That's not really something he has/hasn't done, that's a qualification. I'm specifically asking what he's done wrong, as in actions/failings/shortcomings in his time as Technical Director, to make him so unpopular?
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If it pushes an agenda that the fans love, they'll lap it up. Clearly it was a bullshit source with no credibility. The source also said ETH is close when in reality United are still interviewing candidates.
I think it comes down to him being appointed with literally zero experience, he represents the nepotism and incompetence that has contributed to our massive downfall. Didn't Ralf say he doesn't know what he does? How can we know what does he do?
You realise many many people in these positions are appointed without experience. Petr Cech is the technical and performance advisor at Chelsea - same job different title. Many of the great sporting directors we speak about became sporting directors after playing. VDS became Ajax's Marketing Director after he retired. Marketing..
We know what he does because it's been outlined multiple times. He is in charge of making sure there is a proper route of communication and development between the academy and first team as well as other departments. They are different entities and you need someone to oversee how they interact.
To explain it better I'll let Petr Cech do so “I am getting my own ideas about what could work better. Generally when you work with a lot of different people at this level it is run by departments. But there are a lot. The best part for me is connecting the departments. This is my biggest target, to make sure everything is connected and works one way.
“The first team is the most important. But then we have the scouting, recruitment, the development squad, players who are on loan. All this works together. It will give the first team a much better platform and [let] the manager have an easier job and concentrate only on the pitch. This is something we have been trying to create. So far this season we have been working well.”
Indeed. I like some of his opinions but when it comes to managers...I think his managerial stint wrecked him.
I have voted for Ten Hag. Biggest key factor and reason is :
Ten Hag get the best out of his players. Not opposite. When a manager in somehow get his players to performance worse. It is the opposite of a manager United shall not get and hire. In the worst case. The manager loosing the dressing room and get sack.
And how do you Ten Hag get the best out of his players? Two biggest example i were got experienced and observed were. Sebastien Haller and Tadic. Since i didnt follow Ajax that much before after those players joined United.
First we take a look at Sebastien time at Haller. For me. Haller wasn't a flop in premier league. Like many players that arrived premier league. Were playing for not dominate and winning team in the league. In this case. At that time. West Ham were a middle table team. In other words. Haller didnt had the best or top quality teammates that should serve him consistent top quality service. Feed him with ball and assist he could score and make something out of him.
His time at West Ham was for me just ok. Not a good period or his career. But in somehow. Ten Hag saw his abilities and qualities. Ajax and Ten Hag brought this boy with low confidence to Amsterdam. And no rocket science and naturally. With better qualities teammates in Ajax. And playing for a team that is dominating the league. Winning and winning. It boost and rise his confidence. Haller enjoyed the football more.
So Ten Hag saw it. Ten Hag knew with Haller qualities and the consistent top service of Ajax teammates. And as Haller play and play more regularly. As Ajax CF. Match practise. Haller clinical finish abilities rise. And today Haller is one of top scorer in champion league this season.
Another example is Tadic. For me. Tadic did better for Southampton than Haller at Ajax. Tadic skill on the ball and Tadic is a playmaker. A attacking player that serve and feed the CF passes and ball. Instead of CF. Who is depend on his teammates service. So for me. Tadic was good for Southampton and sometime i do enjoyed watching him for Southampton. His left foot is not world class. But still really good. Good enough that Ten Hag and Ajax need his service.
But look back at it. Its not logical to bring a really good playmaker and precise foot. When you first has brought as CF that need conistent top quality service?
So i just show Ten Hag had a plan with bringing Haller and Tadic from premier league. The man knew what he was doing. And the man see the bigger picture. That players success and good performances are depend on each others. If a collective is struggling and find hard to create chances. The individual will struggle too. Just like you a buying tennis racket without a ball to play with. Or in Volleyball more clearly. A good smash need a good and precise set up. Not too high or low. Like in football. The passes and service has to be precise and of top qualities. Consistent like Volleyball players.
But understandable. Its more difficult to be precise with the feets than the fingers and hands. Just show how inconsistent football players are. Compare to volleyball. Passes and smashes.
