Next Man Utd Manager Expected To Be Jose Mourinho Or David Moyes

Sir Alex may well be a managerial genius but he's not the greatest ambassador for United; however, the victims of his sometimes-brusque nature are often those who thoroughly merit this (the press, for example). But still, I always feel that he has his club's best interests at heart. Mourinho is a different case entirely: he might be enamoured of the United job simply because of the glamour attached to the position, the club's history etc etc but this doesn't benefit United - in the final analysis, it's all about him...

Real Madrid's former president Calderon hinted recently that the club had willingly handed power over to José in the pursuit of trophies and titles at all costs, at any cost. Other respected names, even the great Madrid legend Di Stefano, have bemoaned Mourinho's lack of regard for the sport and for Real's historic reputation of attacking football; do we want such a man at United?

It's a very modern phenomenon, aligned to a culture that's lost its way - the mantras are that 'winning is everything'; 'second is nowhere'; 'no-one remembers a loser' - and these are soulless soundbites that perfectly sum-up The Mourinho Way; it isn't The United Way though, no matter how many cups and baubles we win...

By appointing Mourinho, the powers-that-be at United will signal that success is all that counts, regardless of how it's attained. As at Real Madrid, our club's caretakers will have sold-out our history, our traditions, and Sir Alex's legacy. Despite some supporters' opinion that 'the club exists to win trophies', I believe that United's wellbeing - and the romance of Manchester United - are of greater importance. Though I guess that makes me an old-fashioned fool who's not a 'winner'...
 
SteveJ said:
Sir Alex may well be a managerial genius but he's not the greatest ambassador for United; however, the victims of his sometimes-brusque nature are often those who thoroughly merit this (the press, for example). But still, I always feel that he has his club's best interests at heart. Mourinho is a different case entirely: he might be enamoured of the United job simply because of the glamour attached to the position, the club's history etc etc but this doesn't benefit United - in the final analysis, it's all about him...

Real Madrid's former president Calderon hinted recently that the club had willingly handed power over to José in the pursuit of trophies and titles at all costs, at any cost. Other respected names, even the great Madrid legend Di Stefano, have bemoaned Mourinho's lack of regard for the sport and for Real's historic reputation of attacking football; do we want such a man at United?

It's a very modern phenomenon, aligned to a culture that's lost its way - the mantras are that 'winning is everything'; 'second is nowhere'; 'no-one remembers a loser' - and these are soulless soundbites that perfectly sum-up The Mourinho Way; it isn't The United Way though, no matter how many cups and baubles we win...

By appointing Mourinho, the powers-that-be at United will signal that success is all that counts, regardless of how it's attained. As at Real Madrid, our club's caretakers will have sold-out our history, our traditions, and Sir Alex's legacy. Despite some supporters' opinion that 'the club exists to win trophies', I believe that United's wellbeing - and the romance of Manchester United - are of greater importance. Though I guess that makes me an old-fashioned fool who's not a 'winner'...
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Well said SteveJ, and i couldn't agree more. However, unfortunately i fear that this obsession with winning at any cost is fast becoming the only consideration for many fans. Especially worrying are the younger fans who have missed out on the pre premiership days where football was still a game and not a business, who have no memory of a time when the FA cup final was the biggest event of the year regardless of who was in it.

Football has now increasingly become a lucrative business, run by businessmen interested only in profit or flexing their financial muscles. This is the core of the problem imo, when a game becomes more about the money involved than the game itself, it is no longer a sport but more specifically a business with sport as it's main product. Therefore the values associated with the sport are eventually replaced with the lack of moral ethics normally associated and accepted within everyday business practice.

In effect Mourinho and others of his type could perhaps be considered a product of the times. The increasingly desperate frenzied scramble for instant success without the time consuming considerations of future planning or infrastructure, simply fuels the requirement for a results based, unscrupulous, quick fix manager like Mourinho. He has no interest in the game, it's history or the fans. His only interest is what the game can do for him and he thrives on the desperation of those willing to sell their soul to the devil to win whatever the cost.

Will the Glazers become desperate enough for continued success after SAF retires to consider someone like Mourinho? Only God knows. But they are businessmen first and foremost, and they have no affinity with our club or it's fans, so unfortunately we cannot reasonably rule it out the possibility of such an appointment imo.

So while i echo your sentiments and share your concerns, i am forced to concede that the concerns of you and i and other old fashioned fools, will soon be reduced to little more than a nostalgic and idealistic indulgence, completely overwhelmed by the ever increasingly insistent demand for immediate success by any means necessary.
 
