Next Man Utd Manager Expected To Be Jose Mourinho Or David Moyes

Sky1981 said:
So you want all that , on top of that develops youth, having believe in club's history, system, shrewd in transfer, people's favorite, not being a cnut, humble, proven winner?


Yeah.. no shit sherlock, who's that might be?


The only one that fits the bill is Hodgson minus the winner part
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter who it turns out to be. It most certainly isn't Mourinho that's for sure, a mercenary interested only in cementing his own reputation often at the expense of everybody else is not what i want. I'm sorry if you don't agree, you have your opinions on what standard of man as well as manager you want to see succeed SAF and i have mine.

The only difference is my choice encompasses keeping with the traditions of our club, yours is simply about winning trophies.

Many are under the impression that the only way to win is the Mourinho way, i contest that and do not think he is the only choice. I like the look of Villas Boas atm, he allows his players freedom to play and is more interested in the natural development of players, than his own legacy.

That's the type of man i want at OT after Fergie, what's wrong with that?
 
Raoul said:
Nothing wrong with Villas Boas. He looks to be a rising star in the managing world.
Click to expand...

agreed, looks the bizniz - would like him to go to atleast one 'big' club though just to see what he's really like tbh
 
apotheosis said:
It doesn't matter who it turns out to be. It most certainly isn't Mourinho that's for sure, a mercenary interested only in cementing his own reputation often at the expense of everybody else is not what i want. I'm sorry if you don't agree, you have your opinions on what standard of man as well as manager you want to see succeed SAF and i have mine.

The only difference is my choice encompasses keeping with the traditions of our club, yours is simply about winning trophies.

Many are under the impression that the only way to win is the Mourinho way, i contest that and do not think he is the only choice. I like the look of Villas Boas atm, he allows his players freedom to play and is more interested in the natural development of players, than his own legacy.

That's the type of man i want at OT after Fergie, what's wrong with that?
Click to expand...

Nothing is wrong with that, but traditions etc won't exist if we don't continue our succes.

many teams have been founded as long as us or even longer than us, not many recognises them. It's continuity above all else.

Now what is Mourinho way? What is freedom of play? What is natural development of players?

Mourinho legacy :
1. Porto - self believe, they can do it as well after being meh for so long
2. Chelsea - Self believe as well, for all the money in the world citeh hasn't managed to win the EPL, Jose with Chelsea did, 2 times, and long after that they don't crumble down
3. Inter - Treble, TRE feckING BLE - for a considered outsider Inter team winning the EC alone is a big thing, he won them the treble
4. Madrid - Much to see, but so far he taught them team work, and unity.

I really don't see what's wrong with his attitude, our SAF can be cnuts at times.

But then again, i suspect you hate him more than average
 
apotheosis said:
I know what your point was Siorac, i just simply don't agree with it. When we won in 07/08, we had Tevez and Rooney up front Ronaldo one side, Nani or Giggs the other and Scholes and Carrick in the middle.

That is 5 predominantly attacking players and 5 defensive ones. Considered by most to be an extremely attacking line up. Contrast this to mourinho at chelsea who played Drogba up front on his own, with Lampard supporting, the rest of the midfielders were made up of people whose main responsibility was to defend, rather than attack. Hence why people like Robben and duff were reduced to bit part players after the first season. Admittedly a wide player or full back would offer occasional support to the attack, but as i say the general overview of all mourinho's sides has been cautious, if not negative.

As i have repeatedly pointed out, even though our current team is not packed with flair, the predominant mindset is still to attack, we started this season with Berbatov, Rooney, Nani, Valencia and Scholes in the starting line up, with only fletcher as a more defensive minded player. If we throw in Evra's usual role that can easily be streched to 6 attack minded players.

So i see your point Siorac i really do, but i just can't agree with it. We have repeatedly picked teams with almost as many attackers as defenders, whereas Mourinho has consistently picked teams with only 2 or 3 attacking players compared to 7/8 defensive ones.

Can you not see the difference that makes to the mentality of a team? We set up to try to win, Mourinho sets up to try not too lose.

