Next United Manager: Pep Guardiola?

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Skills said:
:lol: he's humiliated Madrid multiple times, and has destroyed us twice in Champions League finals during our best ever period in European football.
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With Barcelona, at a time when they were probably the best team that had ever existed. I think he's a great manager, but it was worrying how naive he was in the bayern v Madrid game. I'm also not a big fan of his brand of football, it just doesn't excite me.
 
langster said:
Surely none of this is a surprise? He has often mentioned United and especially after his meeting with Ferguson a couple of summer ago.

Isn't the essence of a "great" manager one that can change and adapt to different methods and styles of play, rather than sticking to their own tried and tested methods all the time? Sir Alex constantly adapted United's style of play to fit who or where they were playing.

I like Pep. As a person he seems polite, articulate, extremely well dressed and very astute. He does come across as bland at times, and there are reports about him being extremely intense but there is no doubting his success and he is a very talented manager. Personally I wouldn't want him as United manager (any time soon) for the same reason I wouldn't want Mourinho as United manager. Their style of football bores the living shite out of me. Mourinho gives more excitement in a 10 minute presser than his teams give on the pitch in a game. I feel Pep is the same (at the moment). I loved the Bayern of a couple of years ago, the same as I still love watching Dortmund now. Fast flowing attacking and counter attacking football with wing play and interchanging all over the pitch. NOT the boring tika taka that Barca were playing under Pep and that Bayern seem to be playing at the moment. Yes it was/is successful but it is also extremely dull. If Pep is as clever as I and others seem to think, he will use his time at Bayern to learn more about other styles of football than just his own programmed style that has been with him throughout his career at Barca.

Sorry, but personally I would rather United not win anything for a couple of seasons or so than play dull football and win. Winning to me is just a bonus, after loving United through years of winning nothing and underachieving then to go through the years of being spoilt rotten, I know that I have the same love for the club if they win, lose or draw, as long as it is entertaining or the team gives 100% every time they step on the pitch.

Saying that though, as mentioned by other posters, it is WAY too early to start all this talk. We have LvG as a new manager and things are exciting as hell right now. I am really looking forward to see where LvG and his plans take us. And in that time if Pep can show he can adapt his styles a bit more and produce excitement as well as trophies, then as I said in my second point above, he can become a great manager and who knows, maybe he will get his chance? United could certainly do worse (MOYES) Finally, isn't it nice to be mentioned and admired by probably the best and most highly regarded young manager in world football?
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I'd say if he keeps winning then what does it matter if he can adapt or not!
 
Having Pep take over United would be a dream come true.

I don't understand the negative comments on here. His Barca 09-12 side will go down in history as one of the greatest teams in footballing history. He doesn't need to resort to childish antics such as other managers and he instills a great work and team ethic into his players.

I do think LvG will be a success, and when he comes to the end of his cycle at Utd, we should get Pep whatever way we can.
 
As good as Pep's record is I do think he is rather overrated by a lot of people.

His trophy haul with Barca was incredible, but he was working with probably the best team ever assembled with a number of it's key players reaching their peak simultaneously.

The fact that he left them at the time they were going to start needing some level of rebuilding is a bit of a black mark against his name for me, and now he's gone to Bayern who were probably the best team in the world when he took over, and he'll probably leave them when they need rebuilding.

A lot of people use frequent moves as a stick to beat Mourinho with, I'm not sure why Guardiola seems to escape the same criticism.

He's clearly a very very good coach, but he still has certain aspects to prove.
 
simonhch said:
Does anyone really think that? I mean anyone who knows anything about Spanish football? LVG went to Barca in 1997, everyone knows their philosophy predates that, but his role in their evolution and dominance in the late 2000's, early 2010's cannot be under estimated. Likewise with Bayern.

Cryuff is a major figure in the history of Barca, he was the one who brought total football to Catalunya. Influenced heavily by Rinus Michels. But according to all reliable accounts, he left little in the way of formal organisation. His philosophies were in the heads of many but little was left written down or converted into specific methodologies that could be drilled on the training pitch. Van Gaal brought that same dutch total football philosophy learned at Ajax, but with it he also brought a formal system that could be implemented on the training pitch and in the club's youth academies.

Much of his approach to the game was used by Guardiola and Mourinho (two of his disciples) at various points of their careers, and much still is. Yet both have developed their own styles and taken influences from elsewhere also. LVG has left a lasting legacy and impression where ever he has been, including Barcelona. Lahm said just this month that his influence is still felt at Bayern, and that his tactical approach to the game is still embraced by the players.

