NBA 2018-2019

RobinLFC said:
I might be in the minority here but I find it hard to really feel sorry for Durant. Of course, of course it's terrible to see such a great player, or any player at that, go down with a torn achilles, but he knew the risk he took by playing last night. And it's one he shouldn't have taken imo but each to their own I guess. Call him "the ultimate competitor" or whatever but he probably knew he wasn't really fit to play and choose to do so regardless, then you simply have to live with the consequences.

Will be interesting to see what he does once the season is done now, although I don't think the injury changes much in terms of where he'll be able to play or how much he'll get paid.
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I feel sorry for him. This is however true that he shouldn't have played last night, and I even posted a few minutes into the game that he clearly wasn't healthy - the way he moved, he sat down with a pack of ice on his foot when he went to the bench for 2 minutes. It was also inexcusable to play him for 12 out of 14 opening minutes.

I think he's going to stay now. Was convinced he would leave but after everything that happened I can't see it. He will get a max deal from Warriors.
 
RobinLFC said:
I might be in the minority here but I find it hard to really feel sorry for Durant. Of course, of course it's terrible to see such a great player, or any player at that, go down with a torn achilles, but he knew the risk he took by playing last night. And it's one he shouldn't have taken imo but each to their own I guess. Call him "the ultimate competitor" or whatever but he probably knew he wasn't really fit to play and choose to do so regardless, then you simply have to live with the consequences.

Will be interesting to see what he does once the season is done now, although I don't think the injury changes much in terms of where he'll be able to play or how much he'll get paid.
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Disagree. With the season/championship on the line, if I'm recovered I'm playing. And by getting medical OK to play it means recovered enough. Of course there is always a risk of reinjuring or another worse injury but nothing you can do about that.

Also these things are most definitely clear cut in terms of recovery. If he felt good and was actively able to do stuff.. Then he was probably really good to go.
 
mav_9me said:
Disagree. With the season/championship on the line, if I'm recovered I'm playing. And by getting medical OK to play it means recovered enough. Of course there is always a risk of reinjuring or another worse injury but nothing you can do about that.

Also these things are most definitely clear cut in terms of recovery. If he felt good and was actively able to do stuff.. Then he was probably really good to go.
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He clearly wasn't recovered. He could barely practice and he had to put ice on his foot immediately after going off court. He was clearly not healthy and I refuse to believe doctors would not inform him about the risk he was taking.

He wouldn't need ice if he were feeling good.
 
Sarni said:
I feel sorry for him. This is however true that he shouldn't have played last night, and I even posted a few minutes into the game that he clearly wasn't healthy - the way he moved, he sat down with a pack of ice on his foot when he went to the bench for 2 minutes. It was also inexcusable to play him for 12 out of 14 opening minutes.

I think he's going to stay now. Was convinced he would leave but after everything that happened I can't see it. He will get a max deal from Warriors.
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Might be pissed off at warriors and not stay (hopefully)
 
Sarni said:
It's not Warriors' to slip now, it's Raptors title to lose.
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Enigma_87 said:
Nah, Raptors still leads the series and they also have home court advantage in the decider. It's Raptors to lose. If KD was ok and returned properly I could see them winning 3 in a row without an issue.

They need another 20+ scorer and Green/Cousins have to big their game a lot in the last 2 games.
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I wouldn't say it's Raptors to lose now. It was before last game, which they absolutely had to win and losing that has put the ball and the momentum in Warriors' favour. To make matters worse, it is the last match at the Oracle and you can imagine the atmosphere to be electric, I can't see them dropping the chance now after getting such a lifeline.

As good as the Raptors are, the Warriors clearly had issues of their own so far this series be it fitness or performance level, even without KD if they play at their best they would be coming out as the winners. They will take Game 6 and go to Toronto with the momentum and being experienced in these situations as opposed to the Raps who would be mentally shot after not ceasing the series in Game 5, so I don't see Raps in the driving seat anymore.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Nah come on mate, he was the best player in the league before the injury and is always pity to see one of the greats go down like that. It's not like the first player that risked his health when the chips were down.

It was a decider and if the doctor told him he could play his mind probably was set.

The injury changes his position IMO. That is him for sure out of the beginning of the next season and whilst he's obviously a top name would be a risk for any team to take him for next season, especially missing most part of it.

Can see Dubs offering him the max though especially since they will feel part of what happened.
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Definitely agree about the bolded part of course! Of course it sucks to see and personally for him it will be gutting as well but it's just hard to really feel sorry for him because he knew beforehand what he was risking by playing imo. Was it worth it? Probably not, but I understand why he wanted to be out there last night obviously.

mav_9me said:
Disagree. With the season/championship on the line, if I'm recovered I'm playing. And by getting medical OK to play it means recovered enough. Of course there is always a risk of reinjuring or another worse injury but nothing you can do about that.