Moyes to win his first title for United by beating Chelsea on the final day of the season. He'll then replace Fergie in the summer.
 
holyland red said:
Moyes to win his first title for United by beating Chelsea on the final day of the season. He'll then replace Fergie in the summer.
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I wouldn't be against Moyes, i like the way he goes about his business. Imo, he shares many of SAF's values, is good in the transfer market and although untested at the highest level, i believe he would respect the club and what it stands for, which is a very important consideration for me personally.

My only worry is that even the great SAF needed time to establish his credentials at Utd. In this day and age that is a very rare commodity indeed. Moyes, i suspect would suffer a similar level of disrespect to that dished out to Hodgson at Liverpool. Quickly becoming a focal point for some fan's frustration from day one, as he is not the marquis name many fans will be hoping for.

Moyes with Giggs as his number 2 would be an interesting scenario, maybe the knowledge Giggs would be in line to eventually take over, may placate some of the more vociferous fans into allowing Moyes the time he would undoubtedly need.
 
holyland red said:
Moyes to win his first title for United by beating Chelsea on the final day of the season. He'll then replace Fergie in the summer.
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Wishful thinking. Moyes would be to us what Hodgson was to Liverpool.A manager out of his depth!
 
holyland red said:
Moyes to win his first title for United by beating Chelsea on the final day of the season. He'll then replace Fergie in the summer.
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If that's the case, it's more likely Mourinho wins his first CL for United by screwing Barca tonight, red cards or injuries...
 
apotheosis said:
Well said SteveJ, and i couldn't agree more. However, unfortunately i fear that this obsession with winning at any cost is fast becoming the only consideration for many fans. Especially worrying are the younger fans who have missed out on the pre premiership days where football was still a game and not a business, who have no memory of a time when the FA cup final was the biggest event of the year regardless of who was in it.

Football has now increasingly become a lucrative business, run by businessmen interested only in profit or flexing their financial muscles. This is the core of the problem imo, when a game becomes more about the money involved than the game itself, it is no longer a sport but more specifically a business with sport as it's main product. Therefore the values associated with the sport are eventually replaced with the lack of moral ethics normally associated and accepted within everyday business practice.

In effect Mourinho and others of his type could perhaps be considered a product of the times. The increasingly desperate frenzied scramble for instant success without the time consuming considerations of future planning or infrastructure, simply fuels the requirement for a results based, unscrupulous, quick fix manager like Mourinho. He has no interest in the game, it's history or the fans. His only interest is what the game can do for him and he thrives on the desperation of those willing to sell their soul to the devil to win whatever the cost.
Will the Glazers become desperate enough for continued success after SAF retires to consider someone like Mourinho? Only God knows. But they are businessmen first and foremost, and they have no affinity with our club or it's fans, so unfortunately we cannot reasonably rule it out the possibility of such an appointment imo.

So while i echo your sentiments and share your concerns, i am forced to concede that the concerns of you and i and other old fashioned fools, will soon be reduced to little more than a nostalgic and idealistic indulgence, completely overwhelmed by the ever increasingly insistent demand for immediate success by any means necessary.
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You're are completely correct about one thing - the days when football was a game played by people you knew, and "ordinary blokes" are long gone. It is indeed a business, and an enormous one at that.

Why some see this as a problem though I'm personally not sure. Some consider the 70's and 80's to be glory days of football - when players were all half pissed most of the time, many fans arguably nothing more than thugs dressed in designer gear and for United - success few and far between amid an era of diminance by Liverpool, who by buying the best players year on year had a monoploy as strong as United's.

My opinion (for what its worth) is that some of the sentimentality is misplaced, given that Football as a product - repackaged in the UK by Sky and largely followed the world over, is surely better in terms of entertainment that its ever been.

Its also easy to forget that United were at the forefront of the modern revolution in football, paying inflated sums for players in the Uk in the early to mid nineties, selling shirts all over the world and reaping the rewards at home - builiding a massive ground to bring in even more cash, buying the likes of Dong Fanzao and Ji Sung Park to shift even more merchandise in Asia and embarking on tours the world over in pre season.

As regards the club being succesful - suggesting a manager like Jose Mourinho is a "short term fix" does him a severe diservice. The man is a tactical genius who has had success wherever he goes and will continue to do so - be it in Italy, Spain or the PL, and by the end of his career will undoubtedly be considered one of, if not the best manager of all time.

You talk about a "win at all costs" mentality as if its a bad thing, when its exactly the reason why United have been so succesful under Fergie - indeed the similarities between Jose and Sir Alex are numerous: Both have tactical nouse, engage in mind games with other managers, are never afraid to speak their mind, always support their players when the chips are down. Both have been known to field negative formations in big games - knowing that a result is more imprtant than a "style" or performace, the fact being that both know how to win games, and win trophies. Most importantly both have the ability, personaility and confidence to carry the wight of expectation when things get tough.