As for the prospect of Guardiola managing United, I don't understand how anyone could be against the prospect. The man is a football genius. His attention to detail is incredible. While his Barca team were capable of keeping possession for absurdly long cycles, they could also play some incredibly incisive football. He's been at Bayern for one season, and for the first half of that season he did the seemingly impossible and made them even better. The wheels somewhat fell off as the season went on, but anyone writing him off and his approach to the game is in for a serious shock. I believe he will always be at the forefront of the ongoing tactical revolution.

It will be interesting to see how he copes this season without Thiago, Kroos and Martinez. Those are some serious losses.
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Who are the 'reliable accounts' you speak of? Genuine question, because that wasn't my understanding but you sound better read on the subject than I am.

Aside from saying his second spell at Barcelona being an abject failure, I don't want to put van Gaal's influence or success there down. I just think it's nonsense to say Guardiola "bandwagoned" off his philosophy when he's from the Cruyff/Bielsa school. There's obviously shared ideas between the two but Pep and LVG don't share an entire philosophy.

I also think that, whether he formalised things or not, Cruyff is the most important figure in Barcelona's recent history, but that's not a slight on van Gaal.
 
Uzz said:
Having Pep take over United would be a dream come true.

I don't understand the negative comments on here. His Barca 09-12 side will go down in history as one of the greatest teams in footballing history. He doesn't need to resort to childish antics such as other managers and he instills a great work and team ethic into his players.

I do think LvG will be a success, and when he comes to the end of his cycle at Utd, we should get Pep whatever way we can.
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Wouldn't argue with that, but take away Messi and what you're left with is zombie passing on steroids. I admired them greatly on a technical level, but I wouldn't pay money to see them - as has been said many times before, boring in the extreme.
 
Rado_N said:
As good as Pep's record is I do think he is rather overrated by a lot of people.

His trophy haul with Barca was incredible, but he was working with probably the best team ever assembled with a number of it's key players reaching their peak simultaneously.

The fact that he left them at the time they were going to start needing some level of rebuilding is a bit of a black mark against his name for me, and now he's gone to Bayern who were probably the best team in the world when he took over, and he'll probably leave them when they need rebuilding.

A lot of people use frequent moves as a stick to beat Mourinho with, I'm not sure why Guardiola seems to escape the same criticism.

He's clearly a very very good coach, but he still has certain aspects to prove.
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It's astonishing how people conveniently forget that the exact same team struggled badly in the previous two season, coming 3rd behind a pretty average Real Madrid side and freaking Villarreal. He had to rebuild them, change philosophy and instill hunger and confidence into the team, it was a very difficult job in which he succeeded beyond any expectation.
 
fergieisold said:
With Barcelona, at a time when they were probably the best team that had ever existed. I think he's a great manager, but it was worrying how naive he was in the bayern v Madrid game. I'm also not a big fan of his brand of football, it just doesn't excite me.
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It was one off. Ferguson had us eliminated from Champions League by Basel and Benfica, lost 6-1 to City. It happens to everyone.
 
Rado_N said:
As good as Pep's record is I do think he is rather overrated by a lot of people.

His trophy haul with Barca was incredible, but he was working with probably the best team ever assembled with a number of it's key players reaching their peak simultaneously.

The fact that he left them at the time they were going to start needing some level of rebuilding is a bit of a black mark against his name for me, and now he's gone to Bayern who were probably the best team in the world when he took over, and he'll probably leave them when they need rebuilding.

A lot of people use frequent moves as a stick to beat Mourinho with, I'm not sure why Guardiola seems to escape the same criticism.

He's clearly a very very good coach, but he still has certain aspects to prove.
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Agree with this. If he wanted to prove himself he could've come in after Fergie, instead he went to the best team in Europe, just like how he previously took over the best team in Europe, and I guarantee in three to four years, LvG will have us in great shape too, and he knows that, so it's no surprise to me now.

There's no doubting that he has the ability to make great teams even greater and play even better, and his philosophies are great, but I don't think he's this miraculous man of wonder that some make him out to be.
 
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I'm a fan of his, yeah he played with possibly the best team ever assembled, but it was HIS team. He did a lot of the rebuilding himself, even telling 3 times World Player of the Year Ronaldinho to pack it up and leave. Didn't he also work with many of those players at youth level?
 
Cina said:
Agree with this. If he wanted to prove himself he could've come in after Fergie, instead he went to the best team in Europe, just like how he previously took over the best team in Europe, and I guarantee in three to four years, LvG will have us in great shape too, and he knows that, so it's no surprise to me now.

There's no doubting that he has the ability to make great teams even greater and play even better, and his philosophies are great, but I don't think he's this miraculous man of wonder that some make him out to be.
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Did he not take the Bayern job before Fergie decided he was going to retire!
 
