Didn't Harden have more assists and only 2 less rebounds ? In the regular season plus his team won the series.
NBA 2016-17
- Thread starter ArmchairCritic
- Start date
There was a certain amount of poetic license there I will admit.
Overall, there are times when I think Russ deserves the MVP
There are other times I don't think he should get anywhere near it. My main gripe as I repeatedly keep saying is that if he wins, it should be because he really was the most valuable player as opposed to achieving some arbitrary statistical standard. The triple doubles IMLTHO really muddy the waters when it comes to making a decision on the award.
He averaged two less rebounds. I am not doing the math off the top of my head (because I am useless at it) but it equates to far, far more than two rebounds. This will probably lead to a discussion on chasing rebounds or whatever though and I am not going to bother
.In response to @charlton66 I think Russ' clutch stats are significantly underplayed by the media in regards to his MVP case. The triple-double got too much attention and his late-game performances not enough IMO.
His PER during clutch time is 52.
And overall as well he leads the league with a PER of 30.6.
As a reference, Kawhi, Harden, Durant and LeBron are on 27.
Westbrook has more assist % - 57 as opposed to Harden who is on 50.
I don't know when Jimmy Butler will get the consistency level any " star " should have. He plays one good game and then completely disappears from the second one. He was anonymous in game 5 against celtics when the team needed him most. He should be the one holding the team when a veteran like Rondo miss. Yet he didn't.
He's just a good player ATM but far far from being a superstar with such a level of inconsistency. That series is pretty much dead for me. I got a false hope of passing Celtics but with Rondo's injury, Butler inconsistency and idiotic coaching from Fred it can't be helped. The problem is with Fred and that FO sure remaining I don't have any hope in next season either.
On the other hand, after watching Celtics, tbh I don't imagine Cavs having any troubles in reaching the final of NBA. It will be Cavs-Warriors again anyway. That somewhat affects my point of watching the games. I'm enjoying the matches themselves and guessing who will pass but all these won't matter as it's pretty much obvious which two teams will be playing the final again. It's just enjoying the tense of games.
He's just a good player ATM but far far from being a superstar with such a level of inconsistency. That series is pretty much dead for me. I got a false hope of passing Celtics but with Rondo's injury, Butler inconsistency and idiotic coaching from Fred it can't be helped. The problem is with Fred and that FO sure remaining I don't have any hope in next season either.
On the other hand, after watching Celtics, tbh I don't imagine Cavs having any troubles in reaching the final of NBA. It will be Cavs-Warriors again anyway. That somewhat affects my point of watching the games. I'm enjoying the matches themselves and guessing who will pass but all these won't matter as it's pretty much obvious which two teams will be playing the final again. It's just enjoying the tense of games.
He was also bad in game 3, I remember he had like 2 points going into third quarter. I still like him as a player and delude myself into thinking that Chicago will make him available and we could tempt them with McCollum (I love CJ but Butler would fit this team a lot better with his defense). I think motivation might be the problem with Butler, he has seemed pissed off a bit too many times at Chicago and I've read article that he doesn't trust them at all after the contract debacle a couple of years ago.
I think it'd be wise for Chicago to try to restart now. It's not a team that will compete and they don't really have much young talent that could get so much better that it'd turn them into something more than 5th - 8th seed. Celtics were keen on taking Butler earlier, if they can get into conversation and land Nets 2017 pick and maybe Nets 2018 pick (or one of Crowder and Bradley), they could be better off long term than keeping Butler.
Agree with what you are saying on all your points.
For me Butler is in the same boat as Paul George. Very good players but still a tier below the true superstars of the league.
One thing this first round of the playoffs has shown to me is that there is a lot of above average sides but few genuinely excellent teams. Teams I even thought who would of posed a good threat such as the Celtics and Raptors just look pretty meh. There has been very few entertaining games in this first round because of it.
Dont know if the problem is motivation or not but his inconsistency kills me tbf. He's a very good player on his day but the problem is " to be on his day ". In other games he becomes non existent in the game. He scores zero point in 4th quarter in game 5 and attempted only on FT missing it as well. Very strange stats from the team superstar. What hurts you is watching him like this and you know in your heart he's not that bad. He can go with +30 pts in another game comfortably so why doesn't he show this consistently ? Especially when the team is in bad need of him ? That's strange. Maybe in the motivation as you think, but it's still a thing lacking in his way of play if he wants to become a superstar.
