NBA 2016-17

[Redondo_Pirri]

Lebron to me is basically a genetic freak with a decent skill set and a mental midget.

You put Kobe's or Jordan's brain in LeBron's body and they would of won far more then James has to date and probably a lot more than they did themselves. That's the part I can't get past for James, he has no killer instinct which makes it hard for me to put him in the true great category despite all that he has accomplished.

Jordan didn't have to go to no super team to make a name for himself and get runs on the board, Jordan didn't have to get every great player in the league to win it all. Lebron went to Miami because he couldn't get the job done on his own, then came back to Cleveland and now has the deepest team with the biggest salary because again can't get it done any other way. All the while playing in the worst iteration of the Eastern conference this entire time, meaning he can coast the season and still get 1/2 seed, sweep the playoffs and come in fresh for the finals.

I don't get how people can rate LeBron at all as an all time great. Just don't see it. Top 50 player for sure but there are so many I would put ahead of him.

 

[ZDwyr]

Westbrook again in the clutch. Best clutch performer in the league this season. He has really improved that and his 3-point shooting. Impressive.

Now waiting for the obligatory Harden response game. Probably a 50-15-15 or something. Absolutely loving the duel of these two.

 

[charlton66]

Westbrook again in the clutch. Best clutch performer in the league this season. He has really improved that and his 3-point shooting. Impressive.

Now waiting for the obligatory Harden response game. Probably a 50-15-15 or something. Absolutely loving the duel of these two.

I have occasionally said some unkind things about Russ, but after tonight just give him the MVP. He's got an awful lot of faults and I don't think he will ever win a Championship playing this way, but this season there have been times where he has just been bloody brilliant. MVP! MVP! MVP!

 

[puNANI]

Lebron to me is basically a genetic freak with a decent skill set and a mental midget.

You put Kobe's or Jordan's brain in LeBron's body and they would of won far more then James has to date and probably a lot more than they did themselves. That's the part I can't get past for James, he has no killer instinct which makes it hard for me to put him in the true great category despite all that he has accomplished.

Jordan didn't have to go to no super team to make a name for himself and get runs on the board, Jordan didn't have to get every great player in the league to win it all. Lebron went to Miami because he couldn't get the job done on his own, then came back to Cleveland and now has the deepest team with the biggest salary because again can't get it done any other way. All the while playing in the worst iteration of the Eastern conference this entire time, meaning he can coast the season and still get 1/2 seed, sweep the playoffs and come in fresh for the finals.

I don't get how people can rate LeBron at all as an all time great. Just don't see it. Top 50 player for sure but there are so many I would put ahead of him.

I'm no Lebron fan by any means but it's too hard to not see him as anything else but a Top 10 player of all time. Yes he moved to Miami to get a couple of rings which was a move I didn't respect, but last years championship against a 73-9 Warriors consolidated his greatness. He was great in the loss against them two seasons ago without Kyrie & Love as well.

As far as Top 10's mine is

1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Kobe
6. Bird
7. Duncan
8. Hakeem
9. Lebron
10. Russell

There's a big cluster between 5-9 that can be rearranged in any order and I wouldn't complain about it. I believe LBJ is a better player than Bird & Duncan but he doesn't have the legacy to match yet.

Honorable mentions to Wilt and Oscar Robertson

 

[charlton66]

What a performance. Woohoo!

 

[adexkola]

Klay is annoying. Did the same to us a few nights ago.

 

[fanutd]

Hopefully keeps on doing it over and over again.

 

[Redondo_Pirri]

I'm no Lebron fan by any means but it's too hard to not see him as anything else but a Top 10 player of all time. Yes he moved to Miami to get a couple of rings which was a move I didn't respect, but last years championship against a 73-9 Warriors consolidated his greatness. He was great in the loss against them two seasons ago without Kyrie & Love as well.

As far as Top 10's mine is

1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Kobe
6. Bird
7. Duncan
8. Hakeem
9. Lebron
10. Russell

There's a big cluster between 5-9 that can be rearranged in any order and I wouldn't complain about it. I believe LBJ is a better player than Bird & Duncan but he doesn't have the legacy to match yet.

