Northern Ireland Thread

ThehatchetMan said:
What votes? The extra 1% that SF gained which were likely from people who didn’t vote last election? They didn’t gain any extra seats.

And what about the progressive policies which invoked this huge change, what changed policy wise wirh SF from 2017? Why have they not implemented these progressive policies over the last 20 years?

I think there will be a lot of disillusioned SF supporters when they realise that very little changes in the political landscape after this election.

SF know this themselves anyway. That’s why it will be interesting now to see if their actions speak louder than their words and if they will push for constitutional change so they have a chance of implementing the policies which they promised their voters.

Or will it just be more of the status quo? And don’t get me wrong I do fully blame the DUP for the lack of progress on most things. But they will continue to be the largest unionist party because the more liberal “orange voters” want to vote for a party which pledges to represent all. And thus this is why reform is needed at the assembly for reform to happen. Surely you understand that?

Or if not. Then what do you think changes with SF as FM and DUP as DFM? How does this differ from the last 20 years?

EDIT: I’m not saying any of the above to be a dick. I’m just being realistic. Do not doubt for one second how happy I am to see SF pip DUP to FM. I just don’t foresee the same changes happening that some SF supporters do because the result is largely the same assembly as before.

I think the real revolution from this election is the fact that Alliance have more than doubled their seats and had an increase in 5% of FPV as well as continuing to be one of the most transfer friendly parties.
For me this is just as significant as SF gaining FM and is the biggest change in this election. And I think more of SDLPs lost votes would have went to Alliance rather than SF.

I feel sorry for UUP/SDLP because there are some very good politicians within both parties. But due to them identifying as Unionist/Nationalist it will always hinder them and they will continue to lose votes to Alliance as well as the other way to SF/DUP.
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I'm out at the minute so can't really reply in detail, I don't disagree with much that you say. In short the assembly needs some type of reform and I think the growth in centre will move that along.

Long gone are the days of the shady, backroom, army council calling the shots. SF have evolved into a modern progressive socialist party..... All the opinion polls were pointing to them losing seats/votes, it was a great result.
 
ThehatchetMan said:
What votes? The extra 1% that SF gained which were likely from people who didn’t vote last election? They didn’t gain any extra seats.

And what about the progressive policies which invoked this huge change, what changed policy wise wirh SF from 2017? Why have they not implemented these progressive policies over the last 20 years?

I think there will be a lot of disillusioned SF supporters when they realise that very little changes in the political landscape after this election.

SF know this themselves anyway. That’s why it will be interesting now to see if their actions speak louder than their words and if they will push for constitutional change so they have a chance of implementing the policies which they promised their voters.

Or will it just be more of the status quo? And don’t get me wrong I do fully blame the DUP for the lack of progress on most things. But they will continue to be the largest unionist party because the more liberal “orange voters” want to vote for a party which pledges to represent all. And thus this is why reform is needed at the assembly for reform to happen. Surely you understand that?

Or if not. Then what do you think changes with SF as FM and DUP as DFM? How does this differ from the last 20 years?

EDIT: I’m not saying any of the above to be a dick. I’m just being realistic. Do not doubt for one second how happy I am to see SF pip DUP to FM. I just don’t foresee the same changes happening that some SF supporters do because the result is largely the same assembly as before.

I think the real revolution from this election is the fact that Alliance have more than doubled their seats and had an increase in 5% of FPV as well as continuing to be one of the most transfer friendly parties.
For me this is just as significant as SF gaining FM and is the biggest change in this election. And I think more of SDLPs lost votes would have went to Alliance rather than SF.

I feel sorry for UUP/SDLP because there are some very good politicians within both parties. But due to them identifying as Unionist/Nationalist it will always hinder them and they will continue to lose votes to Alliance as well as the other way to SF/DUP.
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Its actually very hard for DUP or SF to gain to gain any more seats than the upper ceiling both have hit due to the nature of NI politics.
Nothing much can change but its a huge sign of the times that we can have a SF first minister in a country that was set up to keep nationalists out. That's also 8 (?) seats DUP have lost combined in these two Brexit era elections without any other Unionist voice picking up the slack. As far as trends go and what can change, we are seeing that change, just not in 1 election window.
 
Good comments guy :) This election is defo a step in the right direction anyway. Hopefully we continue moving in this trajectory!
 
thebelfastboy said:
The DUP and TUV were the only parties running an orange v green election, and stoking tension and division non? That needs to be clear.

