Northern Ireland Thread

http://www.u.tv/News/NI-must-stand-up-against-racism/2f5a36aa-200c-4197-b4c5-955168f1c910

Alliance MLA Anna Lo has told an anti-racism rally in Belfast that Northern Ireland must stand up against sectarianism and racism.

She addressed a crowd of over 4,000 people outside Belfast City Hall on Saturday afternoon, days after she announced that she plans to quit Northern Ireland politics because she is "fed up with tribal politics".

The South Belfast MLA does not intend to stand for re-election in 2016.

Ms Lo, who has lived in Northern Ireland for 40 years, had said she was thinking about leaving the region because she doesn't feel safe amid a recent upsurge of hate attacks - including attacks on her personally.

At the rally on Saturday, the politician received a rapturous applause from a crowd chanting her name.

"I am so pleased and so touched to see so many of you come out - not just in support of me obviously - but in support of all our ethnic minorities here in Northern Ireland."

She told the crowd: "I'm not going to go away."

Ms Lo told the crowd that she had been inundated with messages of support.

"My office and home now are just like a florist's shop," she said.

"It's not about me - it's about all of us - we must stand up - stand up against sectarianism and racism."

She said that ethnic minorities needed to feel safe in their homes and feel safe walking down the street.

Meanwhile, one of the speakers at the rally has called for the First Minister to make a public apology over recent comments he made about the Islamic faith.

Mohammed Samaana has worked as a staff nurse at the Ulster Hospital for over a decade. A member of the Muslim community, he has been the victim of racist attacks in Northern Ireland.

Ahead of the rally, he told UTV that the Peter Robinson should apologise publicly for recent controversial comments he made about Muslims.

The DUP leader's comments appeared to defend controversial evangelical pastor James McConnell, whose sermon about Islam is being investigated by police. Mr Robinson has previously insisted his remarks were "misinterpreted and given a meaning that was never intended".

He met with NI's Muslim leaders earlier this week at Stormont Castle, where he apologised in private.

Mr Samaana said the apology should not have been behind closed doors and he is angry that the First Minister has not apologised to all Muslims.

"I heard the insult - but I haven't heard the apology. I heard that he apologised before three men behind closed doors - that's not an apology, " he said.

He wants a public apology and for Peter Robinson to condemn the recent negative comments made by Pastor McConnell.

The pastor likened "cells" of Muslims in Britain to the IRA as he addressed a congregation at Whitewell Metropolitan Tabernacle in north Belfast last Sunday.

He branded Islam a "heathen" doctrine and said it was "satanic" and "spawned in hell".

Mr Samaana said that Pastor McConnell needs to come out and condemn racists and racist attacks.

As well as members of the Muslim community, people from South Africa and Poland were among those who addressed the Belfast crowd.

The in-coming Lord Mayor of Belfast Nicola Mallon also spoke and promised to represent everyone in Northern Ireland during her time in office.

Aisling Gallagher, one of the rally's planners, said that the event was organised at the last minute on Thursday afternoon because "something needed to be done."

"There are so many people here who won't stand for this, and will speak up and support the ethnic minorities who are undergoing this persecution - even when our politicians won't."

A smaller anti-racism rally was also held in Derry on Saturday.

 
Badunk said:
Not exactly fitting in with the 'terrorism' title of the thread, but since this is the de facto Norn Iron thread, great to see the huge anti-racism rally in Belfast today. People from all walks of life attended and the usual handful of fleggers stood and shouted "send them all home" to the crowd. Thousands upon thousands of people turn up at very short notice, yet the fleggers can only get half a dozen despite having been going at it for 18 months.

WE are the people nai!
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Yeah I was at it, it was a great turnout and good weather for it.
 
Wonder if he'll be remembered more for his positive influence in recent years or for his extremely negative influence for decades before then?