Honorable mentions to Wilt and Oscar Robertson

Well if we compare him to small forwards I would put him in the top 5, honestly, but overall he may squeeze in the top 20 depending how his career ends, maybe higher.

In terms of small forwards it is hard to go past players like Bird, Havlicek and Worthy, not just because of the teams they played on and what they achieved but because of the level of competition they were facing when they did it.

 

[Moby]

Lebron to me is basically a genetic freak with a decent skill set and a mental midget.

You put Kobe's or Jordan's brain in LeBron's body and they would of won far more then James has to date and probably a lot more than they did themselves. That's the part I can't get past for James, he has no killer instinct which makes it hard for me to put him in the true great category despite all that he has accomplished.

Jordan didn't have to go to no super team to make a name for himself and get runs on the board, Jordan didn't have to get every great player in the league to win it all. Lebron went to Miami because he couldn't get the job done on his own, then came back to Cleveland and now has the deepest team with the biggest salary because again can't get it done any other way. All the while playing in the worst iteration of the Eastern conference this entire time, meaning he can coast the season and still get 1/2 seed, sweep the playoffs and come in fresh for the finals.

I don't get how people can rate LeBron at all as an all time great. Just don't see it. Top 50 player for sure but there are so many I would put ahead of him.

Your wumming in the cricket threads was bad enough, don't spread it everywhere ffs.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Lebron to me is basically a genetic freak with a decent skill set and a mental midget.

You put Kobe's or Jordan's brain in LeBron's body and they would of won far more then James has to date and probably a lot more than they did themselves. That's the part I can't get past for James, he has no killer instinct which makes it hard for me to put him in the true great category despite all that he has accomplished.

Jordan didn't have to go to no super team to make a name for himself and get runs on the board, Jordan didn't have to get every great player in the league to win it all. Lebron went to Miami because he couldn't get the job done on his own, then came back to Cleveland and now has the deepest team with the biggest salary because again can't get it done any other way. All the while playing in the worst iteration of the Eastern conference this entire time, meaning he can coast the season and still get 1/2 seed, sweep the playoffs and come in fresh for the finals.

I don't get how people can rate LeBron at all as an all time great. Just don't see it. Top 50 player for sure but there are so many I would put ahead of him.

This might be the most ridiculous post I have ever seen on this entire site.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

What a performance by the Warriors, down 22 on the road against your biggest conference rivals on the second day of a back to back and you pull it out with a performance like that. Incredible how well the players have played in the last 9 games without Durant. The team is so well coached and it is so good to see the big boys working so hard. There isn't a PG in this league I would swap Steph Curry for

 

[ZDwyr]

Really hope the Cavs can get themselves together. The Spurs just don't have the weapons to beat the Warriors - especially four times in a series, I think. If the Cavs keep struggling Warriors will probably cruise to the title.

 

[RobinLFC]

Warriors
Westbrook

 

[Revan]

Lebron to me is basically a genetic freak with a decent skill set and a mental midget.

You put Kobe's or Jordan's brain in LeBron's body and they would of won far more then James has to date and probably a lot more than they did themselves. That's the part I can't get past for James, he has no killer instinct which makes it hard for me to put him in the true great category despite all that he has accomplished.

Jordan didn't have to go to no super team to make a name for himself and get runs on the board, Jordan didn't have to get every great player in the league to win it all. Lebron went to Miami because he couldn't get the job done on his own, then came back to Cleveland and now has the deepest team with the biggest salary because again can't get it done any other way. All the while playing in the worst iteration of the Eastern conference this entire time, meaning he can coast the season and still get 1/2 seed, sweep the playoffs and come in fresh for the finals.

I don't get how people can rate LeBron at all as an all time great. Just don't see it. Top 50 player for sure but there are so many I would put ahead of him.

I don't like James at all, but this is the worst post I have ever seen in this thread. And that is being generous.

 

[Revan]

Anyway, one of the weirdest (and best) matches of this season. Spurs leading 15-0 after a few minutes, and leading over 20 points in the first quarter, only to lose that advantage. Curry shooting three 3-pointers in a row in the third quarter put back Warriors in the match, and Klay is definitely annoying if you are playing against him. He can shoot from every position and it is almost impossible stopping him from shooting. A comfortable victory for Dubs in the end, which might be big for their confidence.

