I don't see why Real cannot buy both Kante and Pogba. Kovacic and James out, Kante and Pogba in. Casemiro and Isco are essentially squad players. Nobody will care about protecting their minutes. That would leave Real with Pogba-Modric-Kroos-Kante in some rotation in the regular three midfield spots, with Casemiro and Isco making up the numbers in case of injury.
N'Golo Kante | Off to Chelsea
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That seems toi be the case, all oif the CM's we have been linked with are in the creative, rather than defensive, mold.
Which is reasonable and fair on Schneiderlin in particular - we shouldn't throw him out on the kerb before giving him a chance to show us what made us sign him.
Agreed,Casemiro is right now the only defensive midfielder in the team.It would be reasonable to get another one,with or without Pogba
Would y'all not take Kante for £20m right now if he were available? I think he'd immediately improve United's midfield in a way we haven't seen in a long, long time. I'd bite Leicester's hand off for a fair bit more than £20m.
Fosu Mensah looks like a class player with tremendous upside. He should be working into the first team this coming season, no doubt about that. I don't think it's "age discrimination" (
) to suggest he isn't ready yet to hammer down the role of the best defensive midfielder at one of the biggest clubs in the world. He looked class but naive. That's not his fault or even a problem. He could still be brought through if he's as good as you think he already is. Sure, it's risking another Pogba-type scenario, but it wouldn't be inevitable. You can count on one hand how many players were as effective as Kante was last season, and might have some fingers left at that. Limited or not, no one--absolutely no one--has his sphere of influence in the midfield in the EPL last year. If he could repeat that through the rest of his prime, he would be undeniably world class. The best screening player on the books right now is Carrick. Despite the quality between his ears, his body will soon give up on him. He doesn't have a proven heir apparent. FM isn't there yet, and we aren't really sure yet what Schneiderlin really is. Do you risk a gap in that capability if someone of Kante's caliber is available? I wouldn't.
I don't his limited passing matters. He's competent on the ball. What he does is keep the opposition from using the ball how they want and get it back for you. Put him in a three man midfield, and he gives you the ability to attack with four+ players without the normal risk.
I couldn't care less that he's not a once in a generation box-to-box or orchestrating midfielder. I don't care that he'll never pass like the other one or two midfielders he plays with--let alone Scholes. Some of the other nine outfield players can pick that up for him. I think he's probably a component worthy of a place in a world class midfield.
I dread, absolutely dread seeing Kante go to a club other than Manchester United. I'd really hate to see him go to Arsenal, City or Liverpool.
I personally trust in Mourinho, our manager with all our transfer. I maintain that if it's me I will get Kante myself. However, I don't like the idea of forcing transfer on our manager. Not under SAF, not under Moyes, not even on LVG, despite the fact all 3 did make some terrible decision on transfer. So I will do the same with Mourinho. If Mourinho see Kante, not fit his midfield dynamic, that's fine. So money is not a thing here, if Mourinho want Pogba and he is attainable for over 100 mil, then we just do it. If Mourinho doesn't want a player, even a player is a free agent, we should stay clear.Would y'all not take Kante for £20m right now if he were available? I think he'd immediately improve United's midfield in a way we haven't seen in a long, long time. I'd bite Leicester's hand off for a fair bit more than £20m.
Fosu Mensah looks like a class player with tremendous upside. He should be working into the first team this coming season, no doubt about that. I don't think it's "age discrimination" (
You can count on one hand how many players were as effective as Kante was last season, and might have some fingers left at that. Limited or not, no one--absolutely no one--has his sphere of influence in the midfield in the EPL last year. If he could repeat that through the rest of his prime, he would be undeniably world class. The best screening player on the books right now is Carrick. Despite the quality between his ears, his body will soon give up on him. He doesn't have a proven heir apparent. FM isn't there yet, and we aren't really sure yet what Schneiderlin really is. Do you risk a gap in that capability if someone of Kante's caliber is available? I wouldn't.
