Play-offs Ariza is so good. 
NBA 2014-2015
- Thread starter Eboue
- Start date
Harden has been better than Curry in both games.
ffs what an anti-climax
I'm pretty sure there was a foul on that last play.
Man that was heart-breaking!!
Here's a chart I made for point guard efficiency. @adexkola
Some of these guys aren't actually low usage, it's just that Westbrook would quite literally be off the chart if I didn't structure it this way.
Some of these guys aren't actually low usage, it's just that Westbrook would quite literally be off the chart if I didn't structure it this way.
Here's a chart I made for point guard efficiency. @adexkola
Some of these guys aren't actually low usage, it's just that Westbrook would quite literally be off the chart if I didn't structure it this way.
Damn Derrick sucks :cry:
But not quite as bad as Westbrook it seems, get in. Result.
Kobe is the WOAT GOAT contender. Not even a realistic top 10 really.
Depends on who you're asking....and yes, he's very much a realistic candidate.
Last edited:
Kobe is top 10 all time.
Why didn't the Rockets call a time-out at the end? Surely that would have been the smart decision.
They did not want to give the Warriors time to adjust. But, I think they should have called a timeout once Howard got the ball.
Yeah I understand the first bit. But yeah as soon as Harden got the ball back from Howard, Curry and Thompson were all over him, a time-out would have been the smart call.
Top 10.
Jordan, Kareem, Larry, Magic, Bill, Wilt, Oscar, LeBron, Shaq, Timmy or Hakeem or Dr J or Moses ...so Kobe possibly top 15.
Jordan, Kareem, Larry, Magic, Bill, Wilt, Oscar, LeBron, Shaq, Timmy or Hakeem or Dr J or Moses ...so Kobe possibly top 15.
Is that your top 10 or the universal top 10?
Hawks need this win. If Cavs go up 2-0 then I can't see them losing the series (not that I think they will lose anyway).
And they continue being terrible. I predict a sweep.
Just because you dislike the guy doesn't mean he isn't great, most people would have him in their top 10 of all time.
I'm messing around with Tableau...
Everyone their own opinion of course...
LeBron should join the West to have some actual competition instead of the annual Eastern roll-over parade in the Playoffs. Can't believe how bad the Hawks have been.
Last edited:
That he hates Bryant and uses every possible statistic or graphic to point out that he actually sucks.
Not surprised, success breeds envy.
I don't know Kobe Bryant to dislike him. I also considered there to be FAR FAR more than 13 great players in NBA history.....he happens to be, other than Steve Nash and Allen Iverson, my favourite player of his generation(95-2010 peaks I guess).....so I don't how favouritism even would come into it, given I wouldn't have either of them near the top 15.
It's the Top 10.
My top 10 is - MJ, Steve Nash, Larry Bird, Chuck, Reggie Miller, Allen Iverson, Derrick Rose, The Glove, Bill GOATon, Pippen.
"The top 10"?
The only top 10 that matters is your top 10 imo.
you are so bitter. There's no agenda in numbers. In fact I did point guards first, that doesn't really align with your accusation does it? Clown.Bryant at his peak had some incredible seasons where he was legitimately one of the best of all time. However, his peak has long since passed and he refuses to admit it. Imagine being a worse player than Austin rivers and still using more possessions than James Harden. It's staggering. The smart lakers fans are fine with it because they needed to tank last year anyway. Unfortunately those are few and far between and most of them still defend him as a good player in spite of every available piece of evidence.
Must of been a long search for those smart Lakers fans.
Usage rate is the percentage of possessions that end in a shot or a turnover by that player. So for example, Kobe has a usage rate of 33.6 and Klay Thompson has a usage rate of 25.5. This means that if Kobe is on the floor for 75 Lakers possessions, he will either take a shot or turn it over in 25 possessions. If Thompson is on the floor for 75 Warriors possessions, he will take a shot or turn it over on 19 possessions. Usage rate measures volume.
True shooting percentage is like basic FG% but better. It takes 2 point shots, 3 point shots and free throws in account. It then weights them accordingly. (Making a 3 is more valuable than making a free throw) Then it combines them into one number. True Shooting Percentage measures efficiency.
So with that in mind, we can look at all of the shooting guards in the league in one graph.