Massive respect to Iguodala. He did a great defensive job on Kawhi Leonard.

I still don't see the point of Zaza Pachulia. Why he is a NBA player? Why he is at Dubs in the first place? Why he starts? He's utter shit, one of the worst NBA players and cannot do anything right.

The first spot in West is done now. Spurs won't have it that easy against Grizzles, and can't wait to see Westbrrok vs Harden. In the East, both leading teams losing means that Cavaliers hold their first place, and the game against Celtics will be big. Whoever wins that match will get the first spot, if Celtics win it, then in case of equal points, they get the first spot because of better division record. If Cavalieres win it, then in case of equal points, they get the first place cause of 3-1 head to head advantage. So, it is gonna be a massive game, and I would favor Celtics to win it (with Cavaliers still favorites in Eastern playoff).

Cannot wait to see Durant back. If he goes in some good form, and the other big 4 continue playing like this, we can expect Warriors to win every playoff match. They look unbeatable right now, and unlike last year, they aren't fatigued as much. There was no record this time, but I fancy them to be stronger in playoff. It is always better to have that inevitable bad patch in the season, rather than in playoff.

 

[Eboue]

Lebron to me is basically a genetic freak with a decent skill set and a mental midget.

You put Kobe's or Jordan's brain in LeBron's body and they would of won far more then James has to date and probably a lot more than they did themselves. That's the part I can't get past for James, he has no killer instinct which makes it hard for me to put him in the true great category despite all that he has accomplished.

Jordan didn't have to go to no super team to make a name for himself and get runs on the board, Jordan didn't have to get every great player in the league to win it all. Lebron went to Miami because he couldn't get the job done on his own, then came back to Cleveland and now has the deepest team with the biggest salary because again can't get it done any other way. All the while playing in the worst iteration of the Eastern conference this entire time, meaning he can coast the season and still get 1/2 seed, sweep the playoffs and come in fresh for the finals.

I don't get how people can rate LeBron at all as an all time great. Just don't see it. Top 50 player for sure but there are so many I would put ahead of him.

Absurd post

 

[Sarni]

Lebron to me is basically a genetic freak with a decent skill set and a mental midget.

You put Kobe's or Jordan's brain in LeBron's body and they would of won far more then James has to date and probably a lot more than they did themselves. That's the part I can't get past for James, he has no killer instinct which makes it hard for me to put him in the true great category despite all that he has accomplished.

Jordan didn't have to go to no super team to make a name for himself and get runs on the board, Jordan didn't have to get every great player in the league to win it all. Lebron went to Miami because he couldn't get the job done on his own, then came back to Cleveland and now has the deepest team with the biggest salary because again can't get it done any other way. All the while playing in the worst iteration of the Eastern conference this entire time, meaning he can coast the season and still get 1/2 seed, sweep the playoffs and come in fresh for the finals.

I don't get how people can rate LeBron at all as an all time great. Just don't see it. Top 50 player for sure but there are so many I would put ahead of him.

That is a horrendous post. Top 50

 

[charlton66]

Cannot wait to see Durant back. If he goes in some good form, and the other big 4 continue playing like this, we can expect Warriors to win every playoff match. They look unbeatable right now, and unlike last year, they aren't fatigued as much. There was no record this time, but I fancy them to be stronger in playoff. It is always better to have that inevitable bad patch in the season, rather than in playoff.

IMLTHO Durant's reintegration into the team is currently the biggest threat the Warriors have in their pursuit of a title (This obviously will change if the Cavs hit their stride again). There is no doubt KD is a Hall of Famer and is one of the top 3-4 players in the League but it took the Dubs a little while to integrate him the first time and then when he got injured it took 5-6 games to get used to playing without him. Will his comeback be a smooth one? I don't know. The playoffs is not the place for figuring things out again.

