NBA 2016-17

On another subject. Just read that James Harden is "vowing to play through the pain" to the end of the season. If Harden wasn't involved in the MVP race, do you think he would have sat out the remainder of the season because of his wrist injury since the Rockets essentially have nothing to play for (won't reach the 2nd seed, and not going to lose the 3rd). If your answer is yes, do you think he is being selfish for continuing to play? @syrian_scholes - would love to hear what you think.
 
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I think he'll get the MVP even if he sits out all games until the end. And it's stupid from the Rockets not to rest their players.
 
I'd actually postulate (argue is too strong) that the current face of the NBA is Stephen Curry. Not saying LeBron is not up there too but when fans get to the stadium a couple of hours early just to watch him warm up you know that there is something special going on. Over the last couple of years, I think the NBA has certainly encouraged that line of thinking. As has been discussed on here over the last couple of days LeBron is just a unique physical specimen, Steph is more of your every man which the fans can more easily relate to. I believe the NBA has definitely done its best to push that angle.
Not disagreeing with anything you said, but I meant universally/in Europe. Everyone knows LeBron here, he's "that basketball player that's really fecking good". If you don't follow NBA, no one knows Curry and he'd need a trepeat now to change that. In the US, no idea, you could be right about that.
 
Not disagreeing with anything you said, but I meant universally/in Europe. Everyone knows LeBron here, he's "that basketball player that's really fecking good". If you don't follow NBA, no one knows Curry and he'd need a trepeat now to change that. In the US, no idea, you could be right about that.
I think there is a difference between the so called "face of the NBA" and who is known best by the "average man on the street." LeBron has been around longer and certainly has built a reputation over the long haul and is also probably known better by more people. What I mean by "face of the NBA" and what I thought you were alluding to is the person the NBA uses as the their number one source of marketability to sell their product (basketball). I think Steph appeals to more basketball fans (especially young people) than LeBron because he is much easier to relate to. Relatively speaking he is a little fella who can beat all the big ones. In the same way that people wanted to "be like Mike" they now want to "be like Steph." I believe the NBA is pushing this very strongly and it's obviously working since Steph stuff (jerseys) now outsells everything else worldwide.
 
Feck this crap! Nurkic is out for the rest of regular season, possibly out of Warriors series (if they happen) too. How can this happen?

Meyers Leonard at center it is. Laughable.
 
McGee was excellent last night. I think that he kept Warriors in the match during the second season. Never thought that I would say that.

10 wins in a row for Warriors.
 
T-Mac in to the HOF - hmmm.

I know no one is going to agree with me, but I would rather have Chris Webber in my HOF over Tracy McGrady anyday...and I remember very well what a beast T-Mac was in the prime of his career.

Chris Webber was such a unique player and despite everything his final career stats are pretty damn good

20.7 ppg
9.8 rb
4.2 ast
1.4 blk
1.4 stl
FG - 48%

Those are all excellent numbers.


*I've always had a soft spot for the idiot since THAT timeout and of course he spent some time in DC
 
Thanks heavens for basketball! Watching United these days is such a joyless experience. :boring::(
 
T-Mac in to the HOF - hmmm.

I know no one is going to agree with me, but I would rather have Chris Webber in my HOF over Tracy McGrady anyday...and I remember very well what a beast T-Mac was in the prime of his career.

Chris Webber was such a unique player and despite everything his final career stats are pretty damn good

20.7 ppg
9.8 rb
4.2 ast
1.4 blk
1.4 stl
FG - 48%

Those are all excellent numbers.


*I've always had a soft spot for the idiot since THAT timeout and of course he spent some time in DC
T-Mac deserves to be there. When he was on his peak, there weren't many better players than him. His 2002-2003 season is one of the best individual season since I watch basketball.

A shame that he was plagued from injuries. He was every bit as good as Bryant, but unfortunately he was one of the unluckiest players in the NBA.
 
I wonder who the next face of the NBA will be once LeBron retires. There are a couple of guys like Leonard, Davis & co who are still young and already household names but not on the same level as previous great players. Everyone in Europe knew who Jordan, Kobe and LeBron were, even if you aren't into basketball. That's not gonna be the case with Leonard or Davis imo.
Good chance this kid hasn't even started high school yet. Figure even with all the mileage he has, LeBron will play for at least another 5 more years.
 
