It depends on what you want really. If you want exciting football he's definitely not one of the prime candidates. If you want effective football he is THE prime candidate. Firstly, we don't know whether he would want to come. And secondly it also depends on what we want.
Next Man Utd Manager Expected To Be Jose Mourinho Or David Moyes
- Thread starter Niall
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It depends on what you want really. If you want exciting football he's definitely not one of the prime candidates. If you want effective football he is THE prime candidate. Firstly, we don't know whether he would want to come. And secondly it also depends on what we want.
True that... all speculative.
That argument again...
Porto lost a whole load of their top players in the same summer, Chelsea pushed us hard for the league and CL, Inter chose to employ Benitez.
Also, I'd say it's more testament to how good he is that clubs struggle to match what he managed to accomplish after he leaves.
If you honestly think we're one of the most loved clubs in the world to non-United fans, I really don't know what to say... ever heard of the term ABU?
It's more like 4-6-0 and it's hardly a new formation, Sir Alex tried it when we were 3-1 up against Bayern last season too.
Yes, that arguement again because its a very valid point. Porto lost a load of their players that summer. If they had a loyal manager would they have lost as many players that year? If Mourinho had stayed surely with his enending greatness he could have kept vital ones and replaced the others.
When at chelsea he came into an established team with a never ending pot of money at the begining. He stayed there for three years and did very well domestically. He won it all for a few seasons. Played shit boring football in my opinion, but still won a lot. Then he left the team behind with no thought for the future. How much attention did he pay to the YTS at Chelsea. This is one of SAF's greatest strengths. He didn't simply have to go out and buy titles. We were able to develop our own legends from a very young age. No-one can say Mourinho has any great history of worrying about the youth systems of any club he's been at. Oh yeah, he's not been there long enough. Now Chelsea will reap the rewards of this short term thinking. In January they went out and spend 70mil on 2 players. This is only the beginning. The backbone of their team is coming to an end. It hasn't totally happened yet, but without major major investment in the squad they will fall away very soon. Probably wont happen as they have an owner with the resources to prevent it, but we don't.
Inter chose to employ Benitez is a fairly simple answer, but possibly has some truth in it. He's not gone long enough to really analyis the fall from grace of last years champions, but i'm seeing a bit of a pattern here.
At Real, I feel he's allready lowered the stature of the club. One of the greatest clubs in world football with a magnificent heritage of playing free flowing attacking football and he played THAT system against Barca. That was truely shamefull. Then he disgraced that club even more with his own typical antics on the sideline and in the press conference.He won't stay there long, and barring one copa-del-rey this season has been a disaster for Real. Beat 6-0 by there nearest rivals and going out of Europe with barely a whimper. Oh, he's the Special one all-right.
And on your point about the 5-5-0 or 4-6-0 whatever that crap was, you really made my piont for me. We were 3-1 up in the second leg. They sarted that system at 0-0 in the home leg. No attempt to play football at all. Horrible comparison really.
Effective boring dull football. Usually succesful, but goes against everything this great club stands for.
Not sure what you're point is here. He just finished leading a relatively small club to the UEFA Cup and Champions League. If anything, its a testament to what a good manager he is. He built that side and managed them to greatness. The fact that he left afterwards should have been expected of any manager seeking to move up in the world.
When he arrived at Chelsea he inherited an underachieving group of rent boys, added a few players, and went on to win a couple of league titles. It was a bit boring by our standards, but his success can't be understated - 2 leagues, where Chelsea had only one league to their name in the previous 100 years of their existence. Again, the fact that they experienced a dip after he left is a testament to his impact.
The rise and fall of Inter from league to treble champs and then back again into obscurity can be attributed to Mourinho's tenure. They were good when he arrived, he (once again) elevated them yet another level, and they quite predictably went backwards following his departure.
He's already managed one trophy in his first year. Winning trebles is not going to be in the cards at a time when Barca are widely being considered as one of the best sides ever. The broader point here is that despite the fair criticisms that his sides play boring football, Mourinho's success shouldn't be diminished. He's taken each of his last four sides and moved them up at least one level in terms of trophies compared to where they were before he joined.
The current Real Madrid side only play boring football vs Barcelona.
I agree, don't know what this irwin lad has been watching or if he's watched 1 game and summarized Mou's whole season.
No, they played some great football, Robben was awesome, Joe Cole also did the damage and when they needed a goal, it was either big man Terry to pop up with a header or Lampard with a deflection... Then there was Drogba's insanely powerful skills...
How can you say that when it was Abrahimovic's fault for wanting Sheva this, wanting attractive football that... That last season when he left was definitely not his team imo. Claiming he left no future is such a horrid statement when Grant came in and got them to the CL finals that season... I don't know what you're watching mate... It's too anti Mou... Did he shag your wife or something ?
