I would be very much against that. It would just end up with posters ganging on another trying to demote them to the newbies as quickly as possible.
The ability to grant/take away reputation posts should only be given to Moderators or Scouts.
New forum for football talk
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I would be very much against that. It would just end up with posters ganging on another trying to demote them to the newbies as quickly as possible.
The ability to grant/take away reputation posts should only be given to Moderators or Scouts.
The problem with further reputation based "promotion" is who gives out the rep points? Let everyone do it and muppets will be repping each other and leave it up to the mods and it puts too great a time pressure on us. In the latter case you might as well just have it as a manual process but we are trying to steer away from that approach.
The only other way it would work is to select rep scouts as we have done in the newbie. I'm not sure that is a manageable proposition in the forum as a whole.
I think the way forwards is for the decent posters to make an effort to keep posting in the football forums and in particular start decent threads. We are going to try a more hands on approach to modding the football forum, although the complaining has already started when we merge threads or even comment asking people to look for thread topics before duplicating threads. WUMery in the football threads will be discouraged, particularly when it is so overt as to seriously disrupt discussions. In return it would be nice if a few of the more fervent "I despise scousers" mob could try to avoid turning every single comment made by a scouser into a war especially when it sidetracks football discussion.
Anyone posting fake goals and the like in the matchday forums will be excluded from that forum for a significant period, possibly permanently.
We will also be trying to keep threads on topic and mindless abuse free. We will be using the infraction system so that it is people who can't take a hint who are eventually banned permanently. Bear in mind that many of the people you all think should be banned have infraction points already and if they carry on they will get banned.
The hardest posters to control are the CM generation who rarely step out of line enough to get banned but swamp us with general cluelessness. We have canned a couple of posters this week for extreme examples of idiocy but it is so value laden a judgement that it is hard to manage systematically.
It is all very well to whinge that the football forums are shit and then do feck all to change the situation.
The only other way it would work is to select rep scouts as we have done in the newbie. I'm not sure that is a manageable proposition in the forum as a whole.
I think the way forwards is for the decent posters to make an effort to keep posting in the football forums and in particular start decent threads. We are going to try a more hands on approach to modding the football forum, although the complaining has already started when we merge threads or even comment asking people to look for thread topics before duplicating threads. WUMery in the football threads will be discouraged, particularly when it is so overt as to seriously disrupt discussions. In return it would be nice if a few of the more fervent "I despise scousers" mob could try to avoid turning every single comment made by a scouser into a war especially when it sidetracks football discussion.
Anyone posting fake goals and the like in the matchday forums will be excluded from that forum for a significant period, possibly permanently.
We will also be trying to keep threads on topic and mindless abuse free. We will be using the infraction system so that it is people who can't take a hint who are eventually banned permanently. Bear in mind that many of the people you all think should be banned have infraction points already and if they carry on they will get banned.
The hardest posters to control are the CM generation who rarely step out of line enough to get banned but swamp us with general cluelessness. We have canned a couple of posters this week for extreme examples of idiocy but it is so value laden a judgement that it is hard to manage systematically.
It is all very well to whinge that the football forums are shit and then do feck all to change the situation.
That sounds quite fair.
I liked the idea we were thinking of before, but can appreciate it would be very hard to moderate.
I think what you said should work, as long as the message gets out clear enough, people will stop taking it for a joke.
I liked the idea we were thinking of before, but can appreciate it would be very hard to moderate.
I think what you said should work, as long as the message gets out clear enough, people will stop taking it for a joke.
Multiple breakaway forums?
There are no mods, only admins at the moment but now that the traffic is way up we may well have forum specific mods in the future.
Your idea has strengths and weaknesses i reckon. Obviously, the level of nonsense bring spouted is on the rise, but one of the worst features of this entire forum is this intimidating tone a handful of senior posters go around with, and it's often they who turn things into debate by calling people names, and generally feeling their opinion is worth a bit more than it is. There is a general tone of posters on here, relative to their post count. Those with over 20 ir 25k are very dismissive of everyone else, and disrespectful of most opinions that don't come from another poster with similar post count. They have this condescending idea that they know the game, while everyone else simply forms views from computer games.
