Nemanja Matic| BBC says deal agreed
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I'm sorry that doesn't explain much for me.
First off the stats decline is year on year, before Kante and Luiz and Conte.
Secondly, If Luiz is stepping into midfield it means Matic is not bound to a sitting DM/Anchor role (which he is not, actually), otherwise you have 2 players sitting deep in midfield. Yet the distance he covers has decreased. Thirdly, if he's surrounded by defensive players, you'd expect his passing/possession numbers to go up, since he's the only player in that midfield who'd classify as a player maker with Fabregas on the bench. Yet his passes have also gone down.
Generally speaking, the stats indicate that games pass him by more in comparison. He is not as much of an influence on the game as he was. You can't explain all his stats going down to teammate and formation change, mate.
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Indeed.
A completly restructed side towards a more defensive unit explains why his defensive stats have lessened simply because he has less to do.
I bet you Kantes partner at Leicester has seen his stats rise because he's now asked to do more, Modric will have fallen when they changed from a 2
Agreed.
The one unequivocal bright side of this and other uninspring transfer pursuits of this summer is the welcome absence of page after page of crap wanking jokes. In fact the entire "muppet" vocabulary seems to be out of favour. Would be intrigued to see stats on occurence of the word "muppet" (or, for that matter "***") this summer versus the last few.
edit: oh, i see "***" is now censored, so ignore that theory
edit: oh, i see "***" is now censored, so ignore that theory
a two meter long DM who wins 1 arial duel per game in the EPL. Yeah sure lets buy him.
maybe he does a fellaini and picks them down with his chest 
The thing is, even if his performance levels have dropped off due to not being happy or not having the same level of hunger, rather than fitness or some underlying issue, it doesn't say much about his character...well actually it does.
Exactly the sort of player we should be actively trying to avoid and weed out of the squad, not signing more of.
Exactly the sort of player we should be actively trying to avoid and weed out of the squad, not signing more of.
I rather keep Fellaini than 50m for fecking Matic.
3 years ago might be. Now? Hell fecking no.
3 years ago might be. Now? Hell fecking no.
a two meter long DM who wins 1 arial duel per game in the EPL. Yeah sure lets buy him.
Numbers, statistics and bunch of bollocks...god how I miss football when there was no internet.
"Fecking Matic" is twice the footballer than "Belgian Elbow Twister" is.
Would be hard to post on here without the internet.
Yeah sure, lets post our feelings instead to support our judgment.
a two meter long DM who wins 1 arial duel per game in the EPL. Yeah sure lets buy him.
Worth noting that Chelsea also had the lowest Aerial duels won in the whole league, there could be other factors which affect/influence his low Aerial duels score
I give up, leaving this cesspool of a thread, throw your bollocks statistics and keep on spouting bullshit. I will keep my opinion on players from actually watching them and not on numbers.
Cheers.
Cheers.
He's never been strong in the air, on set pieces or defensively. Even at his peak.
Don't fret we are keeping fellani as Well as signing him .
Fair enough, I just think pulling that one stat out is kinda pointless. For example Giroud wins 1.7 duels a game on average. Bailly wins 1.5, Evans 1.5, Alderweirald wins 1.4
If he's not good then it might be an issue but I wouldn't be too worried about it personally, especially don't see why it would be a deal breaker
I think a player with his physique and in his position should be very strong in winning duels in the air and on the ground. If you take a look at his numbers matches his performances over the past 3 years. He declined in form in the past 2 years, and it is very logical to make assumptions that he is on his way down rather than on his way up when Chelsea buys a new player in his position and he wants out.
Sure, you know we can also make our opinions on players from actually watching them, and watching Matic play makes me say that he is not a great player. Had one great season. That's it. I can call him one season player.
Cheers
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Some Chelsea fans here who watch him every week think he has been showing decline but, you probably just want to ignore that.
Matic was immense in 2 of Chelsea's recent title wins although he did have a really bad last season under Mourinho. I hope this is not why so many are being negative regarding the prospect of signing Matic as the same thing could have been applied to Mourinho. Having 1 bad season doesn't make you shit.
As I said to the other guy, Giroud wins 1.7 duels a game on average. Bailly wins 1.5, Evans 1.5, Alderweirald wins 1.4. One stat about aerial wins does not suggest anything about his quality or whether he'd be a good signing. It's just one stat taken out of context, if you want to start talking about his performances and 'decline' then that's something else. But it's very subjective and there's no definitive imo whether he is in decline or not.
Last season he wasn't played as a DM, he was played as a more advanced mid. Kante was the ball winning mid and Matic was tasked more with bringing the ball forward. I'm sure if you put any DM next to Kante they won't do as well because Kante would do a lot of their work and Kante is limited in his on the ball play so the other DM would need to make up for that. Obviously the season before that everyone played poorly so it's hard to make any judgements from that season
That was the point from the beginning, we can not prove anything on a football player performance over period of time because it is very subjective. That is why the objective stats part was brought up in the discussion. For a defensive midfielder they tend to win more aerial duels than any other player on the pitch especially in the EPL and it is a very good arguing point in the effectiveness of a DMF in central field. I took up this stats after reading opinions that he is good in the air, Chelsea fans in the forum disagree totally with that, and say he is weak in the air and in set pieces.
For sheer amusement, I cannot wait for a game where we play Matic and Felliani. The Match Day Thread will go nuclear with rage.
