Just got back from seeing it, thought it was very very good... not quite as good as The Dark Knight, but probably on a par with Begins.
I'm quite suprised for the praise that Hathaway's getting... I thought she was okay at best. At times, particularly in the first half of the film, I thought there were bits where she was really over-acting/hamming it up, and it made me realise i'm actually watching a silly comic-book film, and one of the things i've liked about this Batman series has been it's ability to make you forget you're watching a comic-book film.
Also, out of all 3, this one is surely the least kid friendly. How long did we actually see Wayne in his Batman gear in this film?? I reckon it was about 20 minutes or so??... not that i'm complaining of course, just think it's quite interesting that the film worked incredibly well despite their not actually being that much Batman.
- Did Coltard/Talia's master plan hold up post-reveal? I mean, why did she let Catwoman break out Fox and Wayne? for example?
- I agree that it diminished the power/force of Bane... who up until that point was pretty fantastic I thought. His death was also a bit anti-climatic because of it
- JGL was excellent... and a great way to use/introduce the Robin character. What I didn't need was the rather ridiculous "I like your real name... Robin" at the end, I had already worked out that much cheers.
- As per usual, Michael Caine offered up fantastic support.
- Good cameo's from Murphy and Liam Neeson as well... who should always be required to fit the word "taken" into any cameo he ever makes.
As for the introduction of Robin - it would have been better if you saw the name on the paper/bag, or someone bumped into him and he dropped it, they picked it up and said there you go Mr. Robin after looking at it.
If the dark knight was a 10, this was a 9.5 and batman begins was a 9. Three absolutely fantastic movies with a brilliant cast, all of which played their characters to perfection. One thing I really loved about this trilogy was the musical score. It took many of the action sequences to a different level. Nolan absolutely nailed these movies.
As for the introduction of Robin - it would have been better if you saw the name on the paper/bag, or someone bumped into him and he dropped it, they picked it up and said there you go Mr. Robin after looking at it.
I'd go more like an 8 for Begings, 7.5 for the sequels, or something, I agree with most of the flaws and tidbits brought up for the TDKR, and this only for a film that's been out for like 2 days and you could already write a short novel overanalysing it's problems. But yeah, you can't really make a blockbuster, especially a superhero one, without them, so you have to have some leeway when watching them, I mean the flaws are no way near as annoying or openly as lazy as Transformers or Prometheus, but they aren't as tight as say a Terminator 2 or Spielberg at this peak, though very close.
I don't think they tore up their original idea too, Joker was intended to be around yes, but they weren't going to have another film with him as the main or even secondary villain again unless they were initially planning to make it four films, and then he died, so just basically merged all the non-Joker stuff into long ass film, which would kind of make sense, since they took ideas from about 4-5 novels in this one, whereas they only used about 2 in the previous films.
Robin reveal...I think they did it really well. Everyone hates Robin. He's a shit character which undermines the cooless of Batman to most un-comic-initiated people. I've looked on some geeky forums where they've been bitching over how it wasn't the correct canon character and thus shit (which is, in part, why everyone hates obsessive comic book fans) but I thought it was handled as good as it possibly could be in this type of series. It fit into the whole "inspiring people" theme of Begins, and the fact we got to know and like this character before we thought of him as the shit gay tight panted pedest character we all know and hate, made the reveal all the more rewarding IMO. Gordon Levit was a really good choice.
...Also Hathaway nailed Catwoman. Almost as much as I'd like to.
Still, the character was really well done, considering Nolan basically said he found Robin to be too cheesy to fit into his films, fair fecks to him he found a way to make it work.
I thought it was brilliant. The plot felt forced and weak at times but I'm glad they maintained the underlying themes of the Batman trilogy and placed some human drama instead of making it a mindless action movie. It was definitely Bale's best performance as Wayne/Batman, some people complained that he spent lesser time in the bat suit but that lets us see a more vulnerable, human side of Batman instead of some godlike superhero i.e. The Avengers.
The most emotional and action-packed out of the three. The last 30 minutes of the film had me on the edge of my seat. It had everything you look for in an action movie. 9/10
My main gripe with the film:
The ridiculous Taila reveal and her relationship with Bane.
Bane revealed as a puppet and his death.
Bruce's escape from the prison and journey back to Gotham. Utterly unrealistic.
The whole 'Gotham City overran by anarchism'
The Police clashing with the criminals - They just had to add a huge fight scene in it.
Batman scouring for Bane in the crowd and engaging him there. Very un-Batman-like. I would have preferred that they took the fight elsewhere.
Still, the character was really well done, considering Nolan basically said he found Robin to be too cheesy to fit into his films, fair fecks to him he found a way to make it work.
Well if you don't read the comics....he kind of is, and Mockers made it clear he doesn't read the comics. Theres so many variations of him in the comics too, but some are good, some are terrible.
