Nigel De Jong

[gza the genius]

Its not too hard to find an upgrade on our present CM area & De Jong would be just that, in terms of metal. But with the money we have at our disposal - De Jong would be a disappointing signing. Its a cheap alternative like we've been doin for too many years in key areas..

I would agree with this, but only if De Jong is our only signing. We can't buy world class players only and De Jong would be a big step up from most of our midfielders currently. That said, he wouldn't solve all of our problems and we'd still need a Vidal/etc. Signing De Jong would make a lot of sense now that Carrick is confirmed to be out for a few months and he would certainly be an upgrade on the Carrick of last season.

 

[Castia]

City made a mistake in selling him though, all my City mates couldn't believe they got rid. As a pure DM he's decent, he protects the back 4 as well as anybody.

 

[Raoul]

I'd be quite pleased if we got De Jong and Vidal or Strootman and De Jong. Both would work well along with Herrera.

 

[NoWinNoFee]

If Van Gaal signs De Jong it would surely be because he trusts he can do the job that's required of him. That should be good enough for everyone.

When Mata signed for Manchester United and Rooney signed his new contract, they was told in the summer, revamp was happening/new players was coming and Manchester United was going to spend. I don't think De Jong, (a player in an area where we are desperate for quality) is a player they had in mind and the type of player that made them commit their futures to Manchester United.

In respect to Shaw and Herrera who may end up good signings, its the same with them too in a way, 1 is 18 years old and another is non-international footballer, they are unproven and with that It's like we aren't learning and still signing unproven and averages when right now Manchester United need to sign Vidals of the world.

Ii know it's hard without Champions League football, but money talks at the end of the day and if we don't spend, it will cost us more money losing out on Champions League football again or losing money cutting losses trying to rid ourselfs of averages we signed like Felliani and Bebe.

 

[iBoss]

So you rate Barry and Mikel?

No, I'd turn him down because he's a dirty thug, being aggressive is not the same thing but I sense you already know that.

Barry and Mikel obviously had something major to give working in the systems they worked in to be integral parts to a title winning side.

I'm sure you'd turn him down for being a 'thug' if he was one of the best players in the world. Same goes for divers I bet?

 

[Raoul]

When Mata signed for Manchester United and Rooney signed his new contract, they was told in the summer, revamp was happening/new players was coming and Manchester United was going to spend. I don't think De Jong, (a player in an area where we are desperate for quality) is a player they had in mind and the type of player that made them commit their futures to Manchester United.

In respect to Shaw and Herrera who may end up good signings, its the same with them too in a way, 1 is 18 years old and another is non-international footballer.

I think Moyes told them we are in for Kroos, there's a good chance we'll get him and more of that quality is on there way and they went 'where's the contract'.

It's like we aren't learning though and still signing unproven and averages when right now Manchester United need to sign Vidals of the world, i know it's hard without Champions League football, but money talks at the end of the day and if we don't spend, it will cost us more money losing out on Champions League football again or losing money cutting losses with the averages we signed like Felliani and Bebe.

What does Shaw being 18 and Herrera not being in the Spain squad have anything to do with their quality ? We obviously rate both of them highly.

Also, what makes you think Vidal will be our saviour ? Its not about individual players, its about the right players who can fit into Van Gaal's system. They can't all by Hollywood transfer muppet signings.

 

[Red Hand Devil]

Wenger trusted Flamini, look how that one turned out.

Flamini was doing feck all at Milan and Wenger bought him in for free and had him playing in big games. It was a good signing. Say what you want about Arsenal and where they finished, however you cannot deny Flamini added something to them. Had it not been for injuries to Walcott and Ramsey, the Flamini signing might have been seen as genius had Arsenal really held it together and pushed for the title.

If van Gaal signs De Jong, I fully back him.

Flamini has small-man syndrome - De Jong has kill small-men syndrome. As i said, it wouldnt be hard to find upgrades on our present CM, and De Jong would be a massive upgrade in the intimidation stakes - as Raoul mentioned. But we need more options in CM & not have to rely on the bare-bones like we always have done over the past few years.

The money's there, so if united get cheap in this window & there's no hard-on signings - it'll be another slog this season when it didnt have to be.

