Both elder statesmen in support were superb, as was Oldman. Nothing like throwing a few vets in to give your film a good start really.
Nolan's Batman
- Thread starter Mockney
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Both elder statesmen in support were superb, as was Oldman. Nothing like throwing a few vets in to give your film a good start really.
One thing I want to know is how did Gordon Levitt know Bruce Wayne was Batman?
Because he had the knowledge of his own experience to work with, plus he's super smart... which I think was a message they were trying to get across throughout the film.
Though to be fair, moving away from movie-lore... I'm suprised more people hadn't worked it out really... "Look! Bruce Wayne has resurfaced after 7 years! and in a totally unrelated note... Batman has resurfaced after 7 years!"
Though to be fair, moving away from movie-lore... I'm suprised more people hadn't worked it out really... "Look! Bruce Wayne has resurfaced after 7 years! and in a totally unrelated note... Batman has resurfaced after 7 years!"
Morgan Freeman is excellent full stop. One of my favourite actors.
Yeah that annoyed me too, Selina Kyle and Gordon had it thrown in their faces pretty much and both seemed stunned at the revelation it was Bruce Wayne.....but this kid figured it out because of A LOOK! And yeah, both returning twice at the same time, disappearing for 5 months at the same time and well 'dying' at the same time. It's basically no worse than Superman not even having a disguise and no one knowing.
The movie also went to lengths to show how Levitt was this dedicated cop who became disillusioned with justice and was disgusted by Gordan
When he discovers the bat cave it is suggesting another movie and I am not sure Robin would work without Batman - not sure Levitt has the charisma/presence to be a leading man either
Overall I also thought Two-face could have had a bigger involvement / it was about 20 mins at the end of TDK in total
When he discovers the bat cave it is suggesting another movie and I am not sure Robin would work without Batman - not sure Levitt has the charisma/presence to be a leading man either
Overall I also thought Two-face could have had a bigger involvement / it was about 20 mins at the end of TDK in total
That ending Robin stuff is just to please the audience in my opinion or just leave them hoping for something which might not come. If they had just left it with Batman leaving, then they would have to answer the question of who was looking after Gotham and Robin is the answer. It is more than the pleasure of the fans and something to talk about stuff towards the end of the movie.
The first one no, Batman has been away for 7 years, Bruce Wayne has not. It's implied that he went into hiding AFTER the failure of his energy program which was around 2 or so years before the film.
The return after 5 months, not too many people saw him return as Bruce, Gordon never did, Selina Kyle already knew.
As far as the general public knew, he probably died in the uprising, even those that saw him the 'court room' would think so anyway as the verdicts were always a death sentence.
A couple of thousand people would have died over the occupation and in the retaking of the city, they could all be Batman by that reckoning.
For me I think, everyone knowing he was Batman would have been a better ending, but it kind of goes against the theme of the series and the point that Nolan was trying to make.
He says it in the plane in Begins, "as a symbol, I can be incorruptible, everlasting" I suppose this way he still is, were as if everyone knew he's not a symbol anymore.
The return after 5 months, not too many people saw him return as Bruce, Gordon never did, Selina Kyle already knew.
As far as the general public knew, he probably died in the uprising, even those that saw him the 'court room' would think so anyway as the verdicts were always a death sentence.
A couple of thousand people would have died over the occupation and in the retaking of the city, they could all be Batman by that reckoning.
For me I think, everyone knowing he was Batman would have been a better ending, but it kind of goes against the theme of the series and the point that Nolan was trying to make.
He says it in the plane in Begins, "as a symbol, I can be incorruptible, everlasting" I suppose this way he still is, were as if everyone knew he's not a symbol anymore.
This is another (very) minor issue I had with the film... I don't think they did enough to show us what the true state of Gotham was like under Bane's rule. We're left to assume it was pretty bad, and there was a short montage showing some looting... but we didn't really get an idea of the death toll or tyranny that your average joe lived under.
But in fairness, that would have taken a bit more time, and time is a luxury this film didn't have.
But yeah, I think the allingment of their announced deaths, combined with their simultaenous re-appearances (The 7 year gap especially... but also when Wayne returned to Gotham from the prison as Wayne before he did as Batman... though there wasn't any great indication of how many people actually saw him as Wayne)... it's not an overly difficult puzzle to put together! Obviously this is a comic-book film, so it's not a real criticism... as you have to accept these things when you're watching these kind of films.
But in fairness, that would have taken a bit more time, and time is a luxury this film didn't have.
