He assembled the most expensive squad in history, and he's only got one title to show for it. I like his show though 'stay champion!'. Or something.
Moyes To Succeed Ferguson Anyone?
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He assembled the most expensive squad in history, and he's only got one title to show for it. I like his show though 'stay champion!'. Or something.
Won the league in 2012, the Cup in 2011, the Supercup 2012. After eight years Real Madrid was back in the semi finals of the CL with him in his first year. Got to the Semis in the following years as well.
Pretty good record tbh.
It was mostly assembled before he got there, in fairness. I think Mourinho would've had the sense to not sign Kaka, at least.
The cup and supercup? You're serious aren't you?
Was his side really that expensive ? Ronaldo and Kaka arrived before he did and surely comprised most of the money Madrid spent during that period.
And at least Mou put his 'hunger for trophy' into action.
And Benzema too.
Coentrao and Modric both cost him €30m though. Ozil, Di Maria and Khedeira were not particularly expensive buys.
Hard to say which is harder. But they are certainly different, and I imagine you get people who are good at one, and others who are good at the other. But no reason he shouldnt be good at both. As you say, he should be able to attract a better caliber of player, if he is not intimidated by sanctioning cheques worth £30m or whatever. Which Wenger, for example, seems to struggle with.
He has categorically stated that he has a problem with Casillas because he thinks he's bigger than the club. SAF wouldnt tolerate it either and the player would be off. Mourinho doesnt have that luxury. I dont see whats wrong with him in this case. If anything, the squads he manages really gel with him and do anything for him.
He hasnt smashed up any place either.
Well, from what Fergie said in the past, it's the scouting team that find players based on recommendations etc. Fergie only ever went to give them the final once-over, which I'm sure Moyes is more than capable of doing.
Ehmm..yeah?
And I'm not a fan. But to say he's not a winner is just dumb.
Certainly more than a certain David Moyes.
One person mentioned those two names once on the page you posted this on.
I love the way you guys keep going on about how anyone who isn't excited by Moyes are just obsessed with Mourinho and Klopp. it's getting ridiculous now.
Fair enough. However the SC is a kin to the CS and their cup is hardly a barometer of success.
I just think the club are looking as much at what happens with Mourinho after 5-10 years, rather than just what happens next season and the season after.
He'd have a big red cross through his name if it was me deciding. I wouldn't want him anywhere near getting the job.
It's fine for Chelsea or Real. They sack their managers every year, they bully their way to success with oil money or a history of borderline corruption. They can do whatever the feck they want. It hasn't worked out nearly so well for Inter Milan.
United's success is built on the back of continuity and basically Fergie being in place for a very long time. There isn't another Ferguson, but there is a lot of the hard work he's done already in place for someone else to build on. It's not something that can just recover if someone comes in and smashes it all up because they got bored one morning.
He'd have a big red cross through his name if it was me deciding. I wouldn't want him anywhere near getting the job.
It's fine for Chelsea or Real. They sack their managers every year, they bully their way to success with oil money or a history of borderline corruption. They can do whatever the feck they want. It hasn't worked out nearly so well for Inter Milan.
United's success is built on the back of continuity and basically Fergie being in place for a very long time. There isn't another Ferguson, but there is a lot of the hard work he's done already in place for someone else to build on. It's not something that can just recover if someone comes in and smashes it all up because they got bored one morning.
Winning the cup always is. The SC isnt I agree but when talking about winning things I'd throw it in there.
You'd rather have Moyes?
You make it sound like building a model train track. How exactly would he smash everything up in a bored morning?
Than Mourinho, easily.
He wouldn't be my first choice if I could pick anyone, but he'd be on the list.
I said this yesterday, but whoever replaces Ferguson will be nowhere near as good as Ferguson. People just need to realise that and deal with it.
Even Alex Ferguson was nowhere near as good as Sir Alex Ferguson when he first took charge of the club.
Why are you acting like its such a crazy decision? I mean, Fergie and the top people at United picked him. So clearly you are either massively under rating the guy or we've all gone mad.
You know what will be weird?? When it gets to the end of next season and it's really tight at the top (squeeky bum time if you will) and the only people who don't have the experience of a high-pressure title run-in are our manager and Wilfred Zaha...
More seriously, I think it wouldn't be a terrible idea if he made Giggs his assistant (player assistant.. sorry Mike...)... In terms of smoothing over a transition period, there's no better or well respected man for the job is there? Though I have no idea on his actual ability to do such a job...
More seriously, I think it wouldn't be a terrible idea if he made Giggs his assistant (player assistant.. sorry Mike...)... In terms of smoothing over a transition period, there's no better or well respected man for the job is there? Though I have no idea on his actual ability to do such a job...
I'm convinced it was going to happen.
I get what you're saying, but I don't agree with this argument. I've said it a few times in various places on this forum, but 1986 SAF was far more qualified to take over Manchester United then 2013 Moyes... and we're a much bigger club now then we were back then.