Even by your own admission, this year Mourinho has started with mainly 3 fromHiguain, Benzema, Ronaldo, Ozil or Di Maria. Whichever 3 are chosen they are Madrid's only serious attacking threats, the rest are there to give them a solid platform from which to perform from.

You say fergie has been building a mourinho like side for a decade, but again i don't agree. We have undoubtedly over the years based much more emphasis on defending as well as attacking, but i do not accept for a second that apart from huge away games, we hardly ever place more emphasis on defence than upon attack.

You seem to be confusing not having the quality to break teams down, with not actually attempting too. We simply do not have creative players of sufficient quality centrally to be as effective as we could be. Our midfield needs improving and once we do improve this area, we will again return to being more effective in our mostly creative and attacking approach, that we have still attempted this year, but has been somewhat masked by our inability to turn our possession into great chances or goals.
Click to expand...

Seriously dude, anything but that.....

That man have won more than any manager on earth for the duration of his tenure, and you're saying he doesn't play to win?
 
Sky1981 said:
Nothing is wrong with that, but traditions etc won't exist if we don't continue our succes.

many teams have been founded as long as us or even longer than us, not many recognises them. It's continuity above all else.

Now what is Mourinho way? What is freedom of play? What is natural development of players?

Mourinho legacy :
1. Porto - self believe, they can do it as well after being meh for so long
2. Chelsea - Self believe as well, for all the money in the world citeh hasn't managed to win the EPL, Jose with Chelsea did, 2 times, and long after that they don't crumble down
3. Inter - Treble, TRE feckING BLE - for a considered outsider Inter team winning the EC alone is a big thing, he won them the treble
4. Madrid - Much to see, but so far he taught them team work, and unity.

I really don't see what's wrong with his attitude, our SAF can be cnuts at times.

But then again, i suspect you hate him more than average
Click to expand...

Your suspicions are too simplistic, i don't hate him Sky, but i have real concerns over the long term effects someone with his management style and behaviour will have on our club. I openly admit i am not a fan of how his teams play, and i strongly dissaprove of how he conducts himself, especially before and after big games mostly in the CL.

My main concern specifically is if we consider how he usually operates, if he were to come to OT and stay for a couple of seasons which is up to this point round about his average. We may win everything during this time, but what then?

You talk of continuity but he is not a manager like Fergie, he is a short term coach, who would usually require massive financial investment to bring the swift success you and others who sahre your mindset so strongly desire. He will not implement any plans for the future, he is all about providing success quickly during his tenure, not preparing infrastructure for long term success.

So your idea of continuity is to replace Fergie with Mourinho and then continue to win for 2-3 years. Fair enough, but then what?

My argument is that Fergie has spent many years implementing a long term sustainable plan for continued success which has proven to be very successful over a long period. So why should we throw all that out the window for a couple of years of success under Mourinho?

I simply want a manager who will continue our method of success in a similar fashion to Fergie. We may have to endure a couple of seasons of transition but if Fergie's plan is adhered to, i see no reason why another manager cannot come in and once he gets to grips with the way we work, can then continue what Fergie has painstakingly implemented.

I worry that the clamour for trophies after SAF goes could lead the club into employing Mourinho, who will disregard our current infrastructure to implement his own trusted methods. We may well be successful, but our funds are limited and i believe we could easily find ourselves in a similar position to Liverpool, blinded by an early CL success yet ending up with no youth policy, no money and no direction.

Have we then a Dalglish type figure who can come in and revive the spirit and traditions of our club, like he has done for the scousers? Like it or not Sky, we do have our individual spirit and traditions and we do represent the people of our city. If we give all that up for a couple of years success, where will that leave us?
 
Sky1981 said:
Seriously dude, anything but that.....

That man have won more than any manager on earth for the duration of his tenure, and you're saying he doesn't play to win?
Click to expand...

Come on Sky, you know what i am suggesting. I am not saying he isn't interested in winning, of course he is. It is about how much of his team he allocates to attack, as opposed to defence which imo better determines his overall philosophy.

Look at Spurs last season when they qualified for the CL at the expense of City. City had a slight advantage going into the last few games and i think most would agree Spurs had a more difficult run in playing a good few of the top teams.