If Mou wasn't given the task to secure Chelsea's first CL in their whole history, do you think he'd want to break the bank to sign the players ? It was a football project, using Abramovic's cash, an investment which I thought Mou did well to actually win the double and league 2 years straight... His record against us was good as well... Got to give some credit to him, its not easy fighting the pressure and even good coaches like Scolari and right now maybe Anchelottie are feeling it...
No, ne never lowered them, what is with the negativity, he had a few bad matches against an amazing side like Barca (minus the dives and play acting ) ? So ? It was one bloody match in which he got the team selection maybe wrong or the team plan didn't work like he wanted... I can't see why people just pour all the negativity after just 1 big match... Its not fair really to judge him after one match.
They beat Valencia 6-3 prior to Barca's match, was that dull football ? He's actually made Madrid play really well attacking wise and has done a good defensive job too, at least for one thing, I think Marcelo under Mou has undergone a huge improvement defensively...
How many RM matches have you actually watched ? It really doesn't make sense to me...
Not that I totally want Mou, it'll be Manchester's choice but I've watched enough of Mou and know that he is a very smart manager who is good enough to adapt to each strength's of a team and I'm very sure if he were appointed, he wouldn't change the philosophy of the club.
Indeed
I was about to make this same point.
Mourinho's tenure at Real so far actually makes a good case for him being able to get good attacking football out of his team. They're more attacking that what we normally are these days.
Now, his Chelsea team were actually good attackers in his first season when he had both Robben and Duff fit. The football they played during periods of that season was brilliant, right up there with anything we and Arsenal have provided over the years. However, the longer he was there the more defensive and boring they became, so I'll be interested to see if he does a similar thing to Real. I don't think he will, except once again when they play Barca.
Frank Arnesen was brought from Spurs to deal with Youth development, it's not Mourinho's fault he did a shit job. Mourinho was brought in to win titles and CL's, the former he achieved the latter he did not. He wasn't brought in to develop youth players, Abramovich wanted instant success and that's what Mourinho brought.
Ancelotti didn't sign any major players in the summer, he talked about giving youth a chance and he's done that a fair amount this season (especially when they had a shitload of injuries) and he's likely to lose his job at the end of the season. Go figure.
It's what Pogue did with his Inter side aswell.
This nonsense about planning for the future misses the point entirely, does the fact united fell away spectacularly after Sir Matt retired mean he didn't plan for the future? Or was it because the managers that followed weren't as good as him? Who was actually responsible for youth development at Chelsea, the manager as at united? No, it was Arnesen or whatever his name is. It took Sir Alex 7-8 years to set up a successful youth system and reap the rewards, that at a club with a proud history of developing young players and being given the power to do so. To dismiss Mourinho on this point is dumb, he has never been given the time to develop youth players having moved between clubs demanding instant success, yet still has introduced Mikel, Santon, Canales and others.
Well said.
You know someone is grasping at straws when they start throwing round names like Mikel and Canales as examples of Mourinho's talent for youth development.
He said he introduced young talents to first team football. I don't believe he referred to academies at all.
The point is, he's never stayed long enough at a club to develop and long term strategies. You can say it's not his fault, but the simple fact is, he's never stuck around at a club and rebuilt a team.
I'm sure if he come here in the short term we'd win trophies, however, I don't know if five years into his reign, he'd be able to rebuild the side and I don't know how good he'd be at bringing youth through. The decline in clubs after he's left may be because his succesful coaching style isn't built for sustained pushes. He seems to get the best out of his players he has, but long term who can say?
Jose has done nothing for Canales' promising career.
I feel bad for the lad.
I feel bad for the lad.
Not given time to develop young talent?
I just don't think it's his way at all. Besides, it's surely partly his fault he hasn't been at those clubs and these things are for managers to prove rather than others to assume. Not every manager is great with young players so it would be wrong to assume Mourinho would be good at bringing them through especially when there is no evidence to suggest so.
I just don't think it's his way at all. Besides, it's surely partly his fault he hasn't been at those clubs and these things are for managers to prove rather than others to assume. Not every manager is great with young players so it would be wrong to assume Mourinho would be good at bringing them through especially when there is no evidence to suggest so.
And which club will give a manager this amount of time nowadays?
One man's "boring"is another man's "effective". 95pts in season is nothing to scoff at. That's bloody remarkable. He has won a trophy every year since 2002. Not even SAF has managed to do that (just making a point...ofcourse SAF is a better manager). He's not perfect. His personality is undesirable and he is a cnut but he could be our cnut (just like Keano). I'm not saying I want him as our manager but I won't be outside OT with placards if he's hired. I'd rather SAF stay 3 more years and win us 3 more UCL titles but we can't always get what we want......