 

[Revan]

IMLTHO Durant's reintegration into the team is currently the biggest threat the Warriors look to have in their pursuit of a title (This obviously will change if the Cavs hit their stride again). There is no doubt KD is a Hall of Famer and is one of the top 3-4 players in the League but it took the Dubs a little while to integrate him the first time and then when he got injured it took 5-6 games to get used to playing without him. Will his comeback be a smooth one? I don't know. The playoffs is not the place for figuring things out again.

That's fine, but I think that they need him in the playoffs. Curry has tanked in the last two finals, and Klay hasn't been much better. A fully fit Durant would increase their chances of winning the title a lot.

I think the problem in the beginning was that Dubs tried to involve Durant too much in the match. After that Grizzles match, things changed, with Durant saying to Curry that Durant will find his way and Curry to be like the leader of the team. And that worked well, with Curry almost finding the form of the previous season while Durant numbers continuing being high, and so we were getting the best of both. Then Durant got injured, Curry and Klay somehow forgot to shoot and Dubs were in trouble.

I think it is very likely that Durant will find his way very easily this time and reintegrate with the team. We will see in those 3 matches before playoffs, and anyway, Blazers aren't a threat so Dubs can experiment a bit.

 

[Jagga7]

BEASTbrook showing why he is MVP!!!

 

[charlton66]

That's fine, but I think that they need him in the playoffs. Curry has tanked in the last two finals, and Klay hasn't been much better. A fully fit Durant would increase their chances of winning the title a lot.

That is just patently untrue. Last year he was hurt but in 2015 he really should have been the finals MVP. He led the team in scoring in 5 out of the six games and averaged 26 for the finals as a whole. The next best was 16. He also led the team in assists for the series.

 

[Ramshock]

I know they lost last night but how far do you lot see the Raptors going?

 

[RobinLFC]

I know they lost last night but how far do you lot see the Raptors going?

If the playoffs started today, I'd have them lose to the Celtics in the Semis.

 

[charlton66]

I know they lost last night but how far do you lot see the Raptors going?

The Raps have a similar problem to the Warriors - reintegrating one of their best (if not their best) player into the team before the playoffs start. If they can do it successfully I can see them beating Boston in the Conference semis. If not, then I see them losing the same series to the Celtics.

 

[Scarecrow]

It's weird, I pretty much cleared that when I wrote what you just quoted, it wasn't a reference to James' quality as a basketball player, multiple times actually. I keep stressing on his physical stature, the simplest way I can put it in is this - we will probably never get an athlete as good as James. That's the short of it. Literally nothing to do with how well Jordan could rebound or anything else. James isn't the star of my youth either.

And Magic Johnson was 6' 9". You keep misinterpreting my point as 'we'll never see a player as good as him again' which isn't my point at all.

I get what you're saying. LeBron is the greatest athlete in the history of the NBA. I don't think there's anything controversial about that statement.

 

[RobinLFC]

The Raps have a similar problem to the Warriors - reintegrating one of their best (if not their best) player into the team before the playoffs start. If they can do it successfully I can see them beating Boston in the Conference semis. If not, then I see them losing the same series to the Celtics.

They're probably praying right now that the Cavs get their act together asap or they might face them in the Semis already.

 

[Neutral]

I'm sorry did somebody made a post in here saying LeBron was a top 50 player...then amended that to top 20...and said, Larry Bird is better than LeBron?

 

[Kasper]

When Lowry is back and fit I take the raptors over the Celtics. Stevens is a better coach than Casey but the raptors have the better +(deeper) roster and IT won't go off in the playoffs all the time with more defense played and less foul calls going his way.
As a hawks fan I hope we drop to 6th/7th as I'd much rather play Washington/Boston (if cavs get the top seed ofc) than Toronto.

 

[villain]

Lebron to me is basically a genetic freak with a decent skill set and a mental midget.

You put Kobe's or Jordan's brain in LeBron's body and they would of won far more then James has to date and probably a lot more than they did themselves. That's the part I can't get past for James, he has no killer instinct which makes it hard for me to put him in the true great category despite all that he has accomplished.

