I do agree that is the only worry with Klopp
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http://footballcantera.com/josep-guardiolas-biggest-achievement-barca-b-part-14/
This is the first part of a very good article about Guardiola's Barcelona "B" job. I don't see Giggs doing anything like this.
Giggs would be fired in a year IMO.
There is a big difference in being an assistant manager to the manager of arguably the biggest Club in World football, we only have to look at Carlos Queiroz as a very good example of that.
Giggs has managed the team for four games with zero expectations on him, he needs to get out of United and show the World what he can do before he is even considered for the United job.
I don't know if Giggs wants to leave United. But, if he wants the top job he might well have to.
There's absolutely no way Giggs should get the job after LVG.
There's no place for nepotism here, we need the best.
There's no place for nepotism here, we need the best.
Imagine someone saying in 2008, "there's no way Pep Guardiola should get the Barcelona job, he should prove himself first".
This.
The job pretty much destroyed a manager with over 10 years experience in the premier league as a manager within 12 months.. how on earth do you think a guy with what, 4 managerial games under his belt (all being dead rubbers) will fair being the man with all the decisions etc?
He will have to, no way will he be given the job without proving he can stand on his own two feet. The club learnt a hard lesson with Moyes and I'm certain it's a mistake they won't make again. Giggs may be United manager one day but that day will be years and years down the line.
They gambled and won. We shouldn't gamble however.
Well, difference is Guardiola at least proved himself managing Barcelona ''B'' (a very hard job) while Giggs has done absolutely nothing to warrant a managerial palce at United.
Since when?
I'm not rulling out the possibility of Giggs being worthy of the job. People at the club could see something in him that merits the risk (any manager is a risk anyhow). The problem is the only person at the club with the right knowledge to say whether Giggs can do it is Van Gaal himself. It's not something Woodward or a Glazer would be able to figure out. Nor Ferguson or Charlton for that matter.
Yep, they took a massive risk there. Just goes to show how good Pep Guardiola is really. We should get him.
It's all a big roundabout. All the best players in the world join the same clubs and the managers do the same. Mourinho Chelsea-Inter-Real Madrid-Chelsea. Hiddink Juve-Milan-Chelsea-PSG-Real Madrid. Pep Barca-Bayern, etc. It's only because United have had such stability that it hasn't effected us for so long. 3 years is a long time in football, so many more managers could emerge or go in to the wilderness. I think it will probably be between Klopp and Pep, but who really knows?
I don't think any top club looking for a manager would turn down Guardiola. He guarantees trophies, brings in fresh ideas, is a workaholic, is willing to adapt tactically and is not one of the most respected persons in football for nothing.
He might be a bit naive tactically sometimes, but so was SAF at times. This might cost us a couple of big games a year, so what? Yes, he lost 4-0 to RM but that can happen. We have lost some games over the years with a huge margin. Mourinho lost 5-0 against Guardiola. Every great manager makes tactical mistakes once in a while.
Benitez probably is the best tactician in football, but that doesn't put him among the very best managers at all and he also makes mistakes.
Bayern's players are among the most outspoken ones around and are also not shy of tactical analyses in interviews, but so far they haven't blamed anything on Guardiola. Only the press and Guardiola himself blamed him for the RM defeat. RM were the best team in Europe last season and on top of that Bayern conceded two early set piece goals in the return leg against them. Not the end of the world.
He might be a bit naive tactically sometimes, but so was SAF at times. This might cost us a couple of big games a year, so what? Yes, he lost 4-0 to RM but that can happen. We have lost some games over the years with a huge margin. Mourinho lost 5-0 against Guardiola. Every great manager makes tactical mistakes once in a while.
Benitez probably is the best tactician in football, but that doesn't put him among the very best managers at all and he also makes mistakes.
Bayern's players are among the most outspoken ones around and are also not shy of tactical analyses in interviews, but so far they haven't blamed anything on Guardiola. Only the press and Guardiola himself blamed him for the RM defeat. RM were the best team in Europe last season and on top of that Bayern conceded two early set piece goals in the return leg against them. Not the end of the world.
Please, no. Moyes again, but nor Guardiola or Mourinho.
Yeah Pep is made for United in the sense that he knows how to deal with big clubs, big name players, would attract all sorts of talent from Spain and elsewhere, and most importantly has won leagues and CLs before.
We generally frown on wummery here.
Thanks Balu.
Vielen danke mein Freund. I'm glad you cleared that up. My chum is an older Bayern fan and expressed some concerns that the hierarchy at Bayern might have been having second thoughts about Pep's appointment.
I don't want to hate next United manager. Guardiola and Mourinho are both very hateable ones.
So you want Moyes instead, the most loved manager in Uniteds history? I can see where you're coming from.
Hang on when did Guardiola slip into hate territory?
We should let gigs or maybe moyes be given another chance, long term,identity blah blah...
Mourinho I get, but Pep? Can't see how he is hateable.
Klopp should be our #1 target
Dont get me wrong i'm a fan of the man as a manager and would love to see him after LvG goes but he did inherit one of the best sides to grace the game.