But yeah, I think the allingment of their announced deaths, combined with their simultaenous re-appearances (The 7 year gap especially... but also when Wayne returned to Gotham from the prison as Wayne before he did as Batman... though there wasn't any great indication of how many people actually saw him as Wayne)... it's not an overly difficult puzzle to put together! Obviously this is a comic-book film, so it's not a real criticism... as you have to accept these things when you're watching these kind of films.
Was he truly announced dead at that point though? Only 4 out of the 5 people that truly knew who Batman was attended a funeral for Bruce Wayne. If it was a full on funeral service for Bruce Wayne no doubt a lot more people would of been there out of respect. It seems to me that Wayne could easily of been classified as 'missing' in Gotham along with the countless other people who went missing / were killed in the battle or due to Crane's "exile"!
If Wayne's death was announced in the press or people who actually knew Wayne were invited so early on to a funeral after the incident took place with no body of Wayne's to bury or anything recovered to prove it was him, then suspicion would of easily raised that he was Batman - if there was one body that people thought wouldn't be recovered, it was probably his! All this mixed in whilst people / bodies were probably still being looked for, it made sense for the people who truly knew who he was to pay their respects in a low key funeral as they thought he had definitely died in the explosion.
If Wayne's death was announced in the press or people who actually knew Wayne were invited so early on to a funeral after the incident took place with no body of Wayne's to bury or anything recovered to prove it was him, then suspicion would of easily raised that he was Batman - if there was one body that people thought wouldn't be recovered, it was probably his! All this mixed in whilst people / bodies were probably still being looked for, it made sense for the people who truly knew who he was to pay their respects in a low key funeral as they thought he had definitely died in the explosion.
I'm sure Gotham knew he was dead seeing as they used his house to keep orphaned children
I think the fact that 4 people were at his funeral was appropriate... as ultimately, Wayne didn't have many friends at all (and the films have never given the impression that he was even liked by people)... so it makes sense that not many people would be invited, nor would even want to attend his funeral... especially as he was completely broke at this point in his life.
I find it hard to believe his death wouldn't have been widely reported/well-known... he had a gravestone next to his parents grave, at a house that he had donated as an Orphanage! I just imagine the fact that he no longer had any money meant that nobody actually cared about him anymore.
I find it hard to believe his death wouldn't have been widely reported/well-known... he had a gravestone next to his parents grave, at a house that he had donated as an Orphanage! I just imagine the fact that he no longer had any money meant that nobody actually cared about him anymore.
Ah shit, totally forgot about the Orphanage! Good point. It was a few months after when the Orphanage would of been created because Gotham seemed to be 'back on it's feet'... So my early funeral theory could be slightly true 
Poor Robin's going to have to trek into the Bat Cave everytime since Wayne Manor's going to be crawling around with kids.
I thought the whole point of Bane's raised in darkness line was as a pre-emptive clue to the viewer that he WASN'T the child raised in the light prison, as he clearly must have been brought up somewhere else. At least that's how I saw it. I didn't have a problem with that.
There's loads of nitpicking to be done but it seems a shame to do so as the things that made the film good didn't really rely on the story being completely flawless, or even not daft.
There's loads of nitpicking to be done but it seems a shame to do so as the things that made the film good didn't really rely on the story being completely flawless, or even not daft.
I agree with others too on reflection. This was the best of the three for me. Batman Begins is probably the one I think is the best film, but this was just so much cooler.
TDK got talked up the most but I was actually slightly underwhelmed when I saw it. It was very good, but lived off the characters and great cast rather than being a great film in itself. I've only watched it all the way through once. Whenever I watch it again I lose interest before the end because everything that happens from the boat part onwards is, well, dumb.
There are a lot of daft things in this film. But TDK, and the second half of Begins are incredibly daft too. If you don't like Nolan, or the film for any other reason, there is plenty to pick out an analize, so it's perfectly fair, but I'm surprised there are people who liked TDK but not this, because it's almost the exact same level of daft.
Ok. Well that makes sense. Though I'm sure they still could've said the dead cops were corrupt - which they were - and killed by literally anyone else, and that Dent simply fell off the roof. But it's one of the things you just have to go along with.
There's also a sharp about turn from Alfred in this, who's virtually goading Bruce in TDK to "endure" as Batman, but now apparently claims he never wanted him to do it in the first place. But I'm going to put that down to senility.
Ok. Well that makes sense. Though I'm sure they still could've said the dead cops were corrupt - which they were - and killed by literally anyone else, and that Dent simply fell off the roof. But it's one of the things you just have to go along with.
There's also a sharp about turn from Alfred in this, who's virtually goading Bruce in TDK to "endure" as Batman, but now apparently claims he never wanted him to do it in the first place. But I'm going to put that down to senility.
