Those are club legends of course but I don't see things the same way. I've always liked PSV but actually loved watching Ajax. When I was a kid Ajax was actually my second favorite club and I followed them heavily under LVG. Van Der Sar, Seedorf, Kluivert, Litmanen, Davids, Danny Blind, Musampa, Kanu, the De Boer twins, Reiziger, Sillooy, Rijkaard. This is easily my favorite squad with the most likeable group of individuals (outside my favorite united teams) I've watched in my lifetime
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Those are club legends of course but I don't see things the same way. I've always liked PSV but actually loved watching Ajax. When I was a kid Ajax was actually my second favorite club and I followed them heavily under LVG. Van Der Sar, Seedorf, Kluivert, Litmanen, Davids, Danny Blind, Musampa, Kanu, the De Boer twins, Reiziger, Sillooy, Rijkaard. This is easily my favorite squad with the most likeable group of individuals (outside my favorite united teams) I've watched in my lifetime
sigh
The Athletic keeps hammering Poch's name, so it's probably him. Proper Glazer appointment.
Pochetinno is the obvious choice for me. He'll work wonders here
There are only two serious candidates, ETH and MP. It would be a shame if we missed out on ETH, but if it had to be MP I’m confident we could at least challenge for fourth place. But I see no chance of us competing for the PL trophy under Pochettino.
Mate I’m just messing around with you!!
But in that point. Don’t let us forgot PSV brought us Romario and R9.
No worries mate I was just sharing my past affinity to Ajax. Fyenoord is the only one of the big three in Eridivisie Ive never particularly cared about but they produced some fine players themselves. Can't forget where those Brazilian legends got their start in Europe!
I'm more concerned about seeing proper football first before we even think about challenging again. We're a big name club with big money but we need to take a step back and get back to actually making it about the game. The rest will follow. I think Pochettino can take us there. I wouldn't be mad at ETH either
Those list of players were phenomenal and the second generation later on from Chivu, Van Der Vaart, Sneijder, Zlatan, Van De Mayde was also good times.
Why’s everyone loving potter so much? They’ll be the same people that want him out when he’s useless in the champions league for us because he’s got lack of experience. Ten Haag or Enrique would be perfect. But I think the board are going to go for poch because it’s the easiest option… he’d jump at the chance to come back to England.
Definitely! That footballing talent conveyor belt out of Holland in general is something else
Pochettino gets quite a bit of stick for his final season at Spurs (18/19) where they ended up 71 points. I find it a bit interesting to compare it with Liverpool last year where Liverpool ended up with 69 points.
A lot was said from pundits and LFC-fans on how injuries was at fault for a poor season. Liverpool had 8 players (Alisson, TAA, Robertson, Winjaldum, Salah, Mane, Fabinho and Firmino) with more than 2550 min in the PL. More than 75 % of the total minutes in a PL season. Three of them, Robertson, Salah and TAA) where on more than 3 000 min and four with more than 2800 min. Fabinho where on 2565 minutes.
Spurs in 18/19 had three players with more than 2550 min, Lloris, Toby and Eriksen. Kane was 4th on minutes played at 2427 min. Trippier played 2278 min. Son played 2040 min. Sanchez, Vertonghen, Alli, Rose, Winks and Dier played less than 2000 min.
Spurs had a very thin squad and so much injuries. And looking back on that squad, I think quite a few of those players was very overrated at the time. Pochettino was in charge of a team with very limited resources, and I supect quite a few fail to recognize or forget just how limited they were compared to the rest of the top 6
My biggest concern on Pochettino is his record against top 6. But I do suspect it is a bit like the old myth about Klopp in finals. Klopp also had a PPM against Bayern (with Dortmund) of 1,31 PPM. Won 9, drew 3 and lost 10.