I don't his limited passing matters. He's competent on the ball. What he does is keep the opposition from using the ball how they want and get it back for you. Put him in a three man midfield, and he gives you the ability to attack with four+ players without the normal risk.
I couldn't care less that he's not a once in a generation box-to-box or orchestrating midfielder. I don't care that he'll never pass like the other one or two midfielders he plays with--let alone Scholes. Some of the other nine outfield players can pick that up for him. I think he's probably a component worthy of a place in a world class midfield.
I dread, absolutely dread seeing Kante go to a club other than Manchester United. I'd really hate to see him go to Arsenal, City or Liverpool.
If the quoted figures are close to being true it would mean that we can get Kante for the same amount we can sell Schneiderlin for. Which would be a great deal and a huge upgrade. Of course it's up to Jose if he feels the same way.
Hypothetically of course, were we not to go for Kante (not sure we've even been linked), and were Jose to resist relying upon Schneid, Schwein, or Carrick, who is available in that role who is both gettable and possessing the quality required for a team chasing titles year in year out. I have to admit I haven't watched Kante all too often, though I have been impressed with what I've heard. I'm not saying we need him or anything (having not watched him closely I feel I have the self restraint not to descend into muppetism ), I'm more interested in hearing who is available and good enough to fulfil that role in a team like ours. It doesn't seem, to me at least, that there are many players around of his quality in that position who would be available.
), I'm more interested in hearing who is available and good enough to fulfil that role in a team like ours. It doesn't seem, to me at least, that there are many players around of his quality in that position who would be available.Well, of course. Most of that goes without saying. This forum is for fans like you and I, privy to nothing and deciding nothing. The only way we'll end up close to a decision is getting lost on a tour and ending up in the boardroom.
I think there's a little bit of a retreat in your post, though. You went from rating what type of buy Kante would be for a series of clubs--to include United--to deferring to the manager. Obviously you have an opinion on buying Kante outside of what Mourinho thinks.
Mourinho probably would have veto power--official or not--either way. Even without a DoF, there is some sort of strategic continuity with the board. Woodward and Mourinho will sort out transfers together. Surely they collaborate. I don't see Kante being forced on him--certainly not by you and I! (Having a laugh there)
Even if he weren't someone Mourinho listed to target, that wouldn't necessarily be enough to sensibly rule Kante out. With Kante at 25 and given Mourinho's history, there should probably be some overarching transfer strategy beyond just what Mourinho wants in this potential transfer. Ferguson is gone and times are different. I see transfer strategy shifting a bit toward the board as being a necessary way to adapt until Mourinho or a successor can build the tenure to command continuity.
So, yeah, from my lowly perspective: sign him. Make it happen barring a well thought out veto from a stakeholder.
Edit: Fixed some auto correct. A recent update of my phone's OS went full retard.
People need to stop with the TFM and Kante comparisons. They have absolutely nothing in common except their skin color.
We are comparing an 18 year old rash right back/center back who has played mere minutes to a player who has shown great quality with his positioning, reading of the game, passing and tackling for the eventual premier league champions.
We are comparing an 18 year old rash right back/center back who has played mere minutes to a player who has shown great quality with his positioning, reading of the game, passing and tackling for the eventual premier league champions.
It's not a retreat. It's a discussion about what type of a player is, how hypothetically he can be used? In this case, I maintain that I don't see a Makelele in Kante. Kante is very new in this Makelele role and he does well the first games for France. Then showed his inexperience in game vs Ireland. Kante in style is like Essien - Keano (not level of performance), and occupy the similar role to Essien and Keane. So here I am saying Kante is not very similar to Mourinho's any preferred midfielders in the past, nor the role in midfield 3 seeing in the other teams I listed in the post you first quoted me.
