Here's the thing though, despite the misgivings I expressed above, I'm pretty sure if it came down to it I'd vote in favour of a UI, heart over-ruling head. Ultimately it may be a once in a lifetime opportunity, I'm not particularly nationalistic but I'd find it extremely hard to face the decision and vote against. Sentiment, emotion and a consciousness of the historical legacy in our hands would lead the south to vote overwhelmingly in favour if given the chance IMO.
Also I'd imagine that in a campaign situation there'll be pretty much nobody significant campaigning against. Who wants to be that guy?
Here's the thing though, despite the misgivings I expressed above, I'm pretty sure if it came down to it I'd vote in favour of a UI, heart over-ruling head. Ultimately it may be a once in a lifetime opportunity, I'm not particularly nationalistic but I'd find it extremely hard to face the decision and vote against. Sentiment, emotion and a consciousness of the historical legacy in our hands would lead the south to vote overwhelmingly in favour if given the chance IMO.
Also I'd imagine that in a campaign situation there'll be pretty much nobody significant campaigning against. Who wants to be that guy?
I recorded the massacre at ballymurphy last week and watched it last night.
Truely sickening and opens the eyes on what was going on in the early days of the troubles.
Hope the families get the justice they deserve when the inquest opens later this year.
I recorded the massacre at ballymurphy last week and watched it last night.
Truely sickening and opens the eyes on what was going on in the early days of the troubles.
Hope the families get the justice they deserve when the inquest opens later this year.
Oh definitely anyone who campaigned against it would probably be negatively viewed the rest of their career.
My group of friends/family in the south isn't a big group so i've no way to really gauge opinion they're about 50/50 on it. Most of those who say they would vote against are basing it on financial grounds which is understandable. But as you say if/when people were actually faced with the decision they might have a change of heart.
Yeah, truely shocking stuff. I honestly don't know very much about the early days but it seems the ira was pretty disorganised at point, although i stand to be corrected on that but Ballymurphy alongside bloody Sunday must have worked better than any recruitment drive by them. The British army alongside internment provided all the ammunition necessary for them to grow into the organisation they become. Maybe over simplifying things here and i probably am but it's hard to draw any other conclsions.Watched it myself last night. Crazy to see it protrayed in such a way.
What really struck me was the daughter of Joan Connolly saying that three different soldiers claimed they shot her mother in the official report of events. Each of them gave different versions, one said he killed her because she had a pistol, one said he killed her because she had a rifle, while the other said he killed her because she was sat behind a machine gun firing away.
Now clearly it cannot be all three.
Seems the army just went in and decided to take pot shots at whoever they fancied shooting that day.
Probably depends on what's on offer? For example if it's clear that a potential UI will involve a lot of concessions to Unionists (say having a monarch as head of state, for example) then some nationalists might say the terms of the particular UI on offer aren't acceptable?
Yeah, truely shocking stuff. I honestly don't know very much about the early days but it seems the ira was pretty disorganised at point, although i stand to be corrected on that but Ballymurphy alongside bloody Sunday must have worked better than any recruitment drive by them. The British army alongside internment provided all the ammunition necessary for them to grow into the organisation they become. Maybe over simplifying things here and i probably am but it's hard to draw any other conclsions.
Would be a real sickener for Republicans if the North voted for a UI and it didn't go through because the South voted no.
Would be a real sickener for Republicans if the North voted for a UI and it didn't go through because the South voted no.
Agree with this.You have to give it to Sinn Fien they have well and truely played the long game and out witted and out manoeuvred the Unionest parties, once they had the GFA and knew that at some point they would have the vote they started working on Dublin to try and get a majority there. All the time Unionists have been split in 3 all of them standing with their finger up their arse, they were played like a tin flute.
You have to give it to Sinn Fien they have well and truely played the long game and out witted and out manoeuvred the Unionest parties, once they had the GFA and knew that at some point they would have the vote they started working on Dublin to try and get a majority there. All the time Unionists have been split in 3 all of them standing with their finger up their arse, they were played like a tin flute.
I agree, but I think you're missing that it's been the long-term plan of the British government for over 30 years. They could never admit it because the Unionists would go bonkers, they've just been letting it sink slowly in to them, and it still is.You have to give it to Sinn Fien they have well and truely played the long game and out witted and out manoeuvred the Unionest parties, once they had the GFA and knew that at some point they would have the vote they started working on Dublin to try and get a majority there. All the time Unionists have been split in 3 all of them standing with their finger up their arse, they were played like a tin flute.