A lot was said from pundits and LFC-fans on how injuries was at fault for a poor season. Liverpool had 8 players (Alisson, TAA, Robertson, Winjaldum, Salah, Mane, Fabinho and Firmino) with more than 2550 min in the PL. More than 75 % of the total minutes in a PL season. Three of them, Robertson, Salah and TAA) where on more than 3 000 min and four with more than 2800 min. Fabinho where on 2565 minutes.
Spurs in 18/19 had three players with more than 2550 min, Lloris, Toby and Eriksen. Kane was 4th on minutes played at 2427 min. Trippier played 2278 min. Son played 2040 min. Sanchez, Vertonghen, Alli, Rose, Winks and Dier played less than 2000 min.
Spurs had a very thin squad and so much injuries. And looking back on that squad, I think quite a few of those players was very overrated at the time. Pochettino was in charge of a team with very limited resources, and I supect quite a few fail to recognize or forget just how limited they were compared to the rest of the top 6
My biggest concern on Pochettino is his record against top 6. But I do suspect it is a bit like the old myth about Klopp in finals. Klopp also had a PPM against Bayern (with Dortmund) of 1,31 PPM. Won 9, drew 3 and lost 10.
Yeah underwhelming whilst Ten Hag replaces Pep and we suffer at the hands of him too
Sheldon has been a Southampton correspondent since his days with the Southern Echo, covering the club. So I'm suspicious that he's trying to play up Pochettino's chances.
I don't think there's a favourite as things stand. And it wouldn't surprise me if the new appointment is someone outside of Pochettino/ten Hag.
Wouldn't mind if it was Enrique or Nagelsmann but don't see either leaving Spanish national team or Bayern soon
Then whats the point of even considering MP? We are competing for 4th now as it is. If not ETH, then has to be another manager who can get this side to compete for trophies.
The bit about Klopp wanting a DoF model is the telling bit in the video. And then Liverpool promoting Edwards to the position of Sporting director and Klopp giving him and his team free reign to sign players for the blueprint that Klopp set-out is the big difference.
That then created a streamlined approach to recruitment and the much maligned and ridiculed Edwards became a genius.
If only our board thought like that, like I say Rangnick needs to keep banging the Ten Hag drum louder so they are deafened
Agreed.
I also really like what I've seen of Domenico Tedesco, who's currently the head coach of RB Leipzig and is 36 years old. He looks like someone that is gonna be world class potentially and is very good at coaching a compact low/mid and high compact block, with high intensity.
I wonder how some people are going to cope when the club appoint Pochettino. It's pretty clear and obvious to me that they'll go for him in the summer. He's been a target of theirs for long and have kept pursuing him. And as far as they're concerned he's far safer than any unproven names the Caf love throwing around. People thinking the club would go for ETH over Poch, a far more proven coach are in for a shock.
After the failure that Ole's appointment turned out to be and all their appointments in general the last 9 or so years, I don't see how the club would risk going for another unproven PL manager(especially right after Ole) over one with a proven resume and experience in the PL, especially when that PL proven one has been a target of them for many years now. As soon as Poch becomes free in the summer, the club will jump on him. People ought to stop deluding themselves with these "gambles" on ETH, as if the club wouldn't think more pragmatically and go for PL proven Poch whom they admire.
After the failure that Ole's appointment turned out to be and all their appointments in general the last 9 or so years, I don't see how the club would risk going for another unproven PL manager(especially right after Ole) over one with a proven resume and experience in the PL, especially when that PL proven one has been a target of them for many years now. As soon as Poch becomes free in the summer, the club will jump on him. People ought to stop deluding themselves with these "gambles" on ETH, as if the club wouldn't think more pragmatically and go for PL proven Poch whom they admire.
See, this is how some of you love inflicting misery upon yourselves. You've arbitrarily crowned ETH as the next Pep in your head which lead to you feeling down at the thought of him going to some other places.
This idea that seems to circulate around these boards that ETH would replace a Pep or Klopp then emulate them based on pretty much nothing is hilarious to me. You lots are a funny bunch.
It’s much more likely and logical to me that Enrique will take over from Pep.
