NBA 2016-17

Sarni said:
He's an amazing offensive player.

Saw a funny stat about Westbrook, that he contested only 160 shots this season and has the lowest amount of contested 3-pointers of all NBA players who play 30 mpg+ aside from Whiteside and Gobert (who are fecking centers). He's a brilliant offensive player but I absolutely hate his stat padding in rebounding, he's a good rebounder for a point guard but he constantly loses his man to go to the rim and collect rebound, which is facilitated by his teammates who allow him to do that by boxing out. He'd be a much better player if he did not care so much about personal statistics. They have great rebounders in Gibson, Adams, Kanter, they don't need Westbrook to do that shit instead of defending his point guard.
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Yes and no. The team certainly needs Westbrook getting rebounds. The Thunder is a horrible half-court offensive team, they need to get out in transition. The easiest way for this to happen is for Westbrook to get the rebound and immediately launch the attack. His speed and athleticism is crucial. Adams and co. could get the rebounds but they aren't good enough to make a big outlet pass that can get the team into transition. Opposition also know that 90% of the time their pass will be going to Westbrook so they can set up for the steal.

I really hate the stat-padding argument. The Thunder are 30-7 when he gets a triple-double. They are like 12-24 when he doesn't. It helps the team when he is getting the rebounds and doing everything. That isn't to say that it is always a good thing. Against the Warriors last game he kept sagging off Curry - which is just suicide. There are other instances where he does it on the wrong player but he is generally pretty good at judging.
 
ZDwyr said:
Against the Warriors last game he kept sagging off Curry - which is just suicide. There are other instances where he does it on the wrong player but he is generally pretty good at judging.
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Russ plays with a massive chip on his shoulder. It's almost like he constantly feels he has something to prove. The all time greats, however, already know they are what they are and they don't need stats to somehow validate the point.

As to Curry, from everything you see, read, and hear, Russ just flat out does not like or respect him. It seems to have become personal - on both sides.
 
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Revan said:
Kawhi Leonard is a phenomenon. The only player in the league who is charged on both being the main attacker and defending the best player of the opposition team. He made LeBron his bitch yesterday, and he has been doing the same thing with every top player in the league.

Would it be too early to claim that not only he is the MVP, but he is the best player in the league full stop?

On other news, Cleveland are losing the first position in their conference. Also, what is the deal with Gasol and his three pointers? Can he ever miss one?
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He seems to be the most complete indeed. Won't get any regular season MVP award if his scoring numbers aren't higher.
 
kouroux said:
He seems to be the most complete indeed. Won't get any regular season MVP award if his scoring numbers aren't higher.
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Steph Curry won an MVP two years ago with these numbers -

Pts: 23.8
FG - 48.7%
Ast: 7.7
Reb: 4.3
Stl: 2.0
Blk: 0.2

Kawhi this season -

Pts: 26.0
FG - 48.6%
Ast: 3.5
Reb: 5.9
Stl: 1.8
Blk: 0.7

And of course unlike Steph he plays both ends of the court at an elite level, whereas Steph is a massive liability.

His numbers aren't why he won't win it...he won't win, because he's not 'exciting'.
 
Neutral said:
Steph Curry won an MVP two years ago with these numbers -

Pts: 23.8
FG - 48.7%
Ast: 7.7
Reb: 4.3
Stl: 2.0
Blk: 0.2

Kawhi this season -

Pts: 26.0
FG - 48.6%
Ast: 3.5
Reb: 5.9
Stl: 1.8
Blk: 0.7

And of course unlike Steph he plays both ends of the court at an elite level, whereas Steph is a massive liability.

His numbers aren't why he won't win it...he won't win, because he's not 'exciting'.
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I think Kawhi should be MVP. I've actually said if I were starting a franchise he would be the first player I would take because of his overall skill set and his age.

As to Curry, however, and his defensive prowess that is just not true any more. Under Kerr he has improved/been given the opportunity to become a very good defender. He's not Kawhi or Draymond but he is certainly not a liability. He really struggled in the finals last year because he had essentially lost his side to side movement, but in the last 3 years he has become one of the best defensive point guards in the league.

http://www.knbr.com/2016/03/29/a-breakdown-of-why-steph-curry-is-actually-a-really-good-defender/
http://thesportsquotient.com/nba/2016/4/18/why-steph-curry-is-still-underrated-defensively
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/12648764/how-stephen-curry-developed-top-flight-defender
 
charlton66 said:
Yes. Kawhi is 25, LeBron is 32.
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Ah, missed out on age. Still probably go with LeBron, don't think Kawhi will get any better than he is now and he's not at LeBron's level at this age or for the next 3-4 odd years.

