So, direct rule then after yesterday?
Northern Ireland Thread
- Thread starter Gaz.
- Start date
Bit random but I'm loving the Blindboy podcast and the most recent one features a great interview with a really smart bloke who does walking tours of the "interface" areas of Belfast. He's got some great insights into the day to day realities of living in sectarian Northern Ireland. Well worth a listen.
Arlene Foster is drunk off the power that Theresa May has defaulted to her by being a wholly unfit British Prime Minister.
Irish government should hit back and say no more passports for people north of the border unless the applicants parents held one. Then enforce the hard border and stop them coming south to work. Thatll put a spanner in their sash.
The South has bent over backwards to accomodate them for far too long, and the British government have a responsibility to every British citizen to ensure the good friday agreement is carried through. The DUP shouldnt even be an option for a coalition in Westminster.
Irish government should hit back and say no more passports for people north of the border unless the applicants parents held one. Then enforce the hard border and stop them coming south to work. Thatll put a spanner in their sash.
The South has bent over backwards to accomodate them for far too long, and the British government have a responsibility to every British citizen to ensure the good friday agreement is carried through. The DUP shouldnt even be an option for a coalition in Westminster.
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Dont think the GFA would allow that.
Seems there was an agreement on the language act and in return SF would drop their demand for Arlene to step aside (even if temporarily) but the Senior members of the DUP kicked it back. Stinks of a "not an inch" mentality. Pathetic really.
The DUP also wont give a flying feck about Direct Rule coming in as they can effectively veto any legislation in regards to NI that they dont like (i.e gay marriage and abortion laws).
Its exactly what they have wanted since they realised what the implications of the GFA actually were.
A return to direct rule essentially means that the GFA is dead, whether people want to believe that or not, so feck them. Brexit is more important and thats from a DUP that campaigned for remain.
The suggestion/rumor is that the deal was all but agreed where there would be seperate "stand alone" language acts for both Irish and Ulster Scots but when the DUP negotiating team brought that back to the party it was rejected. It's unsurprising considering Foster has been whipping up fear within their base about an ILA with strawman arguements like employment quotas for Irish speakers which was never even part of the discussions aparently. I'm by no means a Shinner but they're absolutely right in my opinion to hold their ground of this one.
Sinn Fein?
Yes
I agree. The idea that the DUP would reject a language act so people in their own country could have official status for the language they percieve as their own is so backward it beggars belief. Where else in the world would it happen only N.I.
I wonder if the Irish and British government are seeing this as a crisis.
http://www.mydup.com/news/article/statement-by-dup-leader-arlene-foster-mla
http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-language-act-explainer-3851417-Feb2018/
Right to be educated in your own language...
http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-language-act-explainer-3851417-Feb2018/
Right to be educated in your own language...
It merely belies the fact that Ulster Scots was only ever a political stick for the DUP to beat back language equality. I just hope that people within their constituencies who do value Ulster Scots as an important part of their heritage can see through their posturing. Ironically it's exactly what the DUP have been accusing Sinn Fein of doing with the Irish language for years.
If they want it too then they should have it. I wouldnt imagine many Irish people would be backward enough to try and stop it.
I wouldnt imagine there would be a single voice opposing it.
It all just stinks of not an inch mentality to me as I mentioned above. The DUP would actually prefer to bring the whole thing down rather than have to compromise to deliver an ILA.
Think this from one of the guys at Slugger O'Toole sums it up pretty well.
And the fact that many/most in the DUP would consider those as "concessions" is at the root of the problem here.
And the fact that many/most in the DUP would consider those as "concessions" is at the root of the problem here.
Thanks for that, Pogue.
Glad you like it! A lot of the content/humour is very Irish so may not translate well but it's an excellent series of podcasts. I thought the guest on this episode was terrific. Kind of tempted to go on one of his tours.
Why the Sinn Fein DUP deal crashed
Fact: an ‘accommodation,’ ‘deal’ had been reached on Friday night between the DUP and Sinn Fein.
The British and Irish governments genuinely believed a structure had been worked out by Sinn Fein and the DUP as a basis for the restoration of an Executive and Assembly.