Jordan didn't have to go to no super team to make a name for himself and get runs on the board, Jordan didn't have to get every great player in the league to win it all. Lebron went to Miami because he couldn't get the job done on his own, then came back to Cleveland and now has the deepest team with the biggest salary because again can't get it done any other way. All the while playing in the worst iteration of the Eastern conference this entire time, meaning he can coast the season and still get 1/2 seed, sweep the playoffs and come in fresh for the finals.

I don't get how people can rate LeBron at all as an all time great. Just don't see it. Top 50 player for sure but there are so many I would put ahead of him.

The only debate to be had about Bron at the moment is whether he's GOAT or not.

 

[Sarni]

I think LeBron is between Hayward and Wilson Chandler. Closer to Chandler.

 

[Revan]

The only debate to be had about Bron at the moment is whether he's GOAT or not.

There is no debate to be made about him being GOAT. There is no argument you can make to put him higher than Jordan, and it is very difficult to put him above any of Russell, Chamberlain and Kareem. But after them, it is difficult to make an argument about putting an another player ahead of James (maybe Magic, but that's it).

I think LeBron is between Hayward and Wilson Chandler. Closer to Chandler.

From current players, I think he is somewhere between Javale McGee and Zaza Pachulia.

 

[charlton66]

From current players, I think he is somewhere between Javale McGee and Zaza Pachulia.

In height and weight?

 

[Moby]

There is no debate to be made about him being GOAT. There is no argument you can make to put him higher than Jordan, and it is very difficult to put him above any of Russell, Chamberlain and Kareem. But after them, it is difficult to make an argument about putting an another player ahead of James (maybe Magic, but that's it).

His career isn't over though.

 

[villain]

There is no debate to be made about him being GOAT. There is no argument you can make to put him higher than Jordan, and it is very difficult to put him above any of Russell, Chamberlain and Kareem. But after them, it is difficult to make an argument about putting an another player ahead of James (maybe Magic, but that's it).

Maybe 4 years ago when he was at Miami, sure.
But there's plenty of arguments to suggest that he's either the Goat now, or when his career is over he will be the Goat.

I feel like most of the opposition that suggests LBJ is not close to MJ is due to nostalgia and the commercial and global appeal & impact MJ has for Basketball. I don't debate this at all, nobody will ever come close to having as much impact for the sport as MJ, he is and always will be the most visible icon.
However we're talking about pure ability, and LBJ is either #2 now, and probably will be #1 when he's done. Or he's #1 now.

I'm a Kobe fan, I didn't want to admit it either, I don't take any pleasure in admitting any of this, but I can't deny the facts.

Lebron is a completely different player to Jordan. Jordan is a better scorer, he had more of a killer instinct, was more likely to drop 40pts a game more frequently. Though the flip side to that is LBJ is a much better asset to his team, his defensive work is amazing. If he were only a defensive player, his stats alone would be regarded as fantastic - I saw a stat a couple years back when he was at Heat that proved he was the second best defensive player in the league at the time, second only to Marc Gasol and on some statistics he was better - all while carrying a large part of the offensive burden also - and hes n. This trend is consistent throughout his entire career, he can guard all 5 points on the court. I'm not suggesting that Jordan was poor defensively, just that Bron is better overall - and he's still not done.

Part of that is because he's had to play his career with worse teammates than Jordan and therefore had to shoulder more responsibility, which is another reason why he's one of the best. Jordan had a fantastic team, the '96 is arguably the best in NBA history, but the entire Bulls dynasty in the 90's wasn't just sidekicks to Jordan & Pippen, they still reached the finals without him, winning 55 games. None of Bron's teams could hope to do that in any era he's played, not even now, and he has a strong team - he is the valued asset and losing him is like losing 2 players 1 offensively & 1 defensively.

At the end of his career Bron will move into the top 50 (at least) all time rebounders, top 10 career assists, he's on pace to beat Jordan for career points, and also leading scorer in playoff history, and there's more stats. His sheer physique means that but for injuries, I don't think he'll retire before he's 36 at least, which means 4 more years, but I think it will be closer to 6, and by then his overall stats will be ridiculous, they already are.

The main argument to be had is Championships, Jordan has of course won 3 more, with much better teams, I think Bron will finish with 5 Championships when all is said and done and that will be used as the singular stat that means he's not better than Jordan.