This myth that United play with some pre ordained style or panache is just that. You only need to look at performaces this season to see it.

I'm constantly surprised by the fact that it seems some fans would rather the club be nearly men season on season. Like Arsenal it seems - playing with style but no end product.

It seems that that when Fergie goes some would rather the club take a huge leap of faith in an untested manager in what is undoubtedly the most difficult job in football in terms of pressure and expectation. Fact is if Jose doesn't end up at United and comes back to another PL club it'll make it even harder for United to maintain their success.
 
But barring of late we do play with style and panache. We die when it was busby babes, we did when it was the united trinity, we did when it was fergies fledgelings and we did when it was the rooney and ronaldo show.

Of late we haven't been at our swashbuckling best but we have generally always been a daring, attacking and entertaining football team that plays with a certain flair using width excellently.

Mourinho gets the results part absolutely right but he doesn't get his teams to entertain.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Mourinho gets the results part absolutely right but he doesn't get his teams to entertain.
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And that is the problem. The brilliant thing about Fergie is that he imbibed the whole ethos of MUFC, its history and traditions. He took on board everything that had been created during Busby's reign and re-developed it starting with the youth and then ensuring that his sides maintained the attacking, entertaining way of playing which had been such a feature of Busby's teams. One wonders how much of that ethos Mourinho would incorporate into his modus operandi or is winning, by whatever means, his only way ?

Having said that all this talk of Moyes or Bruce, Keane and Hughes for that matter is pure pie in the sky. Whoever takes over has to have a proven track record to get the respect of the high profile players at United and also have the personality to take on the whole ambit of managing United. Just taking over from Fergie is a huge task and it can't simply be given to anyone even if he has done a decent job somewhere else.
 
Julian Denny said:
And that is the problem. The brilliant thing about Fergie is that he imbibed the whole ethos of MUFC, its history and traditions. He took on board everything that had been created during Busby's reign and re-developed it starting with the youth and then ensuring that his sides maintained the attacking, entertaining way of playing which had been such a feature of Busby's teams. One wonders how much of that ethos Mourinho would incorporate into his modus operandi or is winning, by whatever means, his only way ?

Having said that all this talk of Moyes or Bruce, Keane and Hughes for that matter is pure pie in the sky. Whoever takes over has to have a proven track record to get the respect of the high profile players at United and also have the personality to take on the whole ambit of managing United. Just taking over from Fergie is a huge task and it can't simply be given to anyone even if he has done a decent job somewhere else.
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That part is just so spot on. It's the making of this club really, to win and do it in style. It's important those values and traditions are carried on.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
But barring of late we do play with style and panache. We die when it was busby babes, we did when it was the united trinity, we did when it was fergies fledgelings and we did when it was the rooney and ronaldo show.

Of late we haven't been at our swashbuckling best but we have generally always been a daring, attacking and entertaining football team that plays with a certain flair using width excellently.

Mourinho gets the results part absolutely right but he doesn't get his teams to entertain.
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I would say Real Madrid have entertained plenty of people this year - they play with plenty of style and score a lot of goals.

The fact that his Inter and Real sides have not tried to go "toe to toe" with Barca is testament to his ability as a manager, because neither side (nor probably any in the world) is good enough to do so. You can't beat Barca at their own game, simple as that, so trying to do so is foolish.

See what side Fergie puts out against them if both sides reach the CL final - I bet nobody on here would complain if we beat them 1 - 0 while stifling their creative flair and "parking the bus". He'll be hailed as a tactical genius.

Fergie's stifling tactics may not be as blatant as Jose's recently but the fact that when fit, Ji Sung Park plays every big game in while the likes of Nani warm the bench tells you a lot about his priorites over a season - namely that a draw (especially away from home) in a big game is a good result.

On here we criticise the likes of Arsenal as "chokers" when they try to play fair football and don't get the results, accuse them of having no steel or no bottle to grind out a result when it matters - but on the other hand want a manager who'll sacrifice points for performances?

For me, when you lose the best you try and replace him with the best. Very very few manager have the talent or ability to thrive in the pressure cooker of the top 4 in the PL, in what is a results driven business. Even worse would be trying to fill the boots of someone as succesful as Sir Alex.
 
Amir said:
Is that based on watching his teams regularly or just the odd big game?
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On a regular basis. I find the 'style' of his teams, whether they draw 0-0 or win 4-0, very mechanical and methodical and not very entertaining.

This has nothing to do with his tactics against Barca.
 
RedRover said:
I would say Real Madrid have entertained plenty of people this year - they play with plenty of style and score a lot of goals.

The fact that his Inter and Real sides have not tried to go "toe to toe" with Barca is testament to his ability as a manager, because neither side (nor probably any in the world) is good enough to do so. You can't beat Barca at their own game, simple as that, so trying to do so is foolish.

