The Beast and 10 Beauties.
Next Draft - Ideas and Discussions
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
- Start date
The problem with this is that if you keep the instruction not to consider the «match» as a normal draft style fantasy encounter, you could end up giving those who simply go for a remake an advantage. Arguing for something experimental will be hard if your opponent sports a proven classic setup.
Way I see it, you should just run normal matches. We've done the remake thing - and it was interesting as a way to highlight classic teams. But the way I remember it - it didn't work all that brilliantly in terms of the actual matches.
isnt that the case in normal games as well? Proven setups around your best players gets you better results then experimental fun ones.
The whole point of the draft is to go for tactical fits and people seems to like it so we will stay with that, we will just have to find a solution for Edgar's problem but we will find one im sure. This is not a remake, it can be if you want(like in every draft) but it isnt.
The concern is mainly that these non-matches may not work all that well.
They were necessary for the remake draft, since the managers had no freedom to tweak their given setups.
I don't see a pressing need for them here. The theme is clear. You get a star man and build around him. If you don't do that very well, you'll presumably receive a lot of criticism (and probably lose the match, if that's important) - which pretty much takes care of things, no?
You do as you please, of course - but I'd think carefully about the match format. There was something a bit odd and stale about the matches in the remake draft. They didn't quite work as matches.
No, thats the main thing. You seen great players used completely wrong and they go through because of the individual quality or some similar reason.
And tbh every game is odd and stale to me, dont enjoy that part at all....
In theory it shouldnt be much more different then a regular match, you both still discuss both teams but just not against each other. But i realize thats just in theory so i agree with you that it could be problematic in games.
I like the concept. Where it becomes challenging is, for example, in assessing the fit of a back four which might have little relevance to a great striker or attacking midfielder.
I would also like to see some new ideas and not just recreating 1970 team around Pele or 1984 French side to fit Platini
Think it will be more straightforward approach like it is in normal games. The tricky part is as always IMO when playing against someone assessing who has build a better fit or who is more likely to win the game, which of course is the problem with remake type of drafts.
yap, thats the biggest problem. There are endless possibilities so its hard to find a perfect way to judge a team. Maybe prioritize the central figure part of the team and then look the other things but its far from perfect as edgar pointed out.
Yes, but the theme here is crystal clear. If people completely ignore it, well, what can you do?
The discussions, at least, will be influenced by said theme - which is all you can hope for. Voters you can't control beyond discouraging them from voting without looking properly at what's presented.
The thing is that discussing two teams, comparing them - but not directly - within the framework of what looks much like a regular match thread...well, it didn't really work for me. Something was off there.
But, by all means, it's your show - give it a go.
If we dont find an adequate solutions for the problem above we might turn that into a normal match mode but lets assume someone ignores the theme but has the upper hand in his game, do you vote for him?
How about instead of a snake draft, we get to bid on the initial player, the more you bid, the later you go in the draft and the order goes from 1->16 every round?
@Edgar Allan Pillow @Gio and others
As its a theme of the draft to build around one player can we prioritize that part of the team(and to be fair in most cases that will be the majority of the team after all) in judging teams, if both teams are very close(being good or bad) we then move to other tactical fits(pairings, players fitting into team philosophy etc.) and even if there are close you then look at the overall quality of the team.
What you think?
edit: edgar i realize this is pretty much the same staff you already pulled out of the rules but its impossible to find a better solution.
And lets face it, if someone manages to built a good team around a certain individual what are the chances he makes a major feck up with something simple as CB pairing or something like that.
Watch that as a guidance on how to rate the teams and not as a rule if you dont like rules
As its a theme of the draft to build around one player can we prioritize that part of the team(and to be fair in most cases that will be the majority of the team after all) in judging teams, if both teams are very close(being good or bad) we then move to other tactical fits(pairings, players fitting into team philosophy etc.) and even if there are close you then look at the overall quality of the team.
What you think?
edit: edgar i realize this is pretty much the same staff you already pulled out of the rules but its impossible to find a better solution.
And lets face it, if someone manages to built a good team around a certain individual what are the chances he makes a major feck up with something simple as CB pairing or something like that.
Watch that as a guidance on how to rate the teams and not as a rule if you dont like rules
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nice idea tbh but the problem is, with quality not really being an issue and the pool being very big its not really important where you are in the picking chain so everyone can go max bid.
I'm not sure about that, no matter how many players will be blocked, there will be some obvious standout choices amongst the rest.
Also it gives people the chance to build around a player (or a system) they fancy.
It's very ambiguous and would vary between person to person.
Team 1:
Q1) Does the set up bring the best out of the player? Maybe. Would have preferred and more attacking fullback to complement him.
Q2) Is it a strong team with no other weaknesses? Yes
Team 2:
Q1) Does the set up bring the best out of the player? Yes
Q2) Is it a strong team with no other weaknesses? Maybe. Not really sure on the CB pairing and will suffer for pace against the striker (facing them).
Team 2 should get the vote going by theme of draft, whereas in actual match Team 1 will have better chance of winning it.
There is no right or wrong answer to this.
But then whatever you mention as theme, voters will still vote on what they believe in.
I presume the rest of pool will not be in the same league as Pick 1. So it's in the interests of the manager to get the best out of Pick 1...without needing to mention it as a rule.
its pretty easy to implement so if people prefer that way id be open to that. Just one question, if all managers get a 100M budjet for a central figure and lets say 3 managers bid 100M for a same player, what then?
Dont know, not knowing who will you get and watching them reveiling one by one it looks much more interesting then this but im not playing so its up to you guys to decide what would you prefer.