Mancini was too cautious and concentrated too few players in attack, subsequently got too many draws and failed to qualify. Spurs on the other hand simply went for it, they attacked every team they played and got what they deserved for their efforts imo.

That was my point and i stand by it, if you allocate only 2 players to attack and 8 to defence you will undoubtedly end up with an offensively negative outlook from your players. Even committing just 2 more players to attack will significantly increase the amount of time during a game where your team is attacking the opposition, rather than merely attempting to nullify them.
 
Ferguson is a one-off. It's unrealistic to expect any manager to stay for a prolonged period of time at a club like he has.
 
Raoul said:
Both Fergie and Wenger were successful before the new instant gratification construct. I doubt both clubs will ever have managers who remain on the job as long as them.
Click to expand...

I think both clubs realise the benefit of having a manager in long term. I would imagine both would be looking to find someone similar, especially as it makes economic sense.

I wonder how much Chelsea have paid out on hiring and firing managers in recent years?
 
datura said:
I think both clubs realise the benefit of having a manager in long term. I would imagine both would be looking to find someone similar, especially as it makes economic sense.

I wonder how much Chelsea have paid out on hiring and firing managers in recent years?
Click to expand...

More than likely over 100m. No one signs a 1 year contract. Except probably, Avram Grant. Everyone else signed a 3 year contract and most don't make it out of the first year. Carlo is the second longest at 2 years since Ambrovich. Tied with the tinkerman I believe.
 
apotheosis said:
Come on Sky, you know what i am suggesting. I am not saying he isn't interested in winning, of course he is. It is about how much of his team he allocates to attack, as opposed to defence which imo better determines his overall philosophy.

Look at Spurs last season when they qualified for the CL at the expense of City. City had a slight advantage going into the last few games and i think most would agree Spurs had a more difficult run in playing a good few of the top teams.

Mancini was too cautious and concentrated too few players in attack, subsequently got too many draws and failed to qualify. Spurs on the other hand simply went for it, they attacked every team they played and got what they deserved for their efforts imo.

That was my point and i stand by it, if you allocate only 2 players to attack and 8 to defence you will undoubtedly end up with an offensively negative outlook from your players. Even committing just 2 more players to attack will significantly increase the amount of time during a game where your team is attacking the opposition, rather than merely attempting to nullify them.
Click to expand...

i understand, maybe.

I too value our tradition, history, and culture. But without a 20/20 hindsight, I also have fear that post SAF things will get turbulence and rocky, the press will have their field day shreding us to pieces for every things that's not going our way, heck press are doing it even now while the great Don is still here.

THe pressure of managing United is immense, people will always comparing whoever it is with SAF, and there are hungry wolves there waiting to be proven correctly.

While I would love to give people favorite's like Keane, Giggs, Scholes, Ole, etc a try and yes I would have prefer them on the helm for all the romantic side, but this is real world, the stake are too big, it's not about trophy, but continuity, continuation of a legacy built by Busby all the way till SAF's legacy.

What I fear more than a cnutish manager at helm is a clueless manager, we have never had that fear for a long time with SAF at the helm, but once he's gone, doubts and fear will creep in.

The 5 years after the great SAF is the most crucial, it will define whether we have the believe that we can do it without SAF, and god forbid we win something after it , the domination will long continue. That is my first and foremost worry. It'll be a 5 year that defines the outcome of the next 20 years, and for my love of United I wouldn't wanna risk it for somebody who's not even proven being able to handle the media, the pressure, the challenge.

Like it or not, there's only one logical candidate and it's JM.

Villa Boas, Blanc, Pep - Are all probably good managers, but JM is a damn great manager and have been proven.

And again, the next 5 years after SAF will probably define many things
 
apotheosis said:
Your suspicions are too simplistic, i don't hate him Sky, but i have real concerns over the long term effects someone with his management style and behaviour will have on our club. I openly admit i am not a fan of how his teams play, and i strongly dissaprove of how he conducts himself, especially before and after big games mostly in the CL.

My main concern specifically is if we consider how he usually operates, if he were to come to OT and stay for a couple of seasons which is up to this point round about his average. We may win everything during this time, but what then?