Also these things are most definitely clear cut in terms of recovery. If he felt good and was actively able to do stuff.. Then he was probably really good to go.
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I don't disagree per se but for the bolded part - as Sarni already mentioned, he clearly wasn't to me.
 
Moby said:
I wouldn't say it's Raptors to lose now. It was before last game, which they absolutely had to win and losing that has put the ball and the momentum in Warriors' favour. To make matters worse, it is the last match at the Oracle and you can imagine the atmosphere to be electric, I can't see them dropping the chance now after getting such a lifeline.

As good as the Raptors are, the Warriors clearly had issues of their own so far this series be it fitness or performance level, even without KD if they play at their best they would be coming out as the winners. They will take Game 6 and go to Toronto with the momentum and being experienced in these situations as opposed to the Raps who would be mentally shot after not ceasing the series in Game 5, so I don't see Raps in the driving seat anymore.
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I'll put it this way - the three games Toronto have won, they were clearly a better team by a good margin and it wasn't even close. All three games were basically done with 5-6 minutes to spare.

The two games they lost were hard fought wins for Warriors, in which Toronto had to shoot well below par to make it possible. Last night the difference in shooting between the two teams was appaling yet it still took a miracle for Warriors to win. On top of that Warriors looked extremely tired towards the end of that game and it looked like it was a last gasp run.

Looney will not return to the series either, meaning their choices at center will be Cousins and Bogut who both seem to be a bit of a liability. Cousins has had good moments but his defense has been awful and he isn't mobile enough.

Warriors have a chance but they will find it super difficult to pull off two wins while being clearly the inferior team in the series. It can happen but is very, very unlikely IMO.
 
On a different note, Griffin apparently wants to trade Davis before trade deadline so that he can make the picks with acquired assets. So we likely have at most 9 days, and possibly less than a week before AD has a new team.

They want an established player, a player with potential and two draft picks. My bet would now be on Lakers getting him for Ingram, Ball, no. 4 pick and a future pick or two. Maybe Hart or Kuzma added, at a push, but I doubt it - Kuzma would be needed without no. 4 pick but not with it.

Gentry is supposed to be keen on having Ball and Holiday in the backcourt but I actually reckon they would re-route Lonzo to Suns or Bulls and acquire another pick in this draft plus future assets.

Won't be surprised if it's a 3 or 4 team deal and Pelicans somehow get someone like Bradley Beal either.
 
Sarni said:
It's not Warriors' to slip now, it's Raptors title to lose.
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You don’t know Toronto sports teams. By default it’s always their opponents to lose.

I’m worried we’re going to regret not winning game 2. We should have really wrapped that and the series up by now. Now we’ve shifted momentum towards the warriors.
 
Eboue said:
momentum isnt real
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Let me punch in the face then, we'll see how real or not it is :D

Kaos said:
You don’t know Toronto sports teams. By default it’s always their opponents to lose.

I’m worried we’re going to regret not winning game 2. We should have really wrapped that and the series up by now. Now we’ve shifted momentum towards the warriors.
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Don't be a pussy now, Toronto will win the next one.
 
The more I think about it the more I’m resigned to losing the series to the warriors :(

I just don’t trust Kyle Lowry and last night reminded me why. Only thing to hope for is Kawhi beasts, the supporting cast do their bit, and Thompson and/or Curry not letting rip. KD being indefinitely out helps things a little but with the Raptors players being so streaky I’m note sure they’ll capitalise on it (I mean somehow our shooting got worse after KD went off).
 
Kaos said:
The more I think about it the more I’m resigned to losing the series to the warriors :(

I just don’t trust Kyle Lowry and last night reminded me why. Only thing to hope for is Kawhi beasts, the supporting cast do their bit, and Thompson and/or Curry not letting rip. KD being indefinitely out helps things a little but with the Raptors players being so streaky I’m note sure they’ll capitalise on it (I mean somehow our shooting got worse after KD went off).
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Na mate I already jinxed you by congratulating you last night, stop trying to reverse it that’s not cool
 
Kaos said:
The more I think about it the more I’m resigned to losing the series to the warriors :(

I just don’t trust Kyle Lowry and last night reminded me why. Only thing to hope for is Kawhi beasts, the supporting cast do their bit, and Thompson and/or Curry not letting rip. KD being indefinitely out helps things a little but with the Raptors players being so streaky I’m note sure they’ll capitalise on it (I mean somehow our shooting got worse after KD went off).
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Just play VanVleet instead of Lowry in crucial moments. Simple.
 
