Nah, that'd be the easy part. A few of us will decide. . .and if the majority are against a certain poster, for example, then they'll just have to be left out.
New forum for football talk
- Thread starter Davo
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Nah, that'd be the easy part. A few of us will decide. . .and if the majority are against a certain poster, for example, then they'll just have to be left out.
Brush your teeth, every day and You'll get pass to elite forum.
Still would be the same forum. Red Issue has a sanctuary. They've got the same problem as us.
Isn't a forum supposed to be about a community of posters? Doesn't having "elite" posters kind of defy that?
Yes, it does.
Interesting suggestion, I just don't think it could work.
Interesting suggestion, I just don't think it could work.
We already have a newbie forum, it'd be the exact same principle, but just a different layer.
Ah...we know who to blame now...
Then demote the idiots/kids then. Problem solved.
Demotions aren't all that bad an idea...
Electric chair would be appreciated in some cases.
Topper? He's always seemed a very knowledgable poster.
All this debating has done one good thing though, it's brought some heavy duty attention to the problem. Even if this new forum doesn't come about, at the very least when the mass culling begins no one can claim ignorance.
Perhaps all the knowledgeable posters are just in this thread...
hello
Good Point.
Does she sell it?
At one instance, Wibble argues the scout system has been a success; in another we're all clearly in recognition that the footy forum lacks quality. I'd have thought this shows that the current scout and promote system isn't working?
How did that Yeaher get promoted incidently? Name and shame, it'll be funny!
Bleh, I guess we've all got to do our bit. I just read an entire thread about how good Arsenal's young players are, and I didn't even call anyone gay or use the word overrated once in my response. It hurt and made me feel sick, but I'm brave enough to take one for the team if it means it's easier for you guys to follow suit and act responsibly.
I have to agree, I pick an example here cos he's a great lad and I hope to welcome him to OT this coming season, so I clearly have no vendetta against him (as no doubt Jason will soon accuse me of) but I believe Marcos is such a poster with newbie access, with a mandate to scout talent. Given he's self confessed that his English isn't the greatest though seems fine to me, it's perhaps not the greatest choice, but then that he rarely if ever posts on the football or United forum because he doesn't feel his opinion or knowledge of United is up to the task (something I content with him is nonsense and urge him to reconsider). Which makes me wonder how such a gig came about for him? Hectic you too, self confessed hardly post on either of the football forums anymore, but charged with scouting for talent. Scouting for the general fine, but there seems to be a fundimental lack of sense there?
you don't have to know everything about the game to realize a poster makes good points
i don't know much about english football history, and every argument ends there. Someone saying "that's not what your fans where saying in 1970 when you bought Mcfecker and said he was a great sucker". When that happens i am left without arguments.
In a few words you dont have to paint like Van Gogh to recognize he's a great artist.
Can we stop posters like Van Porsiong from posting pictures in reply to every single thread, he's not adding anything to the conversations.
you don't have to know everything about the game to realize a poster makes good points
i don't know much about english football history, and every argument ends there. Someone saying "that's not what your fans where saying in 1970 when you bought Mcfecker and said he was a great sucker". When that happens i am left without arguments.
In a few words you dont have to paint like Van Gogh to recognize he's a great artist.
Of course not, but I think it's important that someone who scouts talent for a forum actually posts regularly in said forum
As for you being left out of arguements mate, by virtue of age I get exactly the same problem! Though that said I probably know more than your average 24 year old about Uniteds history by virtue of a mis-spent youth. It doesn't have to be a reason to avoid the place altogether though, think I remember starting a whole thread about it in the general because I was concerned good posters who only posted in there, who clearly came to the place with the intention of posting about United, felt unable to do so for such reasons. It's not just the crap posters guilty of causing that environment, it's some of the more regular and experienced folk a little too quick to look down their noses at others they consider below them sometimes.
If postivie change is to occur, I think everyone has to take some responsibility on for it
The scout system has been a success. I don't have to post regularly in the Main Football Forums to be able to spot posters who belong there. The fact that I read it more then any other forum is enough for me to decide if they are of that quality or not.
The Football Forum lacks quality, but that's not always down to the newbies. Infact, I would lay a lot of the blame at posters who have been here for a while and are on constant wind-ups, not to mention those 'Lets All Laugh at....' Threads which only end up in arguments. The reason it's so poor at the moment is that it's the pre-season, barely anything is worth discussing at the moment. I doubt you will see the same behavior at the start of the new season. Not only that, but also the posters who avoid that particular forum, which ends up making it worse. I am one of those people, and in an effort to change and do something about it, I have started to regularly post in the Football Forums now.
Not to mention, another problem is that a poster may look quite good in the newbies, and then once promoted act different. Many newbies know how to play off the system as well, so there have been too many promotions. I think we are undergoing a change where it will be harder to promote newbies. In terms of the scouts in the newbie forums, I think it has been a success overall.
The football forum discussions were just as poor before the newbie. The newbie was primarily set up to stop mass invasions. We used to have huge problems with 10's and even hundreds of opposition supporters registering and spamming the forums with rubbish/abuse etc before big games. This was the single most important reason we started the newbie and it has been just about 100% successful. It has also largely dealt with newer problems like serial returnees/WUMs very well.
We also hoped that it would help improve the quality of posting in the football forums, which had been declining for some time, by allowing only the better posters through and acclimatising these posters to the main forum before being let through to the main forum which was far far more brutal in the "old days". Bear in mind that 5 or 6 years ago we had 20 or 30 regular poster compares to probably ten times that number now.