 

[Revan]

Maybe 4 years ago when he was at Miami, sure.
But there's plenty of arguments to suggest that he's either the Goat now, or when his career is over he will be the Goat.

I feel like most of the opposition that suggests LBJ is not close to MJ is due to nostalgia and the commercial and global appeal & impact MJ has for Basketball. I don't debate this at all, nobody will ever come close to having as much impact for the sport as MJ, he is and always will be the most visible icon.
However we're talking about pure ability, and LBJ is either #2 now, and probably will be #1 when he's done. Or he's #1 now.

I'm a Kobe fan, I didn't want to admit it either, I don't take any pleasure in admitting any of this, but I can't deny the facts.

Lebron is a completely different player to Jordan. Jordan is a better scorer, he had more of a killer instinct, was more likely to drop 40pts a game more frequently. Though the flip side to that is LBJ is a much better asset to his team, his defensive work is amazing. If he were only a defensive player, his stats alone would be regarded as fantastic - I saw a stat a couple years back when he was at Heat that proved he was the second best defensive player in the league at the time, second only to Marc Gasol and on some statistics he was better - all while carrying a large part of the offensive burden also. This trend is consistent throughout his entire career, he can guard all 5 points on the court. I'm not suggesting that Jordan was poor defensively, just that Bron is better overall - and he's still not done.

Part of that is because he's had to play his career with worse teammates than Jordan and therefore had to shoulder more responsibility, which is another reason why he's one of the best. Jordan had a fantastic team, the '96 is arguably the best in NBA history, but the entire Bulls dynasty in the 90's wasn't just sidekicks to Jordan & Pippen, they still reached the finals without him, winning 55 games. None of Bron's teams could hope to do that in any era he's played, not even now, and he has a strong team - he is the valued asset and losing him is like losing a player offensively & defensively.

At the end of his career Bron will move into the top 50 (at least) all time rebounders, top 10 career assists, he's on pace to beat Jordan for career points, and also leading scorer in playoff history, and there's more stats. His sheer physique means that but for injuries, I don't think he'll retire before he's 36 at least, which means 4 more years, but I think it will be closer to 6, and by then his overall stats will be ridiculous, they already are.

The main argument to be had is Championships, Jordan has of course won 3 more, with much better teams, I think Bron will finish with 5 Championships when all is said and done and that will be used as the singular stat that means he's not better than Jordan.

I pretty much disagree with everything you have written there, with a special focus on team comparisons. LeBron has won all his titles playing with another 2 all stars, Jordan never failed to win a title when he had an another all star with him. That is a big difference. Cavalieres have probably the biggest depth in the league, and Miami had an another top 5 player when James was there. Those 2 teams weren't worse than Chicago (if we remove Jordan/LeBron factor).

LeBron will score more points than Jordan but on average won't even be close. Playing more games doesn't make him a better player, especially considering that Jordan will have more trophies.

Take another thing, does anyone think that Jordan with that Miami team would have lost against Spurs and Mavericks? No fecking way that was going to happen.

Personally, I don't think it is even close. It is Ronaldo and Messi all over again.

 

[Neutral]

Only way LeBron gets close to MJ is LeBron wins 6 titles (yeah, double what he has accomplished up to this point in this career).

I know people hate it when I say this...but,

6 finals...6 wins...6 MVP's.

LeBron is going to own MJ statistically when his career is over - but, MJ - the skill, the will and the killer instinct is always going to be GOAT

 

[charlton66]

I'm not suggesting that Jordan was poor defensively, just that Bron is better overall - and he's still not done.

Let's just stop you here. You do realize that Jordan won the Defensive Player of the Year in 1988 and was on the all defensive 1st team 9 times?

 

[Neutral]

Let's just stop you here. You do realize that Jordan won the Defensive Player of the Year in 1988 and was on the all defensive 1st team 9 times?

I wanted to smash my keyboard into a million pieces - so, I didn't respond.

'not suggesting Jordan was poor defensively'

of course you can't suggest it...he was ELITE

 

[JustAFan]

Maybe 4 years ago when he was at Miami, sure.
But there's plenty of arguments to suggest that he's either the Goat now, or when his career is over he will be the Goat.

