The ASG itself is a joke. More like Soccer Aid vibes than anything serious but being selected for it is important for players as makes them eligible for bigger contracts.
NBA 2023-2024
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The ASG itself is a joke. More like Soccer Aid vibes than anything serious but being selected for it is important for players as makes them eligible for bigger contracts.
I'll definitely give you that he's a team player, because he's certainly played for plenty of teams.
In all seriousness, he's been disruptive in one way or another for almost every team he's played for. The way he exited Houston was a disgrace.
.....and he's still a cheat in my book.
Yes - hence the "median salary" part. It should have some value, at least.
But didn't the Warriors breach the salary cap in 16/17 as well?
They had the space available for Durant due to the unprecedented hike in the cap (and Curry, Klay on very team friendly contracts), but they still ended up quite a few million above the cap, If my research is correct, the cap was 94 mill, and they spent 101,5 mill.
Is this all due to mid level and veterans exceptions etc, and without they would've been within the cap?
Yeah you're allowed to fill your team out with minimum contracts and a mid-level even if they take you over the cap. They got Durant in when they had space and then went over with subsequent deals.
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba...gency-golden-state/1pjr53ldjp74d1lj455zv9tn8o
But the problem is that the rookie scale is tied to the salary cap - which changes year over year. So it'd be very difficult to assign a median value to a 2029 pick traded this year. You'd probably actually reduce the value of first round picks if they carried an associated salary value in trades.
I agree that relaxing the salary matching rules is a good idea (and to their credit the NBA has done just this in the most recent CBA) - but disagree that the way to do it is by putting dollar figures on future picks.
I'll definitely give you that he's a team player, because he's certainly played for plenty of teams.
In all seriousness, he's been disruptive in one way or another for almost every team he's played for. The way he exited Houston was a disgrace.
.....and he's still a cheat in my book.
I mean if he’s a cheat, then there are hundreds of cheats playing in the league
Was he disruptive on the Nets? He was like the least problematic player there. He asked out when he realised he had a completely unserious co-star and that project was going nowhere. And yeah it wasn’t an entirely amicable divorce with the Rockets but he spent 8 years in Houston with very little issues. Sometimes players have to force the issue to get the move they want. Not many Rockets fans hold that against him and he's still a beloved player in Houston. I don't think there was any problems to speak of back in his OKC days.
The most disruptive he’s been was in Philly and even there I think he was more right than wrong. If a player you liked had a dispute of that nature with the GM you would almost certainly side with the player, so ....
Harden's biggest problem has been he hasn't really invested in his own PR, so when negative stories about him have been put out there, they just fester and fester and it ultimately shapes the narrative around him. If he had Curry or Giannis' PR machines, I'm sure he'd be a more well liked player.
Unfortunately, when I gave you my reasons for disliking Harden you concentrated on the "team player" part of the reply which to be honest, was more of a throwaway line, an afterthought, than anything else (even though I still think it's true). I should have just stuck with the constant grabbing, flopping, drawing fouls etc... You can say there are plenty of other players in the league just like him but in his 8 full seasons with the Rockets, he led the league in free throws attempted 7 out of those 8 years. That is ridiculous. In his defense the referees should have been better but its still on him for playing the way he did. It was borderline cheating and I hate to see that type of play.I mean if he’s a cheat, then there are hundreds of cheats playing in the league
Was he disruptive on the Nets? He was like the least problematic player there. He asked out when he realised he had a completely unserious co-star and that project was going nowhere. And yeah it wasn’t an entirely amicable divorce with the Rockets but he spent 8 years in Houston with very little issues. Sometimes players have to force the issue to get the move they want. Not many Rockets fans hold that against him and he's still a beloved player in Houston. I don't think there was any problems to speak of back in his OKC days.
The most disruptive he’s been was in Philly and even there I think he was more right than wrong. If a player you liked had a dispute of that nature with the GM you would almost certainly side with the player, so ....
Harden's biggest problem has been he hasn't really invested in his own PR, so when negative stories about him have been put out there, they just fester and fester and it ultimately shapes the narrative around him. If he had Curry or Giannis' PR machines, I'm sure he'd be a more well liked player.
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I skipped the lottery for brevity but it’s certainly relevant.
He was the most dominant isocentric player in the (probably) most iso heavy team in the league for those 8 years. Yeah he pushed boundaries sometimes but he was absolutely the most fouled player in the league in those years. To call him an outright cheat is wild, unless you also think every single team in the league have 3-4 players who also dabble in cheating every night.
You can say you don’t like his brand of basketball, I think that’s fair enough. It’s not mine either, but if he was a cheat, then the league is full of cheats and that’s a hill I will die on.
I think if you think he wasn’t a team player, then you’ve unfortunately allowed yourself to be swayed by an unfair narrative. He’s been nothing but that everywhere he’s been.