In this respect the newbie was a total failure. Due to the time consuming and idiosyncratic nature of the initial promotion system (mods promoted people who seemed OK) good posters were left to languish (assuming they didn't just leave), it was hard to demonstrate your quality as a poster in the newbie anyway due to being surrounded by CM kids, idiots were quite able to disguise their idiocy until after promotion and in the end all we did was piss everyone off for little or no benefit in posting quality.
The next approach was to make the newbie a mirror of the main forum in a worthy attempt to let the newbies have a stage on which to demonstrate their quality. This worked in the sense that it probably made it easier for them, but who would know? I am on here more than most mods and I frequently didn't have the energy or time to trawl through the multitude of new forums to try to spot "talent" and neither did the other mods, even those in favour of the reorganisation in the first place. Worse still the newbie was just becoming its own forum which did nothing to improve the quality of promotees.
In the end it became apparent that the latest incarnation of the newbie was a failure and we have now tried out the newest form of newbie with a simplified structure (2 forums) and promotion in 2 ways 1) by gaining rep points from mods, admins or newbie scouts or 2) the traditional manual mod method. This has worked very well so far because, although it still does nothing to improve quality (I don't think we should even try to do this via the newbie anyway), it has still stopped almost all returnee/WUM/invader action, allowed the semi-sane through quickly and easily while vastly reducing the workload associate with the newbie. It is all very well saying that the mods should just work harder/be less lazy but we all give up much of our free time already and even with the best will in the world the sort of attention the newbie previously required just wasn't going to happen.
The way forward once the new season starts, IMO of course, is for decent posters to put their energy into posting as much as possible in the football forums, starting new threads in the football forums, reporting idiots instead of getting sidetracked into flame wars combined with much stricter modding which pulls people up for duplicating threads, spamming, CM stupidity, mindless abuse, off topic stuff that moves the thread off topic and in general trying the standard up.
We need the cooperation and support of the better posters in terms of them putting their head down and making an effort in the football forums AND not getting hormonal if they cop the odd infraction or warning during the bedding in of the new modding regime.
Talking of the infraction system, i think it will help a great deal because serial idiots who refuse to learn will eventually get a permanent ban after their two temporary bans. Some idiots are already on the edge.
if he does this to an annoying degree in the football forums once the season has begun he will be asked to stop in the first instance.
What about a scout system in the main forums? looking out for the things highlighted here as being problematic , and the result of being 'spotted' is demotion to the newbies - it would have a lot of whiney posts directed at the mods but some candidates demotions are glarilngly obvious?
I think that it has been a huge success. It has gone better than anyine could possibly have expected. We may need to tweak the points for promotion up to take the pressure off the scouts because i feel they are becoming a bit worried about giving rep points in case they make a mistake and cop the blame for promoting a numpty.
If you ever think that just chant "Wibble promoted Kofi, Wibble promoted Kofi".
We can already demote people but "demotion scouts" is a concept just begging to start gay internet wars, splinter forums and the necessity to post Plech's Richter scale image.
and lets not forget that the newbies and the main are two different worlds. I've been a scouter since last november and seen a lot of good newbies go crazy after being promoted.
How many guys that where respected in the newbie forum came here and after a post or two get bullied by old timers? i remember one case of a guy that was really good, but he had the missfortune to disagree with fredthered ... you can picture the rest of the story
he wasn't banned, i know he still lurkes the place but hasn't write a single post since last february.
now we try to explain the promoted ones how they should behave the first days
How many guys that where respected in the newbie forum came here and after a post or two get bullied by old timers? i remember one case of a guy that was really good, but he had the missfortune to disagree with fredthered ... you can picture the rest of the story
he wasn't banned, i know he still lurkes the place but hasn't write a single post since last february.
now we try to explain the promoted ones how they should behave the first days
Everybody shake your stuff, the rebel's here and he's street tough.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't have time to read through all this, but having read the first two pages, Hectic summed up my feelings on this very well:
This isn't a new idea btw (sorry Davo). The mods have discussed this option before but I'm not really in favour of it.
The caf is already two-tiered with the Newbie forum. Adding a third tier will create more problems than it will solve.
Cleaning up and improving the football forum(s) is the only viable option and that is the job of not just the mods but every single poster on the forum. Stop posting shite, get a clue and maybe things will improve, rather than just abandoning the existing setup and letting it rot.
The power of one and all that....
This isn't a new idea btw (sorry Davo). The mods have discussed this option before but I'm not really in favour of it.
The caf is already two-tiered with the Newbie forum. Adding a third tier will create more problems than it will solve.
Cleaning up and improving the football forum(s) is the only viable option and that is the job of not just the mods but every single poster on the forum. Stop posting shite, get a clue and maybe things will improve, rather than just abandoning the existing setup and letting it rot.
The power of one and all that....
OK, since the "All Powerful Super Being" has spoken, we should just drop the idea of a new football forum and concentrate on how to improve our existing forum.
If demotion was a more visible and regular occurence maybe the muppetry would recede slightly. People are aware of banning and most behave accordingly ... can i see the Richter scale image?
I agree with Niall funnily enough.
Yes, I think so.
That's not the issue really. The point is most aren't capable of a reasonable discussion.
The newbie isn't meant to be a punishment so i don't think it should be used as one for posters who are in the main forum. This is just my opinion mind and from time to time we do demote people. I would have thought that infractions that can lead to a ban are a far greater incentive to lifet your game TBH.
And ........
Exactly
Perhaps this thread should be locked?
It's clear that it won't happen, and the people who could make it happen, have made it clear no such course of action shall be taken.
Let's just do our bit and make this place a better one!
It's clear that it won't happen, and the people who could make it happen, have made it clear no such course of action shall be taken.
Let's just do our bit and make this place a better one!
Yes. Let's delete half of the posters.
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