See what side Fergie puts out against them if both sides reach the CL final - I bet nobody on here would complain if we beat them 1 - 0 while stifling their creative flair and "parking the bus". He'll be hailed as a tactical genius.

Fergie's stifling tactics may not be as blatant as Jose's recently but the fact that when fit, Ji Sung Park plays every big game in while the likes of Nani warm the bench tells you a lot about his priorites over a season - namely that a draw (especially away from home) in a big game is a good result.

On here we criticise the likes of Arsenal as "chokers" when they try to play fair football and don't get the results, accuse them of having no steel or no bottle to grind out a result when it matters - but on the other hand want a manager who'll sacrifice points for performances?

For me, when you lose the best you try and replace him with the best. Very very few manager have the talent or ability to thrive in the pressure cooker of the top 4 in the PL, in what is a results driven business. Even worse would be trying to fill the boots of someone as succesful as Sir Alex.
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No we'd ideally like a balance between the two. It's always been the United way. There are exceptions like this season where at times we've been dull but more due to poor performances and lack of confidence in our resources IMO.

I think Madrid for Madrid standards are extremely dull. He has been given a ridiculous amount of money to spend (140 million on TWO players) so you'd expect some flair.

But the fairest thing to do is to judge his teams as a whole, and I don't think it makes for pretty viewing.

In fact, and many might disagree, barring the sight of watching Robben in full flight, which I think was an exception to Mourinho's stint at Chelsea because he usually curbed flair players, the football played under Ancelotti towards the latter stages of last season was the best I've seen a post-russian taker over Chelsea team play in terms of entertaining football.

Of course Mourinho's teams were far better and last season's Chelsea were an unbelievably unimpressive, but in the latter stretch of the season they played some extremely classy football, which was more fun than that of the Mourinho days.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
No we'd ideally like a balance between the two. It's always been the United way. There are exceptions like this season where at times we've been dull but more due to poor performances and lack of confidence in our resources IMO.

I think Madrid for Madrid standards are extremely dull. He has been given a ridiculous amount of money to spend (140 million on TWO players) so you'd expect some flair.
But the fairest thing to do is to judge his teams as a whole, and I don't think it makes for pretty viewing.

In fact, and many might disagree, barring the sight of watching Robben in full flight, which I think was an exception to Mourinho's stint at Chelsea because he usually curbed flair players, the football played under Ancelotti towards the latter stages of last season was the best I've seen a post-russian taker over Chelsea team play in terms of entertaining football.

Of course Mourinho's teams were far better and last season's Chelsea were an unbelievably unimpressive, but in the latter stretch of the season they played some extremely classy football, which was more fun than that of the Mourinho days.
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I presume you refer to Ronaldo and Kaka - neither of whom were signed by Mourinho. Infact, he picked up Wesley Sneijder for Inter when Kaka took his place and in Mourinho's side he became one of the best midfield players in the world - despite costing about a quarter of the price of Ronaldo.

Madrid's signings this year, including Ozil, Carvalho, Di Maria and Khedira have all proved shrewd - not only good football, but largely good business deals as well. At Inter the signings of Milito, Lucio, Motta and Et'o were masterstrokes as he took an arguably average side to the pinnacle of Europe.

Chelsea did play some great stuff last year - with a team largely built by Mourinho, picking up the likes of Carvalho, Drogba and Essien and turning an average team into PL champions and CL contenders. Of course Ancellotti deserves a great amount of credit for getting them playing so well - but Mourinho deserves credit for Chelsea's ongoing success, even back as far as the Chelsea side which reached the CL.

Its horses for courses. Ideally every side wants a side who can win every game by playing fantastic football - fact is very few sides are good enough to do that and very few managers have those esources, especially in the modern game. Indeed Fergie is finding it increasingly difficult without access to transfer funds and unless things change, United need a manager shrewd in the market who can get the very best out of what he has.
 
RedRover said:
Why some see this as a problem though I'm personally not sure. Some consider the 70's and 80's to be glory days of football - when players were all half pissed most of the time, many fans arguably nothing more than thugs dressed in designer gear and for United - success few and far between amid an era of diminance by Liverpool, who by buying the best players year on year had a monoploy as strong as United's.
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You missed the point entirely. I never implied that the pre premiership era was perfect, only that youngsters had never had the experience of witnessing football when it was a sport and not a business.

Business and the people within it do not value fair play or sportsmanship only success, therefore my point was to allude to the subsequent change in values and priorities of those involved now as opposed to those involved then, and the effect that has had on the mentality of some younger fans compared to many of the older ones.

