Murtough's 2nd Summer | How did he do?

I don't know if it's fair to pin it exclusively on Murtough or not, but it has been a pretty underwhelming window. It felt like we had the chance to catch up a bit if we played our cards right but instead we've stood still.

The only incoming I'm confident in for this season is Onana as the bar had been set so low by De Gea in the last couple of years. Hojlund has the potential to do well but as it stands he's exactly that, potential. I wanted us take a different approach with the midfield so I'm unconvinced by the Mount signing, to put it mildly. The rest of our incomings just feel like a bit of a rushed mess so I don't even know how to rank them.

I'm glad we got reasonable fees for Henderson and Elanga but it's really disappointing to see the likes of Maguire and McTominay still at the club. We also should've been far more decisive on Greenwood. The club had to be stronger in their stance and should've made the decision to let him go a lot sooner. We really didn't cover ourselves in glory and now that's another one that looks like it might remain unresolved.
 
There are quite a lot of negative comments about Murtough that relate to prices and fees. These things fall under the purview of Director of Football Negotiations Matt Hargreaves don't they?

Anyway, from what I've seen it appears as though Ten Hag wanted a couple of years of mass upheaval to get the squad into a position whereby we aren't having to sign 6 players every summer. Once/should we get there, his influence on incoming will likely diminish, since right now he's clearly looking for players who he thinks can adapt quickly.

We've essentially made 3 'squad building' singings and 3 short term ones - maybe 4 and 2 depending on how Amrabat takes. We're obviously behind on where we'd like to be, but with the ownership as it is, I don't think there was much else we could do this summer.
 
Dannn411 said:
Murtough is not responsible for the quality of the targets signed. Even though that philosophy of 100% backing the manager with his players is stupid, Erik Ten Hag is the man who decides the targets by all accounts. So if your gripe is the quality of the players signed, then take that up with the manager. The only area where he should be judged is on the quality of the execution of the transfer plan.
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Well, yes.

But - absolutely - no.

If you absolve Murtough from buying low quality players, or any kind of players that don't work out for whatever reason, because that's what the "manager" wanted, you're effectively saying that he isn't actually a DOF (not in the sense implied by those of us who have been crying out for one ever since Fergie retired) - he's just some kind of glorified clerk, really, who signs the cheques based on whatever set budget is involved.

A DOF (it doesn't matter what exact title you give the fecker, but why not "director of football") should be above the "manager" (in traditional British football terms) in the hierarchy.

If Murtough actually is a DOF (again: in the sense implied above) he should have a very good idea about what our goals are (short, mid, long term), what sort of strategy we employ with regard to player recruitment, our overall "philosophy", etc. And he should absolutely not, per default, be approving any transfers that are not in line with the above even if the "manager" happens to fancy 'em for whatever reason.

Bottom line: what we're actually discussing here is whether United actually have a DOF (in the sense implied above). Or, alternatively, whether the club has moved away, in any meaningful sense, from the model which has been an absolute disaster ever since Fergie retired.
 
Dannn411 said:
Murtough is not responsible for the quality of the targets signed. Even though that philosophy of 100% backing the manager with his players is stupid, Erik Ten Hag is the man who decides the targets by all accounts. So if your gripe is the quality of the players signed, then take that up with the manager. The only area where he should be judged is on the quality of the execution of the transfer plan.
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He's literally football director. He should be massively influencing what the "philosophy" and "transfer plan" is, as well as executing it. He should be fighting to have more influence and give more power to people other than the manager if he's not happy with the amount of power the manager has.

I can't buy the idea that he's employed to sit there and not have an opinion or any influence on what players we bring in. If his role is to be handed a note with "go sign me player X" and he runs along saying "yes boss", we have a major problems. I don't believe that's the case though.
 
AngeloHenriquez said:
- Handling of Greenwood Situation (Awful)
- Failing to get £60m for Mctominay & Maguire (Awful)
- Overpaying for Hojlund by someway & prioritising an attacking centre mid (Awful)
- Selling academy players so cheap when we see countless others going for so much more, the young city lad that went for £45m has 0 PL goals and Elanga went for £15m and we celebrated it?
- Timing/ Overpaying and not concentrating on the biggest priorities

I don't want to point out "Improvement" on last year, we should have standards and they aren't being met at all.
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That's a bit grumpy, I think. In the long run, what will be remembered is the players brought in: Mount, Onana, Bayindir, Høilund, Amrabat, Evans, Regulión. Not all top signings, but I think I would taken that if asked in May.
 
