Neymar joins PSG on a five year deal

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Real and Barca got there by investing massively in the past with cumulative losses of several hundred million euros at a time when football was way cheaper. Accounts don't lie.

Signing players dont alone win you championships. Oil clibs have a broken naive perspective on this.

Barcelona were not a big spending club and thereason for their past success were down to their la masia academy and philosophilosophical fooballing principles, Same cant be said about real madrid though.
 
Real, Barca. These clubs make profit each season. Laughable to compare them to PSG.
You mean they fraud taxes and the taxpayers pay for Real Madrid? Thats as big a shame if not bigger.
 
I get the feeling Neymar would prefer to stay, but only if he gets a massive pay rise I.e. In line with Messi. All said and done, don't think Barca can afford that.
 
Signing players dont alone win you championships. Oil clibs have a broken naive perspective on this.

Barcelona were not a big spending club and thereason for their past success were down to their la masia academy and philosophilosophical fooballing principles, Same cant be said about real madrid though.

Look at those Van Gaal sides that won titles and how signing Ronaldinho turned them into an elite side again. Heck their last treble was mainly down to adding Neymar and Suarez to Messi. Barca are not always carried by La Masia.
 
Look at those Van Gaal sides that won titles and how signing Ronaldinho turned them into an elite side again. Heck their last treble was mainly down to adding Neymar and Suarez to Messi. Barca are not always carried by La Masia.

Barca made Ronaldinho the best player in the world. He wasn't when he came. He cost 30m. Not that much.
 
Barca made Ronaldinho the best player in the world. He wasn't when he came. He cost 30m. Not that much.

I don't know if that's true necessarily. We were fortunate at the time to have had Becks use the club to get his deal with RM, else we'd have missed out on Ronnie right when his game took off - I'd say they both equally helped eachother become the best. And the club was still licking their wounds from Figo's exit, they were in a mess when Laporta came in and changed the history of the club. Ronnie, Pep & return to La Masia.
 
Barca made Ronaldinho the best player in the world. He wasn't when he came. He cost 30m. Not that much.


Was more to do with him coming into his peak than anything Barca did for him, if anything they didn't do much to keep his drive going
 
I understand that you felt attacked because you support PSG, but it is what it is. PSG's attitude towards the market, and their intent to not cultivate the success, but to buy it is toxic for football. Investing 650m. into one player is toxic for football and more of a lunacy than anything I've seen so far in 20 years watching the sport.

Barcelona and Real Madrid are two of the biggest brands in football. But they are so much more than buying expensive players. A Qatar owned club can never understand that. Ever. It's not only about buying.

I'm relax :)

A club has generally between 25 and 30 professional players. PSG version Qatar makes between 1 and 4 major acquisitions per year since 2011. So, I don't buy the story "PSG destroys World Football".

Barcelona and Neymar agreed on a contract including specific clauses. In a certain sense, the ongoing scenario was expected.

In terms of business philosophy, I don't see the difference between Real Madrid and PSG (both clubs target stars or promising talents)... or between Chelsea, City and PSG...

At the end of the process, the money of Qatar will strengthen the financial power of "big brands"...but also small clubs.

There are 2 markets: one for 99.99% of the players and another one for the 5-7 mega stars or promising players.
 
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Barca made Ronaldinho the best player in the world. He wasn't when he came. He cost 30m. Not that much.

He was already WC winner before he joined Barcelona and PSG had a coach who sometimes sent him on the bench :rolleyes:

He wasn't consistent but delivered many world-class performances.

Nowadays, French clubs know how to sell a player at the right price!
 
Real, Barca. These clubs make profit each season. Laughable to compare them to PSG.

The strategy of Qatar is pretty sample. This country acquired PSG in 2011 for...50 millions of euros (lol).

1st step: you win the Champions League and develop the "brand PSG internationnally". Financial losses. The initial plan was to win the ECL before 2016 but it's delayed...

2nd step: they will make money as everybody. Value creation in the long run.

Their business plan is comprised of 2 sections.
 
Signing players dont alone win you championships. Oil clibs have a broken naive perspective on this.

Barcelona were not a big spending club and thereason for their past success were down to their la masia academy and philosophilosophical fooballing principles, Same cant be said about real madrid though.
Barcelona has always been a big spending club and paid world record fees in the past but you're right that their biggest successes came when some exceptional academy products added to their expensive stars.