It's alrite, my biggest gripe with TDK just happens to be this phone call
Rachel "It's okay Harvey, trust me, Waynes penthouse is the safest place in the city"
Big Bad Harv "Wait what, the place you were just thrown out of a window in.......oh right yeah, you already told me Bruce is Batman, ok I get ya, off you go and get kidnapped and blown up going to the safest place in the City"
Rachel "It's okay Harvey, trust me, Waynes penthouse is the safest place in the city"
Big Bad Harv "Wait what, the place you were just thrown out of a window in.......oh right yeah, you already told me Bruce is Batman, ok I get ya, off you go and get kidnapped and blown up going to the safest place in the City"
Even the famous pencil trick makes no sense. He says "d'you wanna see a magic trick?" before anyone stands up. If that bloke hadn't got up and gone over to him, would he have just said "No?..Really? Alright then."
That's obviously a very very small nitpick, but a hell of a lot of things happen in TDK because they just sort of need to happen. Like the guy guarding him from INSIDE the room. But you just need to sort of go with it. The good outweighs the bad because the good in these films far surpasses any other movie of it's genre.
Yeah. That was dumb. The whole time frame during the last 3rd of the film is unclear and dealt with bluntly (BAM! Ok, it's 5 months later now, but nothing's really happened, so don't worry about it) but that's a time constraint issue. There's no way anything more should've been added to this. It's overlong the 2nd time you watch it anyway.
That's obviously a very very small nitpick, but a hell of a lot of things happen in TDK because they just sort of need to happen. Like the guy guarding him from INSIDE the room. But you just need to sort of go with it. The good outweighs the bad because the good in these films far surpasses any other movie of it's genre.
Yeah. That was dumb. The whole time frame during the last 3rd of the film is unclear and dealt with bluntly (BAM! Ok, it's 5 months later now, but nothing's really happened, so don't worry about it) but that's a time constraint issue. There's no way anything more should've been added to this. It's overlong the 2nd time you watch it anyway.
I'm with others in that I took it to mean he wasn't born in that pit. The pit's just a prison. Again we don't need any more exposition. We didn't get any with the Joker, or the Scarecrow, or any of the non-Al Ghul villans.
It's odd, you point out plot holes in a Nolan film which everyone(well most) happily enjoys and rates quite highly and everyone joins in......do it on Michael Bay and you get slated for missing the point of the film "it's just a summer blockbuster damnit, just shut your mind off and enjoy!"
Despite the fact you could go on about Bay flaws and would probably crash the forums server.
Despite the fact you could go on about Bay flaws and would probably crash the forums server.
Atmosphere, effects and acting were all top-notch like the two films before it, but some elements of the plot let TDKR down a bit in my eyes.
Taking over Gotham and hanging around for 5 months seemingly doing nothing but waiting to be foiled seemed a bit silly for starters. It just came across as a very un-subtle way of giving Wayne a few months for some spiritual discovery in the prison in the end.
It was also silly writing off Bane as nothing more than a bodyguard at the end, as was keeping all the police alive and well underground (I still don't understand the reasoning behind that, why not just kill them?).
It was also silly writing off Bane as nothing more than a bodyguard at the end, as was keeping all the police alive and well underground (I still don't understand the reasoning behind that, why not just kill them?).
But, but... there was snow on the ground! It made it clear it was 5 months later
You're right, it is quite all over the place when Gotham is under siege, but you just need to keep an eye out for the TV in Bruce's cell, the news channel had a day countdown Good point about the villain back stories though, we didn't need to know about Bane's true background, like we didn't need to know about Jokers or the Scarecrow. We can believe what we see best here.
The only backlash about the Bane background I can imagine is from the comic fans as he truly was the one who was born and raised in a prison named Pena Dura.
The only backlash about the Bane background I can imagine is from the comic fans as he truly was the one who was born and raised in a prison named Pena Dura.
She went to Wayne's penthouse fine, spent the night there and give Alfred the letter in the morning after Bruce let Dent pretend to be Batman. It was on her way to meet Dent that she got kidnapped after the Joker gets caught.
Reminds me, that highway chase in TDK
Maybe I'm being a bit dumb, but something didn't sit right with me that I've not seen mentioned yet. Perhaps somebody could explain it if I missed something?
The stock exchange hostage scenario conincided with the Wayne stock gamble that ultimately bankrupted him. I assume these trades were made when Bane took over the stock exchange and made the trades with the tablet computer. Batman left the tablet computer on the floor with the goon he caught which must have provided some evidence! I know the trades were verified by Wayne's fingerprints but surely it couldn't have been too difficult to link it as part of the stock exchange hijack?
