New Left Back

bucky said:
Wouldn't be my first choice either. From that list I'd definitely prefer Ricardo Pereira or Dalbert.
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I like Sidibie but one of the main reasons was he'd operated on both flanks so I thought he'd cover LB while Shaw gor sorted out and be ready to switch flanks and replace Valencia in a season, but given Shaw is such a crock and Tony V has signed a 2 year deal while Jose still uses Axel, Bailly and TFM as cover, I don't think we need to take the multi functional approach and just buy a straight LB.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
Samir is a CB. Still a good player and could be a potential back up/future starter CB. And could cover at LB on occasions. Seems a bit reckless though. Telles lacks physique. Imagine Juan Mata on meth.
The rest i have not seen enough of, but will check them out.
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Samir, from what I've read, has almost exclusively played LB this season and he's been good at it.
 
Devil may care said:
Telles is a decent option I think, I know he got himself stupidly sent off against Juve but the other times I've seen him play for Porto he's been good. Sidibie has struggled this season when asked to play at LB and I think @JPRouve would agree he's even been shaky defensively at RB.
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Sidibé is genuinely great going forward and genuinely terrible at defending, he is one of the rare fullbacks that can actually play as a wide midfielder without problem though.
Otherwise, I share @bucky choices, Dalbert and Pereira are decent players.
 
JPRouve said:
Sidibé is genuinely great going forward and genuinely terrible at defending, he is one of the rare fullbacks that can actually play as a wide midfielder without problem though.
Otherwise, I share @bucky choices, Dalbert and Pereira are decent players.
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I'm not familiar with Dalbert, was he playing regularly in the first half of the season?
 
bucky said:
Samir, from what I've read, has almost exclusively played LB this season and he's been good at it.
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Half of his games at LB, and the rest as CB i think. When he played in Brazil he was a CB. Kind of the same as with Rudiger at Roma; Is a CB, but played as RB due to injuries. Still has his best position as CB.
 
JPRouve said:
It could also win us the league, like any other transfer could fail or succeed.
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Bottom line, over this past season Shaw has demonstrated being an unreliable LB, due to lack of fitness and injuries as well. So depending on him throughout a season would be a gamble, as you said. If we want to challenge for trophies, we can't be gambling like that. This doesn't mean we need to sell him, but he hasn't done near enough to make the position his.
 
manunited1919 said:
Bottom line, over this past season Shaw has demonstrated being an unreliable LB, due to lack of fitness and injuries as well. So depending on him throughout a season would be a gamble, as you said. If we want to challenge for trophies, we can't be gambling like that. This doesn't mean we need to sell him, but he hasn't done near enough to make the position his.
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Look, it's simple I would prefer a right back because we don't have any competition for Valencia. On the other side we have Darmian who is defensively good which is what Mourinho wants at the opposite of Valencia and we have Shaw, plus Rojo in case of problem. If I was Mourinho, I would purchase an attacking right back and a potential starting CB. The starting CB would fight with Bailly and Rojo while Tuanzebe and Fosu-Mensah cover the injuries.

Now if you think replacing Shaw is more important than covering Valencia, it's fine.
 
Personally I don't think Mendy would suit Jose, he's a lot like Shaw in that he is much better going forward and Jose doesn't want that. So I think he'd find a lot of the same problems Shaw had when he was fit under Jose.

I'd personally go for a RB but then Fosu, Bailly,Young,Herrera all put better performances in in that position compared to Valencia. Valencia is solid, sound, very Jose like, no frills and offers very little of quality in an attacking sense where in when all those guys showed up there they did more.
 
Devil may care said:
Gotcha, so Pereira played the whole season as RB?
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They both played fullback and wingback, on opposite sides. But I remember Pereira playing on the left a handful of times, Malang Sarr too.
 
Devil may care said:
I'm not being unfair, your view just absolves Jose of any fault in each case and my viewpoint doesn't. To me it's noticeable that Jose's problems are always with flair players, even here at United he's struggled with Martial but worships Rashord, now the output of both has been relatively poor this season in an attacking sense compared to how they did under LvG, but Rashford is favoured because he grafts better. As far as Ronnie goes, Fergie built our system to cover for the fact Ronaldo didn't track back, as Rio said the lads didn't mind because he's special and you want him fully focused on his main job, which is attacking. Hazard has been diplomatic in how he handled his collapse last season, but it's again no coincidence that he has had a season of more consistent performance under Conte who has used a system that gives Hazard a free role with no defensive responsibilities.
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Jose is by no means faultless. His faults are many. Very long list in fact. I still have my doubts about him lasting at United.

But I am a bit wary of comments that are based on assumptions and hear says to back up generally accepted notions about a manager.

