Even if he's found guilty is there a judge brave enough to put him away?
Northern Ireland Thread
- Thread starter Gaz.
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I certainly hope so.
If found guilty I doubt they'd have much choice. The chances of them having enough evidence at the moment are slim I would guess though. Certainly no chance of Adams confessing to anything.
The Telegraph just reporting now that Evelyn Gilroy and Peter Rodgers, the senior republicans who've made quite public allegations about Adams recently, are refusing to give statements to the police. The PSNI are apparently in court asking for an extension at the minute, presumably in the hope that someone will come forward and go on the record. Despite McGuinness claiming that the arrest is politically motivated I would suspect that the Shinners could well get a bounce from this whole affair in the upcoming elections (as absurd as that sounds), especially if Adams gets released without charge.
Police have been granted another 48 hours to question him.
Had a few family discoveries today, my mum's side definitely has a murky history, a couple of IRA members deceased in there. That's me ruled out of working for MI5
You can tell the PSNI(RUC) have been waiting for this for a long time
There's no realistic chance of Adams being arraigned. I don't know what the RUC think they're doing apart from stirring shit.
How come the recordings aren't admissible in court?
The guy's dead, so he can't give evidence or be cross-examined. He's an ex-IRA Sein Fein/peace process=surrender merchant so he's just as likely to be smearing 'sell-out' Adams as telling the truth.
Not sure if they are admissible or not but the tapes on their own are pretty worthless in a court. It is simply one mans word against another, with one of the men now being dead! There is no proof and while it looks bad for Adams this is really not adding up to much more than hearsay at the end so the day.
Unless he confesses or there is some real proof produced after 42 years, not much is going to happen here.
Unless he confesses or there is some real proof produced after 42 years, not much is going to happen here.
What's Enda doing in all this? Adams is an elected official of the Irish state; Ireland should be doing something to work on his release. If Ireland arrested a British politican because it became apparent he was complicit in the deaths of republicans during the Troubles, Cameron would be screaming bloody murder. He'd probably be massing troops on the border already. Double standards ahoy!
Hadn't thought of that, excellent point.
I think it's a point that largely ignores the history of N.I and in particular the history of some SF party members.
I don't think the standard is the same.
The fact that no one thinks its worthy of comment or outrage is just indicative of the mire of shite that is N.I politics and the desperate need for new, more legitimate faces.
I don't think the standard is the same.
The fact that no one thinks its worthy of comment or outrage is just indicative of the mire of shite that is N.I politics and the desperate need for new, more legitimate faces.
Enda can't stand Adams, or any other Shinner in fact.
Most of this is based on our own opinion and assumptions now on what evidence they may or may not have.
But regardless of race, religion, age, size....no man should be immune to the letter of the law just because he is a politician or just because he has elections coming up.
But regardless of race, religion, age, size....no man should be immune to the letter of the law just because he is a politician or just because he has elections coming up.
The fact that they've still not charged him with anything, and keep having to apply for extensions, means they have nothing on him and were chancing their arm. Farcical by the PSNI.
I think its probably more the remnants of the old RUC element that are going for their pound of flesh
They're probably just doing their job as they should be.
I don't know what else they could be expected to do. If laws need to be changed or immunity agreed then that's for the politicians to sort out.
Released without charge a couple of hours ago.
Rather it points up the need to draw a line under what happened before 1998. See South Africa and 'truth and reconciliation'.
I don't think the two situations are anywhere near comparable enough to share a solution strategy.
All key players are too entrenched in the history to make real progress. Time is healing but proper politics won't emerge while those that created and enflamed the conflict are the architects of the solutions.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be amnesties, absolutions and lines drawn, just that we should be placing our faith in other people or parties.
Only 50% of the country even bothers to vote.
The content of these 'Boston Tapes' sure do sound interesting.
looks like the family are going to take a civil action case against him next
Can one of you in the know link me to a good article that explains this whole affair?
Gerry has his say in the Guardian today.
The Jean McConville killing: I'm completely innocent. But what were my accusers' motives?
The Jean McConville killing: I'm completely innocent. But what were my accusers' motives?
Adams may not be directly involved but he is certainly aware of the circumstances of her death and disappearance. I really don't see how they can get anything from him because they obviously have no evidence of his involvement and he is hardly going to confess any knowledge.