His achievements with Barca will haunt him forever. Pep used 10 different lineups in the opening 10 games this season with Bayern. Here they are visualized:
I don't see any players who could be described as "among the best ever". I'm seeing lots of makeshift lineups with the likes of Gaudino, Alaba, Rode, Bernat, Höjbjerg and Co. in the middle of the park. Lewandowski is a big name but didn't even show world class form yet. Despite injuries to Martinez, Schweinsteiger, Thiago, Ribery, Robben and other key players he has established a 10 point lead on Klopp yet again and only conceded 2 goals so far in all competitions. You cannot tinker like this with formations and lineups and get those results by virtue of being a man who is just lucky to be managing egos of historic players. He's clearly one of the most adaptable and tactically adventurous managers out there, if not the most. Among all of this he is only 2 years older than Giggs. So much room to learn and improve. If at all the loss to Madrid last season will make him a that much better manager rather than exposing him.
No one really knew that was one of the best squads ever until Guardiola pun them on that level. Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Puyol, those players started to be excellent once Guardiola became their manager.
I never heard anyone talking highly about Iniesta before Guardiola.
I agree with your overall point, but think you're being harsh on a few of those players too. Puyol especially, who was fantastic for a few years before Guardiola took over.
Xavi and Iniesta were both highly rated too, but Pep (and Aragonés to be fair) helped them reach an even higher level. Busquets obviously was a nobody though.
Xavi was already the player of the tournament in Euro 2008, providing the winning assist to Torres in the final against Germany. Iniesta came on in the CL final in 2006 and changed the game as a deep-lying playmaker. His pass led to the equalizer against Arsenal. Messi was Messi.
But all of this is irrelevant. If having great players alone would guarantee success Real Madrid wouldn't have waited 12 years for their prescious La Decima and City wouldn't get embarrassed in Europe time and time again.
Pep taking over from Van Gaal...after he's laid the foundations...will be the logical conclusion
None of those have retired and working as a number two.With all he as picked up with Quieroz , Brian Kidd ,Meulensteen , SAF and now Van Gaal think he'll be more than ready to give it a go.
It's still 3 years minimum down the line.
I'm more interested in next title, rather than next manager atm.
I'm more interested in next title, rather than next manager atm.
How can people say no abouth The Pep? And prefer Giggs instead?
My dream choice would be Klopp (mainly because he plays the type of football I like most), but I would be absolutely delighted if we get Pep or Mourinho too. These three, Simeone and Ancelotti are the best managers in the world. We should try to get one of them before we decide to go for someone else.
My dream choice would be Klopp (mainly because he plays the type of football I like most), but I would be absolutely delighted if we get Pep or Mourinho too. These three, Simeone and Ancelotti are the best managers in the world. We should try to get one of them before we decide to go for someone else.
If we have the players I'm 100% sure Giggs could do the job. The reason Moyes failed was he came in and changed everything up and wasn't respected by the players. Giggs would get the respect and it would be a smooth transition.
He did? From what I saw, Moyes was largely trying to replicate Fergie, but just made everything seem different because he wasn't very good at it and paled in comparison to SAF. He went for a fairly similar style, we used our wide players a lot (not effectively, mind), and he didn't particularly shake things up all that - his big summer signing was Marouanne Fellaini. I expect the players were probably respectful, if not in awe of him, at first, but as time progressed they became disillusioned with him because they just knew the guy wasn't good enough for the position he'd been given.
Giggs wouldn't be disrespected per say, but if Moyes' managerial CV meant he wasn't respected by the players, Giggs would be laughed out the door.
In general on the whole Giggs/Guardiola comparison, the difference between us and Barca is that they seem to be very efficient with their in-built La Masia system, and seem better equipped to appoint someone from within the club. While we've got a good record with youth, our record isn't recent years doesn't compared with theirs. I'd like to see the club trying to build to where we could appoint from within, but I think it'd have the potential to be very messy if we did it at the moment, and could end badly.
Unrealistic to expect that Giggs can do a Guardiola. Barca took a massive risk when they appointed him and even then, he had experience with Barca B and was doing good things there, whereas Giggs has had 4 games worth of experience as a manager and people want him over Guardiola. Of course Giggs could turn out to be a managerial genius but the likelihood of that is tiny. Also, those that don't want him because of his 'playing style'- what? His Barca team played entertaining football and Bayern for the most part played good football as well. Pep himself recently said he hates tiki taka. For those who don't want him due to supposedly boring football, which other world class managers are out there that we can turn our noses up at Guardiola?
He didn't change it up on the pitch per say but He changed the way the players trained and brought in a stricter diet regime, aswell as getting rid of most of the back room staff who had been there for so long.
A lot of those changes are fairly natural ones though. Any new manager who just keeps training identical to the previous manager is probably not going to do overly well because they should have their own methods and routines. I'd imagine LVG does things his own way, and not all of the players may particularly approve fully, but as long as it works and produces results, they'll go along with it because they'll know that he's doing whatever he prefers to do for the right reasons and he knows what he's doing. Moyes obviously didn't, so the players soon realised that his training methods, diet regimes etc were bullshit, and that he needed to go.
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