Smashes it all up? Porto is hardly smashed up is it? Is Chelsea smashed up? Is Inter smashed up? He was just a bloody good manager and the one following him wasnt able to get the same success as he had with the teams.
Granted he left Inter at the perfect time. But this was the only occassion he left a club in a bit of a mess.
He said if he comes back to the PL he would stay there as this is where he wants to be. He said that from the beginning of his Real Madrid carreer.
So maybe he is in for settling down and if he is I think it's a shame it's not for us.
And I'm not even his biggest fan, but not because he changed clubs a lot but because of his antics. But he's a really good manager with a big personality.
Don't know what to do with a Moyes who runs away from the press.
You say that, but it's not clear whether we have continuity because that's the club culture, or just because we've had two amazing managers. When our managers were non-amazing they lasted the normal sort of period.
Everton have had continuity with Moyes because he's been a good manager. But it's not necessarily intrinsic to him. If he's not much good at United, then we'll feck him off.
Now it's true that we stuck with Fergie when he wasn't winning things - though barely - and it's a bloody good thing too. But that's no guarantee we will with anyone else. Fergie was transforming the club - sorting the youth set-up, the drinking culture, redeveloping the squad, and the club had the foresight to see that that would bring rewards. Coming in to an already successful side you're unlikely to get that leeway, whoever you are.
You lot make it sound like the manager somehow comes in anc clicks his fingers and suddenly everything at the club acts as if they themselves created it.
Fergie's spent 26 years building United into what it is. It works and it's succesful...and it is like a train track in that one person coming in with their own ideas and not liking it can very easily and very quickly rip it apart...and then we're fecked, Liverpool style.
The Mourinho obsession on here is mind boggling. He's about as suited for running United as Mario Balotelli would be to run a fireworks shop....you'd get a fantastic, chaotic display...then you'd have to build another shop with the money you don't have.
At best it'd be a short term success, and at worst a long term absolute fecking disaster.
Dont think there's one person in the entire forum who doesnt realize that. But we could do better than Moyes, there's no doubt about that. I mean, we really are in a position to get any manager in the world right now bar a few and we go for David fecking Moyes.
Regarding the Moyes vs Mourinho thing, I've always been of the opinion that Mourinho wouldnt do a 20yr spell here but more importantly, he'd be someone big enough, successful enough and with the required skill set to help us deal with what is the biggest change the club has faced in a long time.
What he'd have done is kept us successful and be someone players respect. He could have stayed here for half a decade or so and then even if he left, the pressure on the guy coming ni would be nowhere close to what it is now. It could also be the time when someone like an Ole or Giggs were ready for a management role at a club like ours. Mourinho isnt stupid, he wouldnt expect us to hand him a huge kitty or do whatever he pleases.
I just dont know how someone like a Moyes will deal with all the pressure that he'l have to handle. Mourinho would have relished it. Take the forum as an example, we're underwhelmed by Moyes coming in. It'd be the same for the players. Imagine going from working with Sir Alex to David Moyes. It'd have been much better for all our players right from the top ones to the young players to have a lesser jump in terms of the kind of person they work with.
But noodle, we also weren't fourth bottom in the league back then when Alex Ferguson took over too.
Gotta say, with our current club structure we should be looking for the best candidate, Moyes is a good manager without a doubt but with our current super stars, financial status etc... Its a whole new world for him and rightly the fans have should be able to pick the current top managers around the world which rightly so the names Mou, Klopp, Anchellotti etc.. have been called out heck maybe even Capello will be linked at one stage.
However, if the board decides for Moyes, then we just accept the risk and move on...
I'm just saying your personal bias on a certain manager isn't actually helping at this stage. Mou and Klopp might bring the CL in a few years, who knows ? We certainly have the potential to be up there every year with our current squad so lets just all wait and see.
Gotta say, with our current club structure we should be looking for the best candidate, Moyes is a good manager without a doubt but with our current super stars, financial status etc... Its a whole new world for him and rightly the fans have should be able to pick the current top managers around the world which rightly so the names Mou, Klopp, Anchellotti etc.. have been called out heck maybe even Capello will be linked at one stage.
However, if the board decides for Moyes, then we just accept the risk and move on...
I'm just saying your personal bias on a certain manager isn't actually helping at this stage. Mou and Klopp might bring the CL in a few years, who knows ? We certainly have the potential to be up there every year with our current squad so lets just all wait and see.
Phelan?
Seriosuly though, I trust SAF's judgement but I wont lie about it, I am underwhelmed at us picking Moyes when we could have literally had any manager bar a few. Just read the my last post if you want my views on why I dont want moyes.
Still waiting for the examples of Mourinho actually smashing clubs up and ruining their long-term prospects.
So much man love for Jose.
People need to look at their own club for a second here. He just doesnt fit the profile, doubt he was even considered on this occassion.
People need to look at their own club for a second here. He just doesnt fit the profile, doubt he was even considered on this occassion.
There are non. It's a myth with Mourinho.