Sarni said:
It's astonishing how people conveniently forget that the exact same team struggled badly in the previous two season, coming 3rd behind a pretty average Real Madrid side and freaking Villarreal. He had to rebuild them, change philosophy and instill hunger and confidence into the team, it was a very difficult job in which he succeeded beyond any expectation.
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I'm not sure what you mean by conveniently, but I'm not forgetting anything.

I tried to make it clear in my post that I'm not knocking the guy and do acknowledge that he's a very good coach, but it seems you are suggesting some kind of agenda, which I can assure you I don't have.

As I said, I just think the timing of things worked out very very well for him and contributed to the success of that team in quite a big way.

For me there are still certain aspects of his skills that are unproven.

But that's, just, like, my opinion man.
 
Rado_N said:
A lot of people use frequent moves as a stick to beat Mourinho with, I'm not sure why Guardiola seems to escape the same criticism.
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Hmm. How does he move frequently? He stayed at Barcelona for 4 years (5 if you count Barcelona B), took a year out and then joined Bayern. Two top level management jobs is hardly a lot...?

Get In Scholesy said:
I'm a fan of his, yeah he played with possibly the best team ever assembled, but it was HIS team. He did a lot of the rebuilding himself, even telling 3 times World Player of the Year Ronaldinho to pack it up and leave. Didn't he also work with many of those players at youth level?
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A few, yeah. Busquets, Pedro and arguably Thiago were the only genuine first teamers but he also gave opportunities to Montoya, Bartra, Tello, Cuenca, Sergi Roberto and maybe a few more.
 
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It's amazing how many people think it's easy to just waltz into a big club and carry on the success. My God, how can any United fan think that after Moyes?

Managing a club like Barcelona is not easy in the slightest. The expectations are huge and the pressure is unrelenting with the press hounding your every move 24/7. You have a squad full of ego's and you somehow need to get the best out of each player whilst simultaneosly getting them to work as a team. And ALWAYS getting results along the way.

When Pep took over at Barca things weren't running perfectly at all. They were starting to struggle. There were lots of issues to address which he just handled without any fuss. Suddenly all these players went up three or four levels. He took them from being a very good side, to a side talked about as one of the greatest clubs sides ever to play the game, inventing his own style along the way.

Then he takes over Bayern, in a new country, new league and with a new language, and ONLY wins the double in his first season with the fastest ever Bundesliga win, longest BL winning run and longest BL undefeated run. What an idiot! Yeah, let's give Giggs the job.
 
Far better than Jose Mourinho, we would be very lucky to have him as our manager.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
Hmm. How does he move frequently? He stayed at Barcelona for 4 years (5 if you count Barcelona B), took a year out and then joined Bayern. Two top level management jobs is hardly a lot...?
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It's not the number of jobs, it's the length of time he stayed. Mourinho had 4 years at Chelsea in his first stint there, iirc.

It surprised me when he left Barca, with his association with the club and the run they'd had. If he'd stayed and overseen their transition into a new team with a similar record I'd regard him a lot higher than at the moment.
 
Rado_N said:
I'm not sure what you mean by conveniently, but I'm not forgetting anything.

I tried to make it clear in my post that I'm not knocking the guy and do acknowledge that he's a very good coach, but it seems you are suggesting some kind of agenda, which I can assure you I don't have.

As I said, I just think the timing of things worked out very very well for him and contributed to the success of that team in quite a big way.

For me there are still certain aspects of his skills that are unproven.

But that's, just, like, my opinion man.
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I don't like how people downplay his achievements at Barcelona by saying he inherited the best squad ever. It'd go for people who followed him because the belief and confidence was already in the players, as far as Guardiola's work goes I think he was one of the main reasons why Xavi, Iniesta and Messi reached these levels.
 
As someone stated earlier, the job he did at Barcelona was incredible and it's just naive to say 'he was lucky, he had Messi, Xavi Iniesta coming into their peak etc'

First off, he was promoted from the Barcelona B team and his first action was to get rid of Ronaldinho, Deco (and he tried to get rid of Eto'o). Name me one other manager who would get rid of one of the best footballers in the world at the time, one of the best playmakers in the world at the time, and an incredible potent and efficient goal scorer? It was an incredibly bold move and it paid off handsomely.

Next, Pedro was on his way out, Busquets was floundering in the B team, Xavi and Iniesta hadn't realised their potential. He stopped Pedro from leaving, and then promoted Pedro and Busquets to the first team. Pedro went on to be the only player in history to score in 6 different competitions in one season as well as being pivotal in a host of other trophies won. Busquets, diving aside, is probably the best holding/deep playmaker in the game today. Xavi and Iniesta, although they featured under Rijkaard were no way near the players they were under Pep. Neither even started the final against Arsenal in the CL, and it was Deco who was the main architect of Rijkaard's team in those years (being covered by van Bommel/Edmilson).