.... but if we try sometimes..... we might just get what we need... (sorry...couldn't resist)
Oh and regards to youth, I think he would want to settle at OT and build a team. He would probably stay 5 years which is a long time in this present climate. He wants to win a La Liga title which he may very well win next year and then he'd have accomplished everything he wanted bar managing Portugal to World Cup glory. He may also fancy winning a Champions League in the 3 major Leagues too. Well...Italy will be fourth come 2012-2013 season.
Problem is, if you are looking for coaches who have done it long term, how many options have you got? And how many of them did it in a club that has the stature of Manchester United?
We all know that when the day comes and Fergie retires, we'll have to settle for someone who doesn't have all the qualities and proven abilities we'd like. We won't get the complete package, so I guess it's a case of what people see as higher priorities.
Having said that, I'm certain that when the board looks at the possibilities, having someone who will continue to steer the club to success short and mid term, will be an absolute must.
At what stage do Chelsea and Mourinho finally become seperate entities? It's been nearly four years since his departure. how about now?
When he left, those players were at their peak of their powers. The managers that have come since just went along with what they had, even when those players started showing signs of their age. Maybe it's those managers fault? Or the Youth system which simply hasn't brought through good enough players? Or the owner, who wouldn't stamp up money for players or at least young talent, and wanting the finished products and immediate success?
So many possibilities, but as always, it all comes back to Mourinho, years after he's gone. Let's give him credit for Porto's revival as well...
I hope part of this thread was a joke
David Who? What's he done to get the reins of a huge club, not only in name and rep but in silverware? The most famous club in the world and following in the footsteps of Sir Alex Ferguson's record................David Moyes?
He's the kind of manager to get a club like West Ham which has a tradition of skilful football and young talent but little achievement for years.
As for Moronho, I'd like us to get the manager we deserve, not a flake.
Yes, he's achieved great things with Chelsea and Porto in a lesser sense but there are other successful managers who are most suited to United. I'd love Roy Keane but he hasn't got the track record of success in silverware. However, I think that could be overcome by the fact that his name and achievements earn or should earn instant respect from the players.
David Who? What's he done to get the reins of a huge club, not only in name and rep but in silverware? The most famous club in the world and following in the footsteps of Sir Alex Ferguson's record................David Moyes?He's the kind of manager to get a club like West Ham which has a tradition of skilful football and young talent but little achievement for years.
As for Moronho, I'd like us to get the manager we deserve, not a flake.
Yes, he's achieved great things with Chelsea and Porto in a lesser sense but there are other successful managers who are most suited to United. I'd love Roy Keane but he hasn't got the track record of success in silverware. However, I think that could be overcome by the fact that his name and achievements earn or should earn instant respect from the players.
No, not at all a valid point, let's see, Mourinho over-achieved so much at Porto by winning the CL (when was the last time any side out of the big leagues won it except Porto?) that he was always going to move onto a bigger league and a better paid job. It's ridiculous to expect he'd have stayed at Porto. Should Sir Alex have stayed at Aberdeen?
At Chelsea he came to a team who challegned for a CL spot, he immediately took them to the title, getting a record number of points in the process. The style of play is all very subjective, but his team did score lots of goals, outscoring the so called beautiful Goons.
Mourinho left Chelsea FOUR years ago, it's very much testament to his work that they're still essentially the side he built and challenging us every season; surely it's more the fault of people after him who failed to move the squad along. How could you know what Jose would have done if he had stayed for those 4 years. One thing is clear, he signs a lot of young players, which is a trait Sir Alex seems to share.
The pattern seems to be that other managers are not as good as Mourinho as they fail to repeat his level of success with the same squad (or even adding to the squad in the case of Scolari).
United played a similar system enroute to the CL in 08, I don't see anyone complaining. If they didn't play that system, they wouldn't even have a Copa del Rey to show for the season.
Whatever system wins football matches is a system that works. The fact the referee screwed up his plan wasn't really his fault.
Successful effective boring dull football vs "what Arsenal do", I know which one I'd choose.
Are you for real
We'd have to fight off the might of Melbourne Victory to have any shout there.
Profoundly do not want either.
Are you for real
We'd have to fight off the might of Melbourne Victory to have any shout there.
Achievements as in powering United to its most successful ever period in its history. I don't know about you, but I still watch United games on the dvd from when Roy came into his own through to the last title he won as captain and I get goosebumps seeing him.
Roy wasn't only an enforcer with a sheer, overpowering will to win - his technical skills outranked those of many players in his era and many of those playing now. He wasn't simply a defensive midfielder - he was an amazing attacking player as well.
Had he played for England or an established European national team, he would be mentioned as an elite player more often than he is.His name was mentioned as a future United manager some time ago and I believe he would provide that impetus from being captain of the greatest United team ever (yes the Treble Winners in 99 were) as well as learning from the Master himself, Sir Alex Ferguson.