However considering that I'll go with Anthony Davis. I think he's already as good as someone like Kawhi and will definitely get better in the next few years, perhaps the most naturally gifted basketball player in the league, makes everything look so simple. Can't help but draw similarities to none other than The Dream.
 
Kawhi might be a marginally better perimeter defender and maybe shooter but LeBron is better at everything else - especially playmaking. While Leonard is a wonderful player, LeBron is special. At one point of last years NBA Finals he led in points, rebounds, assists, blocks and steals.

Edit: He actually led at all of them in the end.
 
I would go on to say that there hasn't been a bigger loss in the history of the NBA than it will be the day LeBron retires. You can think of getting insanely skilled players like Jordan, Magic or Bird, but this combination of athleticism, size and utter unplayable domination with and without the ball is absolutely once in a lifetime. There maybe were question marks before last season but what he did in last year's finals will be remembered for decades to come.
 
Moby said:
I would go on to say that there hasn't been a bigger loss in the history of the NBA than it will be the day LeBron retires. You can think of getting insanely skilled players like Jordan, Magic or Bird, but this combination of athleticism, size and utter unplayable domination with and without the ball is absolutely once in a lifetime. There maybe were question marks before last season but what he did in last year's finals will be remembered for decades to come.
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People said the same about Wilt, Bill Russell, Bird, Johnson, Jordan (his performance in Game 5 of the 1997 Finals while battling the flu was epic).

Also, don't underestimate people's ability to forget things.


Magic Johnson, 20 year old rookie, asked to play center, YES CENTER in the NBA Finals due to an injury to Kareem. He basically played every position on the court that game, scored 42 points, added 15 rebounds , 7 assists, 14 from 14 from the free throw line. Did I mention he was a rookie?

Jordan, basically he was Superman in every NBA finals he played in. Gets the Flu? No problem. Burying Portland in one half of game 1 of the series. 35 points including 6 three's and the famous turning to the announcers and just shrugging when his 6th three went in.

Wilt and Bill, well the only one who could play either of them, was each other.

Only the existence of Magic Johnson kept Bird from dominating an entire decade.

Just saying don't underestimate these players nor people's ability to forget how awesome the actually were.
 
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charlton66 said:
Russ plays with a massive chip on his shoulder. It's almost like he constantly feels he has something to prove. The all time greats, however, already know they are what they are and they don't need stats to somehow validate the point.

As to Curry, from everything you see, read, and hear, Russ just flat out does not like or respect him. It seems to have become personal - on both sides.
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I actually think Curry and Westbrook are quite cordial. They certainly got along well at the all-star break and there is footage of them hugging and chatting. The only Warriors players Westbrook has an issue with is - I think - Draymond, Durant and Zaza.
 
Is the lack of an elite coach hurting the Cavs? I've read, their plus/minus is dreadful when LeBron is off the court - suggests they're offense is basically just get him to run the game.
 
JustAFan said:
People said the same about Wilt, Bill Russell, Bird, Johnson, Jordan (his performance in Game 5 of the 1997 Finals while battling the flu was epic).

Also, don't underestimate people's ability to forget things.


Magic Johnson, 20 year old rookie, asked to play center, YES CENTER in the NBA Finals due to an injury to Kareem. He basically played every position on the court that game, scored 42 points, added 15 rebounds , 7 assists, 14 from 14 from the free throw line. Did I mention he was a rookie?

Jordan, basically he was Superman in every NBA finals he played in. Gets the Flu? No problem. Burying Portland in one half of game 1 of the series. 35 points including 6 three's and the famous turning to the announcers and just shrugging when his 6th three went in.

Wilt and Bill, well the only one who could play either of them, was each other.

Only the existence of Magic Johnson kept Bird from dominating an entire decade.

Just saying don't underestimate these players nor people's ability to forget how awesome the actually were.
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I think the problem when LeBron goes is, there probably won't be a top 5 ever calibre of talent in the league to take over from him.

Magic followed by Jordan followed by Shaq/Kobe then LeBron. None of the current lot are quite the same gravy. Though you never know who will come in by the time LeBron goes.
 
