If he wants the move he should push for it now, I'd imagine there would be higher quality defenders available in the summer.
Nicolas Otamendi | City Player
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Where did you get this from? Valência doesn't play 3-5-2. They play in the same system Nuno has always used as a manager of Rio Ave. Mostly 4-3-3 and 4-4-2. The most defensive setup he has played was in the Copa del Rey with a 5-3-2 but it was only once. As for Otamendi i've never seen him play in 3-5-2. At Porto he played in a clear 4-5-1 with 4-4-2 variations when Porto was chasing results. Perhaps Otamendi can play in 3-5-2 but i've never seen him play in that setup.
Way to miss the point entirely. His, not mine. He's asking for players who have proven themselves as more than just 6 months of form, I said Hummels and Godin are about the only ones that applies to
Hummels is more than 6 months of form
Oh and by the way, the United rumor today in Portugal is Indi again. It's in the cover of Record newspaper i saw in the morning
They've played 3 at the back a couple of times now usually Mustafi-Otamendi-Orban
They've been playing a back 3 recently.
http://www.zonalmarking.net/2015/01...-at-the-back-and-push-the-wing-backs-forward/
Yes but that's not a 3-5-2. That's a clear 5-3-2 mate. And it was with Vezo, Mustafi and Otamendi also
Just read this and you will understand his system and the respective variations
http://www.superdeporte.es/valencia/2015/01/19/valencia-anti-sistema/246097.html
Again, it's not costumary and that's not a 3-5-2 (although it does have 3 in the back), it's a defensive 5-3-2, that he also used at Rio Ave when he played against Porto, Sporting and Benfica. Bottom line he likes to play mostly with 4 in the back and that's the vast majority of his games.
I've seen Otamendi maybe half a dozen times this season. Looked fine, but to be honest didnt really jump out at me.
However there's a dearth of top level centre backs in Europe. Which means whoever we buy will either be in the 'solid' category or the 'potential' category. And since our main 4 centre backs don't really fall in either of those groups right now, I'd be happy with a bid.
However there's a dearth of top level centre backs in Europe. Which means whoever we buy will either be in the 'solid' category or the 'potential' category. And since our main 4 centre backs don't really fall in either of those groups right now, I'd be happy with a bid.
I agree with Ekeke that he is quality. I just think that the price tag is too much. But since he is an essencial player at Valência and you're dealing with Lim and Mendes, you would have to play close to that ammount if you really want him.
Its definitely not a 5-3-2, it was very attacking, as Valencia have been all season. As Cox puts it...
Eh Cox said it but it's his opinion. My opinion was that it was a 5-3-2 that become more offensive because of Real Madrid's goal. It's also the spanish pundits opinion, you just have to read the link i've put from Valencian sport newspaper about Nuno's tactical variations and there's not a single mention of 3-5-2. But of course a defensive 5-3-2 against a big team can easily turn into a 3-5-2 when chasing a result.
Jesus what is shot shit. There's 3 at the back and one on each side that goes forward and back.
3CB at the back is the important bit.
3CB at the back is the important bit.
Maybe someone have already asked, but could somebody who have seen this player a lot describe his strengths and weaknesses?
Will he be the best defender in our squad if we get him?
Will he be the best defender in our squad if we get him?
No one was disputing that it's three in the back. I said it was a 5-3-2 and not a 3-5-2 and that's a very diferent tactical setup. The point is 90% of the times they play with 4 in the back.
All of gaals defensive targets will have experience in 352. If this guy does the business. Bring him in
Well Rojo didn't. I don't even understand the obsession with 3-5-2 since the system doesn't even work at United. Should be 4 in the back in my opinion.
The only difference between a 352 and 532 is one of intention. Essentially, are you treating your wingbacks as attackers or defenders? If you think Valencia have been playing defensively, so be it, but I dont agree with you.
Get on the phone and tell him, then il personally thank you if he doesn't play it any longer this season.
Agree about the intention part and i would add opponents and objectives in the game. I think both of us are right mate. I mean he started defensively with a 5-3-2 since they were playing Real Madrid and the wingbacks were mostly defensive. But with Madrid's goal the wingbacks became more offensive converting into a attacking 3-5-2. If you analyze Espanyol vs Valência for the Copa del Rey where they were defending a first leg 2-1 win, Valência was also playing a defensive 5-3-2 that due to contingencies of the game can be changed into a more offensive setup. I consider Nuno Espírito Santo a defensive manager. He's part of the Mourinho portuguese school of disciples. But i agree that he has been playing a more attacking football at Valência. Obviously he has more resources than at Rio Ave who was a small club.
I posted some stats on the amount of aerial duels he's won, in comparison to other centre backs
Is Van Gaal looking for an Otemendi - Rojo partnership then, because judging on the way people have described Otamendi, they wouldn't really compliment each other.
If you're spending 25 plus million on a centre back, although it's not my money, surely it should be someone who can come in and compliment the centre backs we've got already. I don't think Van Gaal's the type of character to rush into things, but the Otamendi rumour seems very strange to me.