It was certainly a remarkable and unpredictable career, as demonstrated by the fact that Martin McGuiness has just said he has lost a friend. Who would have predicted that 15 years ago?
 
sullydnl said:
Wonder if he'll be remembered more for his positive influence in recent years or for his extremely negative influence for decades before then?

It was certainly a remarkable and unpredictable career, as demonstrated by the fact that Martin McGuiness has just said he has lost a friend. Who would have predicted that 15 years ago?
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People tend to remember the negative.
 
sullydnl said:
Wonder if he'll be remembered more for his positive influence in recent years or for his extremely negative influence for decades before then?

It was certainly a remarkable and unpredictable career, as demonstrated by the fact that Martin McGuiness has just said he has lost a friend. Who would have predicted that 15 years ago?
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I think many will remember the negatives and think "good riddance" but if it were not for the likes of him and Martin McGuiness being able to see past the history, and develop a genuine respect for each other, who knows where the 'peace process' would have ended up?
 
golden_blunder said:
I think many will remember the negatives and think "good riddance" but if it were not for the likes of him and Martin McGuiness being able to see past the history, and develop a genuine respect for each other, who knows where the 'peace process' would have ended up?
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There wouldn't have been one, it's that simple. Yes he shouted hate and was an arsehole, but in truth every politician is, no matter what side you vote on.
 
He'll be remebered for his role in the peace process aswell as his role in our violent history, some will remember both some won't, quite a polarising figure. I'm just glad people like him Martin McGuinness & Gerry Adams were able to put the past behind and work towards a better future rather than what they were getting up to in the 60's, 70's & 80's.
 
Getsme said:
There wouldn't have been one, it's that simple. Yes he shouted hate and was an arsehole, but in truth every politician is, no matter what side you vote on.
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Not quite as simple as "there would be no peace process without him" though, is it? Opposition to the civil rights movement, opposition to the Belfast agreement, opposition to Sunningdale and opposition to the peace process in general until very, very, very late in the day.

I'd love to know how much he actually delayed peace before he ultimately signed up to it.

He obviously does deserve credit for the way his views transformed in later years. It's pointless to pretend his legacy isn't extremely mixed though.
 
Getsme said:
There wouldn't have been one, it's that simple. Yes he shouted hate and was an arsehole, but in truth every politician is, no matter what side you vote on.
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Disagree. The peace process was moving on without him and the DUP. They jumped on later down the road when they realised it was going to happen with or without them.

As someone has said he deserves credit for his role in later years, but he certainly was not the architect of the peace process and cant take much credit for that.
 
sullydnl said:
Not quite as simple as "there would be no peace process without him" though, is it? Opposition to the civil rights movement, opposition to the Belfast agreement, opposition to Sunningdale and opposition to the peace process in general until very, very, very late in the day.

I'd love to know how much he actually delayed peace before he ultimately signed up to it.

He obviously does deserve credit for the way his views transformed in later years. It's pointless to pretend his legacy isn't extremely mixed though.
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No ones pretending as far as I can see, yes at the start of the process he was against it, his party was against it and a large percentage of Northern Ireland was against it, Protestant and Catholic. He was a hated man, but a man that held a lot of power.
However he risked everything by shaking hands with Sinn Fein , he has to be applauded for that. Every politician in my eyes are pricks, I hate them, but I have to respect that without the two sides coming together and forging a relationship for the better good, then Northern Ireland would be in a worse place than it is today. Yes we may still have had peace, but would it be as strong as it is at the moment? To me, that handshake was the start of the real peace process, it symbolised that the Country had got over it's biggest hurdle.
The problem with Northern Ireland is people tend to focus on the past instead of looking to the future, we should be proud of what the country has achieved, we should be proud to call it home and we should be proud of every politician that helped us get there.
 
The man was a despicable human being, one of the main obstacles to peace in the North. Sickens me to see the praise he's getting in death.
 
I totally agree. Not alone in being a scumbag in NI but I for one won't mourn his passing.
 