I was all for him in the last couple of months/years... but somehow his latest antics make me wonder whether he would be the right choice for us.
Bryan Robson should be proof enough that being a great captain and learning from Sir Alex does not make you a good manager.
We want Jamie !!
f365
The lack of respect he seems to have from people in the game is incredible.
I thought there was a good article from the Times about Mourinho. Anyone read that? I'd put it here but you've gotta pay for internet access of it.
Don't you think it sort of says something about the man Mourinho is?
I'm sure they respect him as a manager, but just not as a man. Mourinho is a great manager but also a real cnut with no respect for the game or it's officials. they are merely a means by which he can manipulate a siege mentality within the club to serve his own agenda.
He has previous for this type of behaviour. He accused Liverpool and the ref of conspiring against him when Liverpool knocked Chelsea out, Rikjaard and Anders Frisk when Barca knocked him out, and now Barca, UEFA, and Unicef are all to blame for his latest failure. Abramovich was to blame when he refused to stump up even more money, and was impudent enough to demand Mourinho made do with what he had which was 2 teams in effect.
Cloughie was a bighead, but he also had huge respect for the game. Mourinho is only interested in winning and cementing his own reputation. All of his teams have shared one thing in common imo, self belief. He instills that in them, but unfortunately it is belief borne from arrogance and that attitude is very evident in their respective antics under his management. When your manager conducts himself in such a disrespectful fashion, that attitude quickly manifests in that clubs players and some of the fans.
Hitzfeld was correct in his condemnation of Mourinho imo. Never before have i witnessed a club the size of Madrid, play so negatively at home in a game of that magnitude. Considering the size of his squad and the quality of the players at his disposal, is that approach really the best we can expect from someone of his repuation?
Like Barca or not, they have world class players and a coach who uses those players to play fantastic football and still win. Mourinho has world class players too, maybe even more than Barca, yet despite having a £373m squad the best he can manage is to set his team up like Craig Levein. Levein was widely castigated for such a negative attitude, yet for Mourinho such a tactic would be somehow considered a master stroke.
Many have pointed to Madrid getting players sent off against Barca, but essentially when your game plan is to physically overwhelm and unsettle your opponents and to berate referees, it surely should not be that surprising when players are booked or sent off.
His latest outburst is typical Mourinho, another ruse played out in the media to deflect attention from his own failings, by putting an element of doubt about the integrity of officials and opponents alike, before implying some sort of collusion.
Quite pathetic really, if there were such a conspiracy favouring Barca, then why would Bojan's goal last season against Inter be disallowed? Surely that was the perfect opportunity for an official with an agenda to put Mourinho and Inter out, yet Inter went through and Barca were denied by an extremely contentious decision.
For the record i don't want him at OT, not at all. I'd rather see Giggs or Solksjaer given a chance, no we may not win as much, if anything, but at least we would still keep our footballing philosophies and our dignity.
Anyone remember Porto vs Celtic UEFA cup final 2003? Mourinho had previously complained about Celtic's hard approach prior to the game and he made refs take a hard stance on Celtic during that game, not helped by Porto's constant feigning injuries and diving. He all but began the tactic of play-acting to gain a big advantage in the game.
He got beat by his own game against Barca. It was very sweet to see. I hold no respect for Mourinho as a person, at all. I sure hope he doesn't come to manage us.
He got beat by his own game against Barca. It was very sweet to see. I hold no respect for Mourinho as a person, at all. I sure hope he doesn't come to manage us.
Yup, no Portuguese or Spanish teams had ever done that before.
No way, no way in a million years unless they come back with experience. Why sacrifice our success?
Who's to say we will have any success after Fergie anyway? How long did Liverpool wait for success after Dalglish? When they eventually won something of note under Benitez, his change everything that had a link to their illustrious past attitude, nearly cost them their survival! How ironic and telling, that it has taken someone from that illustrious past, who understands the club and it's fans, to give them back their sense of identity and renew their spirit.
SAF is the reason for all our success, not just by managing the first team but by managing all aspects of the club towards a specific goal. No manager can simply come in and replicate that, they can either attempt to work within the current system or seek to change it. Mourinho will not continue Fergie's work, he will only ever do things his way, and once things start to go against him he will disappear to pastures new, where his personal legacy can be continued uninterrupted.
I believe we need someone who at least would share many of the values and philosophies that Fergie does. Who that man may be? I honestly don't know, but i stand by my statement regarding Solksjaer or Giggs, or almost anyone rather than a quick fix, all or nothing, win at all costs mercenary like Mourinho.
Guardiola understands Barca and he had no real experience, yet he hasn't done too badly. I am a fan of the 'if it aint broke don't fix it' philosophy, and we already have a proven successful philosophy in place, what we need when SAF retires imo, is someone who understands how best to continue to implement it.