Then the believe continue, that we can win post SAF, this is important as SAF has become part of almost all of our new generation fans, we can't afford a merry go round of managers every season

You talk of continuity but he is not a manager like Fergie, he is a short term coach, who would usually require massive financial investment to bring the swift success you and others who sahre your mindset so strongly desire. He will not implement any plans for the future, he is all about providing success quickly during his tenure, not preparing infrastructure for long term success.

1st. When you're new in a high profile job, you have to deliver success instantly, you don't expect JM to divulge a 10 year plan when he comes to Chelsea, Roman will probably think he's a nutter when he won't even guaranteed the next 3 years.

His time at Inter is quite promising, he build them again a collective team, performing and delivering, there's no major drama in the dressing room wherever he goes, imagine with cnuts like Eto'o, zlatan, matterazi, etc, it's not a small feat, while Blanc can't even manage one Evra on his side.

You must remember that our players weren't all saints, they behave because they respect the great man SAF and know that it's his way or the highway, imagine the lesser manager coming in and having to deal with Rooney and co

2nd. Let's not expect another like SAF, we're blessed to have him, but to ask for another SAF type of manager is asking for a miracle, I do believe in miracle, i just don't bet on it.
So your idea of continuity is to replace Fergie with Mourinho and then continue to win for 2-3 years. Fair enough, but then what?

My argument is that Fergie has spent many years implementing a long term sustainable plan for continued success which has proven to be very successful over a long period. So why should we throw all that out the window for a couple of years of success under Mourinho?

Would the new manager be given 5+ years of barren years to implement whatever he wishes? We took a great gamble back then with SAF, it pays off, but gamble doesn't always pays off. What's the guarantee that the next manager will want a 20+years contract?

I simply want a manager who will continue our method of success in a similar fashion to Fergie. We may have to endure a couple of seasons of transition but if Fergie's plan is adhered to, i see no reason why another manager cannot come in and once he gets to grips with the way we work, can then continue what Fergie has painstakingly implemented.

There are reasons why there are only a handful of long term managers in the world (Wenger/SAF), because not every manager have that capability to maintain their post, and out of a few that have not many of them aren't tempted to find new challenge, not many of them have the luxury and time, and patience allocated for them

I worry that the clamour for trophies after SAF goes could lead the club into employing Mourinho, who will disregard our current infrastructure to implement his own trusted methods. We may well be successful, but our funds are limited and i believe we could easily find ourselves in a similar position to Liverpool, blinded by an early CL success yet ending up with no youth policy, no money and no direction.

The him spending big is a myth, I can't be bothered to look at it closely, but IIRC his signing have been astute most of the time and cheap as well. He didn't sign all those Ronaldo, Kaka, what he signs he ussually put in great use.

Have we then a Dalglish type figure who can come in and revive the spirit and traditions of our club, like he has done for the scousers? Like it or not Sky, we do have our individual spirit and traditions and we do represent the people of our city. If we give all that up for a couple of years success, where will that leave us?
Click to expand...

Please answer this, out of LFC long glorious history, they only have one dalglish, out of our long and glorious history, we only have one SAF and matt Busby who's worhty of LEGEND status in managerial, who do you realistically expect?
 
Sky1981 said:
i understand, maybe.

I too value our tradition, history, and culture. But without a 20/20 hindsight, I also have fear that post SAF things will get turbulence and rocky, the press will have their field day shreding us to pieces for every things that's not going our way, heck press are doing it even now while the great Don is still here.

THe pressure of managing United is immense, people will always comparing whoever it is with SAF, and there are hungry wolves there waiting to be proven correctly.

While I would love to give people favorite's like Keane, Giggs, Scholes, Ole, etc a try and yes I would have prefer them on the helm for all the romantic side, but this is real world, the stake are too big, it's not about trophy, but continuity, continuation of a legacy built by Busby all the way till SAF's legacy.

What I fear more than a cnutish manager at helm is a clueless manager, we have never had that fear for a long time with SAF at the helm, but once he's gone, doubts and fear will creep in.

The 5 years after the great SAF is the most crucial, it will define whether we have the believe that we can do it without SAF, and god forbid we win something after it , the domination will long continue. That is my first and foremost worry. It'll be a 5 year that defines the outcome of the next 20 years, and for my love of United I wouldn't wanna risk it for somebody who's not even proven being able to handle the media, the pressure, the challenge.