On SDLP? they are completely lost, what do they actually stand for now? I know Nicola Mallon and she's a lovely girl, hard-working, principled etc; but I think they've completely lost touch with their base if there is even is one now? Can they recover? I don't think so from here.

Eastwood seems like a decent guy alright but he's part of the problem imo. After the count when it was clear that SDLP were down and losing seats he says "people have lent their vote to SF"... No Colm, they've voted for SF because they offer progressive politics with politicians who are actually in touch with their voter base. Those votes aren't coming back.
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They voted Sinn Fein to beat the DUP and I think many may have voted Alliance. There’s a lot of soul searching to be done within the SDLP but I think they’ll come back from this not buying the party is over or Eastwood should resign just yet. I think they had many good candidates and ran a good campaign but are ultimately weaker than Sinn Fein so seen as a vote lost.
 
ThehatchetMan said:
Alliance are a weird one. I think because they neither declare as unionist or nationalist that it is a massive benefit they have. Which is funny in a way because people vote for them out of protest and the want for change from Green (SF)/ Orange (DUP) politics which then makes voting Alliance slightly tribal in itself.

I do find it quite disheartening though when you browse sites such as Reddit which have a massive nationalist bias and are constantly trying to snipe at alliance voters.

There is certainly an aurora of arrogance surrounding some SF voters at present, even reading their comments about Collum Eastwood who I think had done an exceptional job at SDLP and they’re all just having digs at him.

I guess it just feels like they’ve became very condescending and patronising where they think their party is the shit and just see faults in every other opposing party. Similar to how Tory voters view the rest of the electorate.

However that’s just a small proportion of SF voters and usuall the loud minority. I’m very happy to see a nationalist party get FM and this is a landmark occasion so congratulations to them and their supporters.

I just hope that this really is “time for change” but unfortunately the DUP/SF combo has delivered very little for NI over the last 2 decades and I have very little faith that this election is going to change that at all.

So while Alliance may be a bit wishy washy. I have a lot more faith in them and other parties I mentioned above delivering for NI than I do the current combo who prefer to squabble and collapse government other petty shite like flying union jacks at city hall, Irish language acts, RHI schemes, protocols etc..

If SF are as progressive as they say they are and if they truly want to implement these progressive policies then surely reforming the assembly will be top of their agenda. They know that while they share governance with the DUP they will always struggle to push forward with their more progressive policies.

So it is in their best interests as well as the electorate to push for reform in how the FM/DFM are determined and to allow for parties such as Aliiance to potentially take Up those positions who they know would be in more support if their policies.I believe Alliance have voted with SF something like 75% of time over last 5 years for example.

So I guess this is the real test now. Are they a progressive party which want change? Or do they want to keep the status quo which delivers very little for the country but keeps them relevant and in high paying jobs but delivering very little.
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There’s always been a bit of nonsense between SF and SDLP. I remember a well known SDLP councillor in Derry used to get all kinds of abuse from SF supporters, broken windows on his house etc. it’s always been there. Not quite sure why
 
Why do the government keep throwing out bits and pieces that they will do something about the protocol when we all know the reality is they won’t ?

it doesn’t help anyone least of all the DUP
 
Liz Truss ‘preparing to scrap parts of Northern Ireland protocol’

Foreign secretary reported to have asked officials to prepare draft that would put UK in breach of its treaty obligations


Liz Truss is reportedly preparing draft legislation that would unilaterally scrap key parts of the Northern Ireland protocol, removing the need for checks on goods between Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

No bill was announced in the Queen’s speech on Tuesday but the foreign secretary is reported to have asked officials to prepare the draft, which would put the UK in breach of its treaty obligations.


As well as scrapping checks, the draft legislation would also take away powers of the European court of justice and remove all requirement for Northern Irish businesses to follow EU regulations.

A government source confirmed Truss intended to move unilaterally to prepare to change parts of the protocol but denied that the UK government had given up on negotiation. Truss is understood to have formed the view that the UK cannot wait for negotiations to conclude before preparing to act unilaterally, given the election results in Northern Ireland over the weekend.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-to-tear-up-northern-ireland-protocol-reports
 
So if they rip it up does that mean a hard border ?

Not that I believe for one second they are going to rip it up. Just more curious.
 
