It's about time we had a national flag with some tits on it. Rather than just on the local news.
I like it. We just need to change the colour scheme.
Northern Ireland Thread
- Thread starter Gaz.
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It's about time we had a national flag with some tits on it. Rather than just on the local news.
I like it. We just need to change the colour scheme.
isnt that the Irish flag from the 16th or 17th century? Not sure what point you're making
I have no problems with them flying it like, I just don't like the way it's referred to as the flag of the 'Republic of Ireland' as it seems to be called. It's not and never was, it's the flag of Ireland (completely different thing altogether).
I would be totally opposed to that personally.
Well they sometimes go under the one flag.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Unification_Flag
Their was also a joint declaration on unification by both governments in 2000.
Nope that was the flag up until the tricolour. The point is its a fecking flag, my problem with this whole flag situation hasnt been the flag its been making sure democracy works and bullies dont get their way. Your passive aggressive duo with Neviller in this last few pages has been interesting. Not once did you consider the soon to be 50% of "Norn Irish" who dont identify with that flag and certainly didnt come from transplanted britishers.
Thats the whole problem from our side of things, you lot dont even consider us an entity in the discussion. Just a sad lost tribe wanting to turn back the clock, when in actual fact we mostly want to enjoy our identity, culture and heritage and nationality without it being shoved down our throat that we cant have it. Not only that we are expected to sit back and allow your people to enjoy their culture, which is fine, but also for many decades flout it on our faces.
Times have changed somewhat but the triumphalism and one upmanship is always there. And right now world is watching as members from your society are blatantly paralyzing a city causing economic chaos and setting Norn Iron back decades and all you cnuts can do is talk about fecking foreign flags and British state.
Yep I sure do, theres about 12 of them flying high just at the end of my street.
Sounds like a right shithole.
Well I hope you have a union flag up there along with them, for equality and that.
Maybe as a fair and reasonable compromise we should fly both flags over the whole island. I'd probably be ok with that.
Thats fine Ramshock but theres another side to the story too. People like me who grew up British, identified as British,speaking the English language
Now over the last few years, our identity is being stripped away, with street signs in Irish, more and more things being "given away" to appease Nationalists. Thats why there are a bunch of neanderthals on the streets of Belfast rioting. The flag is seen as 1 more thing, with nothing coming back the other way. Speak to the normal person on the street from their area and they will tell you that Nationalists are getting everything in terms of grants/financial assistance for their areas etc but that protestant areas are getting nothing.
To be honest, I grew up in a mixed housing estate with my best mates being catholics so flags from either side are nothing more than a rag to me. However, being a protestant from the north, I can understand where they are coming from.
Much as you are coming from the opposite feelings, having grown up on the flip side of that argument in the 70's and 80's. You should understand that prods are now feeling the reverse of that.
As for causing economic choas etc, where were the nationalist voices when the provies were blowing up random stores in Belfast and having whole cities closed down for bomb scares? The eyes of the world were upon us then too.
and dont call me a passive aggressive
Now over the last few years, our identity is being stripped away, with street signs in Irish, more and more things being "given away" to appease Nationalists. Thats why there are a bunch of neanderthals on the streets of Belfast rioting. The flag is seen as 1 more thing, with nothing coming back the other way. Speak to the normal person on the street from their area and they will tell you that Nationalists are getting everything in terms of grants/financial assistance for their areas etc but that protestant areas are getting nothing.
To be honest, I grew up in a mixed housing estate with my best mates being catholics so flags from either side are nothing more than a rag to me. However, being a protestant from the north, I can understand where they are coming from.
Much as you are coming from the opposite feelings, having grown up on the flip side of that argument in the 70's and 80's. You should understand that prods are now feeling the reverse of that.
As for causing economic choas etc, where were the nationalist voices when the provies were blowing up random stores in Belfast and having whole cities closed down for bomb scares? The eyes of the world were upon us then too.
and dont call me a passive aggressive
Yeah, I know that's an impossibility, I was among the first to say that.
Pete brought up the nature of the state. And the issue is a bit more complex than flying a British flag over a British state, which is all I was saying. If it wasn't we wouldn't have Unionists on the streets at the moment. This process with the flag is an acknowledgement by the legislators that it isn't simply a British State over which we will fly the British flag. Thankfully.
I ignored the superfluous bollox. And you were boring me. Not like you to expect someone to hold back the harsher truths.
But I've just checked and it is a British State, spread the word and I'm sure once everyone knows things will settle down.
(edit - the more I look at that reply the more I laugh, you the most abusive poster on the boards.)
If I start at my end, and you inform your new facebook mates we'll get it done in half the time.
What has been given away? The RUC in favour of an equally represented Police force? Street signs that now appear in both English and Irish to represent both communities? What else? The Union Jack flag hasn't even been given away, it will still fly on the City Hall.
Is that grants/financial assistance thing even true? All that represents to me is the continuing march to equality, which one side seems flat against.