Rumors that Durant's injury is a complete rupture of Achilles... That would mean at least 8-9 months out, possibly full year.
 
Sarni said:
Rumors that Durant's injury is a complete rupture of Achilles... That would mean at least 8-9 months out, possibly full year.
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Isn't that the same injury as Bryant had in '13? He was out from mid-April until mid-December, so a full 8 months. Granted he was 5 years older than Durant by then.
 
Warriors went 20-42 from 3 & Raptors were 8-32 and still it was a 1 point win . Warriors have won 4 out of 20 quarters this series and lost both the home games so not sure how they can be favs at home even. If both teams play to their potential the Raptors win for sure
 
RobinLFC said:
Isn't that the same injury as Bryant had in '13? He was out from mid-April until mid-December, so a full 8 months. Granted he was 5 years older than Durant by then.
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Indeed it is. 8 months is a realistic timeline. Basically you are looking at having him back in time for 2019 playoffs.

Multiple people fecked up here, really. I get that championship was at stake and to be honest they would have probably not won that game even without those 12 minutes from him, but the risk was just too high. You don't go from not training for a month to playing 12 out of 14 minutes in high intensity Finals game. As I said, it made no sense to me that he needed ice at practice and needed an ice pack when he went to bench for those 2 minutes, and it seems like he's going to pay very high price for it.

Even if he insisted on playing Warriors medical staff should know better. In this day and age I do not believe they couldn't have possibly predicted high risk of injury like this occuring. You don't allow a player to play unless you are 100% sure the risk of re-injuring himself is negligible. It wasn't in this case and anyone with half brain could tell that based on circumstances (high intensity game, him not practicing for so long, the extent of his previous injury and nature of it). And to top that off they don't even allow him to rest during the game, he was on course to play 40+ minutes in his very first game after his return. That was just pure fecking ridiculous.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
Warriors went 20-42 from 3 & Raptors were 8-32 and still it was a 1 point win . Warriors have won 4 out of 20 quarters this series and lost both the home games so not sure how they can be favs at home even. If both teams play to their potential the Raptors win for sure
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It'll be a massive feck up by Raptors to lose the remaining two games. It can happen, but it would be very unlikely. It's not even KD's injury, it's the fact Warriors players look completely exhausted while Raptors look relatively fresh (aside from Kawhi who seems like he's carrying an injury). Even if it goes to game 7 there's no excuse for Raptors to lose a third game at home (well it would be a bit ridiculous for Warriors to lose all three Oracle Arena games as well).

Warriors will need to shoot close to 50% from three on 35+ attempts a game to have a chance here as they have no other means. They won't keep Raptors quiet on defense, and they won't get enough points otherwise to outscore them. To be fair it's not often that it happens in Warriors games, and usually the best plan to beat them is to keep the score and the pace low, but in this case Raptors really need to do what they did in Game 4 - increase the pace in the first half so much that Warriors will barely walk in the second half. And I think that's what they will try to do in game 6, and if it doesn't work they will try it again in game 7. They have plenty to throw at Warriors and their energy levels are much, much higher currently.

The main difference between OKC series and this is Raptors have two shots at it, while in that series Golden State were coming back home having tied the series in OKC with all the momentum and support of their crowd, and only needed to win that one. Even if they get lifted by Oracle Arena crowd for the last time to tie the series, Raptors absolutely have to take care of the job at home in G7.
 
As for KD’s return, he will never be the same player again if it’s ruptured Achilles. Nobody has ever been the same after ruptured Achilles. That’s insane and unbelievably sad, and also a league changing event.
 
I think people are putting a bit too much importance into this infamous momentum that the Dubs now supposedly have. Raptors are still favorites to win in my book, especially since they won two games at the Oracle not a week ago, have been the better team throughout the series and have what seems like a healthier team on top of that.
 
Sarni said:
Indeed it is. 8 months is a realistic timeline. Basically you are looking at having him back in time for 2019 playoffs.

Multiple people fecked up here, really. I get that championship was at stake and to be honest they would have probably not won that game even without those 12 minutes from him, but the risk was just too high. You don't go from not training for a month to playing 12 out of 14 minutes in high intensity Finals game. As I said, it made no sense to me that he needed ice at practice and needed an ice pack when he went to bench for those 2 minutes, and it seems like he's going to pay very high price for it.

Even if he insisted on playing Warriors medical staff should know better. In this day and age I do not believe they couldn't have possibly predicted high risk of injury like this occuring. You don't allow a player to play unless you are 100% sure the risk of re-injuring himself is negligible. It wasn't in this case and anyone with half brain could tell that based on circumstances (high intensity game, him not practicing for so long, the extent of his previous injury and nature of it). And to top that off they don't even allow him to rest during the game, he was on course to play 40+ minutes in his very first game after his return. That was just pure fecking ridiculous.
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Maybe they didn't know the severity of the consequences or didn't expect to turn that bad. Cazorla played years with pain in the Achilles before finally doing it.