Why just scrape by with many average players upping their game by the odd %, because they want to play for the club? Get great players in & then get them to up their game even more. So what if players come for the money either. In time, they'll wish they'd been here all their careers.

Kompany went to City for the money no doubt, but that guy just oozes class - both on the field & off it. One of the soundest footballers the Prem has ever seen...

Still cant believe we let Vida go (Moyes fecked that one up & so did United) & even keep Rio for one more season too. Now we need to replace both & it looks like we'll be lucky to get 1 CB in..

Wait & see i guess..

 

[Devil may care]

Barry and Mikel obviously had something major to give working in the systems they worked in to be integral parts to a title winning side.

I'm sure you'd turn him down for being a 'thug' if he was one of the best players in the world. Same goes for divers I bet?

Yet both are routinely described as complete shit on here by the majority of posters who question how they still get picked, in the case of Mikel I've seen their own fans baffled by his inclusion despite multiple garbage performances per season. The idea that every player in a team that wins a title or cup must be good is flawed.

No because I'm a fecking hypocrite like every football fan, I'd only draw the line at the likes of Suarez in that regard or if the player was a menace off the field like Barton or Bowyer, and I don't really give a shit about diving as nearly every forward does it these days.

 

[Devil may care]

What does Shaw being 18 and Herrera not being in the Spain squad have anything to do with their quality ? We obviously rate both of them highly.

Also, what makes you think Vidal will be our saviour ? Its not about individual players, its about the right players who can fit into Van Gaal's system. They can't all by Hollywood transfer muppet signings.

The system still needs quality in the positions to implement it with success, if you look at LvG's other big club 11's he didn't operate with mediocrity in his vaunted system, every successful team needs big time players in it to win a league, we have big game forwards but lack top quality in midfield and defense.

 

[Bojan11]

I don't mind us signing him. He won't cost a lot certainly not £27m.

We spent that much on a midfielder who should do the job that De Jong does. Which is win the ball back and give it to the better players.

 

[iBoss]

Yet both are routinely described as complete shit on here by the majority of posters who question how they still get picked, in the case of Mikel I've seen their own fans baffled by his inclusion despite multiple garbage performances per season. The idea that every player in a team that wins a title or cup must be good is flawed.

No because I'm a fecking hypocrite like every football fan, I'd only draw the line at the likes of Suarez in that regard or if the player was a menace off the field like Barton or Bowyer, and I don't really give a shit about diving as nearly every forward does it these days.

I said integral players who play week in week out. How is that flawed? They obviously have some quality if they are starting week in week out for a team that ends up as champions.

Barry was excellent last season, and everyone on here admitted it.

 

[NoWinNoFee]

What does Shaw being 18 and Herrera not being in the Spain squad have anything to do with their quality ? We obviously rate both of them highly.

Also, what makes you think Vidal will be our saviour ? Its not about individual players, its about the right players who can fit into Van Gaal's system. They can't all by Hollywood transfer muppet signings.

I've edited my post mate from the last one you quoted.

Point is, the Real Madrid's/Barcelona's/Manchester City's sign the best players, proven players and just look at what they achieve - They aren't spending much more than us either on these players.

Yet Manchester United sign young/unproven/average or punts all the time and without Sir Alex and doing this all the time its come back to kick us in the backside and we finished 7th. Us finishing 7th, you'd think the penny would have dropped, talk of Kroos during last season and signing Mata in January you think it as.

Yet what are we doing now:-

Shaw - only 1 season under his belt and unproven
Herrera - whilst looks quality, is 25 and non-international

And this thread is about De Jong - Surplus to requirements at Manchester City yet people are like at the prospect of the signing him.

Its like the club as not learned and the fans have not learned, we need to aim higher, LVG called Manchester United the biggest club in the world, fecking prove it is what i say, sign some of the biggest names in the world for the biggest club world if you think that.

 

[Canuckred64]

If Van Gaal signs De Jong it would surely be because he trusts he can do the job that's required of him. That should be good enough for everyone.

I know De Jong is a decent player and will improve the side, but we need more than decent players, we need to buy top quality players like Vidal, Di Maria or Hummels. If we don't we have no chance of wining the Premier or the Champions League anytime soon. The longer we put off spending the money that is needed, the greater the chance we will pull a Liverpool and spend years in the wilderness.