I guess the answer would be that I don't consider the above a likely scenario. If you ignore the theme, I don't see how you can escape some very fundamental criticism: You'll be using your star player in a way most would call unnatural, inefficient, not ideal, or just plain wrong. And the only way you can compensate for that is by fielding a superior cast - to your opponent - elsewhere. But the latter shouldn't be possible to any great extent here, given the blocks and whatnot.
But no - if someone blatantly fecked up in this regard, or even worse simply disregarded the premise, but nevertheless somehow managed to put out an overall better team, I wouldn't vote for them.
If I voted at all, I would use my vote to punish 'em for their feck-up and/or lack of respect for the spirit of the draft.
you answered your own question, by the theme of the draft team 2 should get the vote so you vote for team 2
I realize some voters wont be bothered to read rules, tactics and debate in match thread but you cant fix that in any draft unless you have a closed voting pool which is impossible.
The point here, however, is that asking the voters to consider this:
«Which manager has used his star man in the best way?»
as the only relevant factor, might be too much. It could be bloody hard to make the call in many cases too. And then there's the obvious problem with x number of players whose characteristics won't be directly (or even indirectly) relevant when judging how well the star man would thrive - it's pretty complicated, in other words.
«Which manager has used his star man in the best way?»
as the only relevant factor, might be too much. It could be bloody hard to make the call in many cases too. And then there's the obvious problem with x number of players whose characteristics won't be directly (or even indirectly) relevant when judging how well the star man would thrive - it's pretty complicated, in other words.
Guess you can draw lots for those 3 in question, also they run the risk on ending up at 14th despite not getting their man.
But I agree that it could be nice to be forced to research into someone you don't know very well...
I know it isnt perfect but i got tired of super-teams with 4 offensive goat players that all had the main role in their team yet in draft they all play together etc.
This is the best what i managed to create that will put focus on one central figure in the team.
This is the best what i managed to create that will put focus on one central figure in the team.
The tricky thing about judging the match threads based on using the star player in the best way is that unless everyone is given an AMC or striker, its inherently tough to make comparisons between positions. If one manager has a striker and the other has a CB, I don't think its easy to determine which team is a better tactical fit.
In fact, defenders probably shouldn't be in the first round pool for this reason. Its a tricky question to answer anyway but comparing building around a CB to building around an AMC probably wouldn't work
In fact, defenders probably shouldn't be in the first round pool for this reason. Its a tricky question to answer anyway but comparing building around a CB to building around an AMC probably wouldn't work
all attacking minded players, defenders are just not that interesting(for this project) apart few GOAT ones.
I agree 100%.
Like I said, give it a go.
But you need to sort out the - let's say - CB problem. The risk is that picking certain players won't hold much interest, as they won't be more than window dressing - not being relevant to how well the star man would fare in the setup.
I had an idea once where you'd be given half a team (an actual, historical one), and then had to flesh it out.
If you want to keep the non-match format and focus completely on tactical picks around the star man, you could simply provide the managers with the defence said star man played with during his peak.
E.g. You get (or buy) C. Ronaldo '08, you also get (or buy) VDS, Evra, Vidic, Rio, Brown.
In other words, you simply scrap that part of the drafting.
I think there's mileage in that concept.
I concur.
In
physio found a very good solution IMO
Like in one of the previous drafts(cant remember which though) we use that group stage instead of the first round, that way we quickly get rid of the weak links and from QF both other tactical fits and quality of players becomes important as everyone should have a quality setup by then, specially after reinforcements.
Like in one of the previous drafts(cant remember which though) we use that group stage instead of the first round, that way we quickly get rid of the weak links and from QF both other tactical fits and quality of players becomes important as everyone should have a quality setup by then, specially after reinforcements.
Have another question for you guys....do you want that we publicly announce central figures of each team OR do you want to get that player via PM so nobody knows until the end around who are you building the team. We can even implement a game around half way of the draft so you guys can guess the other hidden players, who ever gets it right has the option of a double dip.
Hidden!
@Šjor Bepo I was thinking about this for a bit, but will you allow managers to select the player's teammates freely and start to properly replicate a team that was actually built around said central figure, or will you be placing a restriction on that?
For example (bad one, but whatever), if someone gets Shearer, will they be free to get the whole Newcastle side in order to properly build a team, or will they be restricted to, say, 2 of his teammates?
In my opinion, I feel like we need a restriction in order to make the drafting process more interesting and not just replicate a team that proved itself in getting the best out of said player.
For example (bad one, but whatever), if someone gets Shearer, will they be free to get the whole Newcastle side in order to properly build a team, or will they be restricted to, say, 2 of his teammates?
In my opinion, I feel like we need a restriction in order to make the drafting process more interesting and not just replicate a team that proved itself in getting the best out of said player.
That's a great idea imo, would spice things up and gets you thinking right up until the end.
Its in the rules already, you cant pick teammates of the main player.
Announce publicly, unless you can prevent anyone from picking him in the snake order. Would just cause delays in someone picks a hidden player and needs to re-pick again.
And no double dip. Let's keep it even for all.
Oh crap, I must have missed that. That's pretty good!
No point really I think. Tactical subs are most likely used to counter opponent strengths, while this draft is more focused on building a team around a certain player so probably your starting formation would be the best fit you think your star player will be in.
Say I get Gullit as my 1st pick for example, and I use him Right AM in a 4-3-2-1 and it generates lot of debate. It will be easier to move him to a #10 or a SS in a 4-4-2 diamond easily without making any subs. Not really sure why that needs to be banned.
Wasn't the same for the remake draft?
Think if you do get criticized for the use of your best player a sub later on would be too late to recuperate anyway.