I know Bruce was at a low and didn't care about himself to a large extent but they seemed to give up a bit easily. It was kind of dismissed by Fox saying "you might be able to prove fraud eventually"
I know Bruce was at a low and didn't care about himself to a large extent but they seemed to give up a bit easily. It was kind of dismissed by Fox saying "you might be able to prove fraud eventually"
The timeline of the film is ridiculous
Why 8 years? Is 3 or 4 not enough? Bale certainly didn't look 8 years older, did he?
There's a six month gap between the opening scene and Bane arriving in Gotham.
Then we have a little 2 minute montage after all the explosions to account of 5 months of time passing by in Gotham.
There's a six month gap between the opening scene and Bane arriving in Gotham.
Then we have a little 2 minute montage after all the explosions to account of 5 months of time passing by in Gotham.
thats a good point
if they wanted to destroy Gotham why not just blast the place when they had it on their knees - if you are a criminal from the scarecrow to the common thugs why would you automatically be willing to wait 5 months (without booze) just to be incinerated by a bomb
if they wanted to destroy Gotham why not just blast the place when they had it on their knees - if you are a criminal from the scarecrow to the common thugs why would you automatically be willing to wait 5 months (without booze) just to be incinerated by a bomb
In amongst all the nitpicking, I haven't yet mentioned how fecking tremendous the football staidum scene was. It built up fantastically, looked great and took Bane over into full on psychopath territory.
Shame that scene was in the trailers... but then you can't blame the film makers for that.
Shame that scene was in the trailers... but then you can't blame the film makers for that.
We're nitpicking in a loving way though. Somehow!
That would be the highway chase where he spends the whole thing trying to kill everyone, when his actual plan is wanting to be caught? For someone who's supposedly an "agent of chaos" he has a hell of a lot of convoluted plans that rely entirely on luck.
The ending of this was far better than the ending of the other 2 IMO. The ferry & sonar things in TDK were very silly (I also like how Morgan Freeman has no problem with giving Batman - whose still talking in his silly Batman voice even though he knows who he is btw - a tank to "pancake cop cars" but tapping phones is waaaay outta line man!) ... The end of this was very satisfactory. It's the middly bits that drag. When Batman & Selina aren't in it, essentially.
I'm completely unclear on why it had to be 8 years. Presumably so..
Also to be fair, it is 7 years since Begins. So Bale actually has aged that much.
Reminds me, that highway chase in TDK
That would be the highway chase where he spends the whole thing trying to kill everyone, when his actual plan is wanting to be caught? For someone who's supposedly an "agent of chaos" he has a hell of a lot of convoluted plans that rely entirely on luck.
The ending of this was far better than the ending of the other 2 IMO. The ferry & sonar things in TDK were very silly (I also like how Morgan Freeman has no problem with giving Batman - whose still talking in his silly Batman voice even though he knows who he is btw - a tank to "pancake cop cars" but tapping phones is waaaay outta line man!) ... The end of this was very satisfactory. It's the middly bits that drag. When Batman & Selina aren't in it, essentially.
I'm completely unclear on why it had to be 8 years. Presumably so..
Blake was young enough to have met Bruce in an Orphanage & figured out he was Batman, whilst still being old enough to not be a shit teenage Robin
Also to be fair, it is 7 years since Begins. So Bale actually has aged that much.
Oh of course... nitpicking is always more fun then praising! Besides... I'm pretty sure everyone whose commenting the most generally really enjoyed the film... so any nitpicking is allowed.
That was the real letdown for me personally, as the film is one big elaborate yet drawn out plan for what really is an incredibly simple aim and method: steal a a nuclear bomb and blow up Gotham, the first of which they did rather quickly.
They explained (rather dismissively tbf) why that was the case during the whole..
That said, I've no idea how this fit into..
hope/pain/despair speech in the prison. They were torturing Gotham, and by extension Bruce, so that their "punishment was more severe"
That said, I've no idea how this fit into..
The fulfilment of Raas's plan. Or the social justice 99%ers angle. Or indeed why Talia waited until right at the very, very end to reveal herself as the mastermind. Though you could explain this I suppose by reasoning she was helpful as a mole in the secret underground resistance, and only broke cover when it was obvious Batman was back.
Ok, I've sold myself on that one, but I'm still unclear about why the "punishment" was part of Raas's plan. I suppose he wanted the world to watch while Gotham "tore itself to pieces" so it would act as a lesson and incentive to everyone else, so this was a ramped up version.