Well if you don't read the comics....he kind of is, and Mockers made it clear he doesn't read the comics. Theres so many variations of him in the comics too, but some are good, some are terrible.
The part where Bane revealed the truth about Dent though, nothing happened as a result. JGL got mad at Gordon for a bit, but not really, and it didn't really change things in Gotham. Clearly it wasn't part of the plan either, so what was the deal?
The part where Bane revealed the truth about Dent though, nothing happened as a result. JGL got mad at Gordon for a bit, but not really, and it didn't really change things in Gotham. Clearly it wasn't part of the plan either, so what was the deal?
It was sort of used as justification for freeing the prisoners, as it implied some of them were locked away unfairly... but yeah, it wasn't really needed, or followed-up very well
It was sort of used as justification for freeing the prisoners, as it implied some of them were locked away unfairly... but yeah, it wasn't really needed, or followed-up very well
As Zen said, to the uninitiated. I'm by no means a comic book person (other than reading the Watchman, which I thought was fantastic) I'm sure there are great interpretations, but to the layman, I'd say that was largely the feeling. It's jarring. I watch these films as films first, homage to what little comic lore I know second (and I know a bit...I spend an unhealthy amount of time on wikipedia learning second hand, unreliable details about anything and everything)
From what I've seen, I think ...
Most people with a problem with the Robin reveal in this film are the hardcore comic fans who obsess over canon and get annoyed by diversions they don't approve of (not all comic fans are like this at all, but I think the subsection of those that didn't like it are much larger than the section of passing interest/general film goers who didn't)...Like people earlier saying "he should've been called Dick Grayson"...It doesn't really matter. This makes by far the most sense in this universe. No one would create an intimidating symbol of justice called fecking Robin. Robin as a christian name makes perfect sense as a nod to the character without having to adhere to any of his silly tropes. And revealing this at any other time than at the very end would create biased expectations of the character.
I'm also really glad you lot don't write movies. The idea of a book falling open with a name a certain amount of people wouldn't get is not a good idea fwiw.
As for the Gordon thing..
The public reveal was more about clearing Batman's name than anything else. The public needed to know he didn't do it to make him a hero again....And to go back to Excal's "we didn't take anything on faith in TDK" thing, I never got why anyone needed to blame Batman anyway. They could've just blamed it on the Joker or any number of things surely?
I personally think Excal is over egging TDK under egging this, but where I'd agree with him is..
It doesn't match the former for instantly iconic moments. There's nothing to rival the pencil scene, the truck flip, "hit me" or the hospital detonation....Thought that could be a first viewing reaction
Saw it last night, thought it was excellent. Not as good as the other two, but still a very good film. A few gripes which have already been covered (my main one being the last 5 minutes of Banes appearance in the film).
Overall though a superb trilogy by Nolan. Really brought Batman back from the brink after the horrors of the films before it.
Saw it last night. Absolutely loved it. It was actually a fairly emotional film. Not as good The Dark Night for me. You just can't top Heath Ledger's Joker but it was definitely better than Batman Begins for me, which while nice was a curtain raiser.
Also, I have NEVER seen people in an Indian cinema hall applauding for a character during a HOLLYWOOD movie. It usually happens in non multiplex halls for bollywood stars but last night in a multiplex hall people were pretty much cheering for Batman. There was applause when he made his first appearance and pretty much at all the other moments where he does something epic. Shows what an impact this series has had.
Finally, well done Chris Nolan on what ill remember as one of my favorite film series'. Outstanding job. Although I do wonder just how unbelievable this would have been with Heath Ledger in it.
Glad Batman didn't die at the end. It just wouldnt have been right imo. I'm all for endings like that usually that are hard to swallow yet so apt but Batman is different.
And while Baine was good, he wasn't an ironic villain. He was basically, tough as nails and completely cold hearted. The joker on the other hand, especially Ledger's, was ironic in pretty much every move or expression he made.
In many ways better than the second and definitely better than the first. Different from the previous two, which in my book is a good thing as its not simply a rehash. Lots of story lines to link together, lots of new characters to introduce and several of the old characters with issues to resolve, took best part of the film but it kept me engaged. Dark, intricate and with an epic (if not outlandish), canvas - just like the best comic stories, it never forgot that the central character Bruce Wayne: a man with extraordinary strength and intelligence but with a lifetime of hurting; alone, tortured, perhaps psychotic in his quest to destroy evil.
Outstanding film in that it is like no other in its genre which put's it into its own class. Was it a bad film? Well, compared to the previous two - no. Compared to the other superhero films, Nolan's Batman is light years better and therefore, the best. What I thought the film really lacked was another film that should have come after the Joker and before Bain(?) that could have taken up some of the strands of the story from this film. Right from the start, it felt like as the writers and director where in a hurry to end the trilogy and that for me was one of the few flaws.