Really? Is that what the vote was all about? Sending a message to the Brits that we can't always get our own way? And there was me thinking it was just a Democratic decision to bring Belfast in to line with other councils throughout the UK, like the ones who made the decision have been telling us the last few weeks.
you miss the point PhilipB
thats the perception of the protestant people, people who grew up identifying themselves as British
thats the perception of the protestant people, people who grew up identifying themselves as British
Even if small, that is progress. And all progress will be incremental. It will have to be, otherwise you'll just revert back to the 'It's an Irish Island' v 'It's a British State' brigades.
http://www.historyireland.com/volumes/volume5/issue1/reviews/?id=113261
The Irish language was actually promoted and kept alive in Ulster by Scottish settlers. Its a pity that it has become such a political issue.
It's not maths, or logic. It is not solely a UK issue, it is very much entwined in the island, and enforcing the legislation wouldn't have been done previously.
Explain the protest in Dublin if it's solely a UK council issue?
Nuances, tricky devils.
How many Irish people in Northern Ireland even speak the language?
167,487 people in 2001 census had some level of irish.
I have a B in it at GCSE level. I'll probably learn it fluently at some stage as my sister can speak it and occasionally says stuff to me in it to annoy me.
Should the unionist leaders not then correct that perception and inform those that vote for them that what has happened in the last 10-15 years and what is happening presently is a move towards equality?
As Philip says, what has actually been taken away? Leaving aside the perception.
I'm not a SF supporter by any means but there is very little that lady says in that video that I can disagree with.
A lot less than would were it not banned. You can't ban a language, put us in jail for learning it on the sly then give us shit for not knowing it as a nation. That's just not cricket.
You thinking of reclaiming the States too? None of them speak Sioux.
Not so sure I could speak for SF in the North as it's a very different thing on the streets I'd say, but some of the newer younger ones down here do speak sense, although in the current political climate down here, common sense is akin to genius.
Perception is everything. You are 100% right there. I and others were derided for the Nationalist communities perception that the PSNI still discriminating against nationalists. I do see how the Loyalists and even the more moderate Unionists will feel aggrieved at what they see as losing their identity. But as Phil says, what have you guys lost? The RUC, the B-Specials, Marching through contentious Nationalist areas. None of those things were viable in a modern NI.
The issues around the flag again is a nonsense so really it boils down to the Loyalists trying to portray themselves as the victims which they have been trying to do for years now. The reason a lot of their grants have been taken from them is because they were going straight to the paramilitaries. That's no-ones fault but their own.
That's my perception anyway!
the fact that you're hearing it more and more means that it is the perception on the ground. My point precisely
this thread just highlights that divisions are bubbling under the surface, it not already at the top. Thats why there will never be a solution that keeps everyone happy in our lifetime.
On a lighter note, if I was to ask you what a Protestant Sandwich was, would you know?
Why would it be a shithole? Its only flags which, again, is my point. You are making a cnut out of yourself in this thread.
And that is really all that counts in these situations.
But it's a delicate balance if one side perceives they are making too many concessions while the other side feels that their feelings are unfounded.
Both sides all along have belived they were in the right, and to a degree they are. In theory, not ever in the atrocities carried out over time. I could debate for either side in this as strongly as the other. Who is right is no longer an issue, there needs to be willingness to compromise and there just visibly isn't in sections of the loyalist community, so this loyalist violence along with catholic perception that no concessions are actually being made will just lead to catholic anger.
I was in fecking nappies when all that was going on how would I know. I do respect your opinion Geebs, especially since you are a protestant Ulsterman living in Dublin and obviously still arent endeared to the idea of reunification despite living there. However saying your identity is being stripped is ridiculous. With that attitude does this debate become a matter of time frame then? Do we go into what was stripped of whom first?You do realize that Irish was the lands only language up until comparative recent history? The street signs to us are a sign of equality to you, as you have shown, its a sign of weakness or giving away something.
Why should it be giving away anything? Whats the harm in embracing both cultures? The end of the day the truth of the matter is your side feels like it has to go along with progress and mending fences but the actual doing it is a different matter.
I hate to say this, but its something I noticed when I lived in the states. I saw many instances of underhanded or slight and even blatant outright racism especially towards mexican kids i coached. Everytime I witnessed it it brought me back home to the bad days. When I see white polticians now barely concealing their contempt for a black president it reminds me of the likes of Paisley and Trimble back in the days dancing their way down Garvaghy Road and now having to share or deal with the other side they use to treat as second class scum. There has to be true equality in my eyes to make Northern Ireland work and it begins and ends with its citizens respecting democracy and not destroying it.
I hope I didn't offend anyone by suggesting that both flags should be flown - it was just me looking at the situation in the most simplistic way, and I appreciate that it's far from simple, and would bow to the greater knowledge of the people who are far more clued up on it than me.
So the DUP are pretty much in control of all the purse strings then?
I'm not alone. And if it's only this thread then fair enough, you're a cnut everywhere.
I'm actually pretty fair in these discussions, given that I take constant shit for being a prod in good grace, since I take most of it in the right way I think it's mostly intended. Can you say the same? You seem to have taken umbrage tonight to very little. I don't get all huffy when you or others make wee digs, do I?
Don't be silly, it's ridiculous that it could be offensive, and that's not your fault.
But it does show that people are more attached to symbols that resolution.
I don't think anyone was offended by what livvie said at all.
It proves that's what they think if that's what you are hearing. Which is all GB is saying I think.
Whether they be right or wrong is seperate issue.
Victim!