Dominos said:
He's literally football director. He should be massively influencing what the "philosophy" and "transfer plan" is, as well as executing it. He should be fighting to have more influence and give more power to people other than the manager if he's not happy with the amount of power the manager has.

I can't buy the idea that he's employed to sit there and not have an opinion or any influence on what players we bring in. If his role is to be handed a note with "go sign me player X" and he runs along saying "yes boss", we have a major problems. I don't believe that's the case though.
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I understand you and I agree with you but if we were to judge Murtough from a philosophy standpoint then he'd have been a total disaster from the beginning because he has not at all behaved like a true independent DOF because we have nothing resembling a long-term independent plan for how we want to play football going forward.
 
Who would have thought someone with zero experience as a DOF and no actual network of agents/players across the game would perform poorly as a DOF at one of the biggest clubs in football
 
Revan said:
To be fair, they also had 2 UCL finals and 2 really strong (being in race until the last week) title challenges. That is 2 more big trophies and 4 more challenges than us during the same time. While having roughly half the net spent and a significantly lower wage bill.

They have done far better than us.
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And that’s okay, you’re a Liverpool fan. We don’t care. Go
Amir said:
They ran a brilliant City side very close for two more seasons and reached two more CL finals against Real Madrid, while playing brilliant football. I'm all for laughing at the scousers, but let's be real here: We can only dream of being as good as they've been in some of the recent seasons.

They haven't done things perfectly, but they've done things very well to reach that level. If we had done things as well, and then added what should be our bigger financial abilities, we could have achieved even more than them. Instead, we achieved far less.
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But we look forward, not back. They achieved the absolute minimum for the team they had. They’ve had klopp for 8+ years now and if we’ve achieved as little as he did then I will start toquestion ten Hag
 
IRELANDUNITED said:
And that’s okay, you’re a Liverpool fan. We don’t care. Go


But we look forward, not back. They achieved the absolute minimum for the team they had. They’ve had klopp for 8+ years now and if we’ve achieved as little as he did then I will start toquestion ten Hag
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Oh look, someone who hates hearing the truth. First sign of delusion, something we used to mock RAWK for years. Great job to see us descending to the same level we used to mock, being consistently shit with other teams winning more than us while we delude ourselves otherwise.
 
el3mel said:
Oh look, someone who hates hearing the truth. First sign of delusion, something we used to mock RAWK for years. Great job to see us descending to the same level we used to mock, being consistently shit with other teams winning more than us while we delude ourselves otherwise.
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It’s okay, really. I promise it will be ok.
 
Honestly, bad.

We went into the window with the #1 priority being an established striker. We signed Mount for £55m first, then screwed up the GK situation meaning it was now priority and then spent a fortune on a keeper. Then spent well over the odds for an unproven though potentially great striker.

4 deals today, 2 of which could have been done at any time. Evans has been with us all Summer, Amrabat had been waiting all summer for Utd and we got him an hour before the deadline. That's shambolic.

A back up keeper, no issue there. Small fee. Regulion, only playing 11 games last season and couldn't make the Spurs squad only came due to injury and not being able to afford anyone else in the position.

Departures were a shambles. Donny still here, McT still here, Maguire being the biggest shambles of the summer departures still here, Bailly still here. Players told they had no real hope and were not wanted, only for bids rejected and the players are happy to stay and take the money on stupid contracts they should never have been on in the first place. Greenwood out on loan in the dying seconds of the window. Henderson finally gone is good. Fred, eh I would have liked him staying over McT.
It felt like the moves today all could have been wrapped up a while ago and this was only a stunt to make it look like we were busy right up to the end.

Ten Hag didn't really get any of his key targets and we look worse off than last season. Amrabat is a bit of light at the end but a shambles again how we approached that deal. And we will lose 2 of the signings to the African cup of nations at a key time in the season.
 