I'd love to see every elected politician that's sick of the DUP and Sinn Feins attempts to stop the institutions from functioning turn up to Stormont and protest on the steps to show the British and Irish governments there are people that are ready to move NI forward. If the backstop is affecting busines in NI it needs to be changed, but it's not enough of a reason not to turn up to represent the people that have elected you.
 
This seems to be good news. My wife and her family feared that this bill, as originally written, would have meant that those who facilitated and/or organised their father and uncle's murder would never even be identified. Those who actually pulled the triggers and set off the bomb were caught and put in prison but they didn't act alone.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...will-give-amnesty-only-to-those-who-cooperate
 
Green_Red said:
I'd love to see every elected politician that's sick of the DUP and Sinn Feins attempts to stop the institutions from functioning turn up to Stormont and protest on the steps to show the British and Irish governments there are people that are ready to move NI forward. If the backstop is affecting busines in NI it needs to be changed, but it's not enough of a reason not to turn up to represent the people that have elected you.
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In SF defence at least what they collapsed the government over was something which could be resolved within stormont. And while I don’t agree with collapsing the assembly, the RHI scheme has cost NI a lot of money and it should have been investigated with individuals held accountable.

The one common denominator though is the DUP, who are responsible for all the feck ups which has caused stormont to collapse these last few years.

And I’m a prod saying this too lol!
 
ThehatchetMan said:
In SF defence at least what they collapsed the government over was something which could be resolved within stormont. And while I don’t agree with collapsing the assembly, the RHI scheme has cost NI a lot of money and it should have been investigated with individuals held accountable.

The one common denominator though is the DUP, who are responsible for all the feck ups which has caused stormont to collapse these last few years.

And I’m a prod saying this too lol!
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Every opportunity to make something a divisive political issue is taken at first chance by both sides. Its rare to see a bipartisan approach to anything. It must be frustrating to live with.
 
Rooney24 said:
There is no hope....

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Unfortunately I imagine there's probably not many people on this forum even venture anywhere near this thread.

Is this what is really going on behind closed doors in Loyalist Orange halls across the country?

I've seen the video and I whilst I hope that her close family never have to see it, it should be on mainstream UK national news to educate the rest of the UK about this place. Completely sickening.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-61680319
 
I don't think this is a common thing. I've never heard it before, hoping it is just a one off, but I could be wrong.

Just don't understand some people
 
arnie_ni said:
I don't think this is a common thing. I've never heard it before, hoping it is just a one off, but I could be wrong.

Just don't understand some people
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I would like to hope you were right but it looks like that song has had a good few airings before now coming to public attention.
 
I know even Jamie bryson has called this out, and those bystanders for not shutting it down, but I don't think I know anyone, either side of the fence that would shut down songs like these.

I'm not sure that's a fair criticism. It should be held for the imbeciles singing.

And furthermore, a couple of years ago there was the castlederg/Killen incident singing a song, a few months ago, we had the GAA team singing songs, now this. I think it just about sums up the people involved when they are still stupid enough to post these rituals on social media.
 
arnie_ni said:
I know even Jamie bryson has called this out, and those bystanders for not shutting it down, but I don't think I know anyone, either side of the fence that would shut down songs like these.

I'm not sure that's a fair criticism. It should be held for the imbeciles singing.

And furthermore, a couple of years ago there was the castlederg/Killen incident singing a song, a few months ago, we had the GAA team singing songs, now this. I think it just about sums up the people involved when they are still stupid enough to post these rituals on social media.
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You seem to remember the times nationalists have participated in Wolfe Tone songs, but have conveniently forgotten any loyalist singing :lol:
 
Deery said:
So it is common place then?
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Changed your tune haven't ye, yet you still haven't understood. I was talking about this specific song. I've never heard it sung, never heard it mentioned.

Again, I hope its not common place, but I could be wrong.
 
arnie_ni said:
Changed your tune haven't ye, yet you still haven't understood. I was talking about this specific song. I've never heard it sung, never heard it mentioned.

Again, I hope its not common place, but I could be wrong.
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Suppose that makes it alright then.
 
Deery said:
You seem to remember the times nationalists have participated in Wolfe Tone songs, but have conveniently forgotten any loyalist singing :lol:
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You seem to label Catholics as nationalist and Protestants as loyalists. Almost like you have some bias yourself.
 
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