Nigel De Jong

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Its fairly simple. De Jong is not some lousy thug of a midfielder like some posters here make him out to be. Does he have some tenacity and grit? Just as much as any good defensive midfielder should have. Some feel that signing him would not be ambitious and it wouldn't be sending out the right signal. We dont exactly have to buy high-profile players for every position and splash out cash just for the sake of it. Just a few aspects to consider. Will he improve our first team? How viable is his transfer? Will Van Gaal be able to utilize him well and bring the best out of him? I would answer yes to all of these questions. I don't care if this signing doesn't show our 'signal of intent' or if opposition fans mock us for it.

However, I do understand what most posters are getting at. No one is saying that he is going to be a mainstay in our midfield for the next decade or something. Our midfield lacks serious quality and its not like we are going to splash the cash on more than one high-quality midfield player this summer. I'd rather secure De Jong's signing and then look for another top notch midfielder who can take our midfield to the next level. Even then De Jong would probably still get into our team if we play a midfield of three. That's how bad our midfield is. So it would be an astute signing.
 
Bojan11 said:
Dirty thug? Yet Gustavo was sent off twice in his first three games for Wolfsburg, what does that make him?

Gustavo would also cost twice as much, so would Schneiderlin. Why spent that big on decent players? Id rather sign De Jong who could do the same job for half the price and somebody like Vidal.
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Getting sent off doesn't mean a player is dirty, breaking other players bones on more than one occasion usually does.

Twice as much as £9M is not a lot in today's market and should have no bearing on signing Vidal, plus Schniederlin is 5 years younger and under van Gaal could develop further.
 
Said back in January I'd take him here, great player to have in your team as you can rely on him to do the defensive side of things for sure and would massively benefit our other midfielders, especially considering we have an abundance of creative ones. Was great in City's title winning team too and had a good year at Milan despite most of their team being gash. Can't really go wrong at the low price quoted, it's from a shite source though so would be surprising if there's much in it.
 
Devil may care said:
You were complaining about me saying he was shite, I didn't say that and I was asking you if your view that I shouldn't be negative about players we are merely linked with extends beyond De Jong, considering all I have done is give a negative opinion on him and you were worried he might read it and lose confidence.

I seem the type? Weird, I do think that a top side needs one top player in defense, midfield and up top as well as a top class keeper, but in every position? No, if that were the case why did I suggest Schniederlin and Gustavo? decent players for sure but world class muppet dream buys? I don't think so.

Could De Jong do a job for us? Yes, however I have outlined the reasons I don't want him, he's a dirty thug and we can do better, and no I don't mean the Vidal's and such, I'm talking squad CM's like the ones I mentioned above.
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Schneiderlin wouldn't come cheap with Southampton desperately trying to hold onto their players and they don't need to sell. Luiz Gustavo will cost £20 mil given that is his release clause and Wolfsburg are in fine financial shape and don't need to sell as well. Hardly the amount you would want to pay for decent players. I understand you have concerns on De Jong but could you suggest a viable player who is at the level of De Jong and would be an improvement to our first team?
 
Devil may care said:
Getting sent off doesn't mean a player is dirty, breaking other players bones on more than one occasion usually does.

Twice as much as £9M is not a lot in today's market and should have no bearing on signing Vidal, plkus Schniederlin is 5 years younger and under van Gaal could develop further.
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De Jong has been sent off once in his career and Gustavo 7 times. So Gustavo is a clean saint, who can't do no wrong.

So Evans is a dirty thug? He flying kicked Drogba and injured Suart Holden, who has never recovered from that tackle.

I only recall the Ben Arfa tackle that he broke his bone and i have seen way worse tackles.
 
He'd be an incredibly underwhelming signing and we really should be targeting better players otherwise we'll struggle to get back into Europe. Yes he'd be an improvement but that's not exactly hard.
 
Joga Bonito said:
Schneiderlin wouldn't come cheap with Southampton desperately trying to hold onto their players and they don't need to sell. Luiz Gustavo will cost £20 mil given that is his release clause and Wolfsburg are in fine financial shape and don't need to sell as well. Hardly the amount you would want to pay for decent players. I understand you have concerns on De Jong but could you suggest a viable player who is at the level of De Jong and would be an improvement to our first team?
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By viable do you mean as cheap as this link suggests he'd be? As players costing £20M to be part of our main 5 CM's is viable for a club like United IMO, especially when you factor in the amount of games we usually play as well as injuries and LvG's love of a 3 man midfield and Carrick's age.
 
