he wents missing since this could mess up the team rhytmic
- don't know how he will do with constant rotation on a team

....
 
I took that to mean he's not very agile. So won't be able to play his way out of trouble perhaps?

Thats exactly what I thought. He is not going to be running up and down the field like Gattuso/tevez/Hargreaves.
 
I'm a bit concerned by the fact he doesnt use the right food often. Dont want him bloating up on fatty foods