Whilst it seems depressing, ETH is not improving on what Pep has done at City, and Poch is making us better than everyone post Fergie has managed, so City will get worse and we will get better if this happened, which it probably won't anyway.
Agreed. I just don't understand this site's fixation with ETH succeeding Pep at City.
Pep is a SAF like figure for them. They are definitely going to avoid our mistake in hiring a rookie manager and look for a proven manager to take over the reigns, someone who has both the reputation and success behind. Enrique fits the bill to a tee.
Not only does his contract expire the same year Pep's contract expires. He was also the only manager post Pep Barca that actually didn't underwhelm with the talent he had at his disposal. That and City are emulating peak Barca both playing style and appointment wise.
To me Enrique to City is a done deal.
The same thing was parroted out when Moyes came here. He had an equally abysmal record against the Top 6, yet people believed that once he will inherit a top squad he will turn into serial winner.
Also with regards to wages: I don't understand this argument. Yes, Spurs pay less wages to their players, because they are a smaller team, hence nobody expects them to pay insane wages like we do.
I assure you that if we were to sign the entire Spurs XI, those wages would have double right there, because we are Manchester United and everyone knows we have money. Same with City, Chelsea and to a lesser degree with Liverpool.
The point I'm trying to make is that wages =/ talent. Peak Kane, Son, Vertoghen and Alderweireld were WC players. Alli, Trippier, Walker, Rose, Lloris were players that would have improved an XI for most Top6 sides. Let's not pretend that Poch was managing the equivalent of current Soton.
He had a really good squad and took a team that consistently finished 5th to consistently finishing 3rd. That's it.
It is relevant because it is alot harder to build a top team with a lesser wage budget. If it was not, all teams would just refuse to pay up.
I also think very few of those players were any close to world class before Poch, and very few has been world class after. Some of them were at their peak age when he came in and had never been close to world class before that. Others should have entered peak age after he left, but stagnated quickly after 18/19. But yes, they were very good under Pochettino.
I think Pep once called Spurs a one-man team. Some took it as an insult, but he was probably right. And it was probably a compliment to the coach.
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Not getting Ten Hag will prove to be be a huge, huge mistake.
It will be Klopp 2.0. I know he chose pool, but same end results. Us shaking our fists at what could have been.
Absolutely. If we don’t get him he might replace Pep next season or the one after, and then god help us win a league with him and Klopp at our biggest rivals.
Genuine question: did you use google translate to post this?
I assume English is not your first language.
Free reign won't be given.
Definitely not going to happen.
That won't happen either.
I do agree with your plan, though.
My argument was that wages aren't necessarily reflective of a team's talent. Using wages a way to show why Poch overachieved is a bit moot, considering that most of those players were tied to them as they were entering their prime.
Spurs didn't have to compete with Real, United and Barca for established players. But Spurs also had some insanely good players at their disposal as Poch was hired. Someone like Harry Kane was on half the wages Sanchez was at United. You want to guess which one was considered the better player at the time?
Also Spurs weren't forced to sell their key players every year. Thanks to the financial muscle of the PL, they could demand insane prices for someone like Delli Alli(quoted at 100 mil at the time).
If anything that is a testament to how well run Spurs were at the time, more than how Poch was performing "miracles". As soon as Levy decided to humor Poch and give him more power over the transfers, everything went tits up. And Spurs' Galactico aproach has been a complete failure so far.
In my book it is more a testament of good recruitment, than good management.
On that I agree. Maybe he just stumbled across a really good bunch of players that Levy with some kind of fluke had managed to put together? A bunch where several would have become great or close to world class regardless of the coach. In my opinion, it did not look like that.
And with regards to transfers, I think «power» is kind of moot without capital;
As it doesn't really look like we will be in the top four come the end of the season I don't think we will have the choices people think.
Yes we have money to attract the top managers but that may not be enough to encourage the top guys to sully their name with our group of "players" for the next few years.
We are more toxic than enticing these days.