To say any manager could have done the job he did is absolute bollocks. The season Fergie released Sparky, Ince, Kanchelskis et al for the Class of 92 is the only thing I can think of that comes close to this (and even that is a stretch). And none of those players he released were on Ronaldinho's level (or even Deco's)!
 
Rado_N said:
It's not the number of jobs, it's the length of time he stayed. Mourinho had 4 years at Chelsea in his first stint there, iirc.

It surprised me when he left Barca, with his association with the club and the run they'd had. If he'd stayed and overseen their transition into a new team with a similar record I'd regard him a lot higher than at the moment.
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In that case I would guess the small sample size is why people don't bash him for not staying long as much as they do with Mourinho.

It's true that he hasn't proved that he's capable of managing the same club for a long period of time, aye. Personally I don't think it's something that's important, it's pretty rare for managers to stay in one job for a long time these days. Fair enough if it puts you off him though, matter of opinion really.
 
People underrate his achievements with Barcelona. Just because he has Messi doesn't mean he didn't had a tough job. He was given a job to revitalise Barcelona after they had been listless in the previous season. Not only he found the best position for Messi, he also introduced Pedro and Busquets who were unknown at that time and made them amongst Europe's best along with getting the best from Xavi, Iniesta, Valdes and Pique.
 
Jesus, some people here are underrating him badly. He has been poor at Bayern... what? Well, he has been poor at Bayern only, if your expectations from him are to win the CL every year and do Treble's every second... He won 4 cups last year (won against Jose Mourinho in the Super Cup), only missed out on the CL which was a f*ck up and he is not afraid to admit. However, every great manager gets spanked once in a while, it's just how it is - Mourinho got decimated 5-0 when he was at Real by Pep, Pep was decimated by Ancelotti... Even Sir Alex, who I consider the greatest manager, also got spanked by Mancini... Mancini... let that sink in.

Heynckes great Bayern team wouldn't have been replicated even by Heynckes the following season, I assure you. It's very difficult to maintain such a high level no matter how great you are. Why are people blaming Pep for this? He won the Bundesliga in record time...
 
Rado_N said:
As good as Pep's record is I do think he is rather overrated by a lot of people.

His trophy haul with Barca was incredible, but he was working with probably the best team ever assembled with a number of it's key players reaching their peak simultaneously.

The fact that he left them at the time they were going to start needing some level of rebuilding is a bit of a black mark against his name for me, and now he's gone to Bayern who were probably the best team in the world when he took over, and he'll probably leave them when they need rebuilding.

A lot of people use frequent moves as a stick to beat Mourinho with, I'm not sure why Guardiola seems to escape the same criticism.

He's clearly a very very good coach, but he still has certain aspects to prove.
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I agree with the general sentiment. In answer to the bit in bold, presumably because he has only actually done it once. While we can speculate that he will do it again with Bayern, it would be harsh to be excessively critical about a trend that hasnt even emerged yet.

He is clearly a very good manager but I agree he was very lucky to be in the right place at the right time with Barca. The next few years will tell us a lot about whether he is a very good manager or an amazing one.
 
Sarni said:
I don't like how people downplay his achievements at Barcelona by saying he inherited the best squad ever. It'd go for people who followed him because the belief and confidence was already in the players, as far as Guardiola's work goes I think he was one of the main reasons why Xavi, Iniesta and Messi reached these levels.
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This ignores the fact that teams have natural cycles, you cant stay at the top forever.

You may well be right about Guardiola being the main reason Xavi and Iniesta and the like reached the level they did - but nobody will be able to say with much certainty unless he repeats the trick. Otherwise it will look like luck.

The problem is he chose for his next club another team that was coming to an ascendant point in its own cycle, it had already proved itself very successful, but had not been at the top as long as his Barca team had - therefore had longer to go before needing a rebuild.

Basically, doubts will persist until he proves himself with a team that people dont suspect could basically manage itself.
 
There aren't many mangers out there who could handle the United job, Pep, Mourinho and Kloop stand out a mile from the rest. Simeone and Ancelotti would also be outside candidates, Giggs? I really really hope not.
The options will be small and it would be hard to prise them away from their current Club, especially Mourinho and Klopp.
 
Getsme said:
Giggs, Come on, you must really hate Pep if you would take Giggs over him :). Klopp would be one off three, however he loves Borussia Dortmund and may not leave.
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Its not about that, Pep would only stay with us for 2 or 3 years, giggs would stay forever i think. Also after 3 years under LVG I think he'll be ready
 
Jammydodger7 said:
I'd prefer Klopp or Giggs
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I want to see Klopp in an environment where he's not the underdog; how will he perform in an environment where success is demanded? I have a hunch he's Arsenal bound after Wenger, but we'll see.
 
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