Barcelona, Busquet as the deep lying role, Iniesta, Rakitic for the #8/#6 role. Real found their winning formula in Casemiro s deep lying role with Modric and Kroos in #8/#6 role. Chelsea Matic or whoever Conte would sign (Naigolan, Witsel...) in deep lying role, Fabregas as #8/#6 role, Hazard may be there #10 if Conte went with his 5 in the back formation. Arsenal has a bunch of different options in deep lying roles a and the #8/#6 role, even the #10. You should start to see the pattern. It's Kante lack of attacking/ play making attribute for the #6 is he problem. With Mourinho always preferred a deep lying midfielder (not Kante role), his #6/#8 should offer more attacking quality. Here not saying Kante is useless attacking, but his known level is IMO not on the level that fit the role. Kante if move here may end up as a sub for game when need to be more defensive than attacking, aka Mikel which is a waste for Kante himself and pointless for us.
Again point is not I don't want Kante or I know Mourinho plan. I just see how sensible it is that so far Mourinho has not been showing great interest. Similar can be said about Mane. I believe Mane fits LVG's plan perfectly. I see Mane can be useful for Mourinho in some circumstances and be a very good player, but Mane is not Mourinho's preferred type. With Mourinho, I hope we can finally enjoy back the signings to be used for the original plan/ purpose, than signing and hope to mold them into a different role like under Moyes (Mata & Fellaini) and many of LVG's signing.
I don't think Schneiderlin as a solution for the deep lying midfielder for us. For what it's worth, Schneiderlin may not be a starter, but as he is qualified for as home grown, in long term it's worth keeping him for some circumstances which fits his game while save that extra squad slot for another non homegrown, as he's already here.
I am one of those who throwing TFM in every chance. Just saying, TFM is well known to be defensive midfielder. With his physique and physical attribute, it understandably people can see he fits Mourinho's liking. With he is only a youngster, it's sensible that Mourinho can use him situationally and drop him more easier than spend money buying a sub.
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This lad is world class. Throw him in as a box to box enforcer and you've got the closest thing to Edgar Davids that you can find. Yes, his passing is iffy and can't shoot for toffee, but he's good with the ball at his feet. He's not going around giving it away at every opportunity. Set him aside with 2 midfielders who'll do all fancy passing, you have yourself a winner. Only reason I don't want him is I hope he stays at Leicester, if he does want to leave, we should get him here ASAP. Jose would absolutely love him. A smaller more industrious essien? Who wouldn't.
I know it's early on. But France play better without him against teams that sit back.
They'd need him against Germany.
They'd need him against Germany.
Because there is no need for both him and Matuidi. Play only Kante and they would look even better as Kante is a better player.
Kante would never play the pass Mathuidi did to Giroud.
And he was also one of their best players vs Ireland. He has more in his locker going forward.
Someone's underrating Matuidi. If anything Matuidi has the Fletcher's big game magic aura about him, while doing not too bad in a right system vs inferior team. Time will tell, I guess.
I just firmly believe he's not the midfielder that we need the most. If we signed Pogba first then I'd be all for it, but Kante is not an alternative to Pogba.
Just because he keeps it simple doesnt mean he isnt capable of more, thats his role and its better for the team if he does it - more simplicity in the game means more chances for creative players to pick the right pass.
And that pass from Matuidi is nothing special IMO, a pretty classic over the top pass where defence feck it up.
Kante had a lovely long pass at Mahrez when Mahrez had his hattrick against Swansea. Kante is capable of good passing.
Don't see him going to us when Leicester have Champions League football. If he does leave, it will be to another team with CL football.
I suppose you could say "Well, Mkhitaryan left Dortmund and they had CL"... but that was a unique case. I hear he's a childhood United fan and it was his dream, blah blah blah.
Would like Kante here but only if Pogba absolutely doesn't want to come back. Pogba is my #1 transfer wish right now.
I suppose you could say "Well, Mkhitaryan left Dortmund and they had CL"... but that was a unique case. I hear he's a childhood United fan and it was his dream, blah blah blah.
Would like Kante here but only if Pogba absolutely doesn't want to come back. Pogba is my #1 transfer wish right now.
Kante would run here from Leicester if he thought we'd sign him, and he's capable of that he can run like a horse!
I actually think its possible he could do it.