Like it or not, there's only one logical candidate and it's JM.

Villa Boas, Blanc, Pep - Are all probably good managers, but JM is a damn great manager and have been proven.

And again, the next 5 years after SAF will probably define many things
Click to expand...

Fecking excellent post mate. Most people don't realise the shock the club will go through when SAF leaves and you need someone with a strong character and strong leadership skills to pull us through. JM will do just that as he will deflect the attention away from the team and the club onto him. Once we past the 3-5 year spell post SAF then I see no reason why we shouldn't go for an Ole or a Keane as manager.
 
Stretch said:
Fecking excellent post mate. Most people don't realise the shock the club will go through when SAF leaves and you need someone with a strong character and strong leadership skills to pull us through. JM will do just that as he will deflect the attention away from the team and the club onto him. Once we past the 3-5 year spell post SAF then I see no reason why we shouldn't go for an Ole or a Keane as manager.
Click to expand...

Oh i am fully aware of the shock, i am also aware that changing something that isn't broken in exchange for a couple of quick trophies, leaves an even bigger and longer lasting aftershock. Again look at Liverpool.

I'll tell you why, which is the whole basis of what my now voluminous series of posts to Sky, Raoul, Cal and others has been all about.

We will no longer have any infrastructure at the club if Mourinho comes in, because that is not how he works. As you and Sky have alluded to, the pressure will be even greater to succeed immediately if Mourinho comes in due to his previous record, therefore he will have to revert to his own tried and trusted methods of spending big to win quickly.

That will not really give him the opportunity to use our youth even if he had the initial desire to do so. We all say how brilliant Fergie has been, yet to dismiss the methods he has repeatedly used to attain continued success over long periods could be a huge mistake.

I say again look at Liverpool, they had success over 3 decades and only under Rafa did they change significantly and they paid a heavy price. Sometimes patience is required, you can't always have everything all at once.

When Mourinho took over at Chelsea we had to endure 2 years without any success, but the system Fergie had already put in place eventually outlasted then overtook Mourinho's methods. The fact we are still enjoying success now is testament to long term planning over short term fixes. That should at least give reasonable people some serious food for thought.
 
Sky1981 said:
Please answer this, out of LFC long glorious history, they only have one dalglish, out of our long and glorious history, we only have one SAF and matt Busby who's worhty of LEGEND status in managerial, who do you realistically expect?
Click to expand...

Think you have missed my point there Sky. My point was that Liverppol have had to go back to one of their own to get their sense of identity and spirit back. If we make the same mistakes they made, putting instant success over long term stability we do not have a Dalglish type figure who could come back in to do what he has done. That was my point.
 
apotheosis said:
Oh i am fully aware of the shock, i am also aware that changing something that isn't broken in exchange for a couple of quick trophies, leaves an even bigger and longer lasting aftershock. Again look at Liverpool.

I'll tell you why, which is the whole basis of what my now voluminous series of posts to Sky, Raoul, Cal and others has been all about.

We will no longer have any infrastructure at the club if Mourinho comes in, because that is not how he works. As you and Sky have alluded to, the pressure will be even greater to succeed immediately if Mourinho comes in due to his previous record, therefore he will have to revert to his own tried and trusted methods of spending big to win quickly.

That will not really give him the opportunity to use our youth even if he had the initial desire to do so. We all say how brilliant Fergie has been, yet to dismiss the methods he has repeatedly used to attain continued success over long periods could be a huge mistake.

I say again look at Liverpool, they had success over 3 decades and only under Rafa did they change significantly and they paid a heavy price. Sometimes patience is required, you can't always have everything all at once.

When Mourinho took over at Chelsea we had to endure 2 years without any success, but the system Fergie had already put in place eventually outlasted then overtook Mourinho's methods. The fact we are still enjoying success now is testament to long term planning over short term fixes. That should at least give reasonable people some serious food for thought.
Click to expand...

I can understand most of what you said but the highlighted parts are highly inaccurate to say the least.