I've added quadrants and labels to clarify it. The top right quadrant is for truly elite offensive players. It means that not only are they very efficient, they do it a lot. Kyle Korver is in the bottom right. He is by far the most efficient shooter among SG's this year, but he only has a usage rate of 13%, lower even than Iman Shumpert and Anthony Morrow. His efficiency is still very valuable, but not as much as James Harden, who can be almost as efficient but at triple the usage rate.
In the bottom left quadrant, we have the bad shooters who are at least smart enough to realize they are bad and not shoot too much. Austin Rivers sucks but he limits the damage by not shooting very much. Lance Stephenson was beyond awful this year though.
In the top left, you have guys that are basically classic chuckers. Old Kobe Bryant, Jamal Crawford, DeMar Derozan, Monte Ellis, etc. To these guys, any shot is a good shot and they aren't hitting enough of them to justify it. It can kill a team, like Crawford did in Game 7 against Houston.
The chart really bears out what you would expect too. Spot up shooters like Wes Matthews, JJ Reddick, Kyle Korver, Danny Green and Anthony Morrow are all guys who play on teams with offensive players who dominate the ball. In this case, Lillard/Aldridge, Paul/Griffin, Teague, Parker/Duncan and Durant/Westbrook. Their job is to float around the three point line and try to get open. They can't do this as often as a guy like Paul or Westbrook can get to the paint but they are more efficient at it when they do it. That's why they are in the Low Usage, High Efficiency quadrant.
It's when you say things like that, that's why people say you have an agenda against Kobe.
Bryant at his peak had some incredible seasons where he was legitimately one of the best of all time. However, his peak has long since passed and he refuses to admit it. Imagine being a worse player than Austin rivers and still using more possessions than James Harden. It's staggering. The smart lakers fans are fine with it because they needed to tank last year anyway. Unfortunately those are few and far between and most of them still defend him as a good player in spite of every available piece of evidence.
You can throw any numbers or stats at me, Kobe isn't worse than Austin Rivers.
However I agree with you, Kobe is pretty much done and he needs to realise it for the Lakers to move forward. He's held us back over the last 2/3 years, especially with that huge contract. I see the argument that he's earnt it over his career and it's BS. Here and now counts.
He was last year. Obviously I'm not arguing that over their career. No one actually thinks that right? But he was last year.
I just think we look at basketball differently and for that reason there'll be things we don't agree on.
If I was picking a team, I'd never pick Rivers over Kobe, not based on this year, last year or any year.
That only makes sense if you could get Kobe to play within his role on the team based on his declining skills. His ego won't allow that. Here's the 06-07 season for Shooting Guards, a time when Bryant was legitimately great.
Calm down, man. I was only being half serious and wasn't even wrong. No need for the insult either.Eboue said:
I've got no problem to admit that Bryant hasn't been good since 2011, also thanks to his injuries in the past two years. I just think those charts are more or less pointless and tell you very little about how good someone is. We could argue all day and you'll never convince me that Westbrook isn't one of the best three PGs in that graphic, no matter in which quadrant he's situated.
I think Bryant is top 10 all time, you don't, fine.
They are only pointless if you don't believe in empirical data. The numbers aren't just generated out of nowhere. You and I could watch a game and we could both agree that Bryant and Harden are ball dominant guards but we couldn't pick out just by watching that Bryant uses 3 more possessions per game. We could both agree that Korver and Reddick are good spot up shooters but we couldn't notice that 1) Korver uses 5 less possessions and 2) He is much much more efficient than Redick. The charts allow us to see just how good Curry was, compared to the other point guards. You are sticking to your pre-conceived notions, I'm re-evaluating using data.
I just think you look too much into it - I just like to watch a basketball game and won't really care that Bryant uses three possessions per game more than Harden. And I didn't need that chart to know that Korver is one of the most efficient shooters in the league and Curry by far and away the best PG this season. In fact, if you gave me a blanket one, I think it'd put almost all that names in the right quadrant.
It's fine for you to enjoy the game however you want. Everyone should enjoy the game however they want to. But some of us want to understand it more and more. And it is emphatically not pointless. There is a reason the Rockets are successful, it's because of charts like that and like this.