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Neutral said:
Steph Curry won an MVP two years ago with these numbers -

Pts: 23.8
FG - 48.7%
Ast: 7.7
Reb: 4.3
Stl: 2.0
Blk: 0.2

Kawhi this season -

Pts: 26.0
FG - 48.6%
Ast: 3.5
Reb: 5.9
Stl: 1.8
Blk: 0.7

And of course unlike Steph he plays both ends of the court at an elite level, whereas Steph is a massive liability.

His numbers aren't why he won't win it...he won't win, because he's not 'exciting'.
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You make a good point but I still think his numbers are why he won't win it (this year to be precise) because you have players who have ridiculous scoring matches and performances in Harden and Westbrook. Being exciting is an important criteria but if he were to score on their level, he'd win the MVP no doubt because he is the most complete.
 
Skills said:
I think the problem when LeBron goes is, there probably won't be a top 5 ever calibre of talent in the league to take over from him.

Magic followed by Jordan followed by Shaq/Kobe then LeBron. None of the current lot are quite the same gravy. Though you never know who will come in by the time LeBron goes.
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Are they top 5 ever players though? I would guess that most would go with Jordan, Kareem, Chamberlaint, Russell and LeBron.

There are plenty of great players in NBA. I don't think that the difference between LeBron and Durant/Kawhi is really that big (yes, LeBron is the better player but Durant is great too, and Kawhi is dominating every top player in both ends of courts this season, including LeBron), Anthony Davis has potential to become the best power forward of all time, Curry, Harden, Westbrook are amazing players and for sure some new kid will come and become great.

Obviously, one of the best ever player retiring will be a miss for NBA, but he would be replaced with someone else, similar to how it happened during the entire history of the sport.
Sarni said:
Kawhi might be a marginally better perimeter defender and maybe shooter but LeBron is better at everything else - especially playmaking. While Leonard is a wonderful player, LeBron is special. At one point of last years NBA Finals he led in points, rebounds, assists, blocks and steals.

Edit: He actually led at all of them in the end.
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Kawhi is not a marginally better perimeter player and shooter. He is without a doubt a better perimeter player and a better shooter. He also is charged with defending the opposition best player (unless that player is much bigger, like a center or so) which surely would affect his offensive play a bit.

LeBron is by far a better playmaker and last playoff final he showed what he can do. But lets not forget that a 22 years old Kawhi Leonard was the playoffs MVP a few years ago. Guess which team Spurs defeated in that final and which player Kawhi had to defend while also having the best attacking numbers on his team.

I am not saying that Kawhi is a better player than LeBron. I am saying that he has been a better player this season, and really, there isn't as a big difference between them as people are making.
 
charlton66 said:
No, just no.
http://www.si.com/nba/video/2017/03/21/russell-westbrook-steph-curry-bad-blood
(From about 1.04 is where they really start to discuss this).
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I'm still not sold. That is just that guys opinion - which he based on a lot of on-court stuff (where Westbrook is very 'with me or against me'). I've seen Curry and Westrbook chatting and laughing together at a shoot-around at the ASB and chatting together at some of the ASB media events. I'm not saying they are friends or even like each other, but I don't think he hates Curry. I think he does, deep down, respect him too. But he won't ever admit that for a few reasons. As you said Russ plays with the chip on his shoulder, I think he is a bit envious of Curry being an elite 3-point shooter, winning a title and becoming the better player in the past two years (I will say Russ is better this season but I know we disagree over that).

I guess what I mean is that in 10 years - when both are retired - I don't see there being an issue between the two anyway. I can't say the same for Westbrook/Durant though.
 
Massive win for us. Nurkic absolutely destroyed Denver out there, 33 points and 16 rebounds, he played like a man possessed, trying to prove a point. We hit a gold mine with that trade, and to think that with Memphis pick becoming better and better we could land someone like John Collins, Bam Adebayo, Ivan Rabb or even Jarrett Allen with it which could in turn solve our big men issues at power forward position (Allen is not much of a PF but Collins and Adebayo look like top prospects). I wanted to tank 5-6 weeks ago when we looked hopeless but even since Nurkic came and Lillard got into proper form we've been amazing. Probably a top 5 team over the last 3-4 weeks.