Devil may care said:
By viable do you mean as cheap as this link suggests he'd be? As players costing £20M to be part of our main 5 CM's is viable for a club like United IMO, especially when you factor in the amount of games we usually play as well as injuries and LvG's love of a 3 man midfield and Carrick's age.
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We spent £25m on Herrera. We Spent £27m on Fellaini. So doesn't make sense to spend £20m more on a player who will be a squad player.

We playing less games next season...
 
Bojan11 said:
De Jong has been sent off once in his career and Gustavo 7 times. So Gustavo is a clean saint, who can't do no wrong.

So Evans is a dirty thug? He flying kicked Drogba and injured Suart Holden, who has never recovered from that tackle.

I only recall the Ben Arfa tackle that he broke his bone and i have seen way worse tackles.
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You are so extreme, I never said Gustavo was a saint did I? I said being sent off multiple times doesn't make you a dirty player.

Evans on Holden was clearly a case of two players going in and it being mistimed. Evans flying kick was in the same mold though for sure, but Evans is far from a dirty player week to week and I think you know that, De Jong goes in with zero thought regularly and it's clear if you've seen him play on a regular basis.
 
Bojan11 said:
We spent £25m on Herrera. We Spent £27m on Fellaini. So doesn't make sense to spend £20m more on a player who will be a squad player.

We playing less games next season...
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We aren't buying players based on one season though and you are getting hung up on price, I could see why if we were talking mega money but a £20M squad CM who would likely play in excess of 30 games in a regular season for us and who is only 24 sounds like good business.
 
Devil may care said:
You are so extreme, I never said Gustavo was a saint did I? I said being sent off multiple times doesn't make you a dirty player.

Evans on Holden was clearly a case of two players going in and it being mistimed. Evans flying kick was in the same mold though for sure, but Evans is far from a dirty player week to week and I think you know that, De Jong goes in with zero thought regularly and it's clear if you've seen him play on a regular basis.
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Yet he's only been sent off once. You are basing this off a few incidents. I think you are the extreme. You saw his kick on Alonso and Ben Arfa tackle and calling him a dirty thug. Was he a dirty thug at the World Cup?

You do realise after the game Evans himself said it was a bad challenge, yet here you are arguing it. Even Evans admitted himself and apologised. Yet here you are defending him over it.

If he went in with zero thought regularly he'd be sent off regularly.
 
Bojan11 said:
Yet he's only been sent off once. You are basing this off a few incidents. I think you are the extreme. You saw his kick on Alonso and Ben Arfa tackle and calling him a dirty thug. Was he a dirty thug at the World Cup?

You do realise after the game Evans himself said it was a bad challenge, yet here you are arguing it. Even Evans admitted himself and apologised. Yet here you are defending him over it.

If he went in with zero thought regularly he'd be sent off regularly.
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I saw De Jong play most weeks for City and not many games passed by without him doing something spiteful in the tackle. No, at the World Cup he didn't do anything dirty that I noticed.

I said it was poorly timed, how is that defending it? I was simply arguing that Evans is not a dirty player and I think his reputation is proof of that.

Not necessarily, Diego Simeone was a dirty player but got away with a lot because he was also crafty.
 
Santos J said:
Said back in January I'd take him here, great player to have in your team as you can rely on him to do the defensive side of things for sure and would massively benefit our other midfielders, especially considering we have an abundance of creative ones. Was great in City's title winning team too and had a good year at Milan despite most of their team being gash. Can't really go wrong at the low price quoted, it's from a shite source though so would be surprising if there's much in it.
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People want us to make a signing that ''signals intent'', never mind what the team actually needs in light of the players we currently have or the fact that our most reliable midfield player is now so injury prone. The other thing is a player of De Jong's age will allow us to introduce the likes of Pearson, ease them in whilst he carries most of the defensive burden and by the time he is done hopefully they would have proven themselves adequate.
 
I wouldn't mind him alongside a quality signing like Vidal. He would bring some needed get into our team. I quite like him.
 
NoWinNoFee said:
Signing De Jong, when our rivals for these Champions League places (who finished 20+ points above us last season) are going out signing the likes of Fabregas/Sanchez/Costa, does it fill you with confidence going into next season?
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Yes.

------ De Jong ------
Herrera ------ Mata

If Herrera plays like he did for Bilbao, that's a midfield that could go toe to toe with any in the Prem right now.