Who is the bigger talent though, Lonzo or LaMelo ?
Tough to say since LaMelo is still only a sophomore in high school. Having said that, he's also scored 92 points in a game, played against older competition pretty much his whole life, and likely isn't finished growing yet.

As a Bruins fan, I've seen Lonzo 5 times in person now and while he had poor games against Arizona in the PAC-12 tourney and Kentucky in the Sweet 16, he's something special.
 
T-Mac deserves to be there. When he was on his peak, there weren't many better players than him. His 2002-2003 season is one of the best individual season since I watch basketball.

A shame that he was plagued from injuries. He was every bit as good as Bryant, but unfortunately he was one of the unluckiest players in the NBA.
Yep, T-Mac was a beast offensively (Kobe mentioned before that he was the toughest player he had to defend due to his length, height, and athleticism). For a couple of years, he and Kobe were 1A and 1B as to who was the best player in the league. Just one on a long list of potential greats whose careers were destroyed by injuries: Penny, Grant Hill, Yao, Rose, Roy...

Though the big knocks on T-Mac were that he never led a team past the first round of the playoffs (contrary to what he thought in the '03 playoffs against the Pistons) and he didn't play defense. As for the HOF, I don't think T-Mac should have been first ballot, but if he got in, C-Webb should have gotten in and vice versa. Both were borderline HOFer's, but based on past inductees, they should be in. I do wish the Basketball HOF was more stringent when inducting players as it currently feels a bit watered down.

I wonder who the next face of the NBA will be once LeBron retires. There are a couple of guys like Leonard, Davis & co who are still young and already household names but not on the same level as previous great players. Everyone in Europe knew who Jordan, Kobe and LeBron were, even if you aren't into basketball. That's not gonna be the case with Leonard or Davis imo.
I can't speak for those outside of the US, but I'd say Steph is 2nd to Lebron in being the "face of the NBA." Lebron's still the most recognized NBA player, but he's been around for more than a decade, and people are always eager to crown the next superstar. Since Steph and the Warriors took the league by storm, many of Golden State's games have been nationally televised, with him being seen as the face of the Warriors (one of the most explosive and unique teams in NBA history, who are at the forefront of the league's current three-point obsession). But this had to translate into wins, and it has, with the Warriors being one of the favorites to win the championship and having been to the finals the past two years matching up against the "face of the NBA" in Lebron, increasing Steph's exposure. He has an entertaining style of play that which the NBA has never seen before, and like charlton66 said, any kid can aspire to be like Steph, but not like Lebron. He's also seemingly a nice guy with a charming personality and is engaging to the fans and the media.

The other candidates: KD, Westbrook, Harden, Kawhi, et al. are all top players (some I could argue better than Curry) but as of this moment, for various reasons, I would consider Steph to be slightly ahead of them in terms of recognition. Apart from KD and Kawhi, none of the others have led their teams to the championship or even the finals. However, Kawhi and KD are fairly uncharismatic with both being relatively quiet and soft-spoken. KD's image also took a big hit when he went to Steph's team. Add to that, aside from Harden (and KD this year), the others all play for small-market teams with less media exposure. Westbrook and Harden have been in the spotlight due to their individual exploits, but their teams aren't seen as true contenders (maybe Harden, but Houston are acknowledged to be a level below GS, Spurs, and the Cavs). Until they do damage in the playoffs, it'd be hard to put them alongside Lebron, Steph, et al. These things can change very quickly though, and if one of them can lead their team deep into May or June with some memorable performances, their brands will only grow.
 
