Awful window. Onana is the only good deal. The rest are just crap.
Murtough's 2nd Summer | How did he do?
- Thread starter VP89
- Start date
My score for the summer window as a whole, (not on Murtough) would be a 3/10 I think, here's my working out.
Incomings
Onana - +1 I personally would have prefered Raya (cheaper and I think he's just as good) but I'm not going to complain about getting Onana, hopeful he'll be good for us.
Hojlund - +1 The more I think about this one, and the more you look at other fee's being sloshed around this window, I actually don't think the fee is as mad as first thought. He's young, loads of potential, and he's an actual striker - so whilst still a punt, think its a good one.
Mount +0 - I've never liked Mount, i've got loads of posts slagging him off for his England/Chelsea performances, so I can't just suddenly pretend he's amazing. I also think the amount we spent on him is absolutely ridiculous.... but ETH wanted him and we've backed the manager, so I won't go full -1... but I'm tempted.
Reguilon +0 - It's an emergency left back loan so meh,
Bayindir +0 - Again, hard to be that fussed about a reserve GK.
Amrabat +2 - Personally delighted with this one, I think he'll be great and it's a real advantageous deal for us, so it can have an extra point
Not signing another forward -1 - Even with Hojlund, still think we're a bit light up top, and essentially means we still have to rely on Martial a bit - a situation I can't wait for us to no longer be in.
Outgoings
Not selling Maguire -2 - I realise we tried, and we accepted an offer, but him still being here is pretty crap
Not selling McT -1 - I'm less bothered about this one, but he probably should have gone
Elanga +1 - Thought we got a decent whack for him
Henderson +1 - Same
Fred +0 - I suppose it's good we sold him, but we didn't exactly get a lot? I dunno
DDG +1 - Good that we moved on from him
Greenwood +1 - The way it handled was obviously dreadful but the outcome is the right one in my opinion - which I think is the main thing.
Selling a bunch of youngsters +0 - Glad we got a lot off the books, but feels like we barely got anything for them?
VDB (probably) Loaned and not sold -1 - Annoying we can't find a way to offload him.
So that is a score of 3/10.
Incomings
Onana - +1 I personally would have prefered Raya (cheaper and I think he's just as good) but I'm not going to complain about getting Onana, hopeful he'll be good for us.
Hojlund - +1 The more I think about this one, and the more you look at other fee's being sloshed around this window, I actually don't think the fee is as mad as first thought. He's young, loads of potential, and he's an actual striker - so whilst still a punt, think its a good one.
Mount +0 - I've never liked Mount, i've got loads of posts slagging him off for his England/Chelsea performances, so I can't just suddenly pretend he's amazing. I also think the amount we spent on him is absolutely ridiculous.... but ETH wanted him and we've backed the manager, so I won't go full -1... but I'm tempted.
Reguilon +0 - It's an emergency left back loan so meh,
Bayindir +0 - Again, hard to be that fussed about a reserve GK.
Amrabat +2 - Personally delighted with this one, I think he'll be great and it's a real advantageous deal for us, so it can have an extra point
Not signing another forward -1 - Even with Hojlund, still think we're a bit light up top, and essentially means we still have to rely on Martial a bit - a situation I can't wait for us to no longer be in.
Outgoings
Not selling Maguire -2 - I realise we tried, and we accepted an offer, but him still being here is pretty crap
Not selling McT -1 - I'm less bothered about this one, but he probably should have gone
Elanga +1 - Thought we got a decent whack for him
Henderson +1 - Same
Fred +0 - I suppose it's good we sold him, but we didn't exactly get a lot? I dunno
DDG +1 - Good that we moved on from him
Greenwood +1 - The way it handled was obviously dreadful but the outcome is the right one in my opinion - which I think is the main thing.
Selling a bunch of youngsters +0 - Glad we got a lot off the books, but feels like we barely got anything for them?
VDB (probably) Loaned and not sold -1 - Annoying we can't find a way to offload him.
So that is a score of 3/10.