LvG likes playing a system with a holding midfielder. With Carrick injured and Fletcher clearly past it we have no midfielders capable of playing in that holding role. What holding midfielders are out there that are better options than De Jong right now? He's better than William Carvalho (at present) and much more experienced, he's better than Luis Gustavo, Vidal wouldn't be bought to play in that role, Lars Bender is probably on a par but has never played in the Prem. Khedira is the only name that springs to mind, but again he's never played in the Prem, overpriced, and was poor for Madrid last season.

I'd go as far to say that De Jong is better than Matic and Flamini, and possibly even Fernando since he's only played in Portugal.
 
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hobbers said:
Yes.

------ De Jong ------
Herrera ------ Mata

If Herrera plays like he did for Bilbao, that's a midfield that could go toe to toe with any in the Prem right now.

LvG likes playing a system with a holding midfielder. With Carrick injured and Fletcher clearly past it we have no midfielders capable of playing in that holding role. What holding midfielders are out there that are better options than De Jong right now? He's better than William Carvalho (at present) and much more experienced, he's better than Luis Gustavo, Vidal wouldn't be bought to play in that role, Lars Bender is probably on a par but has never played in the Prem. Khedira is the only name that springs to mind, but again he's never played in the Prem, overpriced, and was poor for Madrid last season.

I'd go as far to say that De Jong is better than Matic and Flamini, and possibly even Fernando since he's only played in Portugal.
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I don't think Mata would work in that position. Maybe if we can set it up to be a 2 man midfield of Herrera-De Jong and Mata in front of them (and closer to the goal), that's when we are looking at utilising Mata at his best.
 
For under £10m it would probably be a good signing but still an underwhelming one. It's quite hard to get excited about signing De Jong.
 
saivet said:
For under £10m it would probably be a good signing but still an underwhelming one. It's quite hard to get excited about signing De Jong.
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To be fair not many natural defensive midfielders who'd make exciting signings well other than Javi Martinez he'd be brilliant.
 
coolredwine said:
I don't think Mata would work in that position. Maybe if we can set it up to be a 2 man midfield of Herrera-De Jong and Mata in front of them (and closer to the goal), that's when we are looking at utilising Mata at his best.
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Yeah exactly. You'd have De Jong covering the defence, Herrera playing box to box and Mata playing between Herrera and RVP. Same system LvG had with the Netherlands pre world-cup. De Jong anchoring, Strootman box to box, Sneijder playing off RVP.

----------- De Jong -----------
------ Herrera ----------------
---------------- Mata ----------
Januzaj ------------- Rooney
-------------- RVP -------------

If we got Vidal and De Jong, you're talking one of the scariest midfields in world football.

------------ De Jong ------------
------ Herrera --- Vidal --------
Mata ------------------ Januzaj
-------------- RVP ---------------
 
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Who gives a feck if it's 'underwhelming?' The idea of transfers is to strengthen your squad/team, not just to make the fans go all weak at the knees. This signing seems almost inevitable to me at this stage and while I looked down on the idea in the past, we could do a lot worse in terms of shielding the defence. We've arguably needed a player like this for a long while.
 
I'd love this signing. We'll have a pretty inexperienced backline trying to build a partnership next season. He'd give us a bit more protection.
 
walsh said:
Who gives a feck if it's 'underwhelming?' The idea of transfers is to strengthen your squad/team, not just to make the fans go all weak at the knees. This signing seems almost inevitable to me at this stage and while I looked down on the idea in the past, we could do a lot worse in terms of shielding the defence. We've arguably needed a player like this for a long while.
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This. Although I don't know much about him, this kind of player might proof very handy in our situation.
 
Devil may care said:
Oh come on man, you honestly think this was a squad that rivaled the Dutch squads in the last 20 years? They struggled like hell to beat Mexico and Costa Rica.

It doesn't work the same in a 38 game season, otherwise why are other squads wasting their money on proven quality when you can just stick mediocrity in a system and it'll trump everything, if it was system over talent then Southampton or Swansea would have won PL's in recent seasons, in the end it's the quality players that make the difference and you need at least one in each area of the team..
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They hit the bar 4 or 5 x against Costa Rica , they didn't strugle , they were unlucky .
 
At the very least, De Jong will put an end to the likes of Toure and Fernandinho jogging through our midfield at will without breaking a sweat. They'll actually come off the pitch knowing they played a game.
He's obviously somebody who relishes the physical stuff. I'd be pretty happy going into a game versus City (which is a decent benchmark) with Herrera and De Jong.

No more 3-0+ drubbings. I was pleased when I found out that City sold him, and he'd add another solid option for a certain type of game.
We'd all agree that another midfielder would still be needed, but I wouldn't mind this at all.
 