He was 88 and lived a full enough life, so I won't feel sad for him. I used to despise him, but if it's true that he mellowed and revised his earlier beliefs, then credit where it's due. And if Martin McGuinness came to call him a friend (I find that so hard to comprehend), then I guess I can say RIP.
 
He was a bigoted, arrogant man whose hate filled rallies lead to the death of many nationalists. He turned down Sunningdale, said No to the Anglo-Irish agreement both stalled the process, yet he's being lauded as a "peacemaker"?
 
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Lynk said:
He was a bigoted, arrogant man whose hate filled rallies lead to the death of many nationalists. He turned down Sunningdale, said No to the Anglo-Irish agreement both stalled the process, yet he's being lauded as a "peacemaker"?
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Much like Adams and McGuinness will be.
 
Lynk said:
He was a bigoted, arrogant man whose hate filled rallies lead to the death of many nationalists. He turned down Sunningdale, said No to the Anglo-Irish agreement both stalled the process, yet he's being lauded as a "peacemaker"?
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You could say the exact same for Adams, McGuinness and the rest of their mates.
 
Lynk said:
"Red Of Ulster" in defending Paisley shocker.
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I am not defending Paisley what so ever, and never lump me in with him or his party.

I am just stating a fact, that there are people on the nationalist side who clearly cause a lot of hurt to young nationalist who were easily influenced.
 
Reds-of-Ulster said:
I am not defending Paisley what so ever, and never lump me in with him or his party.

I am just stating a fact, that there are people on the nationalist side who clearly cause a lot of hurt to young nationalist who were easily influenced.
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No doubt, but Paisley is the one in the limelight because of his death.
 
Paisley was a horrid biggot. Only jumped on the peace process bandwagon when he saw it was going to go ahead with or without him. Pulled the previous attempts down himself.

McGuinness and Adams are no better. Too many people with their own agendas slowed down the peace process in the North and it was the general public who suffered longest.

No time for Paisley or those who hail him as a peacemaker. I'd feel for his family who have lost a loved one, but that's the height of it. Glad they're having a private funeral and not a state one. Would cause more trouble than it's worth.
 
Getsme said:
Much like Adams and McGuinness will be.
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Hume, Adams & McGuinness started the peace-process back in the 70's.

Paisley agreed to pretty much the same deal on the table in the 70's, that he agreed to 7 years ago. Do you not find that sickening?

Over 2500 lives or more, could have been saved if he'd not been the anti-Catholic / bigotted fascist he was. He was the biggest recruiter for Republican Paramailitaries & the biggest recruiter of Loyalist Paramilitaries. Everyone knows this - do you?

He was buyin his way into Heaven agreeing to share power with those disgusting Nationalists. Not so sure thats worked out well for him to be honest.

Hope it has in fairness, but its a shame it took a brush with death, for him to wake up to the reality of his life of persecution of another sect of people, when things could have been so very different. If only he was the white Martin Luther King!

In saying that, better late than never, never, never.... never :smirk:
 
golden_blunder said:
I think many will remember the negatives and think "good riddance" but if it were not for the likes of him and Martin McGuiness being able to see past the history, and develop a genuine respect for each other, who knows where the 'peace process' would have ended up?
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Totally agree with that GB, but Robinson is not Paisley. Paisley was forced out of the leadership of the DUP (the party he created) for his friendship with McGuinness. Robinson seems hellbent in not coming across as being friendly with him whatsoever, at this time.

Of course they have their differences - but thats life. Its a marriage in many ways. I hope they get things sorted & that the old school Unionists dont take advantage of the now lost influence that Big Ian had with the peace-process, and bring it to a halt.

Its a sickening truth, that out of all the politicians that have come out & said, how they'd lost a friend - it was only Big Ian's arch-enemy McGuinness. Even Adams said he always treated him with respect & he'd miss him. Didnt hear the love from Unionism, it was disgraceful.