And draft will actually be exciting this year. We are now projected to have 15th, 20th and 26th picks, and some good talents could go there. We could also maybe consolidate two of them for something higher - maybe someone around 7th to 10th will want to trade their pick. I think getting three players would be good, you essentially get three talented lads who will earn next to nothing for the next 4 years and could use them as bench players even. Dream scenario we get Collins, Giles and Justin Jackson, or one of Oregon guys (all of them are projected to go in the second round though so it'd be a reach to get them even with Cleveland's pick).
 
What happened with Nurkic? He's playing three times as good as during his time at Denver.
 
Revan said:
What happened with Nurkic? He's playing three times as good as during his time at Denver.
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Confidence and he cares again. I think he was just down in Denver because Jokic was getting all the praise and he was hardly getting any playing time.

It's a trade that literally changed the Blazers. I'd not even swap him for Cousins right now even though I wanted us to move for Cousins instead. There are maybe 5 centers I'd have ahead of him, maximum, not only because I like his ability but because of how much he bring to the table mentality wise. He's the toughest playing member of the team out there and Vonleh has also improved so much from playing with him. Only 22 too.
 
ZDwyr said:
I'm still not sold. That is just that guys opinion - which he based on a lot of on-court stuff (where Westbrook is very 'with me or against me'). I've seen Curry and Westrbook chatting and laughing together at a shoot-around at the ASB and chatting together at some of the ASB media events. I'm not saying they are friends or even like each other, but I don't think he hates Curry. I think he does, deep down, respect him too. But he won't ever admit that for a few reasons. As you said Russ plays with the chip on his shoulder, I think he is a bit envious of Curry being an elite 3-point shooter, winning a title and becoming the better player in the past two years (I will say Russ is better this season but I know we disagree over that).

I guess what I mean is that in 10 years - when both are retired - I don't see there being an issue between the two anyway. I can't say the same for Westbrook/Durant though.
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Fair enough. Will have to agree to disagree.

On another subject, for all those conspiracy theorists out there, tonight is the sixth time in a row that the Dubs will play the Spurs on the second night of a back to back in San Antonio. Jose would have a field day with this. :)
 
charlton66 said:
Fair enough. Will have to agree to disagree.

On another subject, for all those conspiracy theorists out there, tonight is the sixth time in a row that the Dubs will play the Spurs on the second night of a back to back in San Antonio. Jose would have a field day with this. :)
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Easy peasy. Rest Curry, Klay, Green and Iguodala. Win the next 7 games and get the first spot.

It would be so embarrassing though if Dubs lose again versus Spurs.
 
Last night again showed why using just numbers to judge an MVP is a bad idea, triple double for Harden but anyone who saw the game would tell you that he was rubbish
 
Skills said:
Is the lack of an elite coach hurting the Cavs?
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I have no faith in Ty. He was good last playoffs but his minutes management this season has been horrible. He's lucky that they have the best player to run the court for them but he needs to do a lot better in the playoffs.
 
JustAFan said:
People said the same about Wilt, Bill Russell, Bird, Johnson, Jordan (his performance in Game 5 of the 1997 Finals while battling the flu was epic).

Also, don't underestimate people's ability to forget things.


Magic Johnson, 20 year old rookie, asked to play center, YES CENTER in the NBA Finals due to an injury to Kareem. He basically played every position on the court that game, scored 42 points, added 15 rebounds , 7 assists, 14 from 14 from the free throw line. Did I mention he was a rookie?

Jordan, basically he was Superman in every NBA finals he played in. Gets the Flu? No problem. Burying Portland in one half of game 1 of the series. 35 points including 6 three's and the famous turning to the announcers and just shrugging when his 6th three went in.

Wilt and Bill, well the only one who could play either of them, was each other.

Only the existence of Magic Johnson kept Bird from dominating an entire decade.

Just saying don't underestimate these players nor people's ability to forget how awesome the actually were.
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I completely agree, for a fact I don't consider LeBron superior to any of them, yet. He's definitely well in that discussion now and is the best player we have had post-Jordan.

I won't talk much about Wilt and Bill, different era, completely different setup, impossible to put them into any picture.

As far as the likes of Bird, Magic and Jordan go, they are three of the greatest players of all time, obviously and LeBron so far hasn't surpassed them, though he could do that and has the chance to rival Jordan for the GOAT in his remaining career.

