Nathaniel Clyne | Signed for Liverpool

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DanNistelrooy said:
When I read posts like this I feel like we are back in 2009, there is very little wrong with his defensive game. Agreed that he is a liability at keeping fit. Also agreed that I would be surprised if he was here next season, which I think is a big shame.



As I say, he is decent - I rate Clyne and wouldn't be disappointed if we signed him because I am fed up watching a right midfielder play there at the moment. I didn't write him off, I was just responding to a question asking how good he was - which in my opinion is nowhere near Rafael at his peak let alone Dani Alves.
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I disagree with the first point. He's better than he was but at times still lacks discipline - flying into tackles and going off his feet when he doesnt need to. I don't think he's ever going to lose that and as well as he's played at times he can be extremely frustrating. That, and his inability to stay consistently fit are issues for me. I think it speaks volumes that even when fit Valencia, playing out of position, is preferred.

Saying "he'll never be as good as Rafael" is writing him off in my book. If Van Gaal brings him in he's doing so because he sees something in him. He's a young player with a lot of potential at the right time in his career to move on. He could be a player who's a fixture for the next 10 years. If Van Gaal thinks so then fair enough.

Alves is a very good player - now. He wants a 3 year deal by all accounts hence why he's not already signed a new deal. I dont want the club to be a place where players pitch up looking for a pay off.
 
Skills said:
Anyone thinks Shaw's average, please find a different hobby. You're wasting your time with this sport. There's plenty of other hobbies which might be a better fit for you.
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Agreed.

He's miles better then Clyne, and also 5 years younger.
 
Skills said:
Anyone thinks Shaw's average, please find a different hobby. You're wasting your time with this sport. There's plenty of other hobbies which might be a better fit for you.
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Quite. He's one of those players you only have to watch for thirty seconds to see how good he is. Every touch screams quality.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
Maybe so but, they mostly cost more because English clubs are the richest in the World so they can hold out for more money. It even exists for non English players who play for English clubs see how much Real paid for Bale and how much PSG paid for David Luiz.
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This.

The premium is for PL proven.

The Prem is two, if not three, times richer than the second wealthiest league. It's market forces. Simple.
 
There's a serious lack of available quality rightbacks out there. We either take a gamble on a veteran like Alves, a top prospect like Darmian or we buy a safer option like Clyne. Although many want Valencia out I'm pretty sure he's staying, he can be a good 2nd choice RB.

I really can't think of many good rightbacks which are available, it's a given that van Gaal wants a right footer. These are realistic options I could think of.
Thomas Meunier - a tall strong fullback with great stamina from Belgium, he'd be a risk because he's from a lower league. Haven't seen much from him myself.
Santiago Arias - PSV rightback, a real talent too. Had many niggling injuries this season but has played well most of the time. Good attacking player but suspect defensively. Don't think he's ready for step up yet.
Dani Alves - Isn't getting any younger but could still provide us an attacking option down the right for a few years if van Gaal thinks a youngster rightback is ready to step up soon in either McNair or Janko.
Gregory van der Wiel - not great defensively but he's got a great final ball. Can link up well too, but I don't think he's much better than Clyne overall.

Clyne will offer defensive stability but hasn't got a great final ball. I'd be happy enough with him, especially since he will have Mata/Di Maria in front of him who aren't the best defensively. I think a right side of Di Maria - Alves could be great going forward but can leave us weak at the back. Personally I would scout Meunier as alternative, I've seen some matches and have been impressed but I haven't seen enough of him for a good judgement.

Isn't there a good rightback available in Germany or Spain? Carvajal would cost too much, Danilo is replacing Arbeloa and not him.
 
Brightonian said:
Quite. He's one of those players you only have to watch for thirty seconds to see how good he is. Every touch screams quality.
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From this comment, someone might think that he's fecking Roberto Carlos.

Anyway, I think that Shaw is quality. Not as good as Alaba when he was Shaw's age, and to be fair I don't expect him to challenge Alaba/Rodriguez for the best left back in thw world spot, but I think that he can be a very good player for us in the next 10-15 years. A left version of Gary Neville, with more pace and power.

I don't think that Clyne has half of Shaw's potential though.
 
Revan said:
From this comment, someone might think that he's fecking Roberto Carlos.

Anyway, I think that Shaw is quality. Not as good as Alaba when he was Shaw's age, and to be fair I don't expect him to challenge Alaba/Rodriguez for the best left back in thw world spot, but I think that he can be a very good player for us in the next 10-15 years. A left version of Gary Neville, with more pace and power.