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There are posts in this thread lambasting the guy for not getting top dollar for Elanga and at the same time slagging him for not accepting a below market offer for Mctominay, never change Redcafe
Hasn’t yet sold Donny, Maguire, McTominay, or Bailly. I don’t care what the excuses are, that’s dismal.
I have no issue with the Elanga sale, but holding on to McTominay when there was a decent offer on the table is criminal.
He has no interest in going. He’s a bum. Or rather, he’s happy to sit on it until the 87th minute.
A solid clown/10.
It turned into a bit of a shit show towards the end after a promising start and before today I’d have said a 6/10 but with the addition of Amrabat I’d now give it a 7/10. Upgraded the GK, filled the striker position and I think Mount will come good once he settles and with Amrabat coming in we’re now a lot more balanced in midfield.
Mount, Onana, Hojlund, Bayindir, Amrabat, Regulon, Evans.
7 signings, he’s been a busy boy I’ll give him that.
7 signings, he’s been a busy boy I’ll give him that.
He’s done well with tight restrictions.
- Hojlund : Top CF target signed.
- Mount : Top CM target signed.
- Onana : Top GL target signed.
GK Position:
Henderson and De Gea shifted out, removing 500k p/w off our books, and replaced the Onana and that other fella. Net 26m spent on GK department and significantly upgraded, while a net 350k saved on wages. A
Defence:
Seems like there were no significant DF targets this summer due to FFP restrictions. Failed to shift out Maguire, but got rid of Bailly, Telles, Jones and Tuanzebe. Reacted quickly to snap up Reguilon when Shaw got injury days before deadline. C+
Midfield:
Debate can be had about the players targeted, but they were clearly the players the manager wanted. On that basis, signed the Manager’s top target, Mount, early in the window, for a decent fee from a direct rival. Couldn’t ask for more from the DoF. Pushed the Amrabat deal to the brink due to the FFP limitations, but got the deal done. So give him an A grade for the incomings (the way they were handled). Shifted our Fred for an okay fee, probably should’ve gotten a decent fee and sale for McTominay, and failed to move on VdB. So should have done better there. B
Attack:
Had one clear remit. Sign a striker that fits the manager’s style in a hugely inflated market experiencing a dearth of available talent. Delivered Hojlund, the manager’s number one target, early and without much fuss. All for a fee that when placed in the context of other moves across Europe this summer, looks very reasonable. Didn’t get dragged into a long, Drawn out saga with Levy over Kane. So has learned from what he’s seen before. Sold Elanga for 15-20m, which is a good fee for a fringe player. Would’ve liked to have seen more aggression in moving Martial on early and getting a second striker in. A-
Future planning:
Hojlund, Mount and Onana, the big deals are all young, relative to their positional longevity. So top marks there. But very disappointed with the overall level of speculation and intent shown on signing young prospects. Haven’t seen any 17-18 year old project players come in for reasonable fees that could be future stars, and that’s always something I expect at United. Instead we’ve seen Chelsea do it in spades. FFP limitations may be the reason, but shifting on a couple more fringe first testers would’ve allowed us to make several low cost punts in the market on emerging talents. B-
Overall I give him something between a B+ and A- for his work. He brought in the players the manager wanted for good fees, shifted out some serious deadwood, reduced the wage bill, got deals done early, and reacted well to a last minute crisis.
Still should’ve done better with moving on some fringe or unwanted players. We lack proper, top quality cover at CB, and we didn’t make any speculative purchases on emerging talent.
How well the players do, and whether they are the right ones, I will mainly put on the managers shoulders.
- Hojlund : Top CF target signed.
- Mount : Top CM target signed.
- Onana : Top GL target signed.