The key DUP/Sinn Fein negotiators I am advised, had moved beyond discussion on the ‘accommodation’ and were at that stage addressing details about the restoration of an Executive and Assembly.
Draft legislation had already been in place to facilitate three bills aimed at realising three Acts which would embrace a free standing Irish Language Act, a free standing Ulster Scots Act and a Cultural Act which would reflect DUP concerns about what they see as their ‘Britishness.’ All these acts would be ‘freestanding’ or independent of each other.
A key non party insider familiar with the workings of government bills and acts told this website “an Act can reference another Act without impacting on that act.” Each Act, in other words, would protect its own integrity.
Both talks participants made it clear they would have to brief and seek the approval of their bases.
In terms of the DUP negotiating team – that involved six members including Simon Hamilton who along with Gregory Campbell have been dancing upon a pin head about Sinn Féin’s declaration of an ‘accommodation’ having been reached.
My insider is categoric that an ‘accord’ ‘accommodation’ had been achieved by Friday night. Furthermore the governments marvelled at the intensity and genuineness of the commitment of the respective party negotiating representatives.
I’ve been probing the DUP to try to establish what prompted Arlene Foster to make the dramatic announcement on Wednesday that the Talks had collapsed.
I am told DUP MLAs were jumped by the announcement that PMs Theresa May and Leo Varadkar were arriving in Northern Ireland on Monday.
Secondly, Unionists were said to be startled by news headlines awash with speculation about a deal including a free standing Irish Language Act.
DUP and unionist constituents now believed a deal had been done over their heads and an avalanche of concern enveloped DUP MLAs and MPS with reports of Unionists who ‘loaned’ their votes to DUP members in the last election being told, not to appear at their doors should they agree to a free standing Irish Language Act.
Arlene Foster referred to the presence of the PMs as a “distraction.” She had in mind the reaction and fears among her constituents that a deal was being sealed above their heads.
A government insider told me it is inconceivable that the PM was coming to Stormont without knowing that there was a basis for an agreement.
The tsunami of Unionist grassroots’ reaction to the arrival of the PMs and reports of a free standing Irish Language Act stirred the horses.
Such was the shock reaction inside the DUP’s six strong team to grassroots concerns that the negotiators and the party’s ten strong Officers’ group did not reveal the contents of the ‘accommodation’ to their Assembly members on Monday morning. That information was withheld – not shared.
Journalists ought to listen carefully and read between the lines of what Simon Hamilton and Gregory Campbell have been saying. They have direct access to what was going on at the talks table.
Sinn Fein spokespersons like Conor Murphy and Michelle O Neill are unambiguous about the package that was on the table.
My Stormont insider who has had a bird’s eye view of processes at work down the years is unambiguous about the shape of the final package that was on the table.
The Unionist people have shown their politicians their teeth.
Well the language act was agreed in the GFA. Only the DUP were not part of that agreement. In the long run this is not helping the Unionist case in Westminster, I would suspect. Foster would sign up to it in a heartbeat but after she agreed it, the hardliners in the party kicked up and she had to pull the plug.
EDIT. Oh, just seen the previous post. Yep reliable journos here saying it was a done dealio.
Also can I request the OP to change the thread title please; just to Northern Ireland thread or whatever. Terrorism plays a small part unfortunately still but only a small part.
Seconded!
The humour is great and the accents too, I somehow understand it. But I have to say that the exchange was confusing and enlightening at the same time, it opened more questions than answers, Donzo said it numerous times when you look under the surface things are more nuanced and complicated.
I listened to it too, thanks.
Yes please
I would love to see Westminster implement as much if the GFA from Westminster if need be. I dont know if thats possible without an executive, but it would really put the wind up them. If Westminster enacted the the language acts and culture acts from Westminster then there would be nothing to hold back the executive coming together amd it would be a clear sign that Westminster is commited to peace in N.I.
Cool. It’s a deadly podcast. The other episodes are very different though. One man’s stream of consciousness. Well worth a listen too. Start at the beginning.
The Orange Order pulled rank on the DUP and no deal. Thats what we deal with living here.
DUP advocating a return to direct rule, which is obviously not possible under the GFA.
Northern Ireland is politically fecked.