That said, many of the seniors are cool. There's that senior band, then you have me, the self-proclaimed 'leader of the new school', the skipper of the younger generation
Could you PM me the latest graphics please (monthly basis over 4 years)?
Should not exist!
I'm neither here nor there on the issue.
I think it's working in regards to the Newbie Forum though.
No, it's giving people privileges behind everyone else's backs (it's done by stealth and it stinks). It's my major beef, I seriously never agreed with it. You lot should have been made moderators.
Interesting, I wasn't expected that to be your view.
I've never really thought about it, but what you say is right though, it is very secret and private. Is there a reason it isn't publicized?
Perhaps being made a moderator would have been too much power though.
I suppose that to make Hectic's and my ideas work there would need to be a radical revamp of the way these forums work, and introduction of an entirely new "Moderator" rank. And I can see that that just isn't workable, at least not in the near future.
However, I did not realise that such an "infraction system" was already in place -- it sounds somewhat similar to what I tried to suggest at the start.
And Wibble -- when people start complaining about things the Admins do with the new "hands on" system, feck 'em Honestly, though, they're not the ones burdened with making the whole system work, and if the Admins think something should be done then some people whining shouldn't prevent it.
Sometimes I think that threads are created here for an entirely selfish purpose, "look at me! I have a specific question and I want you all to answer it and pay attention to me! Yay!". Merging the threads takes away their attention-seeking thrill and is bound to cause them upset. People who want to truly discuss things do so in the main thread.
However, I did not realise that such an "infraction system" was already in place -- it sounds somewhat similar to what I tried to suggest at the start.
And Wibble -- when people start complaining about things the Admins do with the new "hands on" system, feck 'em
Honestly, though, they're not the ones burdened with making the whole system work, and if the Admins think something should be done then some people whining shouldn't prevent it. Sometimes I think that threads are created here for an entirely selfish purpose, "look at me! I have a specific question and I want you all to answer it and pay attention to me! Yay!". Merging the threads takes away their attention-seeking thrill and is bound to cause them upset. People who want to truly discuss things do so in the main thread.
You know my opinion on the matter. I deleted myself over it remember? Well, that and a few other things.
Eh? Selected senior posters are allowed into the newbies and they have repping rights. This isn't a secret in any way.
You might be right about them being made mods for that forum.
Power is delegated on a usergroup basis that any admin can setup.
It hasn't been kept a secret even if we haven't advertised to avoid you getting even more begging PMs.
I'm for neg rep for overt begging. IMHO of course.
I have to agree, I pick an example here cos he's a great lad and I hope to welcome him to OT this coming season, so I clearly have no vendetta against him (as no doubt Jason will soon accuse me of
) but I believe Marcos is such a poster with newbie access, with a mandate to scout talent. Given he's self confessed that his English isn't the greatest though seems fine to me, it's perhaps not the greatest choice, but then that he rarely if ever posts on the football or United forum because he doesn't feel his opinion or knowledge of United is up to the task (something I content with him is nonsense and urge him to reconsider). Which makes me wonder how such a gig came about for him? Hectic you too, self confessed hardly post on either of the football forums anymore, but charged with scouting for talent. Scouting for the general fine, but there seems to be a fundimental lack of sense there?And how many knobchops have been promoted through this secret repping? It's not transparent, where is the list of these "select few"?
Senior posters? Is Davo one?
When I was in the Newbies it always seemed to me to be fairly obvious who was giving the reputation points -- it was the guys and gals with more than 200 posts apiece
And it was made totally clear, too, that that was how we would get promoted. Selected people from the main forum would decide whether what we wrote was worthy of inclusion. Seemed fair to me. But maybe I'm totally missing your point, I'm known to do that
And it was made totally clear, too, that that was how we would get promoted. Selected people from the main forum would decide whether what we wrote was worthy of inclusion. Seemed fair to me. But maybe I'm totally missing your point, I'm known to do that
I'm really not sure why I thought it was secret in the first place. I remember when the newbies wasn't private, so many posters already knew the senior posters could post there anyway.