 

[Devil may care]

I said integral players who play week in week out. How is that flawed? They obviously have some quality if they are starting week in week out for a team that ends up as champions.

Barry was excellent last season, and everyone on here admitted it.

Sometimes a manager has a weak link but can't get the option he wants so they make do, I mean if we are going to get so acute every player plying their trade in any of the top leagues in the world has a decent level of ability despite what fans might say, but championship winners can carry an average player at times, Dugarry for France and Hoewedes playing as a LB for Germany, both far from great at their respective tournaments but both with WC medals as there weren't other options at the time.

 

[iBoss]

I've edited my post mate from the last one you quoted.

Point is, the Real Madrid's/Barcelona's/Manchester City's sign the best players, proven players and just look at what they achieve - They aren't spending much more than us either on these players.

Yet difference is Manchester United sign young/unproven/average or punts all the time and without Sir Alex, doing this all the time as come back to kick us in the backside and we finished 7th. Us finishing 7th, you'd think the penny would have dropped, talk of Kroos during last season and signing Mata in January you think it as.

Yet what do we do:-

Shaw - only 1 season under his belt and unproven
Herrera - whilst looks quality, is 25 and non-international

And this thread is about De Jong - Surplus to requirements at Manchester City yet people are like at the prospect of the signing him.

The club as not learned and the fans have not learned, we need to aim higher, LVG called Manchester United the biggest club in the world, fecking prove it is what i say, sign some of the biggest names in the world for the biggest club world if you think that.

Did we not try for Sanchez before his Barca move? Hazard when he was at Lille? Fabregas when he was at Barca? Did we not sign Mata and RVP?

City sign proven players all the time? Fernandinho - Shakhtar, Nastasic - Fiorentina, Demichelis - Atletico (stopgap). All played a decent amount last season for a City side that won the title.

 

[Raoul]

The system still needs quality in the positions to implement it with success, if you look at LvG's other big club 11's he didn't operate with mediocrity in his vaunted system, every successful team needs big time players in it to win a league, we have big game forwards but lack top quality in midfield and defense.

Ok lets look at some of the players in Van Gaal's 09 Bayern side - a year when they won the league, the German FA Cup, and finished runners up in the Champions league.

How many of the following would you rate as world beaters ?

Daniel van Buyten
Ivica Olic
Anatoliy Timoshchuk
Holger Badstuber
Hans Jorg Butt
Hamit Altintop
Mark van Bommel

Here's a list of everyone who came to Bayern in 09


4DF

Edson Braafheid 27EU Twente TransferSummer2013 € 2M
13DF

Andreas Görlitz 28EU Karlsruher SC Loan return Summer 2010n/a
10MF

Arjen Robben 26EU Real Madrid Transfer Summer 2013€24M
23DF

Danijel Pranjić 28EU Heerenveen TransferSummer 2012€7.7M
44MF

Anatoliy Tymoshchuk 31EU Zenit St. Petersburg TransferSummer 2012 €11M
11FW

Ivica Olic 30EU Hamburger SV End of contract Summer2012 Free
33FW

Mario Gómez 24EU VfB Stuttgart Transfer Summer 2013 €35m
26DF

Diego Contento 20EU Youth system Promoted Winter 2011n/a
27MF

David Alaba 17EU Youth system Promoted Winter TBA n/a
32MF

Mehmet Ekici 20

 

[Bojan11]

Having a go at Herrera because he can't get in the Spanish side.

Shaw is 18 and already one of the best left backs in the country. Chelsea wanted him. You'd be moaning if he went to them.

 

[NoWinNoFee]

Having a go at Herrera because he can't get in the Spanish side.

Shaw is 18 and already one of the best left backs in the country. Chelsea wanted him. You'd be moaning if he went to them.

Do you get my point at all? Surely you must do.

 

[iBoss]

Sometimes a manager has a weak link but can't get the option he wants so they make do, I mean if we are going to get so acute every player plying their trade in any of the top leagues in the world has a decent level of ability despite what fans might say, but championship winners can carry an average player at times, Dugarry for France and Hoewedes playing as a LB for Germany, both far from great at their respective tournaments but both with WC medals as there weren't other options at the time.