Unionism turned his back on Ian (same as the church he founded) because he acknowledged he was wrong & wanted to make things right. He ran out of excuses not to for Christ sake. No more IRA, no IRA guns - yet the Loyalists still are running amuck all over Norn Iron with theirs.

As much as i hated Ian & still resent him, seeing him & Martin having the craic was a real shining light to those who doubt that opposites can be friends.

Welcome to the real world though. Most Protestants & Catholics have been friends & best friends all throughout the Troubles, but their friendship was completely out of the blue i have to say. Very iconic in the history of Ireland - same as Paisley & Bertie Ahern too..

Wish all of that, had of happened 30 odd years ago..
 
Ramshock said:
Hello Neviller mk2. Nothing like a refreshing dose of "themmuns" is there?
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Seen you post many a time before... You are clearly anti Unionist and going through your posting history in this thread you seem to love to get a dig in at anytime.

Paisley drew in a lot of people, but I wouldn't say he was the biggest recruiter of the Republican's or Loyalist Paramilitaries, Thatcher for the Republicans and the amount of random bombings in Unionist and Loyalist areas was probably the key to a massive surge in UDA and UVF membership. Thousands of young men from working class backgrounds signed up because it was 'the thing to do' in the 70's and 80's. There are bigots on both sides, especially in the two main parties of the current executive.

Red Hand are you high? No more IRA? Seriously? Everyone knows all these 'New IRA's' are just the old members who were fecked over by Marty and Gerry, took the old guns before decommissioning and went back to what they knew best.
 
Reds-of-Ulster said:
Seen you post many a time before... You are clearly anti Unionist and going through your posting history in this thread you seem to love to get a dig in at anytime.

Paisley drew in a lot of people, but I wouldn't say he was the biggest recruiter of the Republican's or Loyalist Paramilitaries, Thatcher for the Republicans and the amount of random bombings in Unionist and Loyalist areas was probably the key to a massive surge in UDA and UVF membership. Thousands of young men from working class backgrounds signed up because it was 'the thing to do' in the 70's and 80's. There are bigots on both sides, especially in the two main parties of the current executive.

Red Hand are you high? No more IRA? Seriously? Everyone knows all these 'New IRA's' are just the old members who were fecked over by Marty and Gerry, took the old guns before decommissioning and went back to what they knew best.
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David Irvine agreed with all that i said. He said it many times man - especially about Paisley. He even alluded to him being present at swearing ins. Its documented in Peter Taylors' series "Loyalists". Its on youtube!

As regards to me being high. No i'm not!

The scumbags that are keeping the whole republican "conflict" goin now, are about 200 in active numbers - if even that. Thats what the PSNI & British intelligence have said dude. You cant shite on about the RA being active, when they are not. You are f*cking deluded if you think that same anti-peace-process Unionist jargon.

Loyalists are still running around terrorising their own people (as usual) - do you have a problem with that? Is that fine with you & what are the cops doing about that??

I've no problem with your opinion, i actually welcome it. You're from a different mindset - same as me. Its great we can chat about how we see things, even though they may differ greatly.

End of the day, i dont know you, or have read all your posts on this subject, but atleast you're talking about it - something your political representatives should have been doing 40 years ago ffs man.

How do you feel about all that?
 
Red Hand Devil said:
David Irvine agreed with all that i said. He said it many times man - especially about Paisley. He even alluded to him being present at swearing ins. Its documented in Peter Taylors' series "Loyalists". Its on youtube!

As regards to me being high. No i'm not!

The scumbags that are keeping the whole republican "conflict" goin now, are about 200 in active numbers - if even that. Thats what the PSNI & British intelligence have said dude. You cant shite on about the RA being active, when they are not. You are f*cking deluded if you think that same anti-peace-process Unionist jargon.

Loyalists are still running around terrorising their own people (as usual) - do you have a problem with that? Is that fine with you & what are the cops doing about that??