It is not true that Jose's problems are always with flair players. Jose has problems with different types of players. Pepe, Shaw, Ramos, Cassillas, Diego Costa etc, are not flair players if you want to describe what Mourinho had with them as 'problems'. So, why isolate the flair ones?
I suspect Jose generally struggles with human relationships.

You said he 'worships' Rashford. Maybe he does but did you hear what he said about the reason why he loves the kid? Mental toughness. He said Rashford is the type of player he can be frank with and demand a lot from yet, the boy will keep putting in the shift and not drop his head. Do you honestly believe he has problems with Martial just because Martial is a flair player? Come on.

About Hazard, how in the world do you know he was merely being diplomatic (meaning he was not being honest)? Can you read his mind? Do you have chats with him? Hazard has said clearly that he had no out of the ordinary issues with Jose. Jose himself has not had one bad word to say about the lad. So where did people get this idea? In a very bad season, obviously a team would have some friction here and there and for a lousy loser like Jose, one can guess he would rub off badly on some players during such a time.
 
GM K said:
You said he 'worships' Rashford. Maybe he does but did you hear what he said about the reason why he loves the kid? Mental toughness. He said Rashford is the type of player he can be frank with and demand a lot from yet, the boy will keep putting in the shift and not drop his head. Do you honestly believe he has problems with Martial just because Martial is a flair player? Come on.
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Yes I heard it and no I don't think it's because Martial has flair that Jose has an issue with him, I think it's becasue Martial is an attacker that isn't a natural worker who bases his game on his helping the fullback over attacking the opposition fullback, and he's found it hard to become something he's not suited to.

About Hazard, how in the world do you know he was merely being diplomatic (meaning he was not being honest)? Can you read his mind? Do you have chats with him? Hazard has said clearly that he had no out of the ordinary issues with Jose. Jose himself has not had one bad word to say about the lad. So where did people get this idea? In a very bad season, obviously a team would have some friction here and there and for a lousy loser like Jose, one can guess he would rub off badly on some players during such a time.
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No, I don't know Hazard personally, but the contrast between him this season and the bottom he scraped the season before is clear, and by far the biggest change is that Conte has a system set up that frees Hazard from defensive duties.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
Have we compiled a list of options available?
As far as i know these are "available" LBs that are good enough.
Options available:
Rose(Levy-valuation) - 50£ - Unstable. Defensive errors. Rather have Bertrand.
Mendy(Monaco)- 50£ - Big, heavy, good foot. Said to be not that professional(Partying. If Rooney stays for another year they might become BFFs)
Sandro(Juventus)- 60£ - Best all round LB in the world. (Marcelo is the better attacker, but Sandro clearly better in defense.)
Emerson(Roma)- 30£ - Torn ACL on sunday. Very similar to Alex Sandro in abilities and playing style, not that experienced though. Check out his goal against Villarreal!
Jordi Alba(Barcelona)- 30£ - New coach want to sell him. Fast, technical, attacking.
Bertrand(Southampton)- 20£ - Average.
Vain Rooney(Nightclub/McDonalds/Swamp in the middle of a forest) - 250 000£ a week - Since he has not played as a left back before he might do well there?

Anyone now about other options?
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Rose is so much better than Bertrand.
 
BTW, what is the status of Shaw? What was the injury and when is he expected to return? If he's not expected to be back before Oct/Nov, then of course we need another LB. Darmian is a decent backup, but I doubt Jose wants to start him in a large portion of our campaign next year. Blind could fill in, but again, a backup. Need a LB in the Evra mould, someone who makes the position his own, and not switching between Blind & Darmian depending on who we're playing and whether either of those two have to spell another player at RB or CB.

Shame about Shaw, as he was really making the position his own before that injury. Unless he's back by early September, I really don't think he'll get a new contract from United.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
Yeah, but if you spend 50£ on Rose, then you will have used a lot of the transfer kitty.
Assuming that Aurier as RB cost 30£.

Then what would you rather have for 50£?
Rose or Aurier AND Bertrand?
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To be honest I don't think Bertrand is up to standard so wouldn't want him at all. Darmian is adequate cover for back up so I think we need to get a top class LB in.
 
JPRouve said:
Look, it's simple I would prefer a right back because we don't have any competition for Valencia. On the other side we have Darmian who is defensively good which is what Mourinho wants at the opposite of Valencia and we have Shaw, plus Rojo in case of problem. If I was Mourinho, I would purchase an attacking right back and a potential starting CB. The starting CB would fight with Bailly and Rojo while Tuanzebe and Fosu-Mensah cover the injuries.

Now if you think replacing Shaw is more important than covering Valencia, it's fine.
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We do have some cover for Valencia, as Darmian can play as RB perfectly well. We also have the potential to play Tuanzabe as RB; I was very impressed with the job he did against Arsenal while playing RB.
 