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Speak said:
At the very least, De Jong will put an end to the likes of Toure and Fernandinho jogging through our midfield at will without breaking a sweat. They'll actually come off the pitch knowing they played a game.
He's obviously somebody who relishes the physical stuff. I'd be pretty happy going into a game versus City (which is a decent benchmark) with Herrera and De Jong.

No more 3-0+ drubbings. I was pleased when I found out that City sold him, and he'd add another solid option for a certain type of game.
We'd all agree that another midfielder would still be needed, but I wouldn't mind this at all.
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Completely agree, would be a fantastic addition. I too was pleased when City sold him. He makes it hard for teams to play football in midfield and if we got him he would put a bit of much needed fear into options.
Toure and Fernandinho probably looked at out team sheet in midfield last year and laughed. It wouldn't be too easy for them with De Jong in there.
The prices flying around are decent too.
 
If De Jong is our only midfield signing then we are still one of the weakest big team midfields, it's as simple as that, fans have been crying out for more quality in midfield for years, i was reading threads last night and the majority agreed our midfield how it is now is mid-table quality even with bringing Herrera in.

Adding De Jong to that doesn't all of a sudden take it to a world class midfield or one of the best in the league, because De Jong is not a world class midfielder or anywhere near one the best midfielders.

Like a few people have said here, De Jong alongside another midfield signing (Carvalho/Vidal/Strootman) would be good, but if he's our last midfield signing then it's not resolving any issues what so ever and Manchester United will once again be going into the new season with a plaster over our cuts and after last season, let's be done patching ourselfs up and taking risks and going the cheap route.

Stop being tight arses and pay £8m-£10m more and sign fecking quality there.
 
FromTheBench said:
They had Strootman and Van Ginkel out or he might have paired those 2 in a 3 with a Clasie playing different sort of game plus i think the Dutch played with a more defensive counter attacking system than LVG would use at United. As his usual football is more possession based.

But then he has used a Gustavo before at Bayern so who knows. De Jong could do a job but would be a underwhelming signing and leave us needing one more midfielder probably.
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If LVG wants him he's knowledgable enough to realise he isn't the answer and I suspect he has other targets in mind anyway. Doesn't mean he won't be a good signing.

And he won't give a monkeys if the fans think its "underwhelming" if he thinks he's a player he wants, and nor should he. He's here to put a team together and while I'm sure he has some top players in mind he won't be going out just to sign "names" to please the fans.
 
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NoWinNoFee said:
If De Jong is our only midfield signing then we are still one of the weakest big team midfields, it's as simple as that, fans have been crying out for more quality in midfield for years, i was reading threads last night and the majority agreed our midfield how it is now is mid-table quality even with bringing Herrera in.

Adding De Jong to that doesn't all of a sudden take it to a world class midfield or one of the best in the league, because De Jong is not a world class midfielder or anywhere near one the best midfielders.

Like a few people have said here, De Jong alongside another midfield signing (Carvalho/Vidal/Strootman) would be good, but if he's our last midfield signing then it's not resolving any issues what so ever and Manchester United will once again be going into the new season with a plaster over our cuts and after last season, let's be done patching ourselfs up and taking risks and going the cheap route.

Pay £8-£10m more and sign fecking quality there.
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Why don't you wait and see if 1) he signs and 2) if so, whether anyone else comes in before having a meltdown based on "what if's".

It's evident there is money to spend. This is not a case of buying a player because he's cheap. If Van Gaal wants him it's because he believes he can do a job and be relied upon.

Some fans on here don't know what they want at times. They wanted Moyes gone and a top manager in. That's happened and there's already loads of moaning about players he might want to buy.

I think it's accepted by most that that Van Gaal is the right man to take us forward. His record suggests that's so as well. If he deems a player an appropriate signing I'd day he has a fair idea of what he wants to achieve.
 
NoWinNoFee said:
If De Jong is our only midfield signing then we are still one of the weakest big team midfields, it's as simple as that, fans have been crying out for more quality in midfield for years, i was reading threads last night and the majority agreed our midfield how it is now is mid-table quality even with bringing Herrera in.

Adding De Jong to that doesn't all of a sudden take it to a world class midfield or one of the best in the league, because De Jong is not a world class midfielder or anywhere near one the best midfielders.