Yes we have money to attract the top managers but that may not be enough to encourage the top guys to sully their name with our group of "players" for the next few years.
We are more toxic than enticing these days.
He's a good coach, don't get me wrong. But under any half decent coach, Kane, Son and the like would have turned out quiet good. Even finished manager like Mourinho looked to have reignited Kane's career and Son continues to be good even to this day.
What I am saying is, spend, wages, etc is relative to what you are doing.
The reason United and Pool had to spend exorbitant amounts of money is because both were in a rebuild phase. United is in a rebuild phase to this day hence why we continue to spend money like drunken sailors.
Spurs didn't need a rebuild. They didn't need to replace Kane, Son Alderweirel, Verthogen Lloris, etc while Poch was there. Hence why the net spend is so low. You don't need to spend a billion if you already have an amazing group of players.
Your argument would have been better if Poch had Ten Hag like restrictions where he would lose his entire WC starting XI in a season and despite that kept Spurs in the exact spot. Now that would have definitely put me in the Poch camp.
He didn't, but Ten Hag did. And despite that Ten Hag is back in the CL knockout rounds with a far inferior Ajax team. That to me is a very impressive feat and shows that unlike Poch, not only Ten Hag knows how to operate when you lose your best players, but also he knows how to rebuild a team from scratch. Something he demonstrated at Utrecht as well before coming to Ajax. So it's not like it's just Overmars and the Ajax set up.
And while we are building a structure, we would definitely benefit from a manager who has more hands on control like Klopp than a pure coach like appointment like Pep, LvG and Tuchel.
Great post presenting the facts which seems to be overlooked everytime someone mention poch. Your concern about poch records with top 6, don't you think squad quality and spending should be taken into account? As you noted in another post, poch has nearly as much point as city and Liverpool, despite spending significantly less. Moreover, as we seen at his time at psg, his record against European elite is much stronger because he has a better squad. He has beaten real Madrid, Manchester city, juventus, bayern much, and much more with psg. A team like spurs has no right winning the league, reaching the champion league final or even having an amazing record against top six team unless they can lure more talented players and outspend their competition
See, this is how some of you love inflicting misery upon yourselves. You've arbitrarily crowned ETH as the next Pep in your head which lead to you feeling down at the thought of him going to some other places.
This idea that seems to circulate around these boards that ETH would replace a Pep or Klopp then emulate them based on pretty much nothing is hilarious to me. You lots are a funny bunch.
Think you will see in this thread alone that I'm not the only one who has concerns about him succeeding at a rival
We may to learn how to crawl before we learn how to walk. Do Pochettino if we must and in 2-3 seasons strike quickly for a top manager when the next Ten Hag emerges.
Not an optimal approach, mind you, but we may have no other choice.
Yeah much as I don't agree with this idea I think there's a very strong chance of it happening, let's just hope there are some attractive prospects when that time comes
But they did have to get or develop these players. And I think very few Spurs-players where considered «amazing» when he came in.
Vertonghen, at the age of 26 for instance, where not very highly rated at all. I remember Alderweireld well from both Ajax and Atletico, and there was a reason he ended up in a newly promoted club like Southampton. And both of them looked really average as the age of 30 and 32 as soon as he left. Same with a bunch of other players at Spurs.
In my opinion, there is a bit of revisionism calling that squad amazing. Pochettino, in my opinion, took charge of a mediocer squad and made them look a lot better.
The squad Poch inherited finished 4th 5th 6th 5th 5th. It was a Top 6 team not some relegation fodder that Poch had to transform into a top team.
He is a good coach, but just not good enough for a top team in my book. His time at PSG kind of proves that. If you think that coming to United who is also a circus at the moment and yet the outcome will be different then I have some bad news for you.
Chelsea with less net spend have 2 PL titles and a couple of cups. What has Poch have to show for his time at Spurs? A top 4 cup? And please don't give me the "Spurs is a small club" when he had the squad he did. The odd FA/League Cup should have been a bare minimum in addition to the Top4.
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