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It sometimes feels like we don’t need a scouting network. Just buy really expensive players known to everyone and also some guys that Ten Hag knew in the Netherlands.
 
5/10 at best, to be frank. Didn’t get a CB and another striker. All sales were very cheap, and we still have Maguire, Bailly, McTominay, VDB, Martial not disposed of.
 
Still, it’s good that Logan Pye, Jurado, Alvaro Fernandez, McNeil and Mengi all left today
 
I just can’t believe we still have the likes of Bailly, DVB and Maguire after this window. Overall pretty darn good job with transfers, but still a lot of deadweight to move
 
jasT1981 said:
Honestly, bad.

We went into the window with the #1 priority being an established striker. We signed Mount for £55m first, then screwed up the GK situation meaning it was now priority and then spent a fortune on a keeper. Then spent well over the odds for an unproven though potentially great striker.

4 deals today, 2 of which could have been done at any time. Evans has been with us all Summer, Amrabat had been waiting all summer for Utd and we got him an hour before the deadline. That's shambolic.

A back up keeper, no issue there. Small fee. Regulion, only playing 11 games last season and couldn't make the Spurs squad only came due to injury and not being able to afford anyone else in the position.

Departures were a shambles. Donny still here, McT still here, Maguire being the biggest shambles of the summer departures still here, Bailly still here. Players told they had no real hope and were not wanted, only for bids rejected and the players are happy to stay and take the money on stupid contracts they should never have been on in the first place. Greenwood out on loan in the dying seconds of the window. Henderson finally gone is good. Fred, eh I would have liked him staying over McT.
It felt like the moves today all could have been wrapped up a while ago and this was only a stunt to make it look like we were busy right up to the end.

Ten Hag didn't really get any of his key targets and we look worse off than last season. Amrabat is a bit of light at the end but a shambles again how we approached that deal. And we will lose 2 of the signings to the African cup of nations at a key time in the season.
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great post to the point and true
 
Pretty awful. Mount and Hojlund are very poor value signings who barely improve the team. Jury is still out on Onana. Maguire and McTominay shouldn't still be here. Amrabat is a good signing but he should have been signed a month ago.

The new owners will give Murtough and Arnold the boot and it will be no less than they deserve.
 
Poor to be honest. Classic united - secure top 4 then sit back.

When the dust settled on last season, with current personnel and form we probably needed better players at keeper, rightback, deeper midfield and striker. Proper world beaters to push on.

we’ve done 1 in my opinion. Not slating Hojlund but I think he's a few years from his best. Cant see him banging 25/30 goals in though i would love him to. The backup goalkeeper and temporary left back business is fine. Mount signing about the last thing we needed.

outgoings a bit meh again - still got bailly! and Mctominay, maguire and DVB are all still here. Be an achievement for us to retain a top 4 place this year in my opinion

pitch that against rival business and
 
I would say decent window. We certainly had a profile of the type of player ETH wanted and we have bought accordingly. Mount purchase made no sense but ETH wanted him for some specific reason. We have backed our manager and have paid relatively decent transfer fees
 
Great window. Definitely not a poor one as others are saying. They just want to blame the leadership for every fecking thing. Better to ignore them.

Signed 2 midfielders, 1 forward and a GK.

And No, not taking peanuts for McT or Maguire isn't a negative. Maguire wanted a pay off while McT is easily valued above 30m+ . That's the market.
 
Bought the players the manager wanted, failed to sell the players the club needed to. 7/10.
 
jasT1981 said:
Honestly, bad.

We went into the window with the #1 priority being an established striker. We signed Mount for £55m first, then screwed up the GK situation meaning it was now priority and then spent a fortune on a keeper. Then spent well over the odds for an unproven though potentially great striker.

4 deals today, 2 of which could have been done at any time. Evans has been with us all Summer, Amrabat had been waiting all summer for Utd and we got him an hour before the deadline. That's shambolic.

A back up keeper, no issue there. Small fee. Regulion, only playing 11 games last season and couldn't make the Spurs squad only came due to injury and not being able to afford anyone else in the position.