So conclusion. Rashford is struggling not only to his own form. Most the key and most important of not only Rashford has struggled. Even one of the GOAT of football in Ronaldo had struggled after his come back to Old Trafford. It just show how much United attacking players are so depend on the top service their get from midfield, full back and ball playing CBs. To be honest. United collective playing is so poor. Bringing me thoughts back the time before Bruno joined United. Ole was close to got sack then. After the Burnley lost. Then came mister Bruno. The qualities of the service and build up the attack improve a lot with Bruno. But still not enough to this date, obviously.
United is lacking top creative and quality midfield players. And full offensive full back like Liverpools and City Cancelo. So playing as CF for City, if a CF that has reach this level and joined City. It will not be the most difficult job he will get.
So back to Ten Hag. I am sure he will get the best out of Rashford. Use his strenght and what he is best at. Like receiving trough balls against a high back line from the left. And come up one one one against the goalkeeper. I think like Haller and Tadic. He will use players at theirs best positions and get the best out of them.
He has done with Tadic to Haller. So i believe Ten Hag will se United is lacking consistent top quality service from midfield and full back players. If Ten Hag buy and bring one or 2 really good midfield players and strenght United others weak or not top positions. Then Ten Hag will succeed.
Ten Hag or which others managers. They need to bring top qualities midfield players with them. Include RW too. If Sancho will still play as LW. United have many positions where they can improve and strenght. I think Ten Hag will need 2 summer windows to make United close to complete as a team. Top 2 and 3 is possible next season with Ten Hag. And i am sure United will play better as a team next season. And it will help and affect the invidual performances too.
But lately i have observed that Ten Hag has switched from Dutch total football 433 to 4231. So it might has affect on the results and cleen sheet. Ajax is starting to conceed more goals now than earlier. So if Ten Hag knows total football 433 in and out. He should believe on it. Its all about. Back to basis. Get the best and right players for each posititions and role in that 433 formation.
From out of Ten Hag, Poch and The Saints Ralph. With the case of Haller and Tadic. I could see clearly most the improvement of the players. To be honest not much improvement of Poch with PSG players. The natural problem with coaching world class or close to world class. The room for improvement is lesser. Because they are close to complete. Its like reaching the top of the mountain. Its difficult to retain the top poin/max level. Because its only one way down.
And Ralph with Saints. I didnt follow Livramento and Broja to know how much they has improve and develop to the better. Its harder to judge and rate Ralph on that. But the clearly the intensity, aggresive and hard work with Southampton as team. The collective i have seen improvement. Like playing against Spurs, not far away. They bossed and dominate Spurs most of the match. It is a good ability and coaching from the manager.
But i based on who have get the best out of his players. My biggest reason and factor when i rate and hire a manager. And its where Ten Hag score highest. And reason i vote for him, Ten Hag as United next head coach.
Ten Hag get the best out of his players. Not opposite. When a manager in somehow get his players to performance worse. It is the opposite of a manager United shall not get and hire. In the worst case. The manager loosing the dressing room and get sack.
And how do you Ten Hag get the best out of his players? Two biggest example i were got experienced and observed were. Sebastien Haller and Tadic. Since i didnt follow Ajax that much before after those players joined United.
First we take a look at Sebastien time at Haller. For me. Haller wasn't a flop in premier league. Like many players that arrived premier league. Were playing for not dominate and winning team in the league. In this case. At that time. West Ham were a middle table team. In other words. Haller didnt had the best or top quality teammates that should serve him consistent top quality service. Feed him with ball and assist he could score and make something out of him.
His time at West Ham was for me just ok. Not a good period or his career. But in somehow. Ten Hag saw his abilities and qualities. Ajax and Ten Hag brought this boy with low confidence to Amsterdam. And no rocket science and naturally. With better qualities teammates in Ajax. And playing for a team that is dominating the league. Winning and winning. It boost and rise his confidence. Haller enjoyed the football more.
So Ten Hag saw it. Ten Hag knew with Haller qualities and the consistent top service of Ajax teammates. And as Haller play and play more regularly. As Ajax CF. Match practise. Haller clinical finish abilities rise. And today Haller is one of top scorer in champion league this season.
Another example is Tadic. For me. Tadic did better for Southampton than Haller at Ajax. Tadic skill on the ball and Tadic is a playmaker. A attacking player that serve and feed the CF passes and ball. Instead of CF. Who is depend on his teammates service. So for me. Tadic was good for Southampton and sometime i do enjoyed watching him for Southampton. His left foot is not world class. But still really good. Good enough that Ten Hag and Ajax need his service.
