Look at who his competition was. Jonathan De Guzman started their first two matches.
Nigel De Jong
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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Look at who his competition was. Jonathan De Guzman started their first two matches.
They replaced him with Garcia. They regressed.
Fact is, he was a vital player in a team that won the PL. He is a good player.
I'm done with this.
Not his fault is it.
We already have plenty of midfielders who are not top quality. Why bring in another?
He stared 11 matches that season.
Since De Jong was in the 2010 squad, its unlikely he wouldn't have missed out here - Strootman or not.
No it has nothing to do with how hyped a player is, I mentioned Morgan Schniederlin earlier and Gustavo, how hyped are they? And really if we can't have a view on a players quality because a random rag has suggested that De Jong is a target then what is the point of the forum? Most here didn't want Young or Fellaini and didn't think they were United quality, despite how many games they may have played I'd say that was a fair enough POV to take.
Van Gaal doesn't play on the pitch and if you think Van Gaal is going to solve all the problems with hardly any signings, shit roses and can make Messi's of Ashley Young's/Vidals of Fellaini's then you're in for a shock mate.
We need players, quality players.
Did you read what he said? He said he wouldn't mind De Jong if we signed another world class midfielder alongside him.
If LvG wants to run his system, he's likely to want players he knows and trusts can work within it. Its not so much about individual players as much as it is about the whole being greater than than the sum of the parts.
Being in a squad 4 years earlier is not a guarantee of anything and I wasn't saying he wouldn't make the squad, I meant he probably wouldn't have started the way he did, plus almost everyone agreed this was the worst Dutch squad in years, I mean look at the CM competition, I wouldn't want any of them near a United shirt and it has nothing to do with transfer hype and everything to do with watching Holland's 7 games.
What? So you don't think having a very good manager this season will make a difference?
Remember we went from 1st to 7th and Moyes didn't play on the pitch. Not did Fergie.
Like I said quit moaning and come back 1st September.
The worst Dutch squad in years ? They just finished 3rd at the WC.
Just because you don't recognize the names in the Dutch squad doesn't mean they couldn't do well - which they did. Apply the same logic to United.
We need a De Jong type of player no doubt Jizz
& as i mentioned previously, i'd love us to sign both him & Carvalho. Carvalho would be my 1st choice out of the 2, but both would give us exceptional tactical & defensive options - especially considering our CB's are mid-table class at best - bar Evans, but he's on the treatment table more times than Darren "Sicknote" Anderton ever was & he even has a plague dedicated to him on said table..Basically players you rate - irrespective of what Van Gaal thinks.
I'm not surprised since the fact arrived directly after that he only started 11 games in the season you are saying he was integral in them winning the PL.
I was thinking of the previous year (they finished 3rd), my mistake.
The worst Dutch squad in years ? They just finished 3rd at the WC.
Just because you don't recognize the names in the Dutch squad doesn't mean they couldn't do well - which they did. Apply the same logic to United.
Oh come on man, you honestly think this was a squad that rivaled the Dutch squads in the last 20 years? They struggled like hell to beat Mexico and Costa Rica.
It doesn't work the same in a 38 game season, otherwise why are other squads wasting their money on proven quality when you can just stick mediocrity in a system and it'll trump everything, if it was system over talent then Southampton or Swansea would have won PL's in recent seasons, in the end it's the quality players that make the difference and you need at least one in each area of the team..
My earlier posts in the thread agree with what you are saying. What I was saying here is that I am acknowledging that De Jong is better than what we have and if LVG brings him in he must have some faith in him. However, if De Jong does come in, I hope we bring in a couple of other better players as well.
England and Italy were awful as well and Uruguay are reliant on Suarez who didn't play against Costa Rica. This was a very entertaining WC but bar Germany most of the big nations had their poorest sides in years.
You're going by name recognition of their past players rather than results. Van Basten Gullit, Rijkaard, Bergkamp, Davids, RvN, De Boers - how could this side with only three well known players possibly match the "great Dutch sides of the past". How about looking at results instead - this side managed 3rd, the previous one 2nd. They didn't even fecking make the WC in 2002 FFS.
How about taking in the context of how poor a lot of the teams were at this WC and how the failure of those previous Dutch squads was down to in-fighting among the players, you are trying to make it black and white Raoul when it's far from that.
The worst Dutch squad in years ? They just finished 3rd at the WC.
Just because you don't recognize the names in the Dutch squad doesn't mean they couldn't do well - which they did. Apply the same logic to United.
On paper it was Raoul, but it was the best team they've had in years more importantly & thats what Van Gaal brings to United - Unity & brotherhood, like Fergie did.
I still hold out in hope that Fergie will become Ireland manager one day. I thought he might be up for it before O'Neill got it, but still being part of United too of course.
And yes - i am a dreamer, but we all gotta have nice dreams from time to time. That is one of my better one's
I'm not even sure what he does at United as a director either, or how much influence he has. Gill's a director also - what influence does he have aswell? Sure both of them are part-timers (at best) in their roles now?!
Awful as well?
So are you saying this Dutch side was awful?