The way I see it, we have 4 first choice centre backs at the moment.
Jones - No nonsense
Rojo - No nonsense
Evans - Reader (not shown it of late, but he falls into that category more than the no nonsense)
Smalling - Reader
So from the list above, I would look to get rid of Evans, which means we should ideally be replacing him with someone who is composed at the back, and reads the game well - someone like Rio. Therefore, we can have two centre back partnerships that bring, both aggression and calmness. For example, Smalling and Rojo (who have looked decent in the few times they've played together) or Jones and ?. That question mark wouldn't be Otamendi, in my opinion, as I don't think he'd compliment Jones's playing style.
If you're spending 25 plus million on a centre back, although it's not my money, surely it should be someone who can come in and compliment the centre backs we've got already. I don't think Van Gaal's the type of character to rush into things, but the Otamendi rumour seems very strange to me.
The way I see it, we have 4 first choice centre backs at the moment.
Jones - No nonsense
Rojo - No nonsense
Evans - Reader (not shown it of late, but he falls into that category more than the no nonsense)
Smalling - Reader
So from the list above, I would look to get rid of Evans, which means we should ideally be replacing him with someone who is composed at the back, and reads the game well - someone like Rio. Therefore, we can have two centre back partnerships that bring, both aggression and calmness. For example, Smalling and Rojo (who have looked decent in the few times they've played together) or Jones and ?. That question mark wouldn't be Otamendi, in my opinion, as I don't think he'd compliment Jones's playing style.
Indi is shite.
To be perfectly honest, I'd say none of our defenders have a guaranteed place. Rojo is the closest, but that's partly because he's new, and can also play LB. An ideal partnership of course has both a ball player and a ball winner in it, but its not like Evans and Rojo are so good that we should be building our defence around them.
If we're spending that much, I'd rather we went for Godin.
I always appreciated him a lot, he's very consistent, tough, good on the ball, and a goalscorer to boot. I think he's always been a tad underrated, even by Porto fans. His height is usually pointed out but I don't think that has ever been an issue with him, with good positioning and impulsion. I thought it was an atrocious mistake selling him mid-season last year, and in my opinion it cost us the title (well, we wouldn't win anyway, but lost it quicker). We were relatively close to Benfica and Sporting by then, and defensive blunders the following weeks allowed them to get away from us.
That said, I never know how to answer the "good enough for United" thing. With CBs I think it's even harder to judge. I didn't look at him as someone worthy of a top-5 club in Europe, but after he left I realized how much better than our other CBs he was.
That's a fair assessment. Regarding his sale, there wasn't much Porto could have done to be fair. His contract was running out, he was doing some mistakes and wanted to leave. I remember reading Porto's forum and saying that although they rated Otamendi, it would be best to sell him since he was having motivation issues after winning almost everything and was becoming sloppy. The problem was not replacing him adequately. Besides he always said that he wanted to play in Spain (which is understandable for South Americans from spanish speaking countries).
Heh i agree it's hard to answer that "good enough for United" question, specially with the standarts of the current United defence.
I know what you mean, but it's not Porto's tradition to sell players in January and I look at it as a mistake, if not then, then before. Unless we're forced into by a release clause. Last year it was Lucho and Otamendi, and I think the later hurt us more.
Half of Porto's forum agrees by default with whatever is being done by the people at the helm, that means little
I remember being against it there and not being the only one by any means.Half of Porto's forum agrees by default with whatever is being done by the people at the helm, that means little
Well the people at the helm haven't been wrong many times to be fair
You have to agree that Otamendi in the year he was sold wasn't exactly playing up to his standarts. But like i've said in previous posts, i consider him one of the best center backs that have passed through Portugal in the recent years. And looking at the names that have played here, it's a pretty big praise. I'd put him slightly bellow Garay who was class at Benfica.Pointless signing if true especially for that amount, we might aswell try for godin, varane or laporte.
I know what you mean, but it's not Porto's tradition to sell players in January and I look at it as a mistake, if not then, then before. Unless we're forced into by a release clause. Last year it was Lucho and Otamendi, and I think the later hurt us more.
Half of Porto's forum agrees by default with whatever is being done by the people at the helm, that means little
Don't want to differ from this thread too much, but have to ask how good has Danilo been this season for you? Are Danilo and Alex Sandro the next you might sell?
If that bid was turned down and we are increasing it, we might as well just pay the money for Laporte. I'd prefer him to Otamendi, as good as the latter has been this season. Both would actually be nice, considering Smalling and Evans seem to unable to improve their performances.
Danilo has been great, his best season by far. I think Alex Sandro is more talented, but Danilo's workrate and perseverance has been closing the gap every year and I'd say he's the better player now. And yes, I think either of them are likely to be sold relatively soon, they've been here for a while.
Thanks!
How much do you think you'll be wanting for Danilo?
Cheers for the info Arruda.
For that money I'd far rather Godin.
Yup, from what I have read about him on here I'm not convinced.
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