By the same token, you'd never get away with keeping a member of another party without charge.
My opinion only of course but I think anyone who knows anything about Sinn Fein over the last 40 years knows how clever they were, and how calculated and complex they were in structure. They had a long term plan for parliamentary participation and Adams was earmarked for a parliamentary role long ago. He is as innocent or guilty as any political leader whose militia kill and assassinate. He would have been removed from most violence, if only to have someone 'clean'.
Ireland has a history of the gun, we are not yet 100 years from our first Dail, where members left their guns at a desk on the way in, and took them up on leaving. All of our parties have an involvement with the gun less than 100 years ago. The Free State Government continued their use of violence long into their first term as elected leaders of Ireland, exerting a force against political opponents and rebels as bad as any seen on this Island. The arbitrary drawing of lines really bothers me. All of our main parties were granted an amnesty when they put their guns down. A few decades doesn't give FF and FG the right to such hypocrisy.
They are scared not about the guns in SF's past but the votes in their future. And the treatment RTE give SF is sickening.
Ireland has a history of the gun, we are not yet 100 years from our first Dail, where members left their guns at a desk on the way in, and took them up on leaving. All of our parties have an involvement with the gun less than 100 years ago. The Free State Government continued their use of violence long into their first term as elected leaders of Ireland, exerting a force against political opponents and rebels as bad as any seen on this Island. The arbitrary drawing of lines really bothers me. All of our main parties were granted an amnesty when they put their guns down. A few decades doesn't give FF and FG the right to such hypocrisy.
They are scared not about the guns in SF's past but the votes in their future. And the treatment RTE give SF is sickening.
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They probably didn't tell Adams because they didn't want him to know and hence be vulnerable to an investigation. I've seen similar things done in companies where bribes need to be paid, the top guys don't know the specifics and don't want to know.
Adams wasn't that high up in 1972 so theres a good chance he does know..but I dont think we shall ever find out
Yep, his 'innocence' will be strategic and not moral.
That's a fascinating read there.
The thing about Gerry Adams, whether you love him or loathe him, is that he can articulate and argue his side of the argument multiple times better than any other politician in NI. I'm no SF supporter but I can completely understand why a lot of people are drawn in by him. You very rarely, if ever see him flustered or involved in a heated debate with anyone.
I can completely see him sitting in that police station for 4 or 5 days cool as a cucumber and completely calm. And I am actually of the opinion that he was involved at some level in the jean McConville case, but they just won't be able to make anything stick.
Imagine a similar article under the same circumstances if this had been a unionist politician, it would have been all fire and brimstone!
Yeah he's an incredibly politically astute individual. I recall reading in Ed Malony's book about an (alleged) incident in the early days of the troubles where he held a group of IRA men at gun point. They had been on their way to Ballymurphy to defend the area during riots between locals and soldiers but Adams knew that by letting the army weigh in heavy handedly it would foster greater resentment of the British army and radicalise young nationalists pushing them towards the IRA. Given that kind of cold ability to see a bigger picture and keeping cool under pressure you could argue that he displays many traits that would put him on the psychopathic spectrum, in the same way that many highly successful people, politicians, CEOs etc have tendencies to display psychopathic traits.
I read something the other day (cant recall where and will try to find it), that the IRA actually identified these qualities in him very early on in the early 70's and that a decision was made to take him out of the "front line" if you will - i.e. make sure he doesn't get involved in anything that could end up with him imprisoned and leave the dirty stuff to others.
The reason being that the qualities they identified in him, and why they wanted him as the political face of the IRA, far better served their purposes long term than him being banged up. If true, its an amazing bit of talent spotting!!
While I don't agree with a lot of what he agrees with (I would describe myself more of a nationalist than a republican), I have to admit that he completely fascinates me. I've never seen anyone get the better of him. I actually love to see him in interviews, talk shows, newsnight and this type of thing.
anyone seen this?Not exactly fitting in with the 'terrorism' title of the thread, but since this is the de facto Norn Iron thread, great to see the huge anti-racism rally in Belfast today. People from all walks of life attended and the usual handful of fleggers stood and shouted "send them all home" to the crowd. Thousands upon thousands of people turn up at very short notice, yet the fleggers can only get half a dozen despite having been going at it for 18 months.
WE are the people nai!
WE are the people nai!