Yes I agree on the restart and the need of the rebuild. That was my opinion as the regular season. The rebuilding process have been delayed for a long time that the team will eventually pay for it. That has been the perfect time to rebuild as the team isn't supposed to compete and the league title will be between 2 teams anyway for 3 or 4 more years coming. Should use this period to rebuild the roster. I don't think I'll have a problem seeing the roster rebuilt with some good young talents and withstanding bad results but I'll have problem seeing a team with no hope in the future and also withstanding bad results.
I can't see this happening, though , with Hoiberg and the current FO remaining I can only see a next season similar to the last 2 ones (this one and the previous year). My hope in those managing the team is zero.
Very good comparison that.
Yes it seems to me just watching some good teams competing with each other on how far they can go before being defeated by Cavs\Warriors. Most teams who one has hope on them showing any competition for both teams don't look like much a threat. It's everything directing us to a repeated final again.
Thanks for this reply. Always nice to get the insight of someone who is following the team on a regular basis.
Also another reason why it has been perfect time to rebuild is that this draft class looks quality. If you had offloaded Butler to Celtics earlier in the year and missed out on playoffs, you would have two lottery picks that could turn into two very fine players. This is what Sacramento have done, they defended their pick by tanking later in the season and got an extra pick plus player from New Orleans and even though everyone ridiculed them at the time (including me), they could quite considerably end up with two of Monk, Fox, Smith, Markkanen, Isaac, Collins and Ntilikina plus they have Hield who still has room to improve. This is what Chicago could have done as well but they would likely get even better talent with Nets pick.
IMO what Pacers and Bulls should be doing is fighting for that Nets pick that Celtics own, especially if it ends up no. 1 or no. 2. I am not sure Celtics will add anything extra, certainly not if it's a conversation about George who is expiring and very unlikely to re-sign but maybe for Butler. Get Fultz, Ball or Jackson with that pick, get someone decent with yours and you will probably still end up with a crap record the next season (which will return a good pick, again). That's the way to restart now and it's a good time to consider it. This draft class looks better than the class of 2015 and that one has already returned three or four (not sure about Russell but certain about Towns, Turner and Booker) players who look like they will be franchise cornerstones.
Thanks. That has been exactly my opinion through the whole regular season. When the team was losing heavily at some point and dropped below the 8th rank I though they were starting to tank for the draft, to find them winning again and gaining a spot for the playoffs! It wasn't tanking as I though , it was just the team is bad. And now the team really got nothing from reaching the playoffs being most likely eliminated from Round 1.
The general thinking and sight of the FO of the team and the players they are getting looks completely opposite from what should have happened. Instead of trying to rebuild the team with young talents over the course of next years, they instead moved to bring an old player as Wade who won't give you for much time coming. These kind of players you only bring when you have a full team and you just try to enforce it, not a team with bloody average rooster who wants a massive rebuild ! And the problem with this sight of those managing the team I can expect another disappointing season with the same kind of players coming.
It's always painful when you know what your team needs and see it going in the opposite ( and wrong ) direction.
Yes, getting players like Wade and Rondo just cements your position as a decent league team but does not actually help your future. Like you said, for 2-3 more seasons the league will largely be between 2, maybe 3 teams but what happens afterwards is anyone's guess. It's a convenient time to put yourself through rebuild process because there is no pressure (or chance) to win for 25 teams out there. Of course there are some teams with relatively young line ups who can already prepare for that post-Warriors period but Bulls are not one of them.
From my perspective (Portland fan) we are fine for now. We won't compete but the core of that team is still young enough (Lillard is 27, CJ is 26, Nurkic is 22), we own three draft picks this year and players like Harkless and Vonleh could still improve. Shit thing is we don't and won't have cap space for three years running because of terrible contracts we handed out last Summer, we have almost $50M invested in Turner, Crabbe and Leonard.
Yeah totally agree on your opinion regarding Bulls.
And good luck for your team, as well.
Brilliant game, that. Wish we would have had a 7th game but Spurs just too mentally tough out there.
It's hard to believe that in a Spurs game, the maximum assist anyone had was 4.
Can't help when LMA is missing easy dunks.