There's no hard divide between "oil clubs" and others. PSG (and I think City too) is developing all the areas a truly global club needs: the academy, the infrastructure, the marketing, and of course the big signings in order to become a massive, self-sufficient club. In fact they're doing a much better job than sugar daddies of the past like Berlusconi or Moratti who left the Milan clubs in shambles when they weren't able anymore to buy success through big money signings only.
 
The strategy of Qatar is pretty sample. This country acquired PSG in 2011 for...50 millions of euros (lol).

1st step: you win the Champions League and develop the "brand PSG internationnally". Financial losses. The initial plan was to win the ECL before 2016 but it's delayed...

2nd step: they will make money as everybody. Value creation in the long run.

Their business plan is comprised of 2 sections.


They don't want the money, they don't need it, they already have it.
Too much of it. They can't enjoy it in the barren wasteland that is their 'nation', so now they're trying to buy out a culture.
 
Barcelona has always been a big spending club and paid world record fees in the past but you're right that their biggest successes came when some exceptional academy products added to their expensive stars.

There's no hard divide between "oil clubs" and others. PSG (and I think City too) is developing all the areas a truly global club needs: the academy, the infrastructure, the marketing, and of course the big signings in order to become a massive, self-sufficient club. In fact they're doing a much better job than sugar daddies of the past like Berlusconi or Moratti who left the Milan clubs in shambles when they weren't able anymore to buy success through big money signings only.
I've no doubt City will be in bigger shambles once the oil money stops.
 
They don't want the money, they don't need it, they already have it.
Too much of it. They can't enjoy it in the barren wasteland that is their 'nation', so now they're trying to buy out a culture.

This country has made a lot of very diverse acquisitions/investments in all the possible fields... to prepare for the post-gas period.

I can't say I'm happy to see foreign investors acquiring clubs like Monaco, PSG...or companies like Alstom...
 
I've no doubt City will be in bigger shambles once the oil money stops.

Why? They have a stadium, a lot of assets, notoriety... An excellent starting point to remain a competitive club.
 
I'm relax :)

A club has generally between 25 and 30 professional players. PSG version Qatar makes between 1 and 4 major acquisitions per year since 2011. So, I don't buy the story "PSG destroys World Football".

Barcelona and Neymar agreed on a contract including specific clauses. In a certain sense, the ongoing scenario was expected.

In terms of business philosophy, I don't see the difference between Real Madrid and PSG (both clubs target stars or promising talents)... or between Chelsea, City and PSG...

At the end of the process, the money of Qatar will strengthen the financial power of "big brands"...but also small clubs.

There are 2 markets: one for 99.99% of the players and another one for the 5-7 mega stars or promising players.

Personally I have no problem with the success of PSG.I enjoyed it a lot in the 90´s and I understand that their fans also have the right to get lucky / money / titles, and the same with Chelsea and City.
For me the problem is the bad functioning of the FFP. For what I have always understood is a balance between income and expenses, but if suddenly appears an income from an "sponsor" who pays 200 or 300 million...
What if tomorrow a bigger millionaire decides to pay 500m€, and later Carlos Slim or some of the richest people in the world decide to invest 2.000m€, adding their own sponsors...
 
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Why? They have a stadium, a lot of assets, notoriety... An excellent starting point to remain a competitive club.
Milan didn't have all those things when Berlusconi stopped pumping money in? :confused:

The fact is that City's standing in the game will not get them anywhere near the spending they're now accustomed to. They'd be West Ham level or worse and if you think Milan has been in shambles, City will be once the oil money stops
 
Personally I have no problem with the success of PSG.I enjoyed it a lot in the 90´s and I understand that their fans also have the right to get lucky / money / titles, and the same with Chelsea and City.
For me the problem is the bad functioning of the FFP. For what I have always understood is a balance between income and expenses, but if suddenly appears an income for an "sponsor" who pays 200 or 300 million...
What if tomorrow a bigger millionaire decides to pay 500m€, and later Carlos Slim or some of the richest people in the world decide to invest 2.000m€, adding their own sponsors...
I've always thought the FFP is an agreement conceived by Perez, Woodward and the likes to screw with the oil clubs.

Devastated that it's no longer working. :(
 
I've no doubt City will be in bigger shambles once the oil money stops.
I agree. It's not sustainable and their academy is a myth. They will never give their youth a chance under the current regime and once they get bored all kinds of money will be pulled (including their amazing academy). It's not like City have a sexy London location to fall back on for foreign stars and their brand will never be of a "big club" so once they can no longer spunk 50m on players like Stones, or 35m on back-up's like Danilo they will fall fast and hard.
 