Having said that, as skillful, magical and successful those players were, LeBron is in that category himself as far as those criteria are concerned. However, LeBron is also widely acknowledged as the greatest athlete the game has seen, he's definitely the greatest athlete I've ever witnessed on screen and after watching him countless times it still is unbelievable to see what he brings to the court, it's an absolutely insane physique. That's more where I'm coming from here, and that is something you can only hope to see again, while it could just be a once in a 50 odd years occurrence. The experience of watching him can only be rivalled by the experience of watching a prime Shaq, who was also phenomenally gifted and had the chance to become the greatest ever had he shown a better work ethic. As good as a prime Jordan was, and I know 99% tried and failed, but you can at least have a plan to deal with, at least 1v1 which is entirely different from beating a Jordan-led team but you can still fecking plan, against players like prime Shaq or LeBron, what do you do?

Don't get me wrong, the undisputed GOAT for me is still Michael Jordan, but I cannot imagine such a combination of size, strength, athleticism, pace and GOAT tier skill both with and without the ball with brilliant leadership and mentality to show up again. He may fall short of catching up to those guys and in terms of overall career he could still land in the second tier but what he simply brings to the court as an entire package is as rare as it can get, and again mainly because of his physical attributes. We'll get GOAT tier skilled players again, absolutely.

Fwiw he has already created history that would go into that list you posted. It won't be harsh for someone to say that he has surpassed Bird, for example. Champions come and go, but this is just a very special specimen.
 
Moby said:
As good as a prime Jordan was, and I know 99% tried and failed, but you can at least have a plan to deal with, at least 1v1 which is entirely different from beating a Jordan-led team but you can still fecking plan, against players like prime Shaq or LeBron, what do you do?
.
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The same thing you do against any of the all-time great players, you have a game plan and try to make it work, but like those against Jordan, you know it will mostly fail. With Shaq it was "hack a Shaq" knowing he sucked at free throws.
 
JustAFan said:
The same thing you do against any of the all-time great players, you have a game plan and try to make it work, but like those against Jordan, you know it will mostly fail. With Shaq it was "hack a Shaq" knowing he sucked at free throws.
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Yeah but that only worked because he sucked at free throws, there was no way you could legitimately even have the first thought of stopping him dominating you when he was at his peak, not even a plan you know that would fail. He made the likes of Mutombo and Mourning look like kindergarten kids lol. So miss watching him, even though my favourite modern era C is The Dream but there's nothing like watching Shaq during his physical peak absolutely dismantle everything in sight. You cannot guard him, as simple as that.

People who have watched Wilt say he was probably the only player who dominated the opposition more than Shaq and it took like 40 odd years for another one to come along. This is something you can't count on getting again, absolute freaks of nature these blokes. And LeBron is still a better athlete than them, which is insane. Too big, too fast, too good, really, to an unfair level.
 
Moby said:
Yeah but that only worked because he sucked at free throws, there was no way you could legitimately even have the first thought of stopping him dominating you when he was at his peak, not even a plan you know that would fail. He made the likes of Mutombo and Mourning look like kindergarten kids lol. So miss watching him, even though my favourite modern era C is The Dream but there's nothing like watching Shaq during his physical peak absolutely dismantle everything in sight. You cannot guard him, as simple as that.

People who have watched Wilt say he was probably the only player who dominated the opposition more than Shaq and it took like 40 odd years for another one to come along. This is something you can't count on getting again, absolute freaks of nature these blokes. And LeBron is still a better athlete than them, which is insane. Too big, too fast, too good, really, to an unfair level.
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Yes great players are difficult to stop. The only one who ever really stopped Michael Jordan once he reached his peak, was Michael Jordan when he took off to play baseball for a bit. Other than that he was simply unplayable. There would be the odd off game, but that was just because he was human. Not a dig at James, I am just pointing out that some of the greats of the past were also unstoppable.

Watching any of the greats at their peak dismantle opponents , well that is why they are considered greats. Whether it is Larry Bird, Shaq, Will, Bill Russell, Jerry West, Jordan, James, Kobe, Karl Malone, Tim Duncan and David Robinson, Bob Cousey, Walt Frazier, etc etc etc.

Just pointing out what you are saying about James, has been said about many others before.
 
JustAFan said:
Just pointing out what you are saying about James, has been said about many others before.
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All for a lot of different reasons though, which is what I'm trying to point out and some of the reasons seem to weigh more at least as far as I'm concerned. I mean, all respect to someone like Bob Cousy for being a real pioneer for his position and leaving behind an undisputed legacy, but he played at a time when the game was evolving and he along with the likes of other greats of the 60s laid the foundations, objectively players naturally improved their skill sets and ended up as better players overall even if not as groundbreaking.