Just because he left it doesnt mean the clubs were smashed up. The only one struggling after him was Inter Milan but they are half back on course as well.
Also I doubt he would "destroy" what was built within 26 years of SAF. Every manager will want to bring in his new ideas. To become a toy of directors won't work.
Doing that doesnt mean a total revolution though.
But that's exactly the point. I'm sure Mourinho knew that SAF would stay in the club. And I'm not sure those 2 would work together. Both big personalities and Mourinho has always struggled with people interfering.
It remains to be seen how much influence SAF will have on Moyes. I'm not sure it would be a good idea but Gill said he will let him enough space. This will be the most interesting aspect for me.
Another myth that's just not true is that Mou needs a lot of money to win things. He certainly used it when it was there but with Inter and Porto he had much less budget than United have and still won. So that wouldnt be the problem neither.
How do you know any of them are available though? Mourinho looked nailed on for Chelsea before the announcement. Klopp has continually re-iterated that he wants to stay at Dortmund and his work there is still incomplete. Ancelotti has been linked with Real and might cost a lot anyways to prize away from PSG.
And not all of them may have even wanted to join. And who could even blame them? The one who takes over is on a hiding to nothing and it's a lose-lose situation. Do well and it's all Fergie's work and if you do badly you're reputation will get tattered. I thought Benitez moving to Inter was the wrong move but but this situation is off the scale
My thoughts on David Moyes haven't changed at all since last year when we were discussing the prospect of his being appointed the Manchester United manager:
I remain convinced that Moyes is the best man for the United job.
I remain convinced that Moyes is the best man for the United job.
There are definitely aspects of Mourninho that are badly suited to United. In particular, he never shuts the feck up. Fergie used the press judiciously in the main, Mourinho seems to use it as his shrink. It used to take the pressure off his players, but not so much now that he slags the players off to the press...
Also, while it's not true that his teams play boring football, they have tended to be very much defence-first.
What does it for me though is this very specific circumstance of Fergie leaving. It's a potentially very hazardous time for the club. Almost any other manager would go in there trying to convince himself he could fill Fergie's shoes. Mourinho is a big enough personality that he'll believe he can do better than Fergie. Or at least, he'll radiate that belief, whether it's true or not. That's the difference.
And if it only lasted three years, I don't see that as the catastrophe you do.
Mind you. I don't see Moyes as a disaster either. He's a very good manager and may well prove up to the task of keeping us up there, even if there's very little chance of maintaining the degree of success we've grown used to.
I don't think we will stick with Moyes as it goes, because I don't think the fans will give him a chance. Too many people will be throwing their toys around because we didn't sign Mourinho or bring Elvis back from the dead or something.
This is what I always thought would happen when Fergie leaves. We'd try and replace him with someone who isn't a circus clown, but the entitlement Fergie's installed in us all as fans will make it impossible for anyone who takes over.
Just look at the comments in here. Moyes must be the first football manager in history to fail at managing a club, before the club have even appointed him...the main criticism against him seems to be that Mourinho exists, which isn't actually a criticism as much as it is spoiltness.
Exactly. SAF was a proven winner both domestically and in Europe before he came here. This club is currently more successful so why are we lowering those standards now?
This is his 3rd season. Its not like he stayed there for 10 years and won only once. He definitely has closed the gap with Barca in terms that Barca were ripping Real apart before he got there. That club is a circus for still supporting players like Casillas and Ramos over their manager.
I think that's silly. Ferguson's just retired, it's natural for people to have a favourite in mind to take over. We're spoilt alright, but I don't think wanting what we see as the best candidate for the job is a manifestation of that. Most people will get behind Moyes once he arrived.
In fact, having just read cider's posts, I'm already warming to him...
He'll be given a chance I'm sure. People will support him as do I although I don't want him as the next United manager.
And when talking about circus clowns. SAF himself wasnt the calmest person around was he? Especially in his early days. Winding people up, playing with the press, diflacting their attention on him to avoid them putting too much pressure on the players. Exactly what Mourinho does.
As SAF said he's very similar to him when he was younger.
That's also why many wanted him.
And now we got a very very calm guy, not very charismatic, who's done a decent job at a bottom half of the table club in the PL. Is it because SAF still wants to have a say? Is it because Mourinho really is too much of a personality? Or is it really because our staff and SAF see so much potential in Moyes?
I hope it's the latter, time will tell.
I don't think it'll be as bad as you suggest (and I wold say most of the criticisms for Moyes stem from his managerial history, not other candidates) and people will get behind him when/if it is made official.
But even if they don't immediately, good managers can make fans give them a chance. Look at AVB at Spurs, the press definitley wanted him out, and a fair few fans didn't want him there either... but by and large he's turned that around now to the point where, even if he doesn't get CL qualification this year, he'll still be there next year.
If we're in a title challenge under Moyes by March next year (and we're fully capable of doing that), then people will probably be behind him... if we're not then yeah, there could be a problem (Though I hope it isn't... CL qualification should be a mimimum target next year really).
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