Firstly, I think it has been pointed out countless times that Mourinho himself doesn't spend huge sums on flashy players. In fact most of Mourinho's signings have been astute and most have been successful. You are confusing the signings that were made before he joined Chelsea, before he joined Inter and before he joined Real. Lest we forget he won 2 European Cups and 2 Domestic cups with an 'average' Porto side, a Porto side that made us look pedestrian.

Secondly, SAF also revamped his squad with the likes of Tevez, Carrick and Hargreaves. Ronaldo became a beast and more importantly, Mourinho left Chelsea not out of his own choice but rather to satisfy Roman.

So from my perspective, the main elements you have highlighted can be overcome. But I fear we will be stuck in Limbo like the scousers if we don't go with a strong manager and a strong character like Mourinho once SAF goes. And in today's game where money plays a massive role, add our debt to that, it will be imperative that the team remains at the top echelons of English and European football.
 
Stretch said:
I can understand most of what you said but the highlighted parts are highly inaccurate to say the least.

Firstly, I think it has been pointed out countless times that Mourinho himself doesn't spend huge sums on flashy players. In fact most of Mourinho's signings have been astute and most have been successful. You are confusing the signings that were made before he joined Chelsea, before he joined Inter and before he joined Real. Lest we forget he won 2 European Cups and 2 Domestic cups with an 'average' Porto side, a Porto side that made us look pedestrian.

Secondly, SAF also revamped his squad with the likes of Tevez, Carrick and Hargreaves. Ronaldo became a beast and more importantly, Mourinho left Chelsea not out of his own choice but rather to satisfy Roman.

So from my perspective, the main elements you have highlighted can be overcome. But I fear we will be stuck in Limbo like the scousers if we don't go with a strong manager and a strong character like Mourinho once SAF goes. And in today's game where money plays a massive role, add our debt to that, it will be imperative that the team remains at the top echelons of English and European football.
Click to expand...

Some good points made there Stretch, which i agree with. Although the reason for leaving Chelsea was in my view, because he was bitching to the media that Roman had told him he had had enough money (Waitrose comments), so Roman told him to like it or lump it basically, and he lumped it.

The trouble i have, is say we did get Mourinho and we won the treble in his first year, where is the evidence he would stay? He has never stayed anywhere after a CL triumph. So what then?

I believe that is because he knows his style is not conducive to long term sustained success and that is why he quickly moves on soon after.

Short term fixes are never the answer, we have the plan already in place. We just need to find the right man who shares similar values to SAF to continue his work.

Guardiola has done similarly at Barca. Cruyff had the plan and Guardiola has implemented it. It's more about the strategy than the man imo.
 
apotheosis said:
Some good points made there Stretch, which i agree with. Although the reason for leaving Chelsea was in my view, because he was bitching to the media that Roman had told him he had had enough money (Waitrose comments), so Roman told him to like it or lump it basically, and he lumped it.

The trouble i have, is say we did get Mourinho and we won the treble in his first year, where is the evidence he would stay? He has never stayed anywhere after a CL triumph. So what then?

I believe that is because he knows his style is not conducive to long term sustained success and that is why he quickly moves on soon after.

Short term fixes are never the answer, we have the plan already in place. We just need to find the right man who shares similar values to SAF to continue his work.

Guardiola has done similarly at Barca. Cruyff had the plan and Guardiola has implemented it. It's more about the strategy than the man imo.
Click to expand...

attacking football, blooding youth.....bring guardiola then, he can bring a part of the cruyff school to OT and mix it with SAF's legacy and create a truly unstoppable club.
 
apotheosis said:
Some good points made there Stretch, which i agree with. Although the reason for leaving Chelsea was in my view, because he was bitching to the media that Roman had told him he had had enough money (Waitrose comments), so Roman told him to like it or lump it basically, and he lumped it.

The trouble i have, is say we did get Mourinho and we won the treble in his first year, where is the evidence he would stay? He has never stayed anywhere after a CL triumph. So what then?

I believe that is because he knows his style is not conducive to long term sustained success and that is why he quickly moves on soon after.

Short term fixes are never the answer, we have the plan already in place. We just need to find the right man who shares similar values to SAF to continue his work.