GK Position:
Henderson and De Gea shifted out, removing 500k p/w off our books, and replaced the Onana and that other fella. Net 26m spent on GK department and significantly upgraded, while a net 350k saved on wages. A
Defence:
Seems like there were no significant DF targets this summer due to FFP restrictions. Failed to shift out Maguire, but got rid of Bailly, Telles, Jones and Tuanzebe. Reacted quickly to snap up Reguilon when Shaw got injury days before deadline. C+
Midfield:
Debate can be had about the players targeted, but they were clearly the players the manager wanted. On that basis, signed the Manager’s top target, Mount, early in the window, for a decent fee from a direct rival. Couldn’t ask for more from the DoF. Pushed the Amrabat deal to the brink due to the FFP limitations, but got the deal done. So give him an A grade for the incomings (the way they were handled). Shifted our Fred for an okay fee, probably should’ve gotten a decent fee and sale for McTominay, and failed to move on VdB. So should have done better there. B
Attack:
Had one clear remit. Sign a striker that fits the manager’s style in a hugely inflated market experiencing a dearth of available talent. Delivered Hojlund, the manager’s number one target, early and without much fuss. All for a fee that when placed in the context of other moves across Europe this summer, looks very reasonable. Didn’t get dragged into a long, Drawn out saga with Levy over Kane. So has learned from what he’s seen before. Sold Elanga for 15-20m, which is a good fee for a fringe player. Would’ve liked to have seen more aggression in moving Martial on early and getting a second striker in. A-
Future planning:
Hojlund, Mount and Onana, the big deals are all young, relative to their positional longevity. So top marks there. But very disappointed with the overall level of speculation and intent shown on signing young prospects. Haven’t seen any 17-18 year old project players come in for reasonable fees that could be future stars, and that’s always something I expect at United. Instead we’ve seen Chelsea do it in spades. FFP limitations may be the reason, but shifting on a couple more fringe first testers would’ve allowed us to make several low cost punts in the market on emerging talents. B-
Overall I give him something between a B+ and A- for his work. He brought in the players the manager wanted for good fees, shifted out some serious deadwood, reduced the wage bill, got deals done early, and reacted well to a last minute crisis.
Still should’ve done better with moving on some fringe or unwanted players. We lack proper, top quality cover at CB, and we didn’t make any speculative purchases on emerging talent.
How well the players do, and whether they are the right ones, I will mainly put on the managers shoulders.
Usual shitshow that is enough to put us in the top 4 hat.
Pretty sure Bailly is still at the club mate
I think he did alright, people put all the blame on him when it's clear ETH has had a huge influence on our decisions good and bad. He's also had FFP to balance as well as our shit squad to help rebuild.
Let's remember he is not the scout and is not choosing the players that come in.
Let's remember he is not the scout and is not choosing the players that come in.
He's done well with the tools he was given.
Can't force players to leave and can only spend within the means given to him.
Can't force players to leave and can only spend within the means given to him.
To be fair, they also had 2 UCL finals and 2 really strong (being in race until the last week) title challenges. That is 2 more big trophies and 4 more challenges than us during the same time. While having roughly half the net spent and a significantly lower wage bill.
They have done far better than us.
Honestly only a whinging idiot would think this is the case.
Absolute bollocks mate from top to bottom, and let me break it down for you
Nope, clearly only happens at United. Now imagine United having said yes. Then you would have bitched about us selling Maguire for a net 22 milion pounds. Which kind of segways into the next point
First of Elanga is Swedish, not English, as such there is no English tax for him. And unlike McTominnay, he was a fringe player that played even less minutes than Pellistri. Getting 15 million for him was a good deal.
As far as McTominay goes: clearly there was interest in him from West Ham, Fulham and Bayern. The reason that didn't materialize is because we have ETH wanted to keep him. Nothing to do with Murtough.
Have you heard of a certain Frenkie De Jong that we chased all of last summer by any chance? All the reputable sources have confirmed that we had an agreement with Barca except for *WAIT FOR IT* the player not wanting to go because he thought he was owed wages.
Nope, clearly only happens at United. Now imagine United having said yes. Then you would have bitched about us selling Maguire for a net 22 milion pounds. Which kind of segways into the next point
First of Elanga is Swedish, not English, as such there is no English tax for him. And unlike McTominnay, he was a fringe player that played even less minutes than Pellistri. Getting 15 million for him was a good deal.
As far as McTominay goes: clearly there was interest in him from West Ham, Fulham and Bayern. The reason that didn't materialize is because we have ETH wanted to keep him. Nothing to do with Murtough.