I don't think that Clyne has half of Shaw's potential though.
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Personally I see no reason why he can't be the best left back in the world in the next 2-3 seasons. Alaba is barely playing there these days. Rodriguez is very good but not world class and is also a few years older than Shaw. The only thing that could hold Shaw back would be injuries and hopefully he will have more luck with them next season. The guy is a sure thing.

Edit: Sorry for going off topic.
 
Apparently there's rumours going around he's close to signing a new contract. Not sure if that means we'll have to pay a bit more for him or we move on to another target. Hopefully the latter as £18m is more than generous.
 
Redo91 said:
Personally I see no reason why he can't be the best left back in the world in the next 2-3 seasons. Alaba is barely playing there these days. Rodriguez is very good but not world class and is also a few years older than Shaw. The only thing that could hold Shaw back would be injuries and hopefully he will have more luck with them next season. The guy is a sure thing.

Edit: Sorry for going off topic.
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I think that Rodriguez and especially Alaba are quite more talented (especially in attacking department) and can't see past them two being the two best LB in the world for the next 10 years (obviously, Alaba might end up as midfielder if Pep stays in Bayern for too long). Shaw I think is a level below them.

Anyway, while Cafu would have been nice, Neville was great too. I see Shaw situation like that.

Clyne on the other side...If we sign him, I think that within 2 years we will look to sign a new RB.
 
Revan said:
From this comment, someone might think that he's fecking Roberto Carlos.

Anyway, I think that Shaw is quality. Not as good as Alaba when he was Shaw's age, and to be fair I don't expect him to challenge Alaba/Rodriguez for the best left back in thw world spot, but I think that he can be a very good player for us in the next 10-15 years. A left version of Gary Neville, with more pace and power.

I don't think that Clyne has half of Shaw's potential though.
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Tbh I think Shaw shows more potential than Alaba has done with 19. I hope he can stay more or less injury free next season.
Beside that Alaba is forced to play in midfield (for Bayern and Austrian national team) which does not suit him that great.
Atm I would rate Marcelo to be the best LB.

Anyway - nobody does want to sell Valencia but we need to do better on that position.
 
Revan said:
I think that Rodriguez and especially Alaba are quite more talented (especially in attacking department) and can't see past them two being the two best LB in the world for the next 10 years (obviously, Alaba might end up as midfielder if Pep stays in Bayern for too long). Shaw I think is a level below them.

Anyway, while Cafu would have been nice, Neville was great too. I see Shaw situation like that.

Clyne on the other side...If we sign him, I think that within 2 years we will look to sign a new RB.
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I completely agree that they are more talented now but I think there isn't much in it if you compare them to Shaw when they were his age. I'd certainly say Shaw is more talented then Rodriguez when he was 19. Midfield is Alaba's favoured position and I think he will end up there in long run regardless of how long Pep is there. Bernat is only young and a top LB in his own right while Alaba is probably a better CM than LB.

As for Clyne while I agree he isn't top class as I said earlier there really isn't any other alternatives. I'd have loved Danilo but that ship has sailed. Clyne is certainly a better RB than Valencia. I'm a huge fan of Rafael but he just can't be relied upon as he is made of glass.
 
Redo91 said:
I completely agree that they are more talented now but I think there isn't much in it if you compare them to Shaw when they were his age. I'd certainly say Shaw is more talented then Rodriguez when he was 19. Midfield is Alaba's favoured position and I think he will end up there in long run regardless of how long Pep is there. Bernat is only young and a top LB in his own right while Alaba is probably a better CM than LB.

As for Clyne while I agree he isn't top class as I said earlier there really isn't any other alternatives. I'd have loved Danilo but that ship has sailed. Clyne is certainly a better RB than Valencia. I'm a huge fan of Rafael but he just can't be relied upon as he is made of glass.
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I agree that Bernat is doing fine as LB. However, Alaba is certainly a better LB than CM.
 
Cnaiür urs Skiötha said:
Tbh I think Shaw shows more potential than Alaba has done with 19. I hope he can stay more or less injury free next season.
Beside that Alaba is forced to play in midfield (for Bayern and Austrian national team) which does not suit him that great.
Atm I would rate Marcelo to be the best LB.