Guardiola has done similarly at Barca. Cruyff had the plan and Guardiola has implemented it. It's more about the strategy than the man imo.
Click to expand...

If he wins what he wants to win at Real Madrid before Sir Alex retires, where will he go if he's successful at United? There won't be anything else to achieve except building his dynasty.

His style is not conductive to long term success because that's the aim of every club that has appointed him in recent years. Chelsea, Inter & Real all demand success and that's what he's delivered (to some degree at Real).

How many managers have Barca gone through between Cruyff and Guardiola? How long and how much did they spend to get it right? Also, many will argue Barca are no this roll at the moment more due to their youth programme than anything else.
 
VoetbalWizard said:
attacking football, blooding youth.....bring guardiola then, he can bring a part of the cruyff school to OT and mix it with SAF's legacy and create a truly unstoppable club.
Click to expand...

Again, if Guardiola leaves Barca (his childhood club, and where he spents his entire top flight managerial coaching debut, won all, and if he leave them in 3 years time, what are the odds he's staying more than 5 at United?

apotheosis said:
Some good points made there Stretch, which i agree with. Although the reason for leaving Chelsea was in my view, because he was bitching to the media that Roman had told him he had had enough money (Waitrose comments), so Roman told him to like it or lump it basically, and he lumped it.

The trouble i have, is say we did get Mourinho and we won the treble in his first year, where is the evidence he would stay? He has never stayed anywhere after a CL triumph. So what then?

I believe that is because he knows his style is not conducive to long term sustained success and that is why he quickly moves on soon after.

Short term fixes are never the answer, we have the plan already in place. We just need to find the right man who shares similar values to SAF to continue his work.

Guardiola has done similarly at Barca. Cruyff had the plan and Guardiola has implemented it. It's more about the strategy than the man imo.
Click to expand...

If we won the treble or even sustaining the EPL title after SAF retire, that'll change the whole outcourse of the history. Imagine if Liverpool won a few title with Souness, it'll paint a whole different story, their domination will long continue, it give them believe most of all.

20+ years onwards what souness did still leave them with handicap, they know deep inside they're second best to United (at least since the dawn of Premier league)

As much as we value our tradition in attacking football, youth, history and stuff.. it only matters if you won something, Liverpool are not lesser than us when it terms to history and stuff, but do they get the recognition they deserve since our era of dominance? Sure, they still get plenty of overseas support, but they stem from older generations of fans which still sees their glory year.

If you're saying feck the overseas and glory hunter, sadly they're part of what makes a great club, because only great clubs attracts glory hunter, it'll be selfish thought to sacrifice everything just to preserve the other.

Glory won't be attained with attacking phylosophy only (see most spanish club, they're attacking but we don't even know much other than Barca, Madrid, Valencia, and perhaps some lesser teams), youth we have West Ham, Leeds, Arsenal who's pretty good in that department, but that alone won't class West ham in the same breath with United. It's trophy won, glory, second is nothing that makes Manchester United what it is today.

I'm not worried about plan, all great managers like Mourinho, Wenger, Dalglish, Cruyff won't get to where they are without plan, they too have plans, it's only whether they're given room to implement it. SHould the Glazer cut and chop every few years i don't think any manager can sustain and carry on with whatever plan SAF left behind.

But I know one thing, Mourinho have that resilience I haven't seen for all of my life watching football, the way he doesn't break his nerve when the whole media is against him, the way it doesn't effect his game plan, the way his player have faith in him (those at madrids are not an easy bunch to handle), his tactical nous, like I said, hindsight is a wonderful thing we don't have the luxury of having, which is why all and all he is still our best bet. He might not turns out to be the best, but not knowing the future he is our best bet.

SAF have all the luxury of managing United long enough for him to tell the media to feck off, and we listen to him, we're on his side, he's the good guys. But let's not be naive, the next man at helm will probably divide the forum ala hogdson pretty fast, not many questions SAF approach, no one dared as tehy've proven wrong time and times again. But with a new coach at the helm, the doom monger will be up in full force.