Big time, this is why a referendum here would be strange. Usually in these referendums you are just voting to leave a country/state, like Scotland or Catalonia did. But Northern Ireland would be voting to leave one country and join another. Don't know if something like that has ever happened before.
Cant think of many. While not a direct vote and more of an agrement but broadly similar would be Hong Kong being handed back to the Chinese. In the event of a United Ireland I would imagine a similar type agreement would be negotiated in that certain things stay the same for a transistion period like what HK has until 2047.
For example Northern Irish residents could choose to have British passports for X amount of years and then after that period it would be full reunification. Just a thought on something that could maybe work.
Cant think of many. While not a direct vote and more of an agrement but broadly similar would be Hong Kong being handed back to the Chinese. In the event of a United Ireland I would imagine a similar type agreement would be negotiated in that certain things stay the same for a transistion period like what HK has until 2047.
For example Northern Irish residents could choose to have British passports for X amount of years and then after that period it would be full reunification. Just a thought on something that could maybe work.
I agree, but I think you're missing that it's been the long-term plan of the British government for over 30 years. They could never admit it because the Unionists would go bonkers, they've just been letting it sink slowly in to them, and it still is.
It's also the reason the IRA leaders wanted to turn legitimate, as they would look bleeding stupid and be powerless if a United Ireland came about without them, and not because of them.
I'm sure Britain would be more than happy to pay however it comes about. Hopefully the US would pitch some investment in as well, there is a great deal of sentiment there for Ireland, so it could happen. As said before, I don't think finance is the main obstacle to a united Ireland, it's how to satisfy the loyalists. Although I'll admit I'm not sure how many southern Irish really care anyway, if anyone shed any light on that.I agree they didn’t just want to give us up as then they would more than likely have to pay the South. If London let’s us decide for them selves I doubt they would have to pay any more allowance for us.
I'm sure Britain would be more than happy to pay however it comes about. Hopefully the US would pitch some investment in as well, there is a great deal of sentiment there for Ireland, so it could happen. As said before, I don't think finance is the main obstacle to a united Ireland, it's how to satisfy the loyalists. Although I'll admit I'm not sure how many southern Irish really care anyway, if anyone shed any light on that.
In a United Ireland couldn’t you still be proud to be from Ulster, then Antrim or whatever? There’s plenty of provincial and county pride down south.I think people are forgetting a proportion of NI that are probably only of my generation. I’m not a loyalist per say, although I grew up with the marching season and the Ulster Scots Tradition, that’s not all a to do with hating Republicans. I’m proud to be Northern Irish and what we have become when we got the peace. I don’t really know how I feel about losing that. I do know however the more Loyalist paramility side will not take it laying down, once they loose their funding they will be back and probably a lot more active than they were before, in some families it’s just to ingrained.
They weren't refusing the customer. Just the message.It's a bullshit verdict really. The judges argument is that no one should be made to express an opinion they disagree with but it's surely a reach to argue that the bakers would have been doing so in this case. No one is making them display it front of shop.
They weren't refusing the customer. Just the message.
I don't think the bakers in west Belfast would oblige if I walked in asking for a cake with edible poppies on it to commemorate the war heroes.
Half a million wasted on a court case over a cake.
As likely as a gay fella walking past 30 bakeries to go to the one bakery who's owners are deeply religious and would likely be the only bakery to have a problem with such a message.How likely is that to happen? This will open the door for business owners to be cnuts now.
As likely as a gay fella walking past 30 bakeries to go to the one bakery who's owners are deeply religious and would likely be the only bakery to have a problem with such a message.
It could very easily work the other way with people demanding to have whatever they want on a cake regardless of how offensive it might be to others, by citing this case in particular.
I know and only £188,000 wasted on Ian Ogs nonsense...a bargain
Basically, the bakers are pricks, but they have the right to be pricks and rightfully so. Slippery slope if they had lost.
As likely as a gay fella walking past 30 bakeries to go to the one bakery who's owners are deeply religious and would likely be the only bakery to have a problem with such a message.
It could very easily work the other way with people demanding to have whatever they want on a cake regardless of how offensive it might be to others, by citing this case in particular.
It will be interesting to see if Theresa pushes through with a Brexit deal that leaves NI not aligned with the rest of the UK how red Arlenes red lines will be.
The latest thing I read this morning is that there is a "dual certification" system under proposal where goods produced in NI could circulate freely both in the UK and EU markets. Surely this could only be a good thing for NI, effectively the best of both worlds.
But how far will she push it?