6/10 - It was well thought out and I can clearly see the strategy with getting the 3 priorities in early before then concentrating on outs to strengthen the squad elsewhere. However, Martial is still a key player which is just batshit absurd to me.
I think he's our backup striker. If that makes him key, I'm not sure.
His performance needs to be put in context.
Murtough is not responsible for the quality of the targets signed. Even though that philosophy of 100% backing the manager with his players is stupid, Erik Ten Hag is the man who decides the targets by all accounts. So if your gripe is the quality of the players signed, then take that up with the manager. The only area where he should be judged is on the quality of the execution of the transfer plan.
So how has he done?
The Good:
Got Erik Ten Hag his main targets on a relatively tight budget compared to what we're used to working with.
Got £15m for Elanga.
The Bad:
Harry Maguire and Scott Mctominay. I could have told you as far back as February that Maguire and Mctominay were surplus to requirements. Yet, another summer has passed and they are somehow still here. That is a massive failure on Murtough's part. The lack of proactiveness to start shopping them well ahead of the window opening and the lack of awareness and understanding to take what the market is giving because neither player's value will be going up while they are bench riders is appalling. Now we are destined to get even less than what we were offered this summer for both players. The inability to sell both also meant we missed out on getting a good right CB and probably another midfielder.
Cost-effectiveness of signings. We overpaid for Mount and Hojlund and that is on Murtough. The second Chelsea rejected that 45+5 offer for Mount, we should have walked away. Instead Murtough allowed Chelsea to extract £10m extra for a player they had no need for. How can you be in a position of strength and still lose?
The poor return on player sales. Other clubs would have gotten twice the amount we got on our player sales this summer.
Murtough is not responsible for the quality of the targets signed. Even though that philosophy of 100% backing the manager with his players is stupid, Erik Ten Hag is the man who decides the targets by all accounts. So if your gripe is the quality of the players signed, then take that up with the manager. The only area where he should be judged is on the quality of the execution of the transfer plan.
So how has he done?
The Good:
Got Erik Ten Hag his main targets on a relatively tight budget compared to what we're used to working with.
Got £15m for Elanga.
The Bad:
Harry Maguire and Scott Mctominay. I could have told you as far back as February that Maguire and Mctominay were surplus to requirements. Yet, another summer has passed and they are somehow still here. That is a massive failure on Murtough's part. The lack of proactiveness to start shopping them well ahead of the window opening and the lack of awareness and understanding to take what the market is giving because neither player's value will be going up while they are bench riders is appalling. Now we are destined to get even less than what we were offered this summer for both players. The inability to sell both also meant we missed out on getting a good right CB and probably another midfielder.
Cost-effectiveness of signings. We overpaid for Mount and Hojlund and that is on Murtough. The second Chelsea rejected that 45+5 offer for Mount, we should have walked away. Instead Murtough allowed Chelsea to extract £10m extra for a player they had no need for. How can you be in a position of strength and still lose?
The poor return on player sales. Other clubs would have gotten twice the amount we got on our player sales this summer.
Agreed. This place has turned into the shitter at this point and the mods are at fault for all of this.
This whole bollocks of "free speech and let people say what they want" falls flat on it's face. On one hand you can't criticize the vaccines, covid measures or say anything bad about Ukraine because it will earn you a ban. Apparently it doesn't abide by community guidelines which is fair enough.
At the same time you can call our players idiots and all the bad names under the sun, call for the sacking of the manager 3 game in, 2 of which we won and nothing happens *ON A MANCHESTER UNITED FORUM* and nothing will be done. Jus reread that one more time. You can insult a Man Utd player on a Man Utd forum, and that is A OK.
Apparently abusing and bullying your own players and manager is part of the community guidelines.
I might have to take a permanent break from this place
He’s “second” choice striker to a 20 year old kid who the club have briefed needs time to adapt and will be eased in gently. Sounds rather key to me considering we play 60 games a season.
steady on, everything's fine
We likely accepted bids for 2 players that didn't want to leave but somehow its his fault they didn't leave 
I'm not so sure about "eased in gently". There's even talk of him starting on Sunday. Martial cannot be classed as "key", purely due to how unavailable he is.
that’s a very fair assessment and pretty much summed up my thoughts exactly. I’m in disbelief that people are rating this window 5+/10 and above.