Last season with Kawhi taking his game to another level and the addition of Aldridge they became a 1 on 1 team. And they have the worst guard play of any of the contenders by some distance.
Is Parker likely to retire after the end of this season? While its commendable that Spurs take care of their older players, I think players themselves should realize that its time to call it the end of the day.
Weird to say that after he had a fantastic game.
Giannis played 47 minutes?
Seeing players as great as Conley and Marc Gasol stuck on a team that has no hope of winning the title kinda sucks. Griezzlies are better off blowing it up and starting from scratch. And those two deserve to play on a contender
But really there are only two contenders. And they can't afford those two players.
Yes, while scoring much more efficiently without taking as many shots as him, Harden is the better player and deserves MVP more, no doubt in my mind.
Yeah but wouldn't it be more interesting to have them on the Spurs? I mean, it's not like there's more than 3 teams who have a chance to win the title right now. For everyone else, it's a matter of waiting it out and rebuilding. I'd rather have 6 superteams and the rest of the league either tanking or rebuilding than 1 superteam, 1 LeBron, 1 great team that probably doesn't really stand a chance, and nothing behind...
LeBron doesn't need a superteam, though. Good supporting cast is enough.
It's going to be Cavs vs Warriors in the Finals through 2020, right?
It would be funny if Lonzo flops. Stranger things have happened.
His father looks a total tool. Lonzo flopped in the final of college league and is still yet to play in the NBA, but his father acts like Lonzo is LeBron's equal.
His father looks a total tool. Lonzo flopped in the final of college league and is still yet to play in the NBA, but his father acts like Lonzo is LeBron's equal.
What would be funny about that?
He's an excellent talent, hopefully he'll go on to fulfil the promise.
Because the father sees his sons as his lotto ticket and glory as he just wasn't quite good enough to make it to the top level.
While that's mostly true (was in the round of 16) you also have to consider that his team, UCLA, were up against a very talented and athletic Kentucky team and Lonzo was playing with a team that he had to carry throughout the season. Without Lonzo, UCLA would have struggled to make it past the first game of the tournament.
LaVar is annoying, there's no doubt about it, but I'm actually very optimistic about Lonzo being a success in the NBA. In fact, I think he will be the best player that comes out of this draft for the first 5 years that this class is in the NBA. I say this as a fan who watched many of the top players in the upcoming draft throughout the college season. Fultz is great but had a high usage rate on a truly awful team. Hope my team (Suns) gets to draft Lonzo.
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I get your point but we have witnessed elite college players single-handily carry his side to the Elite Eight and Final Four many times. Carmelo, Steph, Wade, Napier, Bird, Kimble, Kimba, etc.
I get your point but we have witnessed elite college players single-handily carry his side to the Elite Eight and Final Four many times. Carmelo, Steph, Wade, Napier, Bird, Kimble, Kimba, etc.
And Lavar Ball is annoying but, Lonzo Ball is an unselfish, team first player.
Plenty also haven't though, Durant and Harden both come to mind... Ultimately my main point is that Lonzo's progress in the NCAA tournament or his play in one game in the tournament doesn't automatically increase his chances of flopping in the NBA.
Anyways if we are just talking about players in this year's draft, name one player who made more of an impact to his team's success than Lonzo this season. As a UofA fan myself, Lauri was excellent but he needed the help of the other freshmen and Trier to win games. Fultz had individual success at UW but with a team that was 9-22. Josh Jackson was great as a two-way wing player but Kansas won and lost games based on their experienced backcourt (Elite 8 for ex.). DeAaron Fox won't be the only Kentucky player drafted in the top 10. I think Lonzo has the best chance to reshape a team's fortunes right away, even if he comes with the baggage of his dad's shenanigans.
This is a disgraceful display by Chicago. This team has no heart or soul. I can't believe that this was once the team of Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, Tony Kukoc and others.
I am ashamed to be a Bulls fan tonight. Absolutely ashamed!
I am ashamed to be a Bulls fan tonight. Absolutely ashamed!
Lonzo ahead of Jackson? I'd have thought the latter is the obvious choice for you.
Lonzo and Fultz are generational talents. They should go #1 and #2
Clippers just being the Clippers. They will lose game 7 at home now
Heard John Wall was incredible in the wizards series clinching win
Clippers just being the Clippers. They will lose game 7 at home now
Heard John Wall was incredible in the wizards series clinching win