Devil may care said:
Yes I heard it and no I don't think it's because Martial has flair that Jose has an issue with him, I think it's becasue Martial is an attacker that isn't a natural worker who bases his game on his helping the fullback over attacking the opposition fullback, and he's found it hard to become something he's not suited to.


No, I don't know Hazard personally, but the contrast between him this season and the bottom he scraped the season before is clear, and by far the biggest change is that Conte has a system set up that frees Hazard from defensive duties.
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I have to agree with you on that about Martial.

As for the whole tracking back thing and Eden Hazard, here's something Conte said after their game with Arsenal:


'Today I am pleased for his work above all without the ball, defensively.

'He played with great attention and with great concentration. When we are able to work together in this way it is simple to try to win.'


( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...pleases-Antonio-Conte-most.html#ixzz4iayYhNzg )


There are few managers in world football today who demand more than Conte, that every player defends when the opponent has the ball. Please check out his Juventus team, the Italy national team when he managed them and his current Chelsea team. A Conte player must work hard including Hazard. Hazard has played, this season, exactly the way Jose wanted him to play back then.

People always criticize Jose for this but they need to watch the best teams in the world in these modern times. Look at Barcelona for all their attacking play, once they don't have the ball, they defend like crazy and fight to get the ball back. Check out Messi and Ronaldo any time. Those two legends don't kid around. They don't stay in front merely waiting for the ball. They fight for it. You'll see them back defending when the opponent is threatening to score. Hazard plays that way now despite his free role.

Jose can be blamed for many things but demanding that his players track back and defend or that wingers shall fall back to help their full backs when the team does not have the ball should not be one of them.

Anyway mate, I don't want to derail this thread any longer. You offer some really good points so please don't take my counter arguments to mean I don't appreciate some of your submissions.

Cheers.
 
GM K said:
I have to agree with you on that about Martial.

As for the whole tracking back thing and Eden Hazard, here's something Conte said after their game with Arsenal:


'Today I am pleased for his work above all without the ball, defensively.

'He played with great attention and with great concentration. When we are able to work together in this way it is simple to try to win.'


( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...pleases-Antonio-Conte-most.html#ixzz4iayYhNzg )


There are few managers in world football today who demand more than Conte, that every player defends when the opponent has the ball. Please check out his Juventus team, the Italy national team when he managed them and his current Chelsea team. A Conte player must work hard including Hazard. Hazard has played, this season, exactly the way Jose wanted him to play back then.

People always criticize Jose for this but they need to watch the best teams in the world in these modern times. Look at Barcelona for all their attacking play, once they don't have the ball, they defend like crazy and fight to get the ball back. Check out Messi and Ronaldo any time. Those two legends don't kid around. They don't stay in front merely waiting for the ball. They fight for it. You'll see them back defending when the opponent is threatening to score. Hazard plays that way now despite his free role.

Jose can be blamed for many things but demanding that his players track back and defend or that wingers shall fall back to help their full backs when the team does not have the ball should not be one of them.

Anyway mate, I don't want to derail this thread any longer. You offer some really good points so please don't take my counter arguments to mean I don't appreciate some of your submissions.

Cheers.
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Great post. There's only very few footballers good enough to warrant ignoring their defensive work and Martial is not one of them.
 
RU Devil said:
BTW, what is the status of Shaw? What was the injury and when is he expected to return? If he's not expected to be back before Oct/Nov, then of course we need another LB. Darmian is a decent backup, but I doubt Jose wants to start him in a large portion of our campaign next year. Blind could fill in, but again, a backup. Need a LB in the Evra mould, someone who makes the position his own, and not switching between Blind & Darmian depending on who we're playing and whether either of those two have to spell another player at RB or CB.

Shame about Shaw, as he was really making the position his own before that injury. Unless he's back by early September, I really don't think he'll get a new contract from United.
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He's really struggled psychologically this season; it's a shame because he was the best one-one defender in the league and could be United's leftback for the next 10 years.

I can see him going to Spurs and Pocchettino getting the best out of him again, possibly in exchange for Rose. That'd be a great deal for all parties, but...

I'd keep him on the books; loan him to Jose's pal Pulis at West Brom for a season, let him build him up in a less demanding environment and bring him back a man. He's worth waiting for IMO.
 
GM K said:
Jose is by no means faultless. His faults are many. Very long list in fact. I still have my doubts about him lasting at United.

But I am a bit wary of comments that are based on assumptions and hear says to back up generally accepted notions about a manager.

It is not true that Jose's problems are always with flair players. Jose has problems with different types of players. Pepe, Shaw, Ramos, Cassillas, Diego Costa etc, are not flair players if you want to describe what Mourinho had with them as 'problems'. So, why isolate the flair ones?
I suspect Jose generally struggles with human relationships.