Ok, so I've sold myself on that one too, but I'm still unclear on how forcing them to do this, by way of occupation and threat was a legitimate way of doing that. Wasn't Raas's plan that it looked organic? And a result of their corruption and decadence? This just looked like terrorism.
So, essentially it seemed like an elaborate way of torturing Bruce specifically.
Ok, I've sold myself on that one, but I'm still unclear about why the "punishment" was part of Raas's plan. I suppose he wanted the world to watch while Gotham "tore itself to pieces" so it would act as a lesson and incentive to everyone else, so this was a ramped up version.
Ok, so I've sold myself on that one too, but I'm still unclear on how forcing them to do this, by way of occupation and threat was a legitimate way of doing that. Wasn't Raas's plan that it looked organic? And a result of their corruption and decadence? This just looked like terrorism.
So, essentially it seemed like an elaborate way of torturing Bruce specifically.
They had no idea it was going to blow in 5 months did they? I don't think bane ever told them that for obvious reasons, all they said was that a civilian had the detonator and it would be detonated if anyone tried to leave the city.
That's exactly what it was meant to be. This wasn't Ra's plan, this was Talia's plan. She taken ideas and the work that her father/League of Shadows had planned to do with Gotham, but she also wanted vengeance on Bruce for him murdering her father.
The LoS knew that Wayne didn't fear death anymore, it would of been simply to easy to blow everything up straight away. Talia wanted revenge on him and the best way to do that was to wreak chaos in Gotham and let it "tear itself to pieces" (so to speak) whilst Bruce was incapable of doing anything and had to watch the whole thing unfold. The one thing that Bruce cared about was being the guardian of Gotham, he had nothing else to live for at the start of TDKR because he couldn't even do that anymore, that's why it was the only way to truly punish him. It also makes sense of the "When Gotham is in ashes, you have my permission to die" line from Bane.
The LoS knew that Wayne didn't fear death anymore, it would of been simply to easy to blow everything up straight away. Talia wanted revenge on him and the best way to do that was to wreak chaos in Gotham and let it "tear itself to pieces" (so to speak) whilst Bruce was incapable of doing anything and had to watch the whole thing unfold. The one thing that Bruce cared about was being the guardian of Gotham, he had nothing else to live for at the start of TDKR because he couldn't even do that anymore, that's why it was the only way to truly punish him. It also makes sense of the "When Gotham is in ashes, you have my permission to die" line from Bane.
Oh and btw:
If they were all going to die when the nuke went off, i.e. Bane & Talia, who the hell was going to go and kill Bruce? Tom Conti certainly wasn't, he was training him up.
Oh and btw:
If they were all going to die when the nuke went off, i.e. Bane & Talia, who the hell was going to go and kill Bruce? Tom Conti certainly wasn't, he was training him up.
Perhaps they would have left just prior to the explosion, but couldn't due to Batman's return.
Nolan's movies always have loads of plot holes but he can get away with them since they are always so loud and emotional. Also, the fact that he comes across as some sort of super intelligent movie snob in his interviews makes the interwebs all the more motivated to pick stuff apart.
Was that scene between Wayne and Talia the closest he's ever come to a sex scene in one of his films?
On a complete tangent, I really liked the Catwoman music.
Wasn't the point of leaving them there to die? But Blake was feeding them to keep them alive
Anyone else found Talia's death scene absolutely hilarous, couldn't hold myself back the way she finished talking and then closed eyes instantly and died
The guy next to me in the cinema was with a chick and they were both cheering and pumping their fists in the air whenever batman did anything cool and they nearly lost it when Robin (feck you Christopher, his name is Dick) was "introduced", found that a bit lame too, even if it's just a obvious dumbing down so the common movie goer would know who they were tlaking about. Plus having the receptionist talk about how much she likes his actual name would be fun, too.
The guy next to me in the cinema was with a chick and they were both cheering and pumping their fists in the air whenever batman did anything cool and they nearly lost it when Robin (feck you Christopher, his name is Dick) was "introduced", found that a bit lame too, even if it's just a obvious dumbing down so the common movie goer would know who they were tlaking about. Plus having the receptionist talk about how much she likes his actual name would be fun, too.
No one in any semi-serious movie should ever be called Dick.
Though admittedly..
Though admittedly..
Having the very last words uttered in the widely acclaimed, hugely popular, self important Dark Knight Trilogy be "I like Dick" would be so hilariously trollsome it might almost be worth it.
Yeah that was hilarious, looked very unnatural. I imagine Nolan couldn't be arsed with doing another take.