Like a few people have said here, De Jong alongside another midfield signing (Carvalho/Vidal/Strootman) would be good, but if he's our last midfield signing then it's not resolving any issues what so ever and Manchester United will once again be going into the new season with a plaster over our cuts and after last season, let's be done patching ourselfs up and taking risks and going the cheap route.

Stop being tight arses and pay £8m-£10m more and sign fecking quality there.
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I agree with you. The obvious problem is that we might not be able to bring world-class midfielder this summer.
In fact, our midfield needs to be designed from the ground up. I would not be surprised if in 2 seasons all of Anderson, Fellaini, Cleverley and possibly Carrick would be gone.
 
NoWinNoFee said:
Stop being tight arses and pay £8m-£10m more and sign fecking quality there.
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We've spent ~£30m on a midfielder in each of the last two seasons and in both cases it can be easily argued that we "overpaid" so I don't think it has anything to do with being tight. I see no reason not to buy De Jong at this point. The fee is so small that it won't have any impact on our ability to bring in another top midfielder, he'll give us something that none of our other midfielders can offer, he'll make it easier to fit in all of our attacking players into one system and he knows exactly what van Gaal requires.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
That we trust our manager, a proven world class one at that.
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Bang on.

Basically a number of people don't want him because they don't like him - seemingly based on the fact that he's a "thug".

The reality is he performed well in the PL for City, has a shed load of caps, plenty of top level experience and is available for a decent fee - as well as offering something we don't have. Seems like a sensible bit of business to me.
 
I know he's ex City but I'm coming around to this one. Him and Herrera would be a pretty decent base for LvG's system. He's cheap, knows LvG and wouldn't be too fussed about being a squad player at times. It could be happening I reckon.
 
Brwned said:
We've spent ~£30m on a midfielder in each of the last two seasons and in both cases it can be easily argued that we "overpaid" so I don't think it has anything to do with being tight. I see no reason not to buy De Jong at this point. The fee is so small that it won't have any impact on our ability to bring in another top midfielder, he'll give us something that none of our other midfielders can offer, he'll make it easier to fit in all of our attacking players into one system and he knows exactly what van Gaal requires.
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We've over-paid last few transfers, but Manchester United is a club that's always haggled over fees and lost out on transfers because we didn't want to pay 3 to 5 million more, reports this week are saying we think £33m is too much for Vidal.

I agree with you, i see no reason not to buy De Jong, he'll be a good signing and you get the feeling it will probably happen because we are short there and like Felliani with Moyes, Allen with Rodgers, managers tend to bring someone with them, my concern is if he's our only signing there.
 
He's a decent player but he isn't going to get us back to the top, simple as that. We should be aiming a lot higher and I'd be very disappointed if he ended up being our next midfield singing.
 
NoWinNoFee said:
We've over-paid last few transfers, but Manchester United is a club that's always haggled over fees and lost out on transfers because we didn't want to pay 3 to 5 million more, reports this week are saying we think £33m is too much for Vidal.

I agree with you, i see no reason not to buy De Jong, he'll be a good signing and you get the feeling it will probably happen because we are short there and like Felliani with Moyes, Allen with Rodgers, managers tend to bring someone with them, my concern is if he's our only signing there.
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You really are a muppet.

Let's quote Andy Mitten. Man Utd want to sign players who want to play for them. Luke Shaw told us in January he wanted to play for us and we overpaid for him. Herrera was disappointed about his move breaking down and we paid his buyout.

We not haggling over fees. It's basically down to Vidal to force the move and we'd wait and see what happens when he's back in Italy. If Vidal wants the move and tells Juve then we will pay what it takes. What we won't do is overpay for players who don't want to be here just to satisfy transfer muppets.
 
Brwned said:
We've spent ~£30m on a midfielder in each of the last two seasons and in both cases it can be easily argued that we "overpaid" so I don't think it has anything to do with being tight.
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Still can't get over the the sum we paid for the toilet brush...insane money.
 
Bojan11 said:
Yet he's only been sent off once. You are basing this off a few incidents. I think you are the extreme. You saw his kick on Alonso and Ben Arfa tackle and calling him a dirty thug. Was he a dirty thug at the World Cup?

You do realise after the game Evans himself said it was a bad challenge, yet here you are arguing it. Even Evans admitted himself and apologised. Yet here you are defending him over it.

If he went in with zero thought regularly he'd be sent off regularly.
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De Jong is pure malice! Him and Van Bommel was perhaps the dirtiest world cup combo ever in 2010.

However, if we could get him for £8m or so, he'd fit us like a glove, and compliment the soft core of the likes of Herrera, Janujaz and Mata around him
 
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