That bolded assumption is not true. I looked up the stats, there isn't a single midfielder in the top 20 aerial duels won in the league last season. The first midfielder is Fellaini who is 21st. After that there isn't another midfielder until Pogba who's 38th, then Kouyate who's 45th and Fer who's 53rd.
So in fact the stats show that midfielders win the least aerial duels out of anyone on the pitch and defensive mids even less so, so really it's a non issue.
Here's the link for the stats if you want to check for yourself - https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...erStatistics/England-Premier-League-2016-2017
Regardless of any of that, him being good in the air is only 1 small part of what he would need to bring, if you are going to use stats you need to analyse all the important ones - tackles, interceptions, successful passes, distance covered etc. One single stat won't tell you how good a player is overall
Matic, Fellaini, Pogba, Lukaku, Smalling, Bailly. Christ, that spine would be terrifying to play against.
In the year he won the title under Mourinho, Matic won 2.1 aerial duels per game. That's the role he'd play at United.
Conte is a different manager. You'd might as well use Herrera's stats under LvG to describe his current self.
They're not going to say he's amazing if he's linked with us. Chelsea fans I know really do rate Matic. Babayako isn't a huge upgrade either.
thank you for the link.
you can see in the following link
http://www.squawka.com/football-pla...5/2017#season#1#all-matches#headed#desc#total
that Fellaini is the third in the list in the percentage of winning the aerial duels with 74% (24th in total duels) only Vertonghen and VVD is above him. While you are right about everything else should be analyzed not only duels but as I said before I took up this to support my point about him being weak in the air and in set pieces.
I still persist that my opinion on him is built on watching him playing not only stats. I watch Chelsea a lot because of few family members who support them and not even them are happy with his style of play and his performance in the last couple of years.
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Well if Conte is using him differently why are we using his stats under Conte as evidence for why he would / would not fit at United? I'm only replying to the guy who said that his aerial duels won stat last season shows he isn't good enough for United
Sorry but aerial duels percentage is not a great metric. Someone could have 1 aerial duel and win it and they'd have 100%. Aerial duels won per game is a better metric and it shows that it's not that important for midfielders as they aren't winning as much as defenders or strikers.
Also of course Fellaini is going to have a really good aerial duels win percentage but what's the average for midfielders in total compared to other positions? Fellaini also isn't a defensive midfielder and most of his duels are won in the opposition third when he's pushing up and trying to get a goal or assist, that's something Matic would never be doing
This just isn't true. It's the exact opposite, he had to sit more in front of the defense while Kante was pressing, trying to win possession. His lack of mobility forced him to sit. Matic was and never has been in charge of bringing the ball forward. If that was true, Kante would've been the one taken off every time Conte wanted to score goals for Fabregas, not Matic.
Fair enough.
Just pointing out that we're buying the holding player from 2015 rather than the box-to-box player from 2017. People talking about his physical decline seem to miss the obvious point that he's never been reliant on pace. Players of his ilk don't suddenly become bad. It's usually more gradual unless there's a change in the way they're utilised. That's what's happening with Matic.
He's a 28 year-old cerebral player. He'll get his form back under the right manager and be top class for at least 4 or 5 years. By that time, Tuanzebe will be ready to take over (hopefully).
You know you support a Mourinho team when cafites spend page on page discussing heading stats for a potential new midfielder.
While this is true off the ball, Matic certainly did sit and cover Kante, it's not true on the ball. On the ball Matic didn't sit deep while Kante roamed wild, that doesn't make sense. When on the ball Matic was tasked with bringing the ball out and being the link between defence and attack, if he didn't do that the formation would be too flat and there would be too big a gap between defence and attack. Somebody has to be that link guy and because Matic was better at it than Kante he was the one who did it. Why do you think Conte bought Bakayoko? The exact type of box to box player who will do that role and is alot more suited to it that Matic.
If you watch YouTube videos of Matic you'll see a lot of clips of him bringing the ball out distributing it and playing forward passes
YouTube videos? Chelsea's my club, I have the 40-50 games we played last season as my evidence. You're right, theoretically the formation would be too flat, however that's not how we played because Luiz and Azpilicueta often began attacks. Azpilicueta literally drove the ball into midfield himself sometimes, and actually led the league in passes and forward passes (I believe). Luiz was pinging balls from the back. Kante played just as much of a roll "bringing the ball up" as Matic did. If you think he's a gifted attacking player (an assumption on my part) you're going to be sorely mistaken. I think Conte wanted Bakayoko so he has the ability to have both of his CMs "hunt" instead of last season where one did that and one was forced to sit. Also, hopefully to recreate his Chelsea version of Vidal-Pirlo-Marchisio with Kante, Fabregas, and Bakayoko. Doesn't have the same type of flash as the former though does it?
Ok fair enough, it's interesting how Chelsea fans have different views because I've read other Chelsea fans who's analysis of Matic is contradictory to yours, but anyway I won't argue because you clearly know more than me.
I think some of my point still remains though, Matic was playing a different system last year and it's possible it didn't suit him as well. If he plays under a similar system that he played under Mou at Chelsea I think it's possible he could improve. I just think it's a bit unfair to proclaim he's in decline without assessing the impact that the tactics/system he plays has on him.
And no I don't think he's great attacking, I just think he will have less attacking responsibilities at United so will do better in his defensive ones
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