But look back at it. Its not logical to bring a really good playmaker and precise foot. When you first has brought as CF that need conistent top quality service?
So i just show Ten Hag had a plan with bringing Haller and Tadic from premier league. The man knew what he was doing. And the man see the bigger picture. That players success and good performances are depend on each others. If a collective is struggling and find hard to create chances. The individual will struggle too. Just like you a buying tennis racket without a ball to play with. Or in Volleyball more clearly. A good smash need a good and precise set up. Not too high or low. Like in football. The passes and service has to be precise and of top qualities. Consistent like Volleyball players.
But understandable. Its more difficult to be precise with the feets than the fingers and hands. Just show how inconsistent football players are. Compare to volleyball. Passes and smashes.
So conclusion. Rashford is struggling not only to his own form. Most the key and most important of not only Rashford has struggled. Even one of the GOAT of football in Ronaldo had struggled after his come back to Old Trafford. It just show how much United attacking players are so depend on the top service their get from midfield, full back and ball playing CBs. To be honest. United collective playing is so poor. Bringing me thoughts back the time before Bruno joined United. Ole was close to got sack then. After the Burnley lost. Then came mister Bruno. The qualities of the service and build up the attack improve a lot with Bruno. But still not enough to this date, obviously.
United is lacking top creative and quality midfield players. And full offensive full back like Liverpools and City Cancelo. So playing as CF for City, if a CF that has reach this level and joined City. It will not be the most difficult job he will get.
So back to Ten Hag. I am sure he will get the best out of Rashford. Use his strenght and what he is best at. Like receiving trough balls against a high back line from the left. And come up one one one against the goalkeeper. I think like Haller and Tadic. He will use players at theirs best positions and get the best out of them.
He has done with Tadic to Haller. So i believe Ten Hag will se United is lacking consistent top quality service from midfield and full back players. If Ten Hag buy and bring one or 2 really good midfield players and strenght United others weak or not top positions. Then Ten Hag will succeed.
Ten Hag or which others managers. They need to bring top qualities midfield players with them. Include RW too. If Sancho will still play as LW. United have many positions where they can improve and strenght. I think Ten Hag will need 2 summer windows to make United close to complete as a team. Top 2 and 3 is possible next season with Ten Hag. And i am sure United will play better as a team next season. And it will help and affect the invidual performances too.
But lately i have observed that Ten Hag has switched from Dutch total football 433 to 4231. So it might has affect on the results and cleen sheet. Ajax is starting to conceed more goals now than earlier. So if Ten Hag knows total football 433 in and out. He should believe on it. Its all about. Back to basis. Get the best and right players for each posititions and role in that 433 formation.
From out of Ten Hag, Poch and The Saints Ralph. With the case of Haller and Tadic. I could see clearly most the improvement of the players. To be honest not much improvement of Poch with PSG players. The natural problem with coaching world class or close to world class. The room for improvement is lesser. Because they are close to complete. Its like reaching the top of the mountain. Its difficult to retain the top poin/max level. Because its only one way down.
And Ralph with Saints. I didnt follow Livramento and Broja to know how much they has improve and develop to the better. Its harder to judge and rate Ralph on that. But the clearly the intensity, aggresive and hard work with Southampton as team. The collective i have seen improvement. Like playing against Spurs, not far away. They bossed and dominate Spurs most of the match. It is a good ability and coaching from the manager.
But i based on who have get the best out of his players. My biggest reason and factor when i rate and hire a manager. And its where Ten Hag score highest. And reason i vote for him, Ten Hag as United next head coach.
I've wanted Ten Hag for years.1st choice.
But lets be honest, any of the regular mentioned managers would be an upgrade on what we've had since 2013. Out his depth Moyes, outdated LVG who sabotaged himself in the transfer market, Jose's biennial implosion and an over acheiving United fan.
I'll be disapointed if it's Poch, but non of the options are bad options.
But lets be honest, any of the regular mentioned managers would be an upgrade on what we've had since 2013. Out his depth Moyes, outdated LVG who sabotaged himself in the transfer market, Jose's biennial implosion and an over acheiving United fan.