Loved the Edgar Davids comparison from @RooneyLegend (I think it was? Literally can't be bothered to scroll up the screen to see if I',m right or not...). He does remind me of Davids game.
Is there any indication at all that he wants to leave?
Pardon my ignorance guys, but who is TFM?
Fosu Mensah
Ah thank you. For some reason, I thought he was a full back. Haven't seen much United games recently.
So far in the 1st team he's played RB & CB, but most see his future as a centre midfielder
So with this SF game, Deschamps pretty much shares my view, eh?
Despite being labeled as pragmatic, Deschamps shows that he reads the game well, and can make hard decision (play Pogba and Muitidi without defensive oriented midfielder).
Matuidi and Pogba as 2 box to box midfielders have been delivering the balance, fluidity in France system/ Ever since that Kante sub, Deschamp has stuck with this system and it bears fruit/ Pogba and Matuidi really both up their games which they couldn't for some reason with Kante behind them.
Kante may be good in certain system, circumstances but overall a hard player to utilize if you want fluid football and play on front foot. The way he plays his game (running alot), may step into his teammates' foot, especially in game where the opponent stay compact and kill space.
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Problem with the 3 in midfield was it put Griezmann out wide, isolating Giroud up top and needing Payet to do something out of nothing. Dont think its due to the midfield improving. Griezmann, frances best player, playing in his best position is the biggest difference
That's another discussion. You don't need to look at Griezmann, Giroud to see there was problem. Pogba and Matuidi the first few games + Ireland before Kante was off couldn't play their best game too. France right wing with Cissokho arguably still provide little going forward, but the system turns out well oiled.
It's like with RVN last season with us vs Saha before he turned perma-crocked. RVN offered more end product but with him, we were predictable and rigid in running the game with pretty much same system and players. With Saha, Rooney and Giggs had more space to play. Rooney despite a drought spell (similar to Cissokho provides nothing) still contributed to the team play. Scholes Giggs and Ronaldo kicked up on another gear...
You may say it's about player form... but I would counter argue that in football, chemistry between player can produce strange great improvement. A little chance can help a team clicks. Giroud the first few game were very close too other French players. He is not isolated in term of distance between his teammates, couldn't get into game. Last 2 and half games, he played in his best form, providing the desired performance as target man (Owned Boateng then Mustafi and Howedes at times being isolated in term of distance from teammates)
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Fee agreed with Chelsea for 35 million euros.Leicester will make another contract offer to him like vardy and arsenal. Lets see.
Hope Mourinho snipes it.
Replacement for Matic?
Think he would more than likely play next to Matic with Fabregas in the 10 (if they play 352)
Could be a tough back 5 to get through.
Don't Chelsea lack depth at the back to play a 3-5-2 though? If they do as you say (Matic&Kante)
At a guess
Courtious
Ivanovic - Terry - Cahill
Willian - Kante - Matic - Azpilicueta
Fabregas
Costa - Hazard
Ivanovic - Terry - Cahill
Willian - Kante - Matic - Azpilicueta
Fabregas
Costa - Hazard
To be honest I don't think that's a great side at all. Zouma will come back from injury, but it's such a slow back 3 without him.
Throw in a fit Zouma and potentially Koulibaly whom they've been heavily linked with and it looks rather good.
At least his position is being posted correctly in this thread, unlike the one in Pogba's.
Kante is a very good player, but if needed, TFM could grow into a similar kind of player. At the moment in time, I don't believe Kante is the kind of player we need but would be great at Chelsea.
Kante is a very good player, but if needed, TFM could grow into a similar kind of player. At the moment in time, I don't believe Kante is the kind of player we need but would be great at Chelsea.
I agree, Azpilicueta would need replacing as well and don't know how well Hazard would work up front.
If the price is correct, that’s a bargain. 25 y/o with 4 yrs left on his current contract, one of the best players in the Prem last season.
He'd fit Conte's style like a glove. His insane interception rate of last season will probably be matched by how diligent and hardworking Conte will have his side playing.
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