Departures were a shambles. Donny still here, McT still here, Maguire being the biggest shambles of the summer departures still here, Bailly still here. Players told they had no real hope and were not wanted, only for bids rejected and the players are happy to stay and take the money on stupid contracts they should never have been on in the first place. Greenwood out on loan in the dying seconds of the window. Henderson finally gone is good. Fred, eh I would have liked him staying over McT.
It felt like the moves today all could have been wrapped up a while ago and this was only a stunt to make it look like we were busy right up to the end.

Ten Hag didn't really get any of his key targets and we look worse off than last season. Amrabat is a bit of light at the end but a shambles again how we approached that deal. And we will lose 2 of the signings to the African cup of nations at a key time in the season.
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That's a whole lot of Rubbish you cooked together there. Honestly. What is the "screwed up the GK situation"? You mean to say that we should have given De Gea a new contract, and not signed Onana? To me, it looks like most of the fans are happy with the switch. There's a lot of activity on deadline day, and if you look at what teams are active on the last day, it's the Manchester Cities, Newcastles and Barcelonas. Playing a bit of a waiting game, perhaps.

What do you mean when you say Hag didn't get any of his key targets? But he did.
What a sad sticky porridge of defeatism, you cooked there. Sounds like something I recently heard on a You-Tube channel.
 
Dve said:
That's a whole lot of Rubbish you cooked together there. Honestly. What is the "screwed up the GK situation"? You mean to say that we should have given De Gea a new contract, and not signed Onana? To me, it looks like most of the fans are happy with the switch. There's a lot of activity on deadline day, and if you look at what teams are active on the last day, it's the Manchester Cities, Newcastles and Barcelonas. Playing a bit of a waiting game, perhaps.

What do you mean when you say Hag didn't get any of his key targets? But he did.
What a sad sticky porridge of defeatism, you cooked there. Sounds like something I recently heard on a You-Tube channel.
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At one point we didn't have a first choice keeper at all. De Gea contract situation handling was shambolic.

Upgrade? Maybe, I'm not 100% convinced but it was not an urgent priority and we ended up making it one. Funds could have gone elsewhere like a proven striker which we needed.

I'm not unhappy with the switch, I just didn't' see it as a priority going into the window which we ended up making it be because of the usual incompetence behind the scenes.

Outside of Amrabat who really is improving our outfield team?

Are you really telling me Mount, Evans and a 20 year old unproven striker were his key targets? Onana wasn't even mentioned until the De Gea fall out. Amrabat, sure we'd been after him all Summer, I'll give you that and it is a good signing. I'm not saying Ten Hag didn't want them, I am saying they were not his key targets going into the summer window.

Are you honestly saying I am talking rubbish when I say the handling of outgoings was shambolic too?
 
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Blood Mage said:
Pretty awful. Mount and Hojlund are very poor value signings who barely improve the team. Jury is still out on Onana. Maguire and McTominay shouldn't still be here. Amrabat is a good signing but he should have been signed a month ago.

The new owners will give Murtough and Arnold the boot and it will be no less than they deserve.
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He hasn't even kicked a ball for us yet.
 
Can't complain. Brought the players eth wanted. No doubt about it.

Just not sure why or how we bungled selling Maguire and Scott.

Sofyan should have been brought earlier but looking at how we had no money, it's understandable.

Also did the right thing by moving away from de gea and bring in a sweeper keeper. It will pay off in the long run.
 
jasT1981 said:
Honestly, bad.

We went into the window with the #1 priority being an established striker. We signed Mount for £55m first, then screwed up the GK situation meaning it was now priority and then spent a fortune on a keeper. Then spent well over the odds for an unproven though potentially great striker.

4 deals today, 2 of which could have been done at any time. Evans has been with us all Summer, Amrabat had been waiting all summer for Utd and we got him an hour before the deadline. That's shambolic.

A back up keeper, no issue there. Small fee. Regulion, only playing 11 games last season and couldn't make the Spurs squad only came due to injury and not being able to afford anyone else in the position.

Departures were a shambles. Donny still here, McT still here, Maguire being the biggest shambles of the summer departures still here, Bailly still here. Players told they had no real hope and were not wanted, only for bids rejected and the players are happy to stay and take the money on stupid contracts they should never have been on in the first place. Greenwood out on loan in the dying seconds of the window. Henderson finally gone is good. Fred, eh I would have liked him staying over McT.
It felt like the moves today all could have been wrapped up a while ago and this was only a stunt to make it look like we were busy right up to the end.