As regards the club being succesful - suggesting a manager like Jose Mourinho is a "short term fix" does him a severe diservice. The man is a tactical genius who has had success wherever he goes and will continue to do so - be it in Italy, Spain or the PL, and by the end of his career will undoubtedly be considered one of, if not the best manager of all time.
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No-one is questioning Mourinho's talent, nor his success. But i believe his methods of achieving his goals should be questioned, especially regarding his potential appointment at our great club.

How can he be anything other than a short term fix? He lays no infrastructure at clubs, no planning for the future well being of the respective club, he simple waltzes in demands a hundred million or so, wins his trophies while creating as much trouble and tension through the media as possible, then moves on.

Mourinho may eventually be regarded as one of the most successful managers ever, but he will never be considered on par with the greats imo. Why? Simply because the true greats were great men as well as great managers who stood for something beside success. Men like Shankley, Busby, Fergie and Clough inspired with their ideals as well as their football, and they left a legacy that their cities could take pride in, not just for themselves.

You talk about a "win at all costs" mentality as if its a bad thing.
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Depends how you define 'at all costs'. I consider 'at all costs' to mean that you are prepared to sacrifice every value, sporting or otherwise simply to win. See this is my point, to be a success in business requires you to have no values, no sense of fair play or sportsmanship. To be a great in sport you must have more than a winning mentality, you have to inspire people to be like you.

Schumacher is regarded as a great champion, but he is not popular nor respected as a person for his lack of sportsmanship and fair play, and he will be forever remembered as a cnut. No-one gets inspired to grow up to be a cnut!

myth that United play with some pre ordained style or panache is just that. You only need to look at performaces this season to see it.

I'm constantly surprised by the fact that it seems some fans would rather the club be nearly men season on season. Like Arsenal it seems - playing with style but no end product.
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What complete bollocks! So mourinho's way is the only way now is it? We've been playing with style and end product for 20 years!

How can it possibly be a myth, when millions of people around the world have witnessed it for the last 60 years? You would unashamedly dismiss that whole historical philosophy simply because we have not been at our best the last couple of seasons?

You do a terrible disservice to our past and their combined efforts in establishing a global fanbase to rival any around the world. They certainly did not achieve that feat by playing negative football or conducting themselves in the petulant manner of Mourinho.

You appear to condone not only his methods but also his disrespectful attitude and behaviour. That would indicate to me that you would then have no problems with him discarding our youth policy, all of our philosophies and values, as long as he is successful.

I am afraid i just cannot agree with that view, i would happily continue to support Utd if we never won another trophy, just as i did in the barren 70's and 80's you speak of with such disdain.

Success imo, should always be considered a bonus not a necessity, and a club should never sacrifice everything they stand for in the pursuit of it. If we sacrifice everything we are for success, who are we winning it for?

Simply a name? Well what good is that name if it doesn't stand for anything or anyone?
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apotheosis said:
Mourinho may eventually be regarded as one of the most successful managers ever, but he will never be considered on par with the greats imo. Why? Simply because the true greats were great men as well as great managers who stood for something beside success. Men like Shankley, Busby, Fergie and Clough inspired with their ideals as well as their football, and they left a legacy that their cities could take pride in, not just for themselves.
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And how many of that kind are around anymore? If we had another Fergie or a Busby waiting in the wings, by all means, but we don't. It's a different world and we'll have to accept that.

Anyhow, legendary coaches exist not only in England. Helenio Herrara, for one. And his legacy isn't based on the most beautiful football. If Mourinho continues to pick up trophies like he has so far, he'll easily be among the greatest. His last eight years as are impressive as I've seen from any football coach.
 
I can't stand Jose and I'd hate to see him at United but he does win you trophies and is probably the only person good enough to take over.

There'll be some Chelsea fans who convert to United though. Many of them seem to have an unhealthy love for him!

I'm just praying he doesn't bring the likes of Di Maria and Pepe with him when he comes though :nervous:
 
No he watched from the hotel, which I said was very poor form but apparently there was security issues and Barca wouldn't supply a directors box or something.
 
R_Nick said:
No he watched from the hotel, which I said was very poor form but apparently there was security issues and Barca wouldn't supply a directors box or something.
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Hmmmmm....
I'm not doubting the snidey Barca stuff but I'm sure if he really wanted to be there, he would be there.
This seems particularly odd, surely FIFA and the Catalan police would've been able to provide adequate security.
River and Boca players get bottled when they get subbed but the managers still go to each game.
 
Scoreboard Red said:
Hmmmmm....
I'm not doubting the snidey Barca stuff but I'm sure if he really wanted to be there, he would be there.
This seems particularly odd, surely FIFA and the Catalan police would've been able to provide adequate security.
River and Boca players get bottled when they get subbed but the managers still go to each game.
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He was also banned from the touchline, making his presence somewhat pointless, as I doubt Barcelona would lend him a laundry basket.