It doesn't match the former for instantly iconic moments. There's nothing to rival the pencil scene, the truck flip or the hospital detonation....Thought that could be a first viewing reaction
The back breaking scene might count, if it wasn't a complete lift from Knightfall. From the minute the gate closes behind Batman you know he's fecked and the lack of music at that point really allows you to focus on the brutality. The blowing up the football field bit might count if we hadn't seen it all already.
As is the eerie National Anthem build up, and throwing the Mask away. Both of which were great, but we saw 6 months ago. I agree with the back break & fight. The whole thing was very well done scoreless, though I still have no idea what that winning blow twirly thing Bane does is, where he sort of spins around and seems to punch Batman on the arm. What's that all about? It looks rubbish. The brutal punching of his face to break his mask was nice though.
There are lots of nitpicks, but there are in TDK too. I think everyone seems to forget that if you take Ledger of out of that film it's far from perfect. It's still a comic book film, no matter how serious, so there are loads of silly implausibilities...
- Why does he make such a big thing about not killing or using guns, but's quite happy to fly around in the Bat-wing firing rockets and machine guns at people? Does his unbreakable rule only count if he's on foot?
- Wouldn't a massive nuclear explosion over an ocean create a devastating Tsunami that would effectively destroy Gotham anyway?
- Why is everyone so terrified of the impossible ice exile walk, but when Batman shows up (in his presumably rather weighty costume) he just bops quite happily across it, and they all stand and have a long conversation on this incredibly precarios surface?
- How exactly does he get back into Gotham anyway? Did he walk across the ice?
- How does Bane get in and out of the 'impossible to escape from' prison?
- Wasn't Raas Al Ghul's plan to destroy Gotham at it's most decadent so it could re-build itself in prosperity again, restoring order to the world? So how exactly is destroying it at it's peak of prosperity so it can become decadent again (and then destroyed) fulfilling this exactly? Isn't it, basically, the complete opposite?
- Why do the keep the police alive in the tunnel? What's the purpose of that exactly? They make a big deal about hope being the pinacle of despair, but there's still a hell of a lot of "I'm not going to kill you yet Mr.Bond" type machina stuff.
- "The World's too small for someone like Bruce Wayne to disappear" ...Apart from in Italian Cafe's evidently.
But I still thought it was brilliant. No comic book film of this ilk is ever going to be completely rid of these kind of things.
I was worried about is being unsatisfying and it wasn't so yeah, the rest is nitpicks. Still, while we're nitpicking...
This one is all over the internet but why did he stop being a white Ledly King with a nose wart halfway through the film? Did Bane leave his leg brace thing on when he sent him down to prison and was leaping about the place?
Great film, felt it just fell short of TDK though. I didn't particularly like anyone's performance.
I always find Bale underwhelming, I couldn't hear what Baine (Tom Hardy) was ever saying.
Anne Hathaway (Catwoman) over acted for the entire film. Michael Caine was insufferable. The rest were all a bit meh, it's fortunate that it was so well written.
Joseph Gordon Levitt (Blake) was pretty good though I thought. He's good in all his films.
overall I thought the 3 films were excellent and came to a good exciting conclusion
its a shame Heath Ledger died - i read on here yesterday that they planned to involve him heavily in the last movie - that would have been fantastic overall
we can nitpick about this and that but overall Nolan has done a great job - really enjoyed the movies but its sad that the next time we see Batman it could be a completely different style of movie
This one is all over the internet but why did he stop being a white Ledly King with a nose wart halfway through the film? Did Bane leave his leg brace thing on when he sent him down to prison and was leaping about the place?
Yeah, that was odd. I assumed, as probably everyone else did that..
The hobbling around on the cane we saw in the trailers came after the back break. There was a nice realistic bit about cartilage damage from years of doing all this stuff, but then it sort of hamstrings the rest of the film in a way because we need to basically completely forget about it so he can get back to being Batman again. If after 8 years he hasn't recovered from all this shit, it seems odd that he can get himself back into peak fitness in 5 months - overcoming that AND the broken back - by doing press ups in a prison. There didn't seem to be much space for any cardio in there. And if this leg thing was lying around, wouldn't he have tried to do this earlier? Just for comfort's sake?
I was worried about is being unsatisfying and it wasn't so yeah, the rest is nitpicks. Still, while we're nitpicking...
This one is all over the internet but why did he stop being a white Ledly King with a nose wart halfway through the film? Did Bane leave his leg brace thing on when he sent him down to prison and was leaping about the place?