League campaigns are 38 games long. Very rarely does a player start most of the games and is 'carried' by the rest. Even players like O'Shea for us did a very good job and deserved his place in title winning sides.

De Jong was quite obviously a good and vital player for City, you cannot even argue against that.

 

[beergod]

I will admit that I never considered him signing for us until recently. He isn't a signing that will ever excite fans, but I think a player of his type is needed. Someone has to carry the water for this side.

I would rather have him than an overpriced player (Carvalho) coming off of one very good season.

 

[Bojan11]

I know De Jong is a decent player and will improve the side, but we need more than decent players, we need to buy top quality players like Vidal, Di Maria or Hummels. If we don't we have no chance of wining the Premier or the Champions League anytime soon. The longer we put off spending the money that is needed, the greater the chance we will pull a Liverpool and spend years in the wilderness.

De Jong fits a role in the squad we don't have.

Fellaini is useless and not a DM. Cleverley isn't a DM. Carrick isn't and Fletcher is done.

If we can get him on the cheap and get rid of a few of the above players then I wouldn't mind him.

 

[Raoul]

I know De Jong is a decent player and will improve the side, but we need more than decent players, we need to buy top quality players like Vidal, Di Maria or Hummels. If we don't we have no chance of wining the Premier or the Champions League anytime soon. The longer we put off spending the money that is needed, the greater the chance we will pull a Liverpool and spend years in the wilderness.

We do need top quality players, but i feel as fans we are too obsessed with hollywood / transfer muppet names without actually evaluating whether a given player is truly available and whether they fit into Van Gaal's system. If a player has the quality and his available, then we would surely buy them.

 

[Devil may care]

Ok lets look at some of the players in Van Gaal's 09 Bayern side.

How many of the following would you rate as world beaters ?

Daniel van Buyten
Ivica Olic
Anatoliy Timoshchuk
Holger Badstuber
Hans Jorg Butt
Hamit Altintop
Mark van Bommel

Here's a list of everyone who came to Bayern in 09 - a year when they won the league, the German FA Cup, and finished runners up in the Champions league.


4DF

Edson Braafheid27EUTwente TransferSummer2013€ 2M
13DF

Andreas Görlitz28EUKarlsruher SCLoan returnSummer2010n/a
10MF

Arjen Robben26EUReal Madrid TransferSummer2013€24M
23DF

Danijel Pranjić28EUHeerenveen TransferSummer2012€7.7M
44MF

Anatoliy Tymoshchuk31EUZenit St. PetersburgTransferSummer2012€11M
11FW

Ivica Olic30EUHamburger SV

End of contractSummer2012Free
33FW

Mario Gómez24EUVfB StuttgartTransferSummer2013€35m
26DF

Diego Contento20EUYouth systemPromotedWinter2011n/a
27MF

David Alaba17EUYouth systemPromotedWinterTBAn/a
32MF

Mehmet Ekici20

The team had Robben, Schwienstieger, Muller and Ribery as starters though, and Van Bommel was a good player as is Badstuber and Van Buyten was a decent squad CB. the starting 11 for that Bayern was certainly superior to our current starting 11 and had two top CM's and two top wingers, we don't have one top player in either position.

 

[Bojan11]

I will admit that I never considered him signing for us until recently. He isn't a signing that will ever excite fans, but I think a player of his type is needed. Someone has to carry the water for this side.

I would rather have him than an overpriced player (Carvalho) coming off of one very good season.

Exactly.

Name me a DM that excites fans? I think DMs are the least exciting signings, but they valuable to have in a squad.

 

[Devil may care]

League campaigns are 38 games long. Very rarely does a player start most of the games and is 'carried' by the rest. Even players like O'Shea for us did a very good job and deserved his place in title winning sides.

De Jong was quite obviously a good and vital player for City, you cannot even argue against that.

To me when you play in a team or teams that win multiple titles and you are a big part of it then you are proving something. De Jong was sold the summer directly after they won the PL so the manager obviously didn't think he was that integral and it couldn't have been about money no matter what anyone says, City and crazy wages are common bed fellows.

 

[Raoul]

The team had Robben, Schwienstieger, Muller and Ribery as starters though, and Van Bommel was a good player as is Badstuber and Van Buyten was a decent squad CB. the starting 11 for that Bayern was certainly superior to our current starting 11 and had two top CM's and two top wingers, we don't have one top player in either position.