Oh god, laughing smilies, I thought they were a bore to watch if it hadn't been for Robben, functional yes, but that was about it bar the surreal game vs Spain. I thought van Gaal's tactics and the team spirit gave them a great WC, much like an FA Cup run.
So you have no trust in a manager like Van Gaal if he brings De Jong to the club?
This isn't David Moyes people for crying out loud. We got a guy who knows what he is doing, so have some trust.
So now we have to agree with every player LvG brings in? That sounds like RAWK. We are linked with many players and people give views on them, this place wouldn't function during the summer if we didn't.
History doesn't care about infighting 6 or 7 WCs ago, it only records how teams placed.
And there are poor teams in most WCs so that's not much of a point - France got bounced in the group stages in 2002 after winning it in 98, and again in 2010 after being a finalist in 06. There are probably loads of other examples.
If we didn't have Carrick, I'd see the point in signing De Jong, as a DM who can sit in front of the back 4 behind Herrera + Vidal/Strootman/Signing and spell them in certain games or against weaker teams.
But I think Carrick can fill that role.
De Jong is a good player, but I sort of think he'll age badly. He's more athletic than the average DM, and that will go soon. Good at simple passing, but that's it. Don't really see the point unless it's on a free.
But I think Carrick can fill that role.
De Jong is a good player, but I sort of think he'll age badly. He's more athletic than the average DM, and that will go soon. Good at simple passing, but that's it. Don't really see the point unless it's on a free.
History is a bunch of numbers and stats, I'm not American so I don't think of things in purely statistical terms, especially not when I watched the events and have an opinion.
I don't think in the 24 years of World Cups I've watched I've seen so many average teams from the top countries like Brazil, Italy, France, England and yes even Argentina and Holland. The general consensus was that it was a very entertaining WC, I agree, but that it was lacking the quality teams of previous ones bar Germany.
This is all getting blown up way beyond what it should be though at this point. We were linked with De Jong by a random rumour site, my view is he's a dirty thug and average CM and I hope we don't sign him. I've said that about other players but for some reason saying it about De Jong has led me into a situation where I have had to defend my view as if it were wildly controversial.
RAWK?
Yes, we should welcome any players you don't rate by saying he is shit. Ruin his confidence before he's even played a game for him.
Any players who signs for us I'd give them the benefit of doubt. If LVG signs De Jong for us, I will back him and suggest you do too. And judge him when he's played games for us.
And I've said my piece on De Jong. He'd do the job Fellaini is supposed to do. But he'd actually do it and would be cheaper. I'd want him as long as we sign another midfielder. With Carricks injury, I feel we need two midfielders and we not going to sign two world class midfielders. Vidal and De Jong, I'd be delighted.
I doubt any players are reading this forum.
What the feck is that supposed to mean?
Yes RAWK, they think you should agree with everything the club do and posts disagreeing are not allowed.
So every player we are linked with I should be nice about? Remember at this point have not bought him, we are linked to him by some random rumour site, nothing more. I also never said hew was shite and lastly any player who's confidence would be rocked by posts on a message board would never make it at any football club, I doubt any top players inhabit these sites, they are too busy banging their model girlfriend and counting their money.
I've seen De Jong play for years, my view of him wont change just because LvG bought him.
Flamini had a great start to the season with Arsenal in that defensive midfield role, I think De Jong could do a very good job for us even if it is only for a year or two, I'd love to see him here.
I've spoken to many American sports fans over the years and almost all of them rate greatness in stats, they care more about percentages than they do about great moments and play. The trend these days of obsessing over passing stats comes from that, a CM who passes it 5 yards left and right all game and gets 90% pass completion stats is lauded, while the player with 70% pass completion is criticized even though it doesn't take into account what he attempted to do with the ball when he had it and if despite the passing stats he had 2 of those 70% create openings that led to a goal.
Where did I say we linked with?
You seem the type who wants us to sign world class players in every position. Yet, when have we ever done that?
Do you not think someone like De Jong will be a good squad player to have around? I'd take him ahead of any of our current midfielders besides Herrera.
Nobody is saying oh we should sign De Jong and he should start for us. De Jong would be a good short term signing especially with Carrick injured and we don't know what Carrick will show up.
You were complaining about me saying he was shite, I didn't say that and I was asking you if your view that I shouldn't be negative about players we are merely linked with extends beyond De Jong, considering all I have done is give a negative opinion on him and you were worried he might read it and lose confidence.
I seem the type? Weird, I do think that a top side needs one top player in defense, midfield and up top as well as a top class keeper, but in every position? No, if that were the case why did I suggest Schniederlin and Gustavo? decent players for sure but world class muppet dream buys? I don't think so.
Could De Jong do a job for us? Yes, however I have outlined the reasons I don't want him, he's a dirty thug and we can do better, and no I don't mean the Vidal's and such, I'm talking squad CM's like the ones I mentioned above.
Dirty thug? Yet Gustavo was sent off twice in his first three games for Wolfsburg, what does that make him?
Gustavo would also cost twice as much, so would Schneiderlin. Why spent that big on decent players? Id rather sign De Jong who could do the same job for half the price and somebody like Vidal.
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