Let's go with this. He pushed boundaries (your words). I call it borderline cheating. Semantics. There are a lot of players who do this. In those eight years he was the poster child for that type of play. He was the worst offender. IMLTHO it's bad for the game and I don't like to see it.
As to not being a team player? How about I bow to your superior knowledge since you follow the Rockets and give him a break.
...still don't like him though.
Yeah, I understand the problematic aspects. My point is that the no 1 pick can be tremendously valuable, and trading it should count at least a bit towards the salary matching aspect.
Take wemby this year - there’s no way possible for the spurs to try and flip him for a bunch of good players and try for a playoff run straight away even if they wanted to (obviously a stupid idea anyhow, but what if Wemby pulls a Kobe, or acts like Kyrie wanting out right from the start? Spurs would be stuck in a lose-lose situation).
They could swap him for someone like Robert Covington or Bobby fecking Portis after the draft, or simply picks before the draft? It’s somewhat counter intuitive in my mind. I realize this will never be perfect though, at least not with the soft cap and salary matching in general in play. and with how lucrative the luxury tax is for (most of) the owners, that aspect will not change for a very long time.
I don’t know what the changes to the CBA are regarding salary matching, but I believe almost any measure to give that a bit of slack is for the better.
Harden is not a cheat, he’s like Neymar or anyone else who acts like they’ve been shot with even the slightest contact imaginable in football. Not cheating, but using a “loophole” and bad officiating to their own benefit.
Most of us dislike football players playing like this, so naturally most people dislike Harden (and many, many others) for playing like this.
Most of us dislike football players playing like this, so naturally most people dislike Harden (and many, many others) for playing like this.
My understanding of the word "cheat" is to act unfairly to gain an advantage. What you've just described in the case of Neymar is somebody pretending to be fouled when they've not been fouled. That is exactly what the word "cheat" means - acting unfairly to gain an advantage
I disagree with that definition in a sports context. Cheating in sports is match fixing, using PEDs, whatever City are doing financially, etc.
Diving and the such is breaking rules defined in the rule book within an actual game, and if caught, will be penalized with a foul of some sort. You take a calculated risk within the context of the game, with risk of being penalized within the context of the game. In some regards the same as fouling someone - you act unfairly to gain an advantage (although it’s a lot more pathetic to flop/dive than to foul someone). If caught, you get penalized. Free kick (or worse) in football, free throws or worse in basketball.
I don’t believe flopping is cheating, just as I don’t believe fouling someone is cheating. Both are unfair actions to gain an advantage, it’s just that one of the actions is a lot more pathetic than the other.
Edit: After googling “cheating in sports”, all(?) of the results are about doping, bribing, banned equipment etc. Take a look at the wiki about cheating, for example. Not once is diving, fouling or similar mentioned, but stuff that deals with the very integrity of the game. The closest thing mentioned is deliberately injuring an opponent.
We can all agree that Harden is pathetic, though!
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This is just semantics. Match fixing, PEDs, etc... are just more egregious forms of cheating. Pretending to be fouled when you've not been fouled is cheating plain and simple. Harden is guilty of this as are many others. It's just that for me he's the poster child for this kind of behaviour. This form of cheating might not be frowned upon to the extent of your previous examples but it is cheating nonetheless.
Agree to disagree, then. I don’t think flopping is cheating, just as I don’t think fouling is cheating. Both are breaking the rules, none of them are cheating. One is pathetic and should be sanctioned more heavy and more often, the other one is (most often) not.
I don't think fouling is cheating either it's part of the game. it's pretending to be fouled when you've not been fouled I have a problem with. But overall, fair enough.
I have to adjust my take on this slightly. The deception and unsportsmanlike aspect makes it “more” cheating than fouling is. The deceptive part, especially. Very few fouls are deceptive, almost all flops are. But (almost) any action that is/can be sanctioned on the playing field within the rule book is rule breaking, not cheating, in my opinion.
But again - Harden (and Embiid!) are pathetic. Neymar is pathetic. Everyone’s pathetic!!
I think we can actually agree then. There is no way pretending to be fouled when you've not been fouled is sanctioned in any rule book.
Damn cheats!
Well, any trade involving Wemby would have to be colossal - if for god-knows what reason the Spurs were going to move on from him, they'd attach other contracts.
Or alternatively before the draft you can always trade picks for other picks - this is how the Celtics fleeced the Sixers since the Celtics traded the first pick in the Fultz / Lonzo / Tatum draft for the 3rd pick and a future 1st.
I mean sure. I’m saying the league is full of this. Calling him a cheat would be calling the entire league, including your own favourite players, cheats. If that’s what you’re saying, then cool.
I think we can actually agree then. There is no way pretending to be fouled when you've not been fouled is sanctioned in any rule book.
Damn cheats!
I mean, it very clearly is, but sure.. Damn rule breakers!
Edit: I believe english not being my first language is making me look foolish. I thought a sanction was a penalty of some sort - but something being sanctioned is allowing it?