Anyway - nobody does want to sell Valencia but we need to do better on that position.
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Marcelo is likely the best right now, but I was talking more for the young ones (actually Alaba at 2012-2013 probably was better than Marcelo ever was). Alaba was starting for Bayern when he was 18, there is no way than Shaw has been better this season (or the previous one) than Alaba on his first one. On the other side, it is quite difficult to know how things will happen. Prior to last season, Rodriguez was a relative unknown and then immediately became one of the best LB around, while this season he has been even better. If Shaw can make such fast progress, then it will be brilliant.

Anyway, many people have been impatient for Shaw. Be it the price tag or because this forum has been screaming for years how good Anderson, Rafael, Evans, Smalling, Jones, Cleverley, Welbeck will become with so far neither of them being that great (or even very good), and some people might think that Shaw is next on line. I wouldn't be surprised if he won't be a starter next season, but will be very surprised if he isn't one of the best left backs in the world (top 5 or so) within 3-5 years. People need to remain patient.

Valencia needs definitely an upgrade, but I think that Clyne will be only a slight upgrade.
 
Redo91 said:
I completely agree that they are more talented now but I think there isn't much in it if you compare them to Shaw when they were his age. I'd certainly say Shaw is more talented then Rodriguez when he was 19. Midfield is Alaba's favoured position and I think he will end up there in long run regardless of how long Pep is there. Bernat is only young and a top LB in his own right while Alaba is probably a better CM than LB.

As for Clyne while I agree he isn't top class as I said earlier there really isn't any other alternatives. I'd have loved Danilo but that ship has sailed. Clyne is certainly a better RB than Valencia. I'm a huge fan of Rafael but he just can't be relied upon as he is made of glass.
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Agree. But then Rodriguez has been quite unique, in making som tremendous progress within such a short period. By the beginning of last season, I doubt that many people outside of regular Bundesliga watchers knew who he was. By the end of it, he was widely regarded as one of the best left backs around. I don't remember someone developing that quicky since Pique/Busquets in Pep's debut season at Barca.

If Shaw can do that, it would be great. If not, we need to remain patient and remind ourselves that he is still younger than when Neville made his debute season for us. Even if he doesn't become a top LB for the next 3 years it is fine. 3 years from now, he'll be still only 22.
 
Señor said:
Apparently there's rumours going around he's close to signing a new contract. Not sure if that means we'll have to pay a bit more for him or we move on to another target. Hopefully the latter as £18m is more than generous.
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If he signs I new deal then I imagine he must know that none of the top 4 clubs are going to move for him in the summer.
 
RedRover said:
I disagree entirely. Very few players, at his age can come into the Premier League and perform to the level he did for Southampton. That is why a lot of people in the game rate him very highly and believe he's going to be one of England's best ever fullbacks. We've seen glimpses of it this year but moving on a big side under expecation of a huge fee is hard, especially when you're little more than a child.

Obviously £30 million is a lot of money. The fact is he's likely to play for United for at least 10 years (£3 million a year plus wages) and potentially 15 years. As with Rio Ferdiand (a world record fee for a defender at the time) he may prove to be sensible and worthwhile aquisition to have quality at left back for the forseeable future. Even in the event that he leaves its likely he would do so for a large fee, potentially in excess of what he costs with the way fees in football increase rapidly.

Its also the case that a chunk of that fee (if its actually correct rather than paper speculation) is, as with 99% of transfers, likely to be linked to performances and/or progression.

Buying a player for that sort of money is always a risk. The level of ability he's shown and his young age make it less of a risk than other players. Chelsea paid a significant chucnk for Felipe from Athletico (as an example) and he's ten years older.

The fact is players cost what they cost. Other top sides would have taken him at that fee. If you're going to moan about what young players cost then don't be surprised to see all the best talent go to rival clubs. As it is if the player makes sense in the short, medium and long term, for me it sensible to buy those kind of players rather than waste money on a scattergun approach and bring in a new player for a position every two to three seasons with all the hassle that goes along with it.
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Chelsea gave Southompton the finger because the fee they asked was absurd. No top side would pay that kind of money for a fullback of 19 years old except us because we always pay absurd fees for english players. Been the same with Jones and it is going to be same with Clyne.

Also the entire argument of Shaw staying with us for 10 years... how the feck do you know that ? He signed a contract for 5 years from which 1 year is gone not 10 years and certainly not 15 years. DDG also signed a contract he is running it out and if he wants at the end of it he holds all the cards to leave.