I don't dare to assess our windows yet. Let's see if there are more surprises.
However, reading some comments here... he is not to blame for issues his predecessor created. For example, had Maguire and McT been under more adequate salaries, probably they would have accepted other club's offers.
However, reading some comments here... he is not to blame for issues his predecessor created. For example, had Maguire and McT been under more adequate salaries, probably they would have accepted other club's offers.
Weird window. Some of it good. Some of it completely bizarre. I'm torn between a 6 or a 7 out of 10.
Hard to say, probably some sort of middling to decent grade provisionally. I know it's a forum and there's nothing really riding on throwing out an opinion but my honest view is that aside from Onana there is some fairly speculative stuff in there. I think it's a bunch of signings that I wouldn't nail my colours to the mast on them, I'm rather content to just see how they do instead of giving bold predictions based on little. It's not like signing Casemiro or Varane where reasonably speaking they should be expected to do well.
Onana - I think we did go out and buy one of the best available on this one, if all the signings were of this kind of certainty and quality I'd be happy giving John Murtough a 8 or 9/10.
Mount - We have to unlock form from seasons past. What is his level, is it the former level, or is it the last years worth of form for club or country? Where does he play effectively, what are his strengths apart from pressing and vague notions about flexibility and tactical options? There are many questions here which I don't really like to see in a signing unless they're simply that the player is young/raw and needs to develop as that's expected from a certain age profile. I don't really want to see suitability and form questions around a mid 20s player so I have big concerns here.
Hojlund - Quite excited by him and the market was extremely difficult. So yes, I would say I am quite happy the club have gambled on a young, exciting prospect with a lot of tools and this is the most exciting player for me as the potential is huge, he could be anything. But realistically we have to do the groundwork on this one to turn him into an established PL striker.
Amrabat - Pleased with it but it's a huge, huge step up relatively late in his career and the PL is a different beast from Holland and latterly Italy. It doesn't neccessarily worry me but let's see what his level is. Can he move the needle or will he just be okay? Not sure, it's a very pragmatic signing rather than going out and securing the absolute best available.
Reguilon - Not much to say on this one, it's what it says on the tin, an emergency signing not something that was planned for so whatever. Hard to assess John Murtough on something where the market dictates who is available on loan within a budget, it's just a reactionary thing.
Sales - Okay. I think we would have liked to see Maguire and McTominay go, or at least one of them. Hasn't secured any sizeable fees as a result of this which has probably been costly. But he has picked up some moderate fees for moderate talents.
Onana - I think we did go out and buy one of the best available on this one, if all the signings were of this kind of certainty and quality I'd be happy giving John Murtough a 8 or 9/10.
Mount - We have to unlock form from seasons past. What is his level, is it the former level, or is it the last years worth of form for club or country? Where does he play effectively, what are his strengths apart from pressing and vague notions about flexibility and tactical options? There are many questions here which I don't really like to see in a signing unless they're simply that the player is young/raw and needs to develop as that's expected from a certain age profile. I don't really want to see suitability and form questions around a mid 20s player so I have big concerns here.
Hojlund - Quite excited by him and the market was extremely difficult. So yes, I would say I am quite happy the club have gambled on a young, exciting prospect with a lot of tools and this is the most exciting player for me as the potential is huge, he could be anything. But realistically we have to do the groundwork on this one to turn him into an established PL striker.
Amrabat - Pleased with it but it's a huge, huge step up relatively late in his career and the PL is a different beast from Holland and latterly Italy. It doesn't neccessarily worry me but let's see what his level is. Can he move the needle or will he just be okay? Not sure, it's a very pragmatic signing rather than going out and securing the absolute best available.
Reguilon - Not much to say on this one, it's what it says on the tin, an emergency signing not something that was planned for so whatever. Hard to assess John Murtough on something where the market dictates who is available on loan within a budget, it's just a reactionary thing.
Sales - Okay. I think we would have liked to see Maguire and McTominay go, or at least one of them. Hasn't secured any sizeable fees as a result of this which has probably been costly. But he has picked up some moderate fees for moderate talents.