Not only that but they are taking the NI out of a position where it would hit a financial jackpot due its unique circumstances.
NI is a stalemate. As long as the current form of power-sharing remains, nothing significant will ever be achieved. The flipside is that there isn't any other model available except repatriation which would lead to mass conflict.
Majority rule will never happen as the nationalist demographic has been edging away at the unionist demographic since the 1930s and is now either level or ahead, but will definitely pass it within a generation. No amount of gerrymandering will allow the unionists to retain a political union with the UK if majority rule were ever reintroduced.
So NI is a political holding tank for two people with different nationalist ideologies. The merits of consociational government are that it retains peace and promotes inter-communal cooperation (in theory), but its downfall is that it never moves beyond what it is. And what it is is inherently unstable.
The language issue was part of the GFA and received state funding, ratified by unionists. The issue here seems to have very little to do with a language act to me.
It's a ruse.
That would be catastrophic and isn't something either Ireland, NI, or the UK wants.
Why would the DUP agree to such a deal when they can rule from Westminster through their puppet May?
Let's see what happens when / if Labour gets into power..
Let's see what happens when / if Labour gets into power..
What the hell? This has to be some sort of joke?
Jamie fecking Bryson. 
Why an Irish language act? Irish is an official language of the European parliament. One of my best mates works there as a translator. We have Irish radio and TV, in which everything from experimental rock music to soap operas and cartoons are aired. Poets and short story writers as Gaeilge have bestowed us a rich legacy. Nuala Ní Dhomhnaill; Micheal Davitt, Liam Ó Muirthile; Gabriel Rosenstock; Cathal Ó Searcaigh; Louis de Paor; Biddy Jenkinson; Aine Ní Ghlinn; Gearóid Mac Lochlainn. Pádraic Ó Conaire; Joe Steve Ó Neachtain; Pádraig Breathnach; Seán Mac Mathúna; An Seabach; Mairtín Ó Direan; Micheál Ó Conghaile; Antaine Ó Flaithearta.
Driving in Scotland and being able to read the Gaelic signs (understanding the spoken language there is a little more difficult!). The Irish language is a repository of a very particular, very integrated way of looking at the world. When an English speaker says "what about..." something, an Irish speaker says "Cad mar geall air...", literally, "what promise resides" in it. We have the same words (brú) for pregnant, fortress, and for pressure. I have met Americans and Japanese and Czech people who spoke better Irish than myself. The language, like other aspects of our ancient heritage, is a treasure. In 2014 Mr Gregory Campbell of the DUP stood up in the Stormont chamber and tried to mock the Irish language (and those who spoke it in the hallowed halls of Stormont). He substituted the Irish expression, “go raibh maith agat, a Ceann Comhairle” ("Thank you, Mr Speaker" or more precisely, "may good be to you"), with the words “curry my yoghurt can coca coal yard". Mr Campbell only succeeded in demonstrating to the world the uncultured, mean, ugly, small-minded and bitter man he is.
Driving in Scotland and being able to read the Gaelic signs (understanding the spoken language there is a little more difficult!). The Irish language is a repository of a very particular, very integrated way of looking at the world. When an English speaker says "what about..." something, an Irish speaker says "Cad mar geall air...", literally, "what promise resides" in it. We have the same words (brú) for pregnant, fortress, and for pressure. I have met Americans and Japanese and Czech people who spoke better Irish than myself. The language, like other aspects of our ancient heritage, is a treasure. In 2014 Mr Gregory Campbell of the DUP stood up in the Stormont chamber and tried to mock the Irish language (and those who spoke it in the hallowed halls of Stormont). He substituted the Irish expression, “go raibh maith agat, a Ceann Comhairle” ("Thank you, Mr Speaker" or more precisely, "may good be to you"), with the words “curry my yoghurt can coca coal yard". Mr Campbell only succeeded in demonstrating to the world the uncultured, mean, ugly, small-minded and bitter man he is.
What the hell? This has to be some sort of joke?
I would laugh if I didnt want to cry
The hypocriscy of this woman just amazes me.
Considering the mayhem this idiot caused Alliance during the flag protests I think this is fair enough.