What I heard was that he was able to speak to the players over a speaker phone in the dressing room, something he would have been unable to do at the stadium itself (for obvious reasons.)
 
phelans shorts said:
He was also banned from the touchline, making his presence somewhat pointless, as I doubt Barcelona would lend him a laundry basket.

What I heard was that he was able to speak to the players over a speaker phone in the dressing room, something he would have been unable to do at the stadium itself (for obvious reasons.)
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I see what you're saying Shorty, but his presence at the stadium is that of support in my opinion.
Can you imagine Fergie, Wenger, Guardiola or whoever else not showing up to watch them for support at the very least?
Also, there aren't restrictions on communicating with the training staff as per Fergie to Meulensteen recently via regulated lines. He could have been there.
It may be untrue, but to me and I would guess many including potentially the staff, board and Real players it seemed he doesn't care as much as he should.
 
Scoreboard Red said:
I see what you're saying Shorty, but his presence at the stadium is that of support in my opinion.
Can you imagine Fergie, Wenger, Guardiola or whoever else not showing up to watch them for support at the very least?
Also, there aren't restrictions on communicating with the training staff as per Fergie to Meulensteen recently via regulated lines. He could have been there.
It may be untrue, but to me and I would guess many including potentially the staff, board and Real players it seemed he doesn't care as much as he should.
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There are restrictions on communications in European competition.

Basically he may have been able to get away with communication if not there and the fact he wants to make a point to UEFA, even refusing the press conference yesterday didn't he?
 
phelans shorts said:
There are restrictions on communications in European competition.

Basically he may have been able to get away with communication if not there and the fact he wants to make a point to UEFA, even refusing the press conference yesterday didn't he?
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Either way, he should have been there in my opinion.
Fergie was hard done by, in my opinion far more than Mourinho was yet Fergie was there for each and every of the five games he was banned for.
Mourinho is a mard-arse, plain and simple.
 
Scoreboard Red said:
Either way, he should have been there in my opinion.
Fergie was hard done by, in my opinion far more than Mourinho was yet Fergie was there for each and every of the five games he was banned for.
Mourinho is a mard-arse, plain and simple.
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I agree he should have been there, Fergie was allowed to communicate for those games though, so him being there had an actual effect in that he was in the dressing room, lets not rule out Jose sneaking in though and watching it in the dressing room, he is a very clever man.
 
Agree with a few of the thoughts on here. It's very true that winning at all costs does seem to be the main prerogative these days, with the reason being "we can't miss out on the financial benefits..."

Personally, I'm still a fan of the building a team idea, this is something that Fergie has mastered. I read somewhere a quote of his after the 1991-92 season where Leeds pipped us - "we weren't just after one title, we were after a fistful of them."

Someone else reasonable at this is Wenger. He's been good at building squads, but they break-up again (or players leave) just before they can achieve success.

The ability to combine talent with experience, nurture youngsters and then get them to deliver is something that achieves long-lasting success. If he can do it in a good style, inspire his players and motivate them to play for the club, then I'm 100% behind any new manager.

My preference for the next manager is Owen Coyle. I know some will point to a lack of experience, but he's clearly a quality manager. He motivates players well, plays a good brand of football, combines youth and experience well at Bolton, and has been shown to be shrewd in the transfer market. I know Bolton have had bad games (5-0 Stoke for example), but every manager has them from time to time.
I think if he comes in, and we give him a chance to build a team, I think we'll be well served.
For this reason, I really like the idea of Owen Coyle
 
oh ok, owen coyle, LMAO. :wenger:

it just will not happen, no one bar jose has the mentatlity to cope with such a massive job. other candidates like hiddink, are too old and cappello's shit. end of.
 
Kiwi Red said:
Agree with a few of the thoughts on here. It's very true that winning at all costs does seem to be the main prerogative these days, with the reason being "we can't miss out on the financial benefits..."

Personally, I'm still a fan of the building a team idea, this is something that Fergie has mastered. I read somewhere a quote of his after the 1991-92 season where Leeds pipped us - "we weren't just after one title, we were after a fistful of them."

Someone else reasonable at this is Wenger. He's been good at building squads, but they break-up again (or players leave) just before they can achieve success.

The ability to combine talent with experience, nurture youngsters and then get them to deliver is something that achieves long-lasting success. If he can do it in a good style, inspire his players and motivate them to play for the club, then I'm 100% behind any new manager.