Personally I have no problem with the success of PSG.I enjoyed it a lot in the 90´s and I understand that their fans also have the right to get lucky / money / titles, and the same with Chelsea and City.
For me the problem is the bad functioning of the FFP. For what I have always understood is a balance between income and expenses, but if suddenly appears an income for an "sponsor" who pays 200 or 300 million...
What if tomorrow a bigger millionaire decides to pay 500m€, and later Carlos Slim or some of the richest people in the world decide to invest 2.000m€, adding their own sponsors...

I also have no problem with the success of PSG. :wenger:

Option 1: you believe in Capitalism and market economy. Then - like in any economic field - a shareholder has the right to invest, waste money, overpay and cover financial losses.
Option 2: you believe there is the "proper money" and the "dirty money"

FFP has nothing to do with fair-play: it was just a ploy to put in a place a barrier to entry for exotic investors likely to challenge a lobby of historic clubs.
 
I agree. It's not sustainable and their academy is a myth. They will never give their youth a chance under the current regime and once they get bored all kinds of money will be pulled (including their amazing academy). It's not like City have a sexy London location to fall back on for foreign stars and their brand will never be of a "big club" so once they can no longer spunk 50m on players like Stones, or 35m on back-up's like Danilo they will fall fast and hard.
Exactly, Milan had their location and 8? CLs to fall back on and still couldn't make it work.

City could easily be Leicester who won a PL title some time ago if the oil money stops
 
Milan didn't have all those things when Berlusconi stopped pumping money in? :confused:

The fact is that City's standing in the game will not get them anywhere near the spending they're now accustomed to. They'd be West Ham level or worse and if you think Milan has been in shambles, City will be once the oil money stops

Milan AC is still considered in Italy as an Institution with outstanding facilities, a club that just needs 2 or 3 world-class players to reconnect with their history because they have the underlying platform to revive.
 
I also have no problem with the success of PSG. :wenger:

Option 1: you believe in Capitalism and market economy. Then - like in any economic field - a shareholder has the right to invest, waste money, overpay and cover financial losses.
Option 2: you believe there is the "proper money" and the "dirty money"

FFP has nothing to do with fair-play: it was just a ploy to put in a place a barrier to entry for exotic investors likely to challenge a lobby of historic clubs.
Well, the case of Barcelona and Madrid is a bit different within the historical clubs since they are not corporations. The sheik doesn´t have to cover financial losses. I think that it would be better a natural growth, with some limits, but we will see in the future :)
 
Personally I have no problem with the success of PSG.I enjoyed it a lot in the 90´s and I understand that their fans also have the right to get lucky / money / titles, and the same with Chelsea and City.
For me the problem is the bad functioning of the FFP. For what I have always understood is a balance between income and expenses, but if suddenly appears an income from an "sponsor" who pays 200 or 300 million...
What if tomorrow a bigger millionaire decides to pay 500m€, and later Carlos Slim or some of the richest people in the world decide to invest 2.000m€, adding their own sponsors...
I agree the FFP is ill-conceived but it managed to half-work. The funding from related parties is limited to 30%, that allowed the "historical clubs" to keep outspending PSG and City for a while. Now there's also the option to to have a multi-year plan of investment that Milan is using to raise your finances.

The concept of fairness is very relative, a complete free market creates an oligopoly that is very hard to break, like we are seeing now in football, and the US model rewards bad management with a better chance to get competitive during drafts, which isn't fair either.
 
I have no problem with PSG (or any other club) attempting to "buy success". However, in Qatar-owned PSG we have a sovereign state attempting to buy legitimacy/status through football. The 2022 World Cup and past sponsorship of Barca are other parts of it. It gets some of the most famous sportsmen in the world endorsing their nation and its leaders.

Qatar can't establish a national team or domestic clubs to compete with the top sides so they are buying that status. In their eyes PSG winning the Champions League would be Qatar wining the Champions League.
 
I agree the FFP is ill-conceived but it managed to half-work. The funding from related parties is limited to 30%, that allowed the "historical clubs" to keep outspending PSG and City for a while. Now there's also the option to to have a multi-year plan of investment that Milan is using to raise your finances.