In the space of a little under 2 weeks Steph Curry has now outplayed Russell Westbrook, James Harden (twice), Kawhi Leonard and last night in one of his best performances of the season John Wall. He is getting no love for MVP this year because of one of the most overrated statistics in the NBA "the triple double." There is only one statistic that makes any difference and that is wins. The Dubs currently have 63 of them and when Steph leads the team in scoring they are 30-4. For somebody who is in slump he is currently averaging 47/40/91 and once again leads the NBA in 3 pointers having hit his 300th last night. As a comparison Russell Westbrook is 43/34/84, James Harden is at 44/34/85 and Kawhi Leonard is 48/36/88. All through the year we've heard "this is now Durant's team" or "Steph is overrated" when the truth of the matter is that he's coasted for the majority of the season and then stepped up when it mattered. Last but not least, in terms of making his teammates better, he leads the entire NBA in player (+/-) and it's not even close. You might almost say MVP, but no its all about who's got the most "triple doubles" don't you know. That's all that matters.
 
OKC wouldn't even be in the playoff discussion if it wasn't for Westbrook, that's what valuable means. He's come through in the clutch time and time again for them this season as well. Curry is having a good season and he's on a great streak at the moment but the Warriors would still be there or thereabouts without him. For me, he gave up any claim to most valuable player when Durant signed because you'd need to be pretty damn special the whole year with the Warriors if you want to be the most valuable player in the entire league.

I agree with you that people focus too much on the triple double stats but Curry shouldn't be MVP this year imo.
 
OKC wouldn't even be in the playoff discussion if it wasn't for Westbrook, that's what valuable means. He's come through in the clutch time and time again for them this season as well. Curry is having a good season and he's on a great streak at the moment but the Warriors would still be there or thereabouts without him. For me, he gave up any claim to most valuable player when Durant signed because you'd need to be pretty damn special the whole year with the Warriors if you want to be the most valuable player in the entire league.

I agree with you that people focus too much on the triple double stats but Curry shouldn't be MVP this year imo.
No he shouldn't. I was being a trifle facetious with that. The point really was though that its become fairly clear now that he was coasting for most of the season with a few ups and downs here and there. LeBron has been doing that for years and people recognize it. When Curry does it, you immediately hear "he's overrated", "always said he wasn't any good", "last two years were a fluke" etc... When all is said and done, he's the most exciting, electrifying player in the NBA and will go down not only as the best shooter the league has ever seen but an all time great to boot.

Check out the highlights from last night. One of his two point baskets in particular was just amazing and what he did to Marcin Gortat was just cruel.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/04/02...in-move-marcin-gortat-warriors-wizards-video/
http://www.espn.com/blog/golden-sta...ach-11th-straight-win-behind-currys-42-points
 
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No he shouldn't. I was being a trifle facetious with that. The point really was though that its become fairly clear now that he was coasting for most of the season with a few ups and downs here and there. LeBron has been doing that for years and people recognize it. When Curry does it, you immediately hear "he's overrated", "always said he wasn't any good", "last two years were a fluke" etc... When all is said and done, he's the most exciting, electrifying player in the NBA and will go down not only as the best shooter the league has ever seen but an all time great to boot.

Check out the highlights from last night. What he did to Marcin Gortat was just cruel.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/04/02...in-move-marcin-gortat-warriors-wizards-video/
http://www.espn.com/blog/golden-sta...ach-11th-straight-win-behind-currys-42-points

People actually say this? I've never heard anyone say anything like that at all. I feel most people recognize his ability and rate him as a top three player, even this season.

Edit: Curry has 5 of the 10 best 3pts seasons ever, with 16/17 being the 2nd best overall. If he can keep it up, he'll have a 3pt record as hard to beat as Stocktons assist record. Absoluteley incredible.
 
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In the space of a little under 2 weeks Steph Curry has now outplayed Russell Westbrook, James Harden (twice), Kawhi Leonard and last night in one of his best performances of the season John Wall. He is getting no love for MVP this year because of one of the most overrated statistics in the NBA "the triple double." There is only one statistic that makes any difference and that is wins. The Dubs currently have 63 of them and when Steph leads the team in scoring they are 30-4. For somebody who is in slump he is currently averaging 47/40/91 and once again leads the NBA in 3 pointers having hit his 300th last night. As a comparison Russell Westbrook is 43/34/84, James Harden is at 44/34/85 and Kawhi Leonard is 48/36/88. All through the year we've heard "this is now Durant's team" or "Steph is overrated" when the truth of the matter is that he's coasted for the majority of the season and then stepped up when it mattered. Last but not least, in terms of making his teammates better, he leads the entire NBA in player (+/-) and it's not even close. You might almost say MVP, but no its all about who's got the most "triple doubles" don't you know. That's all that matters.