And i don't moan about paying top dollar for the best talents in the world but for £30m you buy a top talent like Hazard that grows out to be one of the absolute worldplayers in his position not a fat 19 year old fullback that can't even get a game ahead of Rojo. He hasn't been worth a penny of the transfer fee we paid for him and most people that don't look through red tainited glasses had seen that coming from miles away. 1 good year and boom £30m than the next can't even stay fit and when fit can't even get in the team because a left side centreback and a defensive midfielder have better performances than him on the position... Been a complete failure of a transfer !
 
Revan said:
From this comment, someone might think that he's fecking Roberto Carlos.

Anyway, I think that Shaw is quality. Not as good as Alaba when he was Shaw's age, and to be fair I don't expect him to challenge Alaba/Rodriguez for the best left back in thw world spot, but I think that he can be a very good player for us in the next 10-15 years. A left version of Gary Neville, with more pace and power.

I don't think that Clyne has half of Shaw's potential though.
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I know I was blasted last summer for saying Rodriguez looked like a better player than Shaw to me and we should have bought him for £20m at the time instead of £30m for Shaw.

Shaw is just massively overrated on here. I'd love to present some of those comments on here to some non-united fans and I don't think anybody would agree with them. Jezus every touch oozes class go get your eyes checked !

You are right however in saying Clyne is even worse than Shaw. For the record I also think Shaw can be a good to decent player if he realises his potential but not the kind of player some are already claiming him to be and certainly not worth the £30m price tag we paid for him...
 
NoArroJusBeta said:
I know I was blasted last summer for saying Rodriguez looked like a better player than Shaw to me and we should have bought him for £20m at the time instead of £30m for Shaw.

Shaw is just massively overrated on here. I'd love to present some of those comments on here to some non-united fans and I don't think anybody would agree with them. Jezus every touch oozes class go get your eyes checked !

You are right however in saying Clyne is even worse than Shaw. For the record I also think Shaw can be a good to decent player if he realises his potential but not the kind of player some are already claiming him to be and certainly not worth the £30m price tag we paid for him...
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You talking about Rodriguez? His first name is Ricardo.
 
Revan said:
Agree. But then Rodriguez has been quite unique, in making som tremendous progress within such a short period. By the beginning of last season, I doubt that many people outside of regular Bundesliga watchers knew who he was. By the end of it, he was widely regarded as one of the best left backs around. I don't remember someone developing that quicky since Pique/Busquets in Pep's debut season at Barca.

If Shaw can do that, it would be great. If not, we need to remain patient and remind ourselves that he is still younger than when Neville made his debute season for us. Even if he doesn't become a top LB for the next 3 years it is fine. 3 years from now, he'll be still only 22.
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Should never have paid £30m for him then. If you need to develop a player and invest time in him before he becomes world class and you need to pay £30m to get that player you clearly did something wrong. Either he is world class now and we paid £30m for a leftback that can be a good player for us now or we overpaid for a young player that ain't quite there yet. Clearly it is the latter.
 
Bubz27 said:
You talking about Rodriguez? His first name is Ricardo.
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Uhm I think there is some miss communication :confused:

Yes I'am talking about Ricardo Rodriguez from Wolfsburg who I wanted us to sign over Shaw last summer.

The Jezus you highlighted refers to Jezus Christ as in Jezus Christ, that comment (about Shaw oozing class with every move he makes) makes no sense at all.
 
NoArroJusBeta said:
Uhm I think there is some miss communication :confused:

Yes I'am talking about Ricardo Rodriguez from Wolfsburg who I wanted us to sign over Shaw last summer.

The Jezus you highlighted refers to Jezus Christ as in Jezus Christ, that comment (about Shaw oozing class with every move he makes) makes no sense at all.
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Oh, my bad. I read the conversation wrong.
 
NoArroJusBeta said:
Should never have paid £30m for him then. If you need to develop a player and invest time in him before he becomes world class and you need to pay £30m to get that player you clearly did something wrong. Either he is world class now and we paid £30m for a leftback that can be a good player for us now or we overpaid for a young player that ain't quite there yet. Clearly it is the latter.
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Agree (unless it is for some more important position like attacker). I also wanted Rodriguez more in the summer, cause he would have represented better value both for now and probably for future.

Saying that, I am happy that we signed Shaw. After Alaba (impossible to sign) and Rodriguez, I think that he's the best young left back arund and given time, he'll become very good. He's also English and most likely won't want to leave even after he becomes good enough to play for Madrid.
 