I'll be disapointed if it's Poch, but non of the options are bad options.
VDS went to university to study the role and you’ll find in Bayern a lot of there roles require an apprenticeship I.e. if Fletcher was to work under Rangnick. But you are right it’s not something that comes with experience but job titles are normally rolled out correctly. Not putting cones out and getting yellow cards in Champs League games.
Well alot of these journalists along with their reports are constantly saying how worried United are because they want it done asap. Yes it would have helped because they also constantly say we want to press ahead with drawing up our summer plans but can't because we don't know who the manager is going to be. So if we had started this process months ago by now we would have easily known who it was and could have been well into drawing up our summer plans, which is possible considering Barcelona and Real Madrid and others already seem to be snapping up players. So yes, I feel like it would have helped, but instead they are starting now and drawing it out
I'm curious about your previous post. What role did Fergie turn down after his retirement?
Fred The Red apprentice.
Absolutely, this is the first time we look like we're actually going to be appointing a manager in their prime and also of high quality, LvG and Mourinho were of high quality but past their prime and Moyes and Solskjaer were in their prime but weren't high quality. At the very least, all the candidates check those two boxes.
Maybe, but it would be nice if he comes as a league winning manager.
ETH is a done dealio.
I’m sorry but having a marketing degree does not qualify you to be a marketing director of a massive company.
Fletcher is currently a coach because we lost three of our coaches and Rangnick couldn’t bring in many coaches of quality. Clubs in Germany also have technical directors sitting on the bench.
Exactamundo.
Fletch: ETH, want the job? Nah? Poch how about you? Enrique why you being quiet over there?
This is football not bloody BP ltd. It works abit different mate incase you didn’t know. My point was he still educated himself in that field. It’s kind of hard to find yourself a Ed Woodward who actually knows football to the level of VDS.
He couldn’t bring in coaches of quality so he got Fletcher? I mean Fletcher’s quality level is debatable considering he ain’t done nothing coaching wise.
I think it’s time to realise that this is happening. Only a matter of time. Ten Hag has been thoroughly named checked the last couple of days when there is no need to
John Murtough's body of work started in the 90s when he was part of the Everton team at youth level that guided Everton to a FA Youth Cup win in 1998 and then in subsequent years he was hired by other clubs to not only revamp the youth structures at their respective clubs but also modernise them when it comes to scouting and the use of data analytics. Murtough absolutely crushes Butt when it comes to experience and expertise at overseeing the football operations side at youth level and is vastly experienced at making the correct hire calls. So it's not a surprise that when the restructuring was complete in July 2019, Murtough brought in Nick Cox to manage the academy due to his experience at other clubs and moved Butt on to a different role.
How was Butt more qualified than Fletcher in his role? Does just being there as a coach at Youth level make him feel entitled?
Whoo, philosophy time..again !
I feel like it’s a shit PR stunt by us if we’re actually doing a road trip around Europe, doing interviews with all these managers who are already in roles. How do the other teams feel about it?
Is this all a PR stunt itself to make it look like we know what we’re doing? There were early reports of us meeting ETH on Monday which turned out to be true when more recognised sources reported it, yet I haven’t seen anyone saying when we’re meeting the other candidates. All I’ve seen is stuff about meeting ETH.
My guess is we’ve already spoke with all the candidates and we met ETH this week because he was the one we really liked, but to seem respectful to the other candidates, we’ve made it look like we’re considering all options (even though we’ve already made the decision).
Is this all a PR stunt itself to make it look like we know what we’re doing? There were early reports of us meeting ETH on Monday which turned out to be true when more recognised sources reported it, yet I haven’t seen anyone saying when we’re meeting the other candidates. All I’ve seen is stuff about meeting ETH.
My guess is we’ve already spoke with all the candidates and we met ETH this week because he was the one we really liked, but to seem respectful to the other candidates, we’ve made it look like we’re considering all options (even though we’ve already made the decision).
A Dutch journalist on SSN saying ETH has 2 other offers from Champions league teams, and he knows he is very excited about 1 of the offers, if that’s true then It’s not as cut and dry as some are making out
Did anyone notice or see United’s official you tube channel put up a video of Stewart Gardner with Wes brown , Danny webber and Charlotte duncker openly debating about who will be United’s new manager ? 