He didn't get triple doubles last year either and he got MVP, unanimously. It's not because the lack of triple doubles but because he was average/below his normal level in many of the first 50-60 games of season.
 
People actually say this? I've never heard anyone say anything like that at all. I feel most people recognize his ability and rate him as a top three player, even this season.
Cowherd
http://www.foxsports.com/nba/gallery/colin-cowherd-steph-curry-overrated-031417
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/new...-cowherd-overrated/1nblrhlyv9p991ghhz8wj0pnln
Wright
http://www.papercitymag.com/culture...ock-night-wright-fool-annoys-houston-rockets/
Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayliss have both put the boot in as well at points in the season.
 
He didn't get triple doubles last year either and he got MVP, unanimously. It's not because the lack of triple doubles but because he was average/below his normal level in many of the first 50-60 games of season.
As I replied to @RobinLFC, he doesn't really deserve the MVP this year - was just playing devil's advocate really. What he also doesn't deserve is the amount of unjustified criticism he keeps getting. When LeBron coasts people recognize it, when Steph coasts he's lost it all of a sudden.
 
Curry's never winning mvp again as long as he's playing with durant.
 
Curry's never winning mvp again as long as he's playing with durant.
As I've said previously, I actually think Russ should win it this year.
I have occasionally said some unkind things about Russ, but after tonight just give him the MVP. He's got an awful lot of faults and I don't think he will ever win a Championship playing this way, but this season there have been times where he has just been bloody brilliant. MVP! MVP! MVP!
It's really between him and James Harden and to be honest I really find it hard to stomach the snidey way Harden plays basketball. This drawing fouls crap is for the birds. It truly is a skill but to me it's like leaving your trailing leg behind in football then diving. I read a piece a couple of days ago that said he has been fouled more times taking 3 pointers than any other team in the league. If he wins it good on him but I'd vote for Russ.
 
Harden has quietly padded his stats way more than Westbrook in recent months. His constant 3-point attempts are hilarious, he's shot something like 3 out of last 35 but he keeps trying.
 
Harden has it in the bag already, although I too would've preferred Westbrook. Some journo did a mock poll among his journo friends (many of which actual voters for the MVP) and Harden was leading massively. That was a few weeks ago.
 
Harden has quietly padded his stats way more than Westbrook in recent months. His constant 3-point attempts are hilarious, he's shot something like 3 out of last 35 but he keeps trying.
Their shooting stats are very similar, with Harden's being slightly better.
Harden has it in the bag already, although I too would've preferred Westbrook. Some journo did a mock poll among his journo friends (many of which actual voters for the MVP) and Harden was leading massively. That was a few weeks ago.
I think that Westbrook actually averaging a triple double per season in addition to breaking the records of triple doubles, might have changed it. Westbrook has also been ridiculously good in the last 2-3 weeks.

Saying that, I still think that the true MVP is Kawhi Leonard. He can actually defend, doesn't give too much turnovers and doesn't pad his stats.
 
Their shooting stats are very similar, with Harden's being slightly better.

I think that Westbrook actually averaging a triple double per season in addition to breaking the records of triple doubles, might have changed it. Westbrook has also been ridiculously good in the last 2-3 weeks.

Saying that, I still think that the true MVP is Kawhi Leonard. He can actually defend, doesn't give too much turnovers and doesn't pad his stats.
I only meant his last few games in terms of 3-point shooting

1-9 against Warriors, 2-13 against Portland, 1-9 against Warriors and 2-8 against Thunder. Only 4 games but he shot 6 out 39 and kept trying.
 