I feel like most of the opposition that suggests LBJ is not close to MJ is due to nostalgia and the commercial and global appeal & impact MJ has for Basketball. I don't debate this at all, nobody will ever come close to having as much impact for the sport as MJ, he is and always will be the most visible icon.
However we're talking about pure ability, and LBJ is either #2 now, and probably will be #1 when he's done. Or he's #1 now.

I'm a Kobe fan, I didn't want to admit it either, I don't take any pleasure in admitting any of this, but I can't deny the facts.

Lebron is a completely different player to Jordan. Jordan is a better scorer, he had more of a killer instinct, was more likely to drop 40pts a game more frequently. Though the flip side to that is LBJ is a much better asset to his team, his defensive work is amazing. If he were only a defensive player, his stats alone would be regarded as fantastic - I saw a stat a couple years back when he was at Heat that proved he was the second best defensive player in the league at the time, second only to Marc Gasol and on some statistics he was better - all while carrying a large part of the offensive burden also. This trend is consistent throughout his entire career, he can guard all 5 points on the court. I'm not suggesting that Jordan was poor defensively, just that Bron is better overall - and he's still not done.

Part of that is because he's had to play his career with worse teammates than Jordan and therefore had to shoulder more responsibility, which is another reason why he's one of the best. Jordan had a fantastic team, the '96 is arguably the best in NBA history, but the entire Bulls dynasty in the 90's wasn't just sidekicks to Jordan & Pippen, they still reached the finals without him, winning 55 games. None of Bron's teams could hope to do that in any era he's played, not even now, and he has a strong team - he is the valued asset and losing him is like losing a player offensively & defensively.

At the end of his career Bron will move into the top 50 (at least) all time rebounders, top 10 career assists, he's on pace to beat Jordan for career points, and also leading scorer in playoff history, and there's more stats. His sheer physique means that but for injuries, I don't think he'll retire before he's 36 at least, which means 4 more years, but I think it will be closer to 6, and by then his overall stats will be ridiculous, they already are.

The main argument to be had is Championships, Jordan has of course won 3 more, with much better teams, I think Bron will finish with 5 Championships when all is said and done and that will be used as the singular stat that means he's not better than Jordan.

FYI you might want to double check the NBA finals without Jordan claim. The team that won 55 games, lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs to the NY Knocks. The Bulls as a franchise have made the finals 6 times and won all 6. All which occurred with Jordan in the team.

Don't forget also that Lebron won titles with a very talented Miami Heat team, so you can't really claim he always carried his team far beyond his supporting cast.

Also, Jordan made the NBA all defensive team basically 9 straight years (if you discount the two seasons he was off playing baseball). No 3 all time in steals also. So yeah while carrying the load offensively (he was the main focus of the attack) he also led the outstanding Bulls defense.

Not belittling Lebron, he is one of the greats to play the game. Just pointing out some interesting items based on what you posted above.

 

[villain]

I pretty much disagree with everything you have written there, with a special focus on team comparisons. LeBron has won all his titles playing with another 2 all stars, Jordan never failed to win a title when he had an another all star with him. That is a big difference. Cavalieres have probably the biggest depth in the league, and Miami had an another top 5 player when James was there. Those 2 teams weren't worse than Chicago (if we remove Jordan/LeBron factor).

LeBron will score more points than Jordan but on average won't even be close. Playing more games doesn't make him a better player, especially considering that Jordan will have more trophies.

Take another thing, does anyone think that Jordan with that Miami team would have lost against Spurs and Mavericks? No fecking way that was going to happen.

Personally, I don't think it is even close. It is Ronaldo and Messi all over again.

I'm not sure why people do a disservice to Rodman & Pippen especially saying that they are 2 all stars Jordan played with, similar to Bosh & Wade. Pippen was an elite player, one of the best ever. Rodman was one of the best defensive players ever.
It's not comparable to simply say Bron also had all stars.

Let's just stop you here. You do realize that Jordan won the Defensive Player of the Year in 1988 and was on the all defensive 1st team 9 times? (the most ever btw)

Jordan was a great player defensively, when did I suggest otherwise?