My preference for the next manager is Owen Coyle. I know some will point to a lack of experience, but he's clearly a quality manager. He motivates players well, plays a good brand of football, combines youth and experience well at Bolton, and has been shown to be shrewd in the transfer market. I know Bolton have had bad games (5-0 Stoke for example), but every manager has them from time to time.
I think if he comes in, and we give him a chance to build a team, I think we'll be well served.
For this reason, I really like the idea of Owen Coyle
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Coyle's young(ish) and is in only his second term as a Premiership manager.
Let's see how he travels in a few years; the problem is, there have been other managers doing decent jobs in similar circumstances touted as being the next manager for big teams and ultimately failing.
Allardyce did well with Bolton for years then took on the job at Newcastle, a bigger club where he failed.
Hughes went to City and couldn't take them to where they wished to be.
Hodgson did well with Fulham and despite having significant experience internationally and managing even managing Inter Milan, was a failure at Liverpool.

In my opinion, we need to aim higher than over-achievers at mid-range, bottom-range clubs and go for achievers at high-level clubs.

PS - this is why I'm also not in favour of David Moyes, I keep hearing he's done brilliant with the resources he has but still hasn't accomplished anything other than a brief foray into the Champions League in 2005 going out the first round.
 
SteveJ said:
Sir Alex may well be a managerial genius but he's not the greatest ambassador for United; however, the victims of his sometimes-brusque nature are often those who thoroughly merit this (the press, for example). But still, I always feel that he has his club's best interests at heart. Mourinho is a different case entirely: he might be enamoured of the United job simply because of the glamour attached to the position, the club's history etc etc but this doesn't benefit United - in the final analysis, it's all about him...

Real Madrid's former president Calderon hinted recently that the club had willingly handed power over to José in the pursuit of trophies and titles at all costs, at any cost. Other respected names, even the great Madrid legend Di Stefano, have bemoaned Mourinho's lack of regard for the sport and for Real's historic reputation of attacking football; do we want such a man at United?

It's a very modern phenomenon, aligned to a culture that's lost its way - the mantras are that 'winning is everything'; 'second is nowhere'; 'no-one remembers a loser' - and these are soulless soundbites that perfectly sum-up The Mourinho Way; it isn't The United Way though, no matter how many cups and baubles we win...

By appointing Mourinho, the powers-that-be at United will signal that success is all that counts, regardless of how it's attained. As at Real Madrid, our club's caretakers will have sold-out our history, our traditions, and Sir Alex's legacy. Despite some supporters' opinion that 'the club exists to win trophies', I believe that United's wellbeing - and the romance of Manchester United - are of greater importance. Though I guess that makes me an old-fashioned fool who's not a 'winner'...
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Nice post. I agree completely.
 
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Kiwi Red said:
My preference for the next manager is Owen Coyle. I know some will point to a lack of experience, but he's clearly a quality manager. He motivates players well, plays a good brand of football, combines youth and experience well at Bolton, and has been shown to be shrewd in the transfer market. I know Bolton have had bad games (5-0 Stoke for example), but every manager has them from time to time.
I think if he comes in, and we give him a chance to build a team, I think we'll be well served.
For this reason, I really like the idea of Owen Coyle
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Tend to agree. But this summer would be a bit too soon. Based on interviews I would say his approach to the players seem to be a bit of the same as Ferguson. That is important. One should be careful, and not hire a manager with completely different man-management approach.

On the other hand, I would expect him to play a more possession-based football at Man Utd. But I think he would.
 
apotheosis said:
RedRover said:
You missed the point entirely. I never implied that the pre premiership era was perfect, only that youngsters had never had the experience of witnessing football when it was a sport and not a business.

Business and the people within it do not value fair play or sportsmanship only success, therefore my point was to allude to the subsequent change in values and priorities of those involved now as opposed to those involved then, and the effect that has had on the mentality of some younger fans compared to many of the older ones.



No-one is questioning Mourinho's talent, nor his success. But i believe his methods of achieving his goals should be questioned, especially regarding his potential appointment at our great club.

How can he be anything other than a short term fix? He lays no infrastructure at clubs, no planning for the future well being of the respective club, he simple waltzes in demands a hundred million or so, wins his trophies while creating as much trouble and tension through the media as possible, then moves on.

Mourinho may eventually be regarded as one of the most successful managers ever, but he will never be considered on par with the greats imo. Why? Simply because the true greats were great men as well as great managers who stood for something beside success. Men like Shankley, Busby, Fergie and Clough inspired with their ideals as well as their football, and they left a legacy that their cities could take pride in, not just for themselves.



Depends how you define 'at all costs'. I consider 'at all costs' to mean that you are prepared to sacrifice every value, sporting or otherwise simply to win. See this is my point, to be a success in business requires you to have no values, no sense of fair play or sportsmanship. To be a great in sport you must have more than a winning mentality, you have to inspire people to be like you.

Schumacher is regarded as a great champion, but he is not popular nor respected as a person for his lack of sportsmanship and fair play, and he will be forever remembered as a cnut. No-one gets inspired to grow up to be a cnut!