When Fox was told that Wayne installed auto pilot on the bat plane, which plane was being examined? The one Batman flew out was destroyed in the nuclear explosion. Are we to assume that, in between saving Gotham, Wayne installed auto pilot on ALL models of the bat plane. We saw the main plane was hidden on the roof of a building. Where were the other models hidden? Bane got his hands on all of Fox's stuff except the planes.
- Why did she sleep with Wayne, a man she supposedly hates? She already had his company... it's not like he didn't trust her at that point.
- Why did she let Catwoman break out Fox and Wayne?
- Why did she let the resistance get as far as it did? She appeared to be on the inside track about most of the goings on with it...
Implausible as in "it's implausible that a guy in face-paint is going around setting bombs" or as in, within the context of a guy in face-paint going around setting bombs, somehow actually implausible? Or in other words, what are you asserting had to be taken on faith?
The whole set up. The Joker's gang wasn't shown to be particularly massive, and Bruce & Alfred's detective work seem to imply his main - or only - allies in the police are Wurtz, Ramirez, and the guy in the van with Gordon.. (unlike Bane's huge army in this for example) so we're taking on faith that it is, and that it's got extensive sources and helpers who not only know that the police have this odd ferry contingency plan to evacuate prisoners & civilians (who're coincidentally roughly equal in numbers, bizarrely) in the unlikely scenario that anyone ever tries to stop people leaving the city by tunnels & bridges. We're then taking it on faith that they knew exactly which ferries were going to be used, in this very small period of time (less than a day) and so managed to rig it not only with loads of explosives, but also a tannoy communications system, without anyone noticing before they set off. Why don't they attempt to contact the bomb squad to try and defuse the bomb? Why do they just stand around waiting to be blown up? They're either ALL on the pay role (even the ones about to be blown up) or they're all terrible, terrible cops.
The whole thing is logistically daft. We're taking on faith the whole premise that these ferries just are rigged with explosives, with the right detonators, because explaining it is far too much of an effort.
There are loads of things like this in it too.
*spoilered for size*
- Why does the Mayor, who's known to have a hit out on him, decide to give the Commissioner's eulogy in broad daylight in the middle of a street? A narrow, valley like street at that with hundreds of vantage points, windows and hiding places?
- How does absolutely none of these hundreds of cops not notice this man with hideous facial scaring standing RIGHT AT THE FRONT of the gun salute corps? Gordon's even deliberately looking out for him, and things that could be "off"
- In the chase scene where the joker is shooting the shit out of the truck with Dent in it. Why do none of the armed, riot gear covered police men in the trucks once attempt to fire back at him? Despite the fact that they're in an armoured van, and he's standing brazenly in the wide open door way of a massive lorry?
- Why does the guy he eventually holds hostage to escape the police station decide to guard him from INSIDE the interrogation room? Why not just stand outside, and watch him from behind the two way mirror. What's the point of guarding him whilst he's IN a cell? Was his whole escape plan contingent on them doing that? What if they hadn't?
Also, as I pointed out earlier..The biggest thing you have to take on faith..
I've still no idea why they had to pin Two-Face's crimes on Batman. There's literally no point in it other than pathos and plot convenience. They could've blamed them on the Joker, or random unsolved crime. But no, apparently they just have to pin it on Batman. As if it would dent people's faith in goodness to have Harvey Dent's name sullied...But apparently not Batman's. Batman, who - now Dent is dead - is the city's ONLY remaining beacon of hope. Wouldn't that depress them far, far more? That's a huge leap of faith, surely?
People accept things like this in films they like, but pick them to death in films they don't. I personally don't think there are significantly more daft things taken on chance in this than there are in TDK. Probably less. The only difference here is they've ramped up the stakes significantly.
They're both brilliant films. But it's odd people ignore the daftness of TDK, but want to highlight it in this.
I actually thought Bane was much clearer than I was expecting, after they obviously touched his dialogue up after the trailers. There were about two instances I think where I couldn't hear him but just worked out what he said a second later.
I can't believe I've gotten this far in without mentioning that I want to do terrible things to Anne Hathaway. Overacting/too campy? It's Catwoman.
The now famous Dark Knight burning building bat symbol poster image literally.
It was a nice sort of easter egg, nod type thing. It really does feel like a cohesive trilogy. Though, whilst we're nit-picking..
It doesn't seem like a very sensible use of time. After 5 whole months away he's - very conveniently - gotten back with only a few hours to spare until the obligatory bomb detonation, and decides to waste presumably a fair amount of it essentially grafitting a building.
Good fanboy trolling as well seeing as how comic-boon Ras uses things called Lazarus Pits to basically be immortal. They actually call the prison a pit early on in the movie which is thematically clever, what with Batman being born again when he rises out of it and blah blah asgard beams.
You could say the same for the character Batman, which has suffered from Overacting/too campy in the past... but in these films they obviously made an effort to reign it in and bring as much realism as possible to it.