I've no problem with your opinion, i actually welcome it. You're from a different mindset - same as me. Its great we can chat about how we see things, even though they may differ greatly.

End of the day, i dont know you, or have read all your posts on this subject, but atleast you're talking about it - something your political representatives should have been doing 40 years ago ffs man.

How do you feel about all that?
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The part in bold, I wasn't talking about you at the start of my previous post if you are perhaps referring to that?

Anyway, you can't deny that there is still an active Republican Movement, with the RIRA/IRA as they call themselves, the CIRA and ONH, and other smaller independent Republican groups. I'd imagine the combined numbers are under 1,000, with a couple of hundred being 'active' but it is still present. If you don't think Gerry and Marty don't know who those people are then you are deluded. The fact is due to the Irish Republican movement through out the 70's, 80's and 90's these people have, in their view, seen the use of violence as a legitimate method of trying to achieve their goals. The PIRA, and Marty and Gerry effectively legitimised the used of violence in the eyes of radical Irish Republicans, much like the UDA and UVF for Loyalists. Even when looking at political support for dissident Republicanism you just have to see the support Eirgi got in the Council Elections, and the fact that a know Dissident Republican supporter was elected in Derry.

If you believe there isn't an active level of Irish Republican thought through working class lads then you are mistaken. It isn't uncommon for people from those backgrounds to be drawn into paramilitaries, they mightn't join them but they'd probably express support for them and seem them as their own, and it is the same on the Loyalist side as well. It wouldn't be uncommon for people to 'support' which ever group which has 'control' over their estate simply because that is how they grew up. Now, don't think I am saying all, or even most people follow this path, of course not but there is defiantly the view that paramilitaries are acceptable to some within both sections of the community.

And of course there is a problem with Loyalist running about terrorising their own people, but are you trying to say Republicans aren't doing the same? It seems every week there is seemingly another story from West Belfast of a man shot in a 'Punishment style attack' the fact is the Police are simply unable to crack down on Loyalist and Republican estates, but that is similar in places like Manchester, London, Liverpool, Glasgow and other large UK cities, albeit there isn't necessarily the element of a religious divide. The fact is these paramilitary groups are here to stay for a long time sadly, mainly because they have established their self as a group who are more concerned about dealing drugs and making money. If you try and paint a picture that it doesn't also happen in the Republican estates then you need to realise it does.

The fact is, there are certain policies which Stormont could, and should introduce to help break down the sectarian barriers, but the fact is the two main parties rely on these barriers to remain or else they are out of a job.
 
I like hearing your story on this. I understand it, just always baffles me that there's no acceptance on being the aggressor!

I've heard (personally) everything there is to know from others a thousand times. Many of which, i used to party with during the club scene in Norn Iron. Did all the clubs & after party's too. Circus, Kelly's, Hellraiser.. to name but a few were the session. Partied at house parties in die-hard Loyalist areas all over the North too. We didnt care a shite about religion. We just asked names & are you up for a session?! Thats my Norn Iron growing up!

Ramshock isnt anti-Unionist - far f*cking from it. He's against Unionist hate politics - just like the good people of Northern Ireland.

We've been sick of hearing all the hate & scare-mongering that Nationalists are the enemy & to fear & bury them. All we wanted was equality. The violence of Loyalists & the "Establishment" (B-Specials, UDR, RUC & the collusion with Loyalist Paramilitaries) was enforced on Nationalists in every corner of Northern Ireland. I lost family members through the unionist "bricking/petrol bombing the taigs out of their homes" campaign.

Our Civil-Rights parades mostly turned into beatings by the "establishment". How does that differ from what we've witnessed during the protests; in 60's America or South Africa?

You seem to justify all the shit of the past, by just coming out with - "they're all as bad as each other.." crap!

I dont justify violence of any kind & never will. If people with influence can calm a situation, then they should just do that. Its without question they should do that.