What complete bollocks! So mourinho's way is the only way now is it? We've been playing with style and end product for 20 years!

How can it possibly be a myth, when millions of people around the world have witnessed it for the last 60 years? You would unashamedly dismiss that whole historical philosophy simply because we have not been at our best the last couple of seasons?

You do a terrible disservice to our past and their combined efforts in establishing a global fanbase to rival any around the world. They certainly did not achieve that feat by playing negative football or conducting themselves in the petulant manner of Mourinho.

You appear to condone not only his methods but also his disrespectful attitude and behaviour. That would indicate to me that you would then have no problems with him discarding our youth policy, all of our philosophies and values, as long as he is successful.

I am afraid i just cannot agree with that view, i would happily continue to support Utd if we never won another trophy, just as i did in the barren 70's and 80's you speak of with such disdain.

Success imo, should always be considered a bonus not a necessity, and a club should never sacrifice everything they stand for in the pursuit of it. If we sacrifice everything we are for success, who are we winning it for?

Simply a name? Well what good is that name if it doesn't stand for anything or anyone?
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Your first point is a valid one - the element of sportsmanship particularly seems to have gone out of the window, although that's arguably been the case in other parts of the world for years - the diving antics in Italy for example predate anything in the UK. Its also arguable that the game itself is much less "phsyical" that it was years ago - when flair players would get brutal treatment.

Its also arguable that football these days, especially in the PL is of a much higher standard that previously - the influx of foreign players, whatever their faults and effect on the national side - surely providing higher standards of football generally.

I guess its horses for courses and all a matter of opinion, but I personally feel that the PL is one of the most entertaining leagues in the world and is much better than it was in the early to mid nineties.

As regards Jose Mourinho I don't agree that his teams play with "no style" simply because he's been negative in a few games against the best side in the world. Again, I'd suggest if Fergie wins the CL by frustrating Barca and getting one on the break no United fans will be moaning that its "not the United way".

If you watched Real Madrid regularly they play with style and score a lot of goals - they may not be Barcelona, but who else are? His team at Porto played some good stuff, as did Chelsea at times.

I don't hold with this idea that united have always played glorious free flowing football. We may have done at times, when we had a team much better than others in the PL but in my experience its not always been the case. For me the United way is great football at times, but grit and determination when required, grinding our results with players who win games with class but also with steel and effort when required - in short, being real winners. Again - a matter opinion.

As regards disrespectful behavior you need to take of your red tinted glasses - Fergie is hated by a lot of non United fans because of the way he goes on - moaning about referees in general, shouting and bawling on the touchline, always something controversial to say about someone in the game.
The fact is, he engages in these antics to take pressure away from the players - a tactic utilised often by Jose Mourinho.

Winning is vital to the club, from a financial aspect at least. The great strides made in "establishing a global fanbase" are surely dependant on success? How many fans worldwide would buy shirts and pay for TV games to watch a side finishing third each year?

You may not care about success and thats your perogative. Easy to say when your team is doing well and is involved in the big games at the end of each season. Much harder I suspect if you were watching City of Liverpool walking away with the prizes year after year.

For me, replacing Alex ferguson will be impossible and we need someone with the personality and ability to continue his traditions in bringing success to the club. Finding such a manager isn't easy - as a lot of clubs have tried time and again.

I see a lot of people dismissing Mourinho on here but very few who can suggest anyone else with a suitable pedigree.
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Pep Guardiola please. Understands the importance of youth, can handle the pressure, fantastic football and hopefully will bring Messi with him.
 
Psmith said:
Pep Guardiola please. Understands the importance of youth, can handle the pressure, fantastic football and hopefully will bring Messi with him.
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Oh, now I see the reason for your comment on that other thread, you're one of the Barca & St Messi can do no wrong brigade. :rolleyes:

Guardiola has proven time and again he's dreadful in the transfer market, getting rid of Eto'o and bringing in Zlatan sure worked out well for them.
 
I actually think I can't think of anyone that's the right fit for the job.

Mourinho's football is boring for me. I think he'd be capable of encouraging youth because we've already got the system in place. But his brand of football doesn't suit this club.

Guardiola is not the right fit either IMO. He has been fairly lucky to take over a super team that was somehow being poorly managed. At United there will be no auto pilot managing, there will be no Messi, there will be no uncompetitive league and there will be a whole new kind of football. Basically the 'elements' would be against him and I have not yet really seen him tested by the elements.

People like Moyes are even worse IMO. I reckon they'd end up the Hodgson way - simply not suitable for a club of that stature.

Maybe people like the Porto manager or Blanc can prove themselves further to be a better fit but I can't see anyone in the game right now that I say 'yes, that would be great post Fergie'.
 
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