It could've been final game of the season and all parties wanted KD to feature, the suspense was crazy especially with Dubs losing game 4.

Even if they took him off I bet you he'd be back for game 6 and could again do the same damage. A lot was at stake and considering the lay off after the finals probably they thought he could use the time to heal after the series.

To me probably the doctor, Kerr and KD himself underestimated the situation. As you said as soon as he needed ice pack when he went to the bench that should've been an enough giveaway not to come back again.

Sarni said:
As for KD’s return, he will never be the same player again if it’s ruptured Achilles. Nobody has ever been the same after ruptured Achilles. That’s insane and unbelievably sad, and also a league changing event.
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Hope you are not right on that one. We have seen athletes make full recovery - Becks did when he was older than KD. Problem is basketball players are much more dependent on the Achilles due to their vertical movement. By the look of the video it looks like it snaps off so that means 7-8 months before even practices on court...
 
Sarni said:
On a different note, Griffin apparently wants to trade Davis before trade deadline so that he can make the picks with acquired assets. So we likely have at most 9 days, and possibly less than a week before AD has a new team.

They want an established player, a player with potential and two draft picks. My bet would now be on Lakers getting him for Ingram, Ball, no. 4 pick and a future pick or two. Maybe Hart or Kuzma added, at a push, but I doubt it - Kuzma would be needed without no. 4 pick but not with it.

Gentry is supposed to be keen on having Ball and Holiday in the backcourt but I actually reckon they would re-route Lonzo to Suns or Bulls and acquire another pick in this draft plus future assets.

Won't be surprised if it's a 3 or 4 team deal and Pelicans somehow get someone like Bradley Beal either.
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Who's going to gamble that Ingram is going to be healthy with his blood clot issues?
 
Zlaatan said:
I think people are putting a bit too much importance into this infamous momentum that the Dubs now supposedly have. Raptors are still favorites to win in my book, especially since they won two games at the Oracle not a week ago, have been the better team throughout the series and have what seems like a healthier team on top of that.
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Agreed.

I think it's clear the Raptors have been the better team. Before the series started I was wondering where Raptors are going to get their offense from besides Kawhi. For the first couple of games I thought it was just them on a roll and it'll get back to mean. But all credit to them they have had the better offense, better flow, better rebounding helps. Warriors are going as Klay and Curry's shooting goes. As opposed to when the are at their best the ball moves and they get lay ups and open 3s.
 
mav_9me said:
Agreed.

I think it's clear the Raptors have been the better team. Before the series started I was wondering where Raptors are going to get their offense from besides Kawhi. For the first couple of games I thought it was just them on a roll and it'll get back to mean. But all credit to them they have had the better offense, better flow, better rebounding helps. Warriors are going as Klay and Curry's shooting goes. As opposed to when the are at their best the ball moves and they get lay ups and open 3s.
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That's only partially true ,it is more down to not having any shooting at all outside the splash brothers . With KD out the floor is compressed and the Raptors know that the rest of the team can't make jumpers & 3's so they are leaving them open while clogging the lane . Biggest problem for the warriors is in defence actually, Raptors have tremendous length and being unable to play Draymond at C & with Looney also not fully fit Warriors aren't switching well enough which means that Raptors are able to score a lot so cutting down transition offence and being behind in the series and never really ahead by a lot in games people like Iggy & Dray just don't feel confident enough to take open shots . If one of them nails a few threes like the Rockets game 6 then it's a completely different ball game
 
Kaos said:
The more I think about it the more I’m resigned to losing the series to the warriors :(

I just don’t trust Kyle Lowry and last night reminded me why. Only thing to hope for is Kawhi beasts, the supporting cast do their bit, and Thompson and/or Curry not letting rip. KD being indefinitely out helps things a little but with the Raptors players being so streaky I’m note sure they’ll capitalise on it (I mean somehow our shooting got worse after KD went off).
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Nah mate, they went back to bad habits last night. They need to cut back their three point attempts and nail down a couple of baskets instead of missing 20+ three point attempts. Same thing happened in game 2. Raps are the better team and they'll do it in Oaktown.
 
kouroux said:
And you could make a whole essay about " the concept of bricks in basketball" regarding that shot.
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No you can't, because draymond got a finger on it. It was a block, not a brick
 
Kaos said:
I still think Lowry would have missed it if he was open. He’s a perennial bottler in key playoff games.
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Of course. Everything he did in the final 3 minutes of that game was ridiculously bad: missed open three, dumb pass to nobody and then that shot.
 
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