Revan said:
Agree. But then Rodriguez has been quite unique, in making som tremendous progress within such a short period. By the beginning of last season, I doubt that many people outside of regular Bundesliga watchers knew who he was. By the end of it, he was widely regarded as one of the best left backs around. I don't remember someone developing that quicky since Pique/Busquets in Pep's debut season at Barca.

If Shaw can do that, it would be great. If not, we need to remain patient and remind ourselves that he is still younger than when Neville made his debute season for us. Even if he doesn't become a top LB for the next 3 years it is fine. 3 years from now, he'll be still only 22.
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Ya that's a fair point about Rodriguez's rapid development. In saying that the fact that Shaw is a better player now than Rodriguez was at the same age would suggest that there is every chance that he could turn out to be an even better player. But ya I appreciate we can't know for sure at what rate Shaw will develop.

J-Stander said:
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That's strange. If we aren't in for Clyne then who are we after because we are surely signing a RB this summer.
 
sullydnl said:
If we don't get Clyne then who else are we likely to actually go for? We haven't been linked to too many RBs...
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I don't think we've made any official bids yet for a player. LvG said he had to act to get Memphis, because he was about to sign for PSG and that he normally doesn't buy players during a season. Memphis hadn't heard from van Gaal before - only that they had enquired PSV. LvG is keeping his transfers secret.

Therefore I don't think we've done anything more with other targets. We've probably just enquired them, asked to be informed about any potential deals so we can swoop in when needed, but otherwise wait untill the transfer window. Clyne can very well be on our list.
 
NL Max said:
I don't think we've made any official bids yet for a player. LvG said he had to act to get Memphis, because he was about to sign for PSG and that he normally doesn't buy players during a season. Memphis hadn't heard from van Gaal before - only that they had enquired PSV. LvG is keeping his transfers secret.

Therefore I don't think we've done anything more with other targets. We've probably just enquired them, asked to be informed about any potential deals so we can swoop in when needed, but otherwise wait untill the transfer window. Clyne can very well be on our list.
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Hopefully not
 
NL Max said:
I don't think we've made any official bids yet for a player. LvG said he had to act to get Memphis, because he was about to sign for PSG and that he normally doesn't buy players during a season. Memphis hadn't heard from van Gaal before - only that they had enquired PSV. LvG is keeping his transfers secret.

Therefore I don't think we've done anything more with other targets. We've probably just enquired them, asked to be informed about any potential deals so we can swoop in when needed, but otherwise wait untill the transfer window. Clyne can very well be on our list.
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Surely if we were interested though the lad would be told before he signed a new deal with his current club. it would be stupid of us to just sit there and let him double the fee by not having a word in his lug if LvG wants him.
 
Devil may care said:
Surely if we were interested though the lad would be told before he signed a new deal with his current club. it would be stupid of us to just sit there and let him double the fee by not having a word in his lug if LvG wants him.
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That tweet said we haven't bid, which I believe because van Gaal doesn't want to buy right now. If we did enquire he should know that we're interested, his agent might get a notification too from Woody if he's about to sign an extension.

Just tried to say van Gaal is not signing anyone right now unless he has to.
 
For all those not wanting him, who else is a better signing? I think I've read maybe one or two other names at most thrown around which hardly fills me with confidence in terms of alternative options.
 
septic said:
For all those not wanting him, who else is a better signing? I think I've read maybe one or two other names at most thrown around which hardly fills me with confidence in terms of alternative options.
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No idea, though it's not really our job to know given we're not scouts. It's fair enough to not want Clyne without having an alternative in mind.

Still, I suspect we'll sign him and he'll be fine, so whatever. I just hope we get it done quickly.
 
sullydnl said:
No idea, though it's not really our job to know given we're not scouts. It's fair enough to not want Clyne without having an alternative in mind.

Still, I suspect we'll sign him and he'll be fine, so whatever. I just hope we get it done quickly.
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If people are upset at signing Clyne, they'll be even more pissed if we sign some unknown from Ukraine or somewhere.
 
septic said:
If people are upset at signing Clyne, they'll be even more pissed if we sign some unknown from Ukraine or somewhere.
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If they've already made up their minds that Clyne isn't good enough then surely they'd prefer an unknown player as they'd at least have hope?
 
Moriarty said:
Remind me. Why did we pass on this lad when he was at Palace? I seem to recall us being keen on getting him then.
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No idea. Maybe he chose Southampton because of first team football? Or at the time we figured Rafael was the future.
 
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