I apologize. Damn you, english language! A word meaning both punishment and permission, come oooon.
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It can be be confusing when you think about it because it can mean both things depending on what the person is saying.
Chelsea were sanctioned by the UK government because of Abramovich, which was a decision that was sanctioned by the UK government. The first sanction is an official penalty imposed, the second sanction is the official approval of the first sanction
It can be be confusing when you think about it because it can mean both things depending on what the person is saying.
Chelsea were sanctioned by the UK government because of Abramovich, which was a decision that was sanctioned by the UK government. The first sanction is an official penalty imposed, the second sanction is the official approval of the first sanction
So if I say "flopping is sanctioned" - it means nothing until I provide further context?
Technically, yes but when it's worded that way, I'd assume you mean it's being given official approval.
Well, feck me then.
On another flopping/officiating note - the Raptors HC is legitimately fuming at the refs for giving the Lakers 36 free throws in the game against them.
“They had to win tonight? If that’s the case, just let us know, so we don’t show up for the game [...] It's outrageous. What happened tonight, this is completely B.S.," Rajakovic said. "This is shame. Shame for the referees. Shame for the league to allow this. Twenty-three free throws for them, and we get two free throws in the fourth quarter? Like, how to play the game? I understand respect for All-Stars and all that, but we have star players on our team as well. ”
A hefty fine incoming, for sure. He's getting sanctioned?
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Well, feck me then.
On another flopping/officiating note - the Raptors HC is legitimately fuming at the refs for giving the Lakers 36 free throws in the game against them.
“They had to win tonight? If that’s the case, just let us know, so we don’t show up for the game [...] It's outrageous. What happened tonight, this is completely B.S.," Rajakovic said. "This is shame. Shame for the referees. Shame for the league to allow this. Twenty-three free throws for them, and we get two free throws in the fourth quarter? Like, how to play the game? I understand respect for All-Stars and all that, but we have star players on our team as well. ”
A hefty fine incoming, for sure. He's getting sanctioned?
Yeah Darko is definitely going to be sanctioned
That was an almighty rant.
What that basically means is that flopping is against the rules and you will be penalized for it. It's essentially the same as simulation in football/soccer.
You try and cheat and there will be a consequence (free throws).
All players cheat to a greater or lesser degree. That is push the boundaries, try to gain an advantage when they don't deserve it. The problem I have with Harden is that he became a serial offender, it essentially became part of his game. I suppose what I'm saying is that I can forgive the occasional indiscretion but Harden took it to extremes. It became ridiculous the amount of free throws he would get each and every game. One individual leading the league in free throws 7 out of 8 years is crazy. As I've said previously, he became the poster child for such behaviour and IMLTHO it was bad for the game.
EDIT: The more I think about it, the reason I had such a problem with Harden is that the majority of players look to take advantage of a situation as it develops in front of them (selling contact etc...) Harden on the other hand tried to make sure such a situation happened and did it repeatedly. Both are cheating but IMLTHO one is far more egregious than the other.
Maybe this is a small thing to others, but it is important to me.
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I thought the Raptors game was bad. That was just embarrassing. I'm not even sure the Pelicans tried that hard to be honest. They had 8 players in double figures. Essentially everybody scored at will.
Celtics - Wolves fullfiled all expectations
Wemby with the 2nd fastest triple double in NBA history. Did it in 21 minutes.
16 points, 12 rebounds, 10 assists, 0 turnovers.
16 points, 12 rebounds, 10 assists, 0 turnovers.
Celtics - Wolves fullfiled all expectations
Yeah, that was a lot of fun!!
I've seen this guy get like 10 rebounds and 6 blocks in something like 4 minutes, so this doesn't surprise me even a little bit. When we played them a few weeks ago, the game had barely started, we were less than 2 minutes into the 1st quarter and he already 5 rebounds and 3 blocks. The fecking cnut is a cheat code
Surprised that Jaylen Brown is leading this - even though he's been very, very good this year.
Also surprised to see LeBron in second!!
Also surprised to see LeBron in second!!
Bloody hell, Sengun is top 6 in the west front court voting, above KAT, PG and Wemby. Love that for him. He’s having himself a genuine all star caliber season.
Watching this I couldn't help but dream about how scary he will be with a top end point guard.
I didn’t even notice Klay Thompson. How the feck did he sneak in there
But yeah it’s a popularity contest. I’m just hyped for Sengun and the fact that people are finally noticing his rise (or it’s probably just the Turks voting for him in their thousands).
It is and it isn't. For somebody like LeBron, Steph, Giannis and the like it is. For somebody like Sengun who doesn't have the "street cred" of such luminaries, it is on performance (minus the Turks). Bottom line, he's played really well this year and deserves it.I didn’t even notice Klay Thompson. How the feck did he sneak in there
But yeah it’s a popularity contest. I’m just hyped for Sengun and the fact that people are finally noticing his rise (or it’s probably just the Turks voting for him in their thousands).