And we have Mata, Rooney, and RvP.

Muller, Kroos, Alaba, and Badstuber were youth system player who Van Gaal promoted so no marquee signings there.

 

[iBoss]

To me when you play in a team or teams that win multiple titles and you are a big part of it then you are proving something. De Jong was sold the summer directly after they won the PL so the manager obviously didn't think he was that integral and it couldn't have been about money no matter what anyone says, City and crazy wages are common bed fellows.

Ask any City fan for their opinion on De Jong.

Just admit he was a good player, what's wrong with you

 

[NoWinNoFee]

De Jong fits a role in the squad we don't have.

Fellaini is useless and not a DM. Cleverley isn't a DM. Carrick isn't and Fletcher is done.

If we can get him on the cheap and get rid of a few of the above players then I wouldn't mind him.

Missing out on Champions League football again for Manchester United is unthinkable.

Signing De Jong, when our rivals for these Champions League places (who finished 20+ points above us last season) are going out signing the likes of Fabregas/Sanchez/Costa, does it fill you with confidence going into next season?

May i also remind you, not only did we finish 7th but we've also lost Vidic/Rio/Giggs/possibly Evra/Buttner and Carrick for 3 months and at the moment only signed 2 players, so are a lot weaker than last season while our rivals are stronger.

Put it this way, if we sign De Jong and lose out on Champions League football again, we'd fecking deserve missing out.

 

[Devil may care]

And we have Mata, Rooney, and RvP.

Muller, Kroos, Alaba, and Badstuber were youth system player who Van Gaal promoted so no marquee signings there.

Two #10's who are in each others way and an injury prone striker vs two of the best wingers in the world and two top CM's, they had way more balance than we have as far as quality goes, we don't have a top CM at all at this point and no wide options anywhere close to the caliber of Ribery and Robben.

 

[Red Hand Devil]

When Mata signed for Manchester United and Rooney signed his new contract, they was told in the summer, revamp was happening/new players was coming and Manchester United was going to spend. I don't think De Jong, (a player in an area where we are desperate for quality) is a player they had in mind and the type of player that made them commit their futures to Manchester United.

In respect to Shaw and Herrera who may end up good signings, its the same with them too in a way, 1 is 18 years old and another is non-international footballer, they are unproven and with that It's like we aren't learning and still signing unproven and averages when right now Manchester United need to sign Vidals of the world.

Ii know it's hard without Champions League football, but money talks at the end of the day and if we don't spend, it will cost us more money losing out on Champions League football again or losing money cutting losses trying to rid ourselfs of averages we signed like Felliani and Bebe.

Brucie wasnt an International player either & he's an United legend & we all love the fella for what he did for the club. Those 2 late headers against Wednesday sparked the catalyst for us believing we could win the league that season & then we went on a roll.

Look how many players that have international player status & actually assess them if they're United class. You only have to look at the players that have played for England over the years & many of them wouldnt even make our squad - nevermind the bench.

Sorry for picking up on that one point, but its an important one to refer to man. You only have to play one game to be referred to as an international. We've many internationals in the squad & many of them are utter shite.

I'm not ganging up on ya either mate - i hate that. I agree with the rest of your post though - apart from Shaw. He's already one of the best LB's in Europe & he's only 18 - there's no negativity about that fella whatsover.

We need a massive injection of top-class talent - no question about that, but as Van said in his presser yest - he's not gonna dip in for atleast 4 weeks til his squad assessment has finished.

I cant honestly believe that, because by then, anyone thats top-class & available will have decided to stay at the respective clubs or will have been transferred to other clubs & we'll also find ourselves up against much improved top 4 squads in the Prem, than we did last season too..

Van Gaal may have a magic-wand when it comes to gettin the best out of players - just like Fergie did, but with many of our squad - you can polish a turd all day long, but at the end of that day - its still a turd & it'll stink the house out as usual..

 

[Raoul]

Two #10's who are in each others way and an injury prone striker vs two of the best wingers in the world and two top CM's, they had way more balance than we have as far as quality goes, we don't have a top CM at all at this point and no wide options anywhere close to the caliber of Ribery and Robben.