What did you mean about the last bit Wibble? Are you for neg repping newbies who beg?
It's late and I'm stupid.
I have to agree, I pick an example here cos he's a great lad and I hope to welcome him to OT this coming season, so I clearly have no vendetta against him (as no doubt Jason will soon accuse me of
Can't comment on why I was picked for the scouting job. But I have made a conscious effort to start posting in United and Football forums. I posted a lot in the Newbie one, but now I've started in the Mains too.
Can I be frank here? I don't want to upset the apple cart!
Answer is obviously no!
So be it.
So be it.
He may have gone to bed -- it is 3.40am
Why does it need to be transparent? And to who?
I think the list is
Hectic
Suresh
MuM
Marcos
Jason
Smashed
Sincher
Mehro
Was that it? I didn't notice the specifics that much, rather just stood back and watched the show.
I actually though it was mainly because we (in general) wanted to be far more conservative/consistent re banning idiots for being idiots?
And mehro!
I don't really care. I probably wouldn't for a simple polite PM but if repeated begging or whinging occured I would.
Was that it? I didn't notice the specifics that much, rather just stood back and watched the show.
I actually though it was mainly because we (in general) wanted to be far more conservative/consistent re banning idiots for being idiots?
As I said, amongst other things.
Come to think of it, it's probably best not to air the dirty laundry in public however, but that scouting system really pissed me off. Why should a select and unknown few have the ability to view the newbie forum and also promote people? They should have been made moderators, fact. Also, the reason it was done was to make admin life easier. As I said in my final rant, it's fecking lazy.
You called these scouts "senior posters". Not one of them is a senior poster. I can't see the newbie, and I was one of the very first that used to be able to access it way back when it was first made. I bet every one of the scouts were at one point a newbie. Thus we go back to the the original post of the thread. Do you lot really not see what is happening here? Davo isn't doing this to wind people up, he probably really feels that way. How many of the original posters have been lost?
It's sweep the dirt under the rug mentality, oh, nobody will see it there, everything is fine (well everything isn't fine is it?). That is what pisses me off.
Why does it have to be transparent?
If you do not know the answer to that question, conversation is over on my part.
I never thought that he was simply being a WUM. The football forums are far poorer than they used to be although I think the majority of that is due to the mass invasion of cyberspace by the pubescent MySpace generation. Not much you can do about that.
As for posters leaving. It has always happened. Few people stay on a forum for 5+ years no matter what the quality. Having said that we don't want help the process so we will be making an effort to police the football forums this year and it would be great if the old timers could weight in and make the effort to post football stuff and start football threads.
I'm going to play with my PS3!
I hate it when you do that, it's impossible to quote you! You take the easy road and then someone else has to take the hard road to quote you!
Anyway, why the hell are you talking to me as if I was say Brad on a moan. For example, I am quite aware of the part in bold - remember? (FFS, dont start giving the standard group mod line to me - I asked whether I should be frank and I am restraining from being so, don't bullshit me after that just drop it):
As for the rest of it, that's your opinion, and false in mine.
It probably is then. I see no reason to inform everyone of the minuate of every little aspect of the Caf, particularly those bits that make no difference to anyone. Why does it matter who is repping newbie posts anyway? This has been going on even more informally since the newbie was created without comment or problem.
With regards to Davo's idea, which was last mentioned about three pages back;
It's a decent idea in theory. The main problem with an elitist football forum would be the inevitable bickering over who should and shouldn't be allowed in, and over who should and shouldn't be allowed to decide who gets let in. You'll never get everyone to agree, or even compromise.
Then there'd be the spazzers who think it makes them a better person, because they have access to a special forum on some internet site.
It'd all get very gay
It's a decent idea in theory. The main problem with an elitist football forum would be the inevitable bickering over who should and shouldn't be allowed in, and over who should and shouldn't be allowed to decide who gets let in. You'll never get everyone to agree, or even compromise.
Then there'd be the spazzers who think it makes them a better person, because they have access to a special forum on some internet site.
It'd all get very gay
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