What is peace to Unionist's though?

What is peace to Nationalists?

Pretty simple to the on-looker - if you take a step back:

Nationalists want total equality, respect for their culture & the right to be regarded as Irish. Also, and most importantly, they want a fair say in the day-day running of Northern Ireland for all its people - including the Chinese, Asian, Muslim, Jewish community's etc. too. No exclusions. Thats our peace definition!

Unionist's peace definition; is to retain the majority rule over Northern Ireland & keep Nationalism & every other "minority" under the rule of Unionism. Ultimately, not losing any equality balance in the North & to control all aspects of religions, colours & beliefs.

They still have the mindset of "not giving an inch" policy. That policy is outdated & wrong.

Unionism = Apartheid!
 
From his previous post's I have read he loves to get a dig in at both Unionists and Loyalists, but if you do the same about Republicans then you end up being the bad guy stuck in the past.

Anyway, so you are basically saying all Unionists hate Catholics and Unionism is wants to establish a majority rule that Nationalists have no say in? Well that is simply wrong, you are basing that of the politics of some Unionists. On that basis I could look at the activities of SF/IRA and simply say all Republicans want every Protestant/Unionist out of the Island of Ireland due to their sectarian nature throughout the troubles. But that simply isn't true. And you say about ethnic minorities, you mention the Jewish community, a community which in recent weeks as been attack in Nationalist Areas, is that to say all Nationalists are Anti-Semitic? Of course not, but it clearly shows that those people who preform those acts are vile bigots.

Peace to Unionists is a fair Northern Ireland where both communities are given respect, but to many people on the Loyalist side of things due to recent events they believe that there is more concessions on the Unionist/Loyalist side that there is from the Nationalist/Republican side.

One of the policies most needed in Northern Ireland is a full integration of Education, the US did it after their Civil Rights movement regarding the Black communities, so why has there not been an integration of Catholic and State schools yet? Because 1 The Catholic Church opposes it, recently they threaten to shut down a school wishing to become "Integrated" and 2, Republicans have nothing to gain from 'normalisation' of every day life within Northern Ireland as it would lead to the breaking down of barriers and make more people from a Nationalist background and those from a Unionist background have a greater interaction with each other. It would also lead to a greater acceptance of Northern Ireland from those coming from a Nationalist background. Yet again something SF wants to prevent.

Also, I am not sure where I justified anything that happened in the past? But are you saying the tactics used by the security forces, not Loyalists, is worse than those used by the IRA? I can't believe you think that. There were times that the security forces were in the wrong, and went about things in the wrong way, but both the Republican and Loyalist paramilitaries were always in the wrong with the tactics they used. Planting a bomb in a shop or in a bin in a busy street, or bursting into a bar and firing indiscriminately are extremely vile things to do, and all too a common occurrence by both those groups.
 
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Reds-of-Ulster said:
Seen you post many a time before... You are clearly anti Unionist and going through your posting history in this thread you seem to love to get a dig in at anytime.

Paisley drew in a lot of people, but I wouldn't say he was the biggest recruiter of the Republican's or Loyalist Paramilitaries, Thatcher for the Republicans and the amount of random bombings in Unionist and Loyalist areas was probably the key to a massive surge in UDA and UVF membership. Thousands of young men from working class backgrounds signed up because it was 'the thing to do' in the 70's and 80's. There are bigots on both sides, especially in the two main parties of the current executive.

Red Hand are you high? No more IRA? Seriously? Everyone knows all these 'New IRA's' are just the old members who were fecked over by Marty and Gerry, took the old guns before decommissioning and went back to what they knew best.
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chuckle
 
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Do you know what the biggest problem is? To many people don't want to move on, to many still want to play the blame game and try to come out on top. How can you have a future if you can't let go of the past, it's fecking sickening to watch.
The most annoying thing is, many who comment on it never lived through it.
Edit @Ramshock what are you trying to get at with the above post?
 
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