So are you saying RvP and Rooney aren't quality players ? If so, you're seriously clutching at straws hoping to stay afloat in this thread.

 

[Devil may care]

Ask any City fan for their opinion on De Jong.

Just admit he was a good player, what's wrong with you

You just seem to be looking to take this somewhere it doesn't need to go. I think he's an average player who is also a dirty thug, and it's funny how your idea that being in a side that won the title validates your view that he's good, and yet that same manager getting rid of that player immediately following the title win is somehow not validity that maybe he wasn't that important after all and isn't that good.

 

[Raoul]

Missing out on Champions League football again for Manchester United is unthinkable.

Signing De Jong, when our rivals for these Champions League places (who finished 20+ points above us last season) are going out signing the likes of Fabregas/Sanchez/Costa, does it fill you with confidence going into next season?

May i also remind you, not only did we finish 7th but we've also lost Vidic/Rio/Giggs/possibly Evra/Buttner and Carrick for 3 months and at the moment only signed 2 players, so are a lot weaker than last season while our rivals are stronger.

I'm sorry but if we sign De Jong and lose out on Champions League football again, we'd fecking deserve missing out.

There are plenty of precedents of teams doing well in the biggest European leagues despite not having world beater names at every position. Its about the system, not how well your happen to recognize a transfers name and how good it makes you feel about yourself when you realize we've signed a well known player.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

To me when you play in a team or teams that win multiple titles and you are a big part of it then you are proving something. De Jong was sold the summer directly after they won the PL so the manager obviously didn't think he was that integral and it couldn't have been about money no matter what anyone says, City and crazy wages are common bed fellows.

And was mostly a substitute in the season they won the league.

 

[Devil may care]

So are you saying RvP and Rooney aren't quality players ? If so, you're seriously clutching at straws hoping to stay afloat in this thread.

No, I'm saying we need the same level of quality in Midfield, the wings and defense like Bayern had when Van Gaal managed them.

 

[Raoul]

You just seem to be looking to take this somewhere it doesn't need to go. I think he's an average player who is also a dirty thug, and it's funny how your idea that being in a side that won the title validates your view that he's good, and yet that same manager getting rid of that player immediately following the title win is somehow not validity that maybe he wasn't that important after all and isn't that good.

Clearly Van Gaal disagrees, as he selected him to what was a successful Dutch side, as did his predecessor in 2010 when they came within a hair of winning it.

 

[Bojan11]

Missing out on Champions League football again for Manchester United is unthinkable.

Signing De Jong, when our rivals for these Champions League places (who finished 20+ points above us last season) are going out signing the likes of Fabregas/Sanchez/Costa, does it fill you with confidence going into next season?

May i also remind you, not only did we finish 7th but we've also lost Vidic/Rio/Giggs/possibly Evra/Buttner and Carrick for 3 months and at the moment only signed 2 players, so are a lot weaker than last season while our rivals are stronger.

May I remind you we have a coach who knows what he is fecking doing now. Do you honestly think our home form will be bad as it was last year under Van Gaal?

Yeah, Buttner was a big loss. I am still in tears. Shaw is a direct replacement for Evra and I think he'd do a better job than Evra did last year.

Rio was a liability. Only one I would consider a loss out of those players is Vidic.

Stop crying and come back 1st September ffs. Then see who we signed.

 

[Raoul]

No, I'm saying we need the same level of quality in Midfield, the wings and defense like Bayern had when Van Gaal managed them.

The trouble is your definition of quality is linked to how transfer hyped a player is - not what Van Gaal's assessment of what he wants in his side.

 

[Canuckred64]

I accept that De Jong would add to the team and that you can't have top quality all over the pitch. If De Jong is just one of LVG additions this summer than fine, but if De Jong is the only addition we make to the midfield the rest of the transfer window we will have a battle on our hands to finish in the top four.

 

[Devil may care]

Clearly Van Gaal disagrees, as he selected him to what was a successful Dutch side, as did his predecessor in 2010 when they came within a hair of winning it.

In managing the Dutch team van Gaal had limitations on who he could select that he doesn't when it comes to managing us, and if Strootman hadn't been injured then who knows how much we'd have even seen De Jong in this WC.