On another subject. Just read that James Harden is "vowing to play through the pain" to the end of the season. If Harden wasn't involved in the MVP race, do you think he would have sat out the remainder of the season because of his wrist injury since the Rockets essentially have nothing to play for (won't reach the 2nd seed, and not going to lose the 3rd). If your answer is yes, do you think he is being selfish for continuing to play? @syrian_scholes - would love to hear what you think.
What!! Didn't know that was so happy he rested vs Phoenix oh ffs! :(
 
College basketball fans: Final Four finale between Gonzaga and North Carolina is about to begin.

Embarrassing that UNC was even allowed to play this season. They've been institutionally cheating for decades. In my mind they've never won the NCAA fairly.
 
Felt bad for the Zags. Basically lost because their big men were all on 4 fouls each with more than 10mins left in the game and consequently were left inept. Refs were absolutely horrible and dictated most of the pace in the game.

Wish the refs would just let them play.
 
I only meant his last few games in terms of 3-point shooting

1-9 against Warriors, 2-13 against Portland, 1-9 against Warriors and 2-8 against Thunder. Only 4 games but he shot 6 out 39 and kept trying.
His wrist was injured, he was shooting really well before but yes he can be streaky, anyway he doesn't take as many shots as Westbrook, I think most matches he is at around 17-18 shots.
 
Funnily, out of all Gonzaga players who played in the final last night only Zach Collins is projected to be taken in this draft. This is also last chance for Przemek Karnowski to get drafted but I reckon he will go undrafted and then get picked up by someone as third choice center on a minimum contract. He's a massive old school center so should find use in NBA in limited minutes.
 
BTW we win that game against Minnesota last night if Nurkic is there, comfortably. It was all about Towns who had a field day against Meyers and then Noah and Aminu. We don't have a center that can play basketball now and it hurts us. It won't be the case next season if we use our picks wisely - a lot of good bigs within our range.

Future looks good though. We are 38-39 and Denver are 36-40, IMO it will go like that:

Denver:
@ New Orleans W 37-40
@ Houston L 37-41
v New Orleans W 38-41
v Oklahoma City W 39-41
@ Dallas W 40-41
@ Oklahoma City L 40-42

Portland:
@ Utah L 38-40
v Minnesota W 39-40
v Utah W 40-40
v San Antonio W 41-40
v New Orleans W 42-40

Even if we lose to San Antonio, I honestly expect us to win the rest and it will give us 41-41. Denver could probably win one of Houston/Oklahoma City games and it would put them on the same record but we keep the tie breaker.
 
BTW we win that game against Minnesota last night if Nurkic is there, comfortably. It was all about Towns who had a field day against Meyers and then Noah and Aminu. We don't have a center that can play basketball now and it hurts us. It won't be the case next season if we use our picks wisely - a lot of good bigs within our range.

Future looks good though. We are 38-39 and Denver are 36-40, IMO it will go like that:

Denver:
@ New Orleans W 37-40
@ Houston L 37-41
v New Orleans W 38-41
v Oklahoma City W 39-41
@ Dallas W 40-41
@ Oklahoma City L 40-42

Portland:
@ Utah L 38-40
v Minnesota W 39-40
v Utah W 40-40
v San Antonio W 41-40
v New Orleans W 42-40

Even if we lose to San Antonio, I honestly expect us to win the rest and it will give us 41-41. Denver could probably win one of Houston/Oklahoma City games and it would put them on the same record but we keep the tie breaker.
The two Utah games could be a test since they are still playing for home court in the first round. With Nurkic I think you get at least a split, without, you could easily lose both. You are playing the Spurs at the right time though since they should have nothing to play for by the time the game comes around, same with the Pelicans. Minnesota should also be a win. I see no worse than 41-41 unless you guys do something dumb.

As for the Nuggets, since you have the tiebreaker they would have to win out. Can't see that to be honest.
 
The two Utah games could be a test since they are still playing for home court in the first round. With Nurkic I think you get at least a split, without, you could easily lose both. You are playing the Spurs at the right time though since they should have nothing to play for by the time the game comes around, same with the Pelicans. Minnesota should also be a win. I see no worse than 41-41 unless you guys do something dumb.

As for the Nuggets, since you have the tiebreaker they would have to win out. Can't see that to be honest.

We won't get Nurkic back for either Utah game. He's out until playoffs at the very least.