OK to the people who wanted Kane would they have accepted him as only signing out of interest
My score is purely on incomings but if I am taking into account not selling Maguire & McTominay then it drops down to around 4 overall
A fair assessment?
"like he tried to sell Maguire and totally get why he couldn't but I don't like him being here".
How is that a fair assessment on Murtough? He's not the one who handicapped himself with shit players on high wages
Obviously we've made some signings so it can't be all be bad but there's so many negatives.
- Pissed about offering De Gea a new contract despite him being dreadful and then changed our minds and then had him waiting for weeks not knowing if we were keeping him or not.
- Mount in my opinion was the wrong signing for our midfield and gives us no balance, an inefficient use of resources.
- Made a 3rd and final "take it or leave it" offer to Chelsea for Mount which got rejected. Briefed to the press we were walking away from the deal and went back a week later and gave them more money
- Took us so long to get the Hojlund deal done it was too late to have any pre-season games with us (even if he had been fit).
- We received a £60m offer for Maguire and Mctominay and they're both still United players
- VDB, Bailly and Greenwood are still here as I type
- Martial is still here
- Was part of a management structure that thought it was a good idea to take 18 months to decide whether Greenwood should play or not, decided he should come back into the team and for some reason wanted to announce this right near the end of the transfer window. Didn't have the foresight to see the public backlash. When public backlash came, done a U-turn. So effectively left themselves 2 weeks to try sell a player where we have no negotiating power because we've got no credible threat that we could keep him since we've now announced he can never play for us again. And we've highlighted the public opposition to him by trying to bring him back, which has scared off any potential buyers. If we'd have just tried to sell at the beginning of the window we likely could have got a fee for him from a foreign club. And for people who will say it's not his fault, any senior figure is guilty by association for such incompetence.
- Signed Amrabat so late in the window he'll miss the first 4 league games of the season.
All in all we've still got almost all of the deadwood we had at the start of the summer and haven't improved the team enough to be anywhere near a title challenge.
- Pissed about offering De Gea a new contract despite him being dreadful and then changed our minds and then had him waiting for weeks not knowing if we were keeping him or not.
- Mount in my opinion was the wrong signing for our midfield and gives us no balance, an inefficient use of resources.
- Made a 3rd and final "take it or leave it" offer to Chelsea for Mount which got rejected. Briefed to the press we were walking away from the deal and went back a week later and gave them more money
- Took us so long to get the Hojlund deal done it was too late to have any pre-season games with us (even if he had been fit).
- We received a £60m offer for Maguire and Mctominay and they're both still United players
- VDB, Bailly and Greenwood are still here as I type
- Martial is still here
- Was part of a management structure that thought it was a good idea to take 18 months to decide whether Greenwood should play or not, decided he should come back into the team and for some reason wanted to announce this right near the end of the transfer window. Didn't have the foresight to see the public backlash. When public backlash came, done a U-turn. So effectively left themselves 2 weeks to try sell a player where we have no negotiating power because we've got no credible threat that we could keep him since we've now announced he can never play for us again. And we've highlighted the public opposition to him by trying to bring him back, which has scared off any potential buyers. If we'd have just tried to sell at the beginning of the window we likely could have got a fee for him from a foreign club. And for people who will say it's not his fault, any senior figure is guilty by association for such incompetence.
- Signed Amrabat so late in the window he'll miss the first 4 league games of the season.
All in all we've still got almost all of the deadwood we had at the start of the summer and haven't improved the team enough to be anywhere near a title challenge.
Yeah think he’s done well. Improved our squad without silly money. Lot of wages saved. Two games won out of three and in the other game we had a defo penalty turned down.
Overall- great time to be a United fan.
Overall- great time to be a United fan.
He's missed the first 4 league games because we're impossibly slow at getting things done, that has to lose him a point.
It's my assessment of the window, not on Murtough
It was actually a post I did for a thread I was going to start saying "rate the window" then I saw this thread and it's basically the same thing
Fair enough I was more on the lines of Murtoughs performance but I see the overlap