You said he 'worships' Rashford. Maybe he does but did you hear what he said about the reason why he loves the kid? Mental toughness. He said Rashford is the type of player he can be frank with and demand a lot from yet, the boy will keep putting in the shift and not drop his head. Do you honestly believe he has problems with Martial just because Martial is a flair player? Come on.

About Hazard, how in the world do you know he was merely being diplomatic (meaning he was not being honest)? Can you read his mind? Do you have chats with him? Hazard has said clearly that he had no out of the ordinary issues with Jose. Jose himself has not had one bad word to say about the lad. So where did people get this idea? In a very bad season, obviously a team would have some friction here and there and for a lousy loser like Jose, one can guess he would rub off badly on some players during such a time.
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Do you not think that moving hazard centrally allowed him to do more and better defensive work?

I mean I can see that martial struggles but I also do believe that he is trying. If anything I feel that it limits his game to defend or attack consistently from the left. It makes his game very easy to read.
 
Home&Away said:
Do you not think that moving hazard centrally allowed him to do more and better defensive work?

I mean I can see that martial struggles but I also do believe that he is trying. If anything I feel that it limits his game to defend or attack consistently from the left. It makes his game very easy to read.
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Martial's problem last season was not because he was asked to defend. I remember so many times he couldn't control the ball well, he couldn't beat the man in front of him, he lost the ball consistently, he made poor decisions on the pitch etc. He basically struggled to do the most basic things right.

Let's face it, the kid simply had a bad season. It happens in football. It had nothing to do with tactics. There are so many examples of players who were 'wrongly' positioned by their managers yet you could always see that they had no problems doing the most basic things well. The only problem was that you just knew they could have better outputs. One that quickly comes to mind is Cavani. He hated playing on the wings but Zlatan couldn't be moved from the center for him. Nevertheless, you could still see Cavani's class and his stats were fine. But after Zlatan left, he was moved to his preferred position and he thrived there. His stats improved and you could see he was much happier.

Martial's last season was too shocking considering his first season. It was easy to notice that something was not just right in his head.
 
AP88 said:
Probably the most complete leftback in Europe, but do elaborate....
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Very bold statement there. Offensively he is especially limited and I'm looking for Evra's heir. It should have been Shaw but clearly that's not going very well
 
AP88 said:
Probably the most complete leftback in Europe, but do elaborate....
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PROBABLY NOT!
Does the name Alex Sandro ring a bell?
Rose is top 2 in PL, but that is not saying much as Alonso, Rose and arguably Bertrand are the only ones worth mentioning.
Arsenal has Monreal who is not very good! For them.
City has Clichy and kolaorov... Over the top.
Liverpool has Milner....
We have Shaw(injured) and Blind(hobbit) and Rojo(CB)
Tottenham has Davies as a backup who would/might have been a starter for all the above mentioned teams.
Baines(only good for set pieces as of now)

As for complete left backs in Europe better than Rose:
Alex Sandro, Jodri Alba, Felipe Luis, David Alaba, Emerson, Alonso, Kursawa, Mendy and most likely 1 from Liga NOS. And probably some others as well.

Elaboration against Rose;
  • Inconsistency.
  • Crossing.
  • Playing as a winger--> Same as Marcelo, therefore not been thoroughly tested as a defensive FB--> Can not be called a complete FB.
  • Lounging into tackles--> Learn something from Azpilicueta, not Walker.
Still better than most PL left backs, not that it is saying much.

Please watch some football outside PL before coming with wrong statements.
 
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Acole9 said:
It's because he's English, they're all average apparently.
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So you're saying that being English somehow automatically makes him better than the others? Not sure what his nationality has to do with anything though English players are hugely and consistently overrated in the media
 
Seriously, Sebastian Fuchs. One of the most underrated players in the league.
 
Harry190 said:
Seriously, Sebastian Fuchs. One of the most underrated players in the league.
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Would 100% rather see Fuchs name on our team sheet than Darmian, but that isn't saying much at all. Feel we should aim higher, we are the richest club in the world and we should spend like it for our weakest positions whilst we're in this state on the pitch.
 
Thought it a certainty we'd sign one a couple of months back but now don't think so, mainly because we have a number of players who can play there and a fair few bigger priorities.
 
Prodigal7 said:
So you're saying that being English somehow automatically makes him better than the others? Not sure what his nationality has to do with anything though English players are hugely and consistently overrated in the media
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I think he's saying the opposite. Because he's English, some posters on here underrate him. At least thats what I thought he meant.
 
Just seen Alex Sandro linked to arsenal and man city on sky sports, how on earth are we not in for him?
 
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