We need someone with JM's charisma to buy time for him to work, lesser manager won't have that. Imagine if the likes of Blanc, Ole, Giggs, Villa Boas, finishes 4th with United post SAF, it'll quickly spiral into doom prediction, and it'll in turn adding extra pressure, and the vicious cycle repeats.

With JM's resume and CV, we at least have a better faith in what he's capable of, irregardless of result.

Imo the most important traits is mental strenght above all else, Mental strenght is what buys SAF some time, or he probably would have resign years before we actually become good.

apotheosis said:
Think you have missed my point there Sky. My point was that Liverppol have had to go back to one of their own to get their sense of identity and spirit back. If we make the same mistakes they made, putting instant success over long term stability we do not have a Dalglish type figure who could come back in to do what he has done. That was my point.
Click to expand...

It was one of their own that dismantle their domination as well.
 
So we're looking for a Scottish manager with experience at a top club, knows how to win the league, knows British football and its history..

Dalglish anyone? :D
 
Whoever it is I just hope they continue our tradition of playing attacking football. Dave Sexton was the only manager I remember who played dull football. Sadly for me Jose teams are very boring to watch.
 
Sky1981 said:
Again, if Guardiola leaves Barca (his childhood club, and where he spents his entire top flight managerial coaching debut, won all, and if he leave them in 3 years time, what are the odds he's staying more than 5 at United?



If we won the treble or even sustaining the EPL title after SAF retire, that'll change the whole outcourse of the history. Imagine if Liverpool won a few title with Souness, it'll paint a whole different story, their domination will long continue, it give them believe most of all.

20+ years onwards what souness did still leave them with handicap, they know deep inside they're second best to United (at least since the dawn of Premier league)

As much as we value our tradition in attacking football, youth, history and stuff.. it only matters if you won something, Liverpool are not lesser than us when it terms to history and stuff, but do they get the recognition they deserve since our era of dominance? Sure, they still get plenty of overseas support, but they stem from older generations of fans which still sees their glory year.

If you're saying feck the overseas and glory hunter, sadly they're part of what makes a great club, because only great clubs attracts glory hunter, it'll be selfish thought to sacrifice everything just to preserve the other.

Glory won't be attained with attacking phylosophy only (see most spanish club, they're attacking but we don't even know much other than Barca, Madrid, Valencia, and perhaps some lesser teams), youth we have West Ham, Leeds, Arsenal who's pretty good in that department, but that alone won't class West ham in the same breath with United. It's trophy won, glory, second is nothing that makes Manchester United what it is today.

I'm not worried about plan, all great managers like Mourinho, Wenger, Dalglish, Cruyff won't get to where they are without plan, they too have plans, it's only whether they're given room to implement it. SHould the Glazer cut and chop every few years i don't think any manager can sustain and carry on with whatever plan SAF left behind.

But I know one thing, Mourinho have that resilience I haven't seen for all of my life watching football, the way he doesn't break his nerve when the whole media is against him, the way it doesn't effect his game plan, the way his player have faith in him (those at madrids are not an easy bunch to handle), his tactical nous, like I said, hindsight is a wonderful thing we don't have the luxury of having, which is why all and all he is still our best bet. He might not turns out to be the best, but not knowing the future he is our best bet.

SAF have all the luxury of managing United long enough for him to tell the media to feck off, and we listen to him, we're on his side, he's the good guys. But let's not be naive, the next man at helm will probably divide the forum ala hogdson pretty fast, not many questions SAF approach, no one dared as tehy've proven wrong time and times again. But with a new coach at the helm, the doom monger will be up in full force.

We need someone with JM's charisma to buy time for him to work, lesser manager won't have that. Imagine if the likes of Blanc, Ole, Giggs, Villa Boas, finishes 4th with United post SAF, it'll quickly spiral into doom prediction, and it'll in turn adding extra pressure, and the vicious cycle repeats.

With JM's resume and CV, we at least have a better faith in what he's capable of, irregardless of result.

Imo the most important traits is mental strenght above all else, Mental strenght is what buys SAF some time, or he probably would have resign years before we actually become good.



It was one of their own that dismantle their domination as well.
Click to expand...

Excellent post again. I think you've adressed most of the issues I see that will surface once SAF leaves. The character of the man who takes over has to be strong and proven.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.