And they chose two options Pochettino and Ten hag. How they are discussing it so openly ? I was shocked. Never seen anything like it. An official club channel having a managerial debate. Is it to know the mood amongst the fans or is it because it’s done dealio ? Surely it’s only between Poch and ETH now given the club itself confirming the names and discussing about them ?
And they chose two options Pochettino and Ten hag. How they are discussing it so openly ? I was shocked. Never seen anything like it. An official club channel having a managerial debate. Is it to know the mood amongst the fans or is it because it’s done dealio ? Surely it’s only between Poch and ETH now given the club itself confirming the names and discussing about them ?
There si nothing wrong with philosophy. It's about time this club gets with the modern times and establishes one. Van Gaal had the right idea, but he was so out of touch by that point that it wasn't worth it.
Butt was promoted to head of first team development, not dissimilar to the role Fletcher walked into without earning his dues at the club like Butt did. Butt did a fine job as academy manager for four years after taking over from Brian McClair in 2016. When he left his role united topped rankings in England for having the most productive academy. Fruits of his labor not Cox who spent less time in the role and shouldn't take the credit for Butts work. Not to say Cox isn't good at his job
https://trainingground.guru/articles/manchester-united-top-2020/21-academy-productivity-rankings.
To hell with Murtough. He's simply another yes man and political mouthpiece for the Glazers and Rangknick won't be allowed to perform his 'consultancy' role to his own liking. That's how I see things until proven otherwise
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Van der Sar completed a master’s degree in Sports and Brand Management at the Johan Cruyff Institute. Throw in he was a product of Ajax Academy. So the guy went to a high level Sports Marketing Masters program and knew the club from the inside... I think it make him way more qualified than anyone on our staff.
Found on: https://leadersinsport.com/leaders-events/leaders-week-direct/speakers/edwin-van-der-sar/
100% agree. Decent RB, but everything else...
Butt built a good foundation but Cox took over and vastly improved it. We also brought in Bout and de Regt at a similar time, Butt was the odd one out and was seen as the one lacking experience which is what eventually cost him the promotion that Murtough got.
I don't get the moaning here.
Understand when it was back when we seemed to have no clue but we seem to actually be making football decisions and have been for last while we the changes off the pitch, and seem to be making the right move with the new manager meant to be coming in. Strange to be moaning about the folk who seem to be making it happen but don't have the qualifications or clue as you seem to think they don't have.
Strange posts
And in turn Butt was overlooked for the technical director position which he's more qualified for than Fletcher. Seems Butt was the odd one out indeed, the one who got fecked
What a curve ball that would be if he takes a job elsewhere and turns us down. I would love to see the fallout on here!
Butt was moved to a head of first team development role, which is what? It's a role where one is tasked with helping the youth players bridge the gap between the youth and first team. Justin Cohcrane is in that role right now.
We topped the productivity rankings at youth level in 2021, which is two years after Nick Cox was appointed as the Academy manager. Most of our current best youth players like Hannibal, Garnacho, Fernandez, McNeill etc were signed under Nick Cox as the academy manager.
I couldn't care less about Rangnick's consultancy role. The success to having a successful recruitment policy is to have a streamlined approach to recruitment where everyone is on the same page. Rangnick himself was guided by his own adviser Helmut Gross in his career and its the ideas of Gross that he's implemented, which are if simply put, a uniformed approach to recruitment. And he did that whilst being backed by two sugar daddy owners at Hoffenheim and RB Leipzig. The Leipzig owner is one of the wealthiest owners in the game with a estimated net worth of £20 billion.
No wonder he left.
What's Butt doing now? I assume he was in high demand.
Trying to stay out of jail
You aren't even making any sense no more.
The hell with Murtough
You literally haven't a clue what his Job or role is or has been, or his past achievements, but he a yes man and political mouthpiece......literally just making it up at the moment.
Basically anyon employed at the club is a yes man going by your logic here
Good post
From what I've read, Derek Langley and Butt were struggling with a ever growing revamp/restructuring that was taking place and it wasn't until Henny de Regt arrived that we stabilised the academy. Which isn't a surprise due to Henny de Regt's experience in such roles.
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