The concept of fairness is very relative, a complete free market creates an oligopoly that is very hard to break, like we are seeing now in football, and the US model rewards bad management with a better chance to get competitive during drafts, which isn't fair either.
I didn´t know that. In that case is fairer than I thought
 
I have no problem with PSG (or any other club) attempting to "buy success". However, in Qatar-owned PSG we have a sovereign state attempting to buy legitimacy/status through football. The 2022 World Cup and past sponsorship of Barca are other parts of it. It gets some of the most famous sportsmen in the world endorsing their nation and its leaders.

Qatar can't establish a national team or domestic clubs to compete with the top sides so they are buying that status. In their eyes PSG winning the Champions League would be Qatar wining the Champions League.

Yes, their elite loves football but also want to show off...at any cost.

Suffice to look at their Handball NT :nervous:
 
The 2022 World Cup and past sponsorship of Barca are other parts of it. It gets some of the most famous sportsmen in the world endorsing their nation and its leaders.
No different to Gazprom's sponsorship of the CL, or any of the other dubious multinationals from countries you could care to mention.
 
They don't want the money, they don't need it, they already have it.
Too much of it. They can't enjoy it in the barren wasteland that is their 'nation', so now they're trying to buy out a culture.

Pretty much. They don't care about the process of becoming a big club, something that is done in time and with patience. They just want to be one, and fuel money not to achieve this through a process like it is normal and like all big clubs did it, but by buying. This is the alienation of football values imo.

People compare PSG with Barca and Real Madrid. But Barca and Real have a century of evolution and excellence (Madrid more than Barca) behind them. Their growth has been over time, and their success (as Bayern's, Milan's, United's etc.), as well as the rivalry between them, has been cultivated over time to the point that they developed a certain kind of specific culture.

PSG has no interest to build something. They just want to buy a status.
 
Barcelona has always been a big spending club and paid world record fees in the past but you're right that their biggest successes came when some exceptional academy products added to their expensive stars.

There's no hard divide between "oil clubs" and others. PSG (and I think City too) is developing all the areas a truly global club needs: the academy, the infrastructure, the marketing, and of course the big signings in order to become a massive, self-sufficient club. In fact they're doing a much better job than sugar daddies of the past like Berlusconi or Moratti who left the Milan clubs in shambles when they weren't able anymore to buy success through big money signings only.
I've no doubt City will be in bigger shambles once the oil money stops.
Milan AC is still considered in Italy as an Institution with outstanding facilities, a club that just needs 2 or 3 world-class players to reconnect with their history because they have the underlying platform to revive.
My original reply was to BBRBB who thought that Milan were in shambles, pointing out that I believe City will be in bigger shambles should the oil money dry up.

Obviously "shambles" is relative...
 
Wow. There is some serious bitterness towards PSG and the fact that they are "loaded".

I've no doubt City will be in bigger shambles once the oil money stops.

Oh yeah.
That's what was said when Roman Abramovic took over CFC.
Toys were thrown out of many prams. Fans were screaming like spoilt toddlers.
"When Abramovic gets bored, CFC will be in the Championship!"

2 decades later, CFC are the reigning champs and have won 2 of the last 3 EPL titles.
 
I've always thought the FFP is an agreement conceived by Perez, Woodward and the likes to screw with the oil clubs.

Devastated that it's no longer working. :(
United and Madrid should have agreed some kind of deal between them, but it's so fun trying to buy your players...:drool:
I think Florentino has a good relationship with City and PSG, but at the same time changed the club's statutes to avoid sheiks
 
Wow. There is some serious bitterness towards PSG and the fact that they are "loaded".



Oh yeah.
That's what was said when Roman Abramovic took over CFC.
Toys were thrown out of many prams. Fans were screaming like spoilt toddlers.
"When Abramovic gets bored, CFC will be in the Championship!"

2 decades later, CFC are the reigning champs and have won 2 of the last 3 EPL titles.
You mean 14 years? :confused:

Anyway, none of those things have proven to be false, he just hasn't got bored yet.
 
United and Madrid should have agreed some kind of deal between them, but it's so fun trying to buy your players...:drool:
I think Florentino has a good relationship with City and PSG, but at the same time changed the club's statutes to avoid sheiks
He has the sense not to go upset the sheiks that Barca clearly lack.
 
Fortunately we have some great offtopic banter in this thread today because there's absolutely nothing on the Neymar front.

Disappointing because after the last Piqué update I expected a quick closure.
 
Looks that way....PSG must be scratching their heads in disbelief....so close to getting Neymar and potentially thought they would get Sanchez.
 
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