I get that you are saying that there'll be someone in the 10 years after James retires who will get similar praise, absolutely, and even more for that matter but that's entirely for being a great 'player', which is what all these share in common as you pointed out. What they don't share are the same physical attributes and that is what I've been stressing upon. There's a really small chance we will get an athlete at the level of LeBron again soon, there has never been one as good as him before in the entire history of the sport and I would be surprised if even springs along soon again, hence the importance of his presence as compared to other greats. That makes LeBron unique, even in that company. That isn't something that has been said about every great player.
 
JustAFan said:
Yes great players are difficult to stop. The only one who ever really stopped Michael Jordan once he reached his peak, was Michael Jordan when he took off to play baseball for a bit. Other than that he was simply unplayable. There would be the odd off game, but that was just because he was human. Not a dig at James, I am just pointing out that some of the greats of the past were also unstoppable.

Watching any of the greats at their peak dismantle opponents , well that is why they are considered greats. Whether it is Larry Bird, Shaq, Will, Bill Russell, Jerry West, Jordan, James, Kobe, Karl Malone, Tim Duncan and David Robinson, Bob Cousey, Walt Frazier, etc etc etc.

Just pointing out what you are saying about James, has been said about many others before.
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Jordan never failed to win the ring (and playoff's MVP) when he played with an another all star. *

James failed to do so many times. Heck, he failed to do so three times while playing with another 2 all stars (and twice playing with an another top 5 player).

People who say that you could plan against Jordan but not against James need a rationality check. From the history, you can see that there are only 2 players who basically won every time if they had supporting crew. Michael Jordan and Bill Russell. The others can pretend to be them, but they aren't them.

* Actually he did it once. That season when he returned in the end of the season.

@Moby

James above Larry Bird every day of the week. Jordan is undisputed GOAT. The trio of big centers come behind him, and then I would say that James and Magic are on par. Complete top 10 with Bryant, Bird, Duncan and Shaq.
 
Moby said:
That's easily the most rubbish argument that is used against LeBron.

Anyway, try going through my posts above again, this isn't a x>y discussion.
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Moby said:
I would go on to say that there hasn't been a bigger loss in the history of the NBA than it will be the day LeBron retires. You can think of getting insanely skilled players like Jordan, Magic or Bird, but this combination of athleticism, size and utter unplayable domination with and without the ball is absolutely once in a lifetime. There maybe were question marks before last season but what he did in last year's finals will be remembered for decades to come.
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that is what started at least my participation in the conversation. All I have been pointing out is that your claim about James has been made about many other NBA players. Jordan was awesome at both ends of the court, he could score from all over, rebound, defend, hand out assists, ultimate Mr. Clutch, made everyone around him better, a true unstoppable force on the court.

Magic Johnson, a 6'8" point guard for feck sake at a time when many point guards were around 6'0", all the things you say about James, were said about Magic.

You will learn as your get older, the stars of your youth easily get replaced, and new great ones are always coming along, sometimes right away, sometimes there is a gap, but they will be there and you will realize people will say the same things about these new stars that they said about the old ones.

James is a very special player, but no more so then the likes of Jordan, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Bill Russell, and others
 
JustAFan said:
that is what started at least my participation in the conversation. All I have been pointing out is that your claim about James has been made about many other NBA players. Jordan was awesome at both ends of the court, he could score from all over, rebound, defend, hand out assists, ultimate Mr. Clutch, made everyone around him better, a true unstoppable force on the court.

Magic Johnson, a 6'8" point guard for feck sake at a time when many point guards were around 6'0", all the things you say about James, were said about Magic.

You will learn as your get older, the stars of your youth easily get replaced, and new great ones are always coming along, sometimes right away, sometimes there is a gap, but they will be there and you will realize people will say the same things about these new stars that they said about the old ones.

James is a very special player, but no more so then the likes of Jordan, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Bill Russell, and others
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It's weird, I pretty much cleared that when I wrote what you just quoted, it wasn't a reference to James' quality as a basketball player, multiple times actually. I keep stressing on his physical stature, the simplest way I can put it in is this - we will probably never get an athlete as good as James. That's the short of it. Literally nothing to do with how well Jordan could rebound or anything else. James isn't the star of my youth either.

And Magic Johnson was 6' 9". You keep misinterpreting my point as 'we'll never see a player as good as him again' which isn't my point at all.
 
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