Ten Hag didn't really get any of his key targets and we look worse off than last season. Amrabat is a bit of light at the end but a shambles again how we approached that deal. And we will lose 2 of the signings to the African cup of nations at a key time in the season.
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Nailed it. I appreciate you taking the time to write this because I do not have the patience to deal with the head firmly in the sand brigade.
 
What's the point of doing this now?
Only for moaners to keep jacking off.
 
Scattered and hectic again, unprepared with Greenwood, Maguire and embarrassingly disrespectful to De Gea. Awful negotiating again, positive spin in here will make you believe it's been a great summer. Facts are, we bought a backup keeper, a spurs reject for 3 months and a relegated cb we let go 8 years ago on the final day. Oh yeah and Amrabat on loan with fee to buy later, yeah it's gone smooth and to plan. Go Glazer bots, prove me wrong.
 
Sarni said:
How do you come to that conclusion? Do you reckon Glazers are massive fans of both?

We accepted West Ham’s bid but Glazers went and convinced Maguire to stay? This theory just doesn’t make any real sense.
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Maguire - Glazers didn’t approve paying him off. I think two figures were reported, 7m and 15m. 15m was about the full difference in wages on his remaining United contract so 7m is half that. I would have paid the 7m.

Reports coming out from the club was that we valued McT at 45m, we didn’t get a bid anywhere close to that figure, and Glazers didn’t want to lower that valuation despite it being completely ridiculous.

Nobody in their right mind will pay Maguire 190k/week or 45m for McT. There are about a thousand better ways to spend that money. I was surprised that West Ham even bade 30m, to be honest.

And no, Glazers only love themselves and nothing/no one else.
 
Amrabat only happened because Mount got injured similar to Sabitzer, he only happened because Eriksen got injured. Regulion is in similar situation.

I dont like it when the club is reactive than proactive. Every squad needs decent backups.
 
jasT1981 said:
Honestly, bad.

We went into the window with the #1 priority being an established striker. We signed Mount for £55m first, then screwed up the GK situation meaning it was now priority and then spent a fortune on a keeper. Then spent well over the odds for an unproven though potentially great striker.

4 deals today, 2 of which could have been done at any time. Evans has been with us all Summer, Amrabat had been waiting all summer for Utd and we got him an hour before the deadline. That's shambolic.

A back up keeper, no issue there. Small fee. Regulion, only playing 11 games last season and couldn't make the Spurs squad only came due to injury and not being able to afford anyone else in the position.

Departures were a shambles. Donny still here, McT still here, Maguire being the biggest shambles of the summer departures still here, Bailly still here. Players told they had no real hope and were not wanted, only for bids rejected and the players are happy to stay and take the money on stupid contracts they should never have been on in the first place. Greenwood out on loan in the dying seconds of the window. Henderson finally gone is good. Fred, eh I would have liked him staying over McT.
It felt like the moves today all could have been wrapped up a while ago and this was only a stunt to make it look like we were busy right up to the end.

Ten Hag didn't really get any of his key targets and we look worse off than last season. Amrabat is a bit of light at the end but a shambles again how we approached that deal. And we will lose 2 of the signings to the African cup of nations at a key time in the season.
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Good post and agree with most of it except that Ten had didn't get any of his targets. Mount, Onana, Hojlund are definitely his targets. The rationale behind these targets will be seen with time.
 
tenpoless said:
Amrabat only happened because Mount got injured similar to Sabitzer, he only happened because Eriksen got injured. Regulion is in similar situation.

I dont like it when the club is reactive than proactive. Every squad needs decent backups.
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It will take a revolution at the club to become proactive. I miss those days when we bought grade A talents like Rooney and Ronaldo. Today when a Bellingham moves clubs, we are not even in the reckoning.
 
tenpoless said:
Amrabat only happened because Mount got injured similar to Sabitzer, he only happened because Eriksen got injured. Regulion is in similar situation.

I dont like it when the club is reactive than proactive. Every squad needs decent backups.
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Thats made up bullshit. The journalists have said Amrabat has been a target long before mount got injured.
 
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