Moyes To Succeed Ferguson Anyone?

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ciderman9000000 said:
Why?
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because he's a no-mark in europe and would get found out for a good 3-4 years.

look how long it took fergie to figure out europe consistently and he still says we underachieved.

moyes..ffs, as i said, when JM gets sacked is RM going to get on the blower to gollum? :lol:

or when heyenckes leaves i'm sure Bayern's choice will be to look towards Moyes
 
Irwinwastheking said:
The difference is, you put no value in keeping a team consistently placed in a very competitive PL year after year on a shoestring. I do.
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For the record I think Moyes is a decent manager, but the shoestring budget is a bit of a myth. He's by no means had fortunes to spend but how many PL teams can spend £15 million or so on a Fellaini?

He also generally is able to keep his best players because its well known that Everton pay well. Again, a lot of managers don't have that luxury.

For me he needs to prove himself in Europe and move onto a bigger club. All well and good doing well when nobody expects it - totally different to winning year in year out when you have to.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
The difference is, you put no value in keeping a team consistently placed in a very competitive PL year after year on a shoestring. I do.
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I put a value in the ability to do that, but I don't believe that value equates to ability to manage the best teams in the world. You could say the same about the value of saving clubs consistently from relegation that other managers failed. It doesn't mean they can manage the best teams in the world.
 
I'd be happy with Moyes. He hasn't a hope of getting the job, but I'd like if he did.

As for Mourinho: I think this season is a blight on his record. A country mile behind Barcelona in the league with one of the most expensively-assembled squads in history.
 
Zarlak said:
I put a value in the ability to do that, but I don't believe that value equates to ability to manage the best teams in the world. You could say the same about the value of saving clubs consistently from relegation that other managers failed. It doesn't mean they can manage the best teams in the world.
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Yet SAF, the world's leading expert on football management, seems to think he can. Hmmm...
 
VoetbalWizard said:
because he's a no-mark in europe and would get found out for a good 3-4 years.

look how long it took fergie to figure out europe consistently and he still says we underachieved.

moyes..ffs, as i said, when JM gets sacked is RM going to get on the blower to gollum? :lol:

or when heyenckes leaves i'm sure Bayern's choice will be to look towards Moyes
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If only Moyes had access to every single European game over the last five years, maybe he could unlock this footballing enigma.

What would be a management disaster in Europe, not getting out the group like last year I guess?
 
VoetbalWizard said:
because he's a no-mark in europe and would get found out for a good 3-4 years.

look how long it took fergie to figure out europe consistently and he still says we underachieved.

moyes..ffs, as i said, when JM gets sacked is RM going to get on the blower to gollum? :lol:

or when heyenckes leaves i'm sure Bayern's choice will be to look towards Moyes
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:lol: Such a childish way of looking at it. We can make our own decisions without wondering if Real Madrid will approve.

You're missing part of the point as well - Moyes knows the league and the players, that's part of the attraction and doesn't translate to foreign clubs.
 
My choice would be Moyes. An aspect to think about which should be discussed is the salary the various candidates would expect. I imagine Moyes would do it for not much, under 5 million a year while I imagine Pep and Jose would demand 10+.
 
Colin129 said:
Great way to run United that.
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Its not the sole reason I'd chose Moyes, but all other points have been discussed really. Just adding in another factor which should be taken into consideration, the difference in salary could mean a vital extra player. That could make more difference than a marginal benefit in the manager.
 
Fiskey said:
Its not the sole reason I'd chose Moyes, but all other points have been discussed really. Just adding in another factor which should be taken into consideration, the difference in salary could mean a vital extra player. That could make more difference than a marginal benefit in the manager.
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How exactly? You gonna buy him and pay him in fresh air?

You get what you pay for. There's a reason why the likes of Pep and Jose can command £10 million a year.

£5 million pounds a year is buttons to a club like United. Besides, finish one place higher and you make that money up anyway - never mind what a decent run in Europe generates.
 
RedRover said:
How exactly? You gonna buy him and pay him in fresh air?

You get what you pay for. There's a reason why the likes of Pep and Jose can command £10 million a year.

£5 million pounds a year is buttons to a club like United. Besides, finish one place higher and you make that money up anyway - never mind what a decent run in Europe generates.
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What do you mean by this? If we have a limited finances pool, which there is good reason to assume that we do, then 5 million a year saved on a manager could go towards paying a new player.

5 million a year difference is also conservative, I think Mourinho is on 14 million as things stand.
 
Fiskey said:
What do you mean by this? If we have a limited finances pool, which there is good reason to assume that we do, then 5 million a year saved on a manager could go towards paying a new player.

5 million a year difference is also conservative, I think Mourinho is on 14 million as things stand.
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Interesting stuff here, Moyes was 20th highest paid manager in Europe last season & top 6 in England.

http://footballspeak.com/post/2012/05/05/Top-20-Highest-Paid-Players.aspx
 
Fiskey said:
Its not the sole reason I'd chose Moyes, but all other points have been discussed really. Just adding in another factor which should be taken into consideration, the difference in salary could mean a vital extra player. That could make more difference than a marginal benefit in the manager.
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There is a marginal difference between Mourinho and Moyes? :lol:
 
I'm not a big fan of Moyes, but there is no denying he always had to sell before he could buy over the last ten years. Since 2004 he has an approximate net spend of under 10m... it's actually quite amazing Everton can compete anywhere considering clubs like Stoke spent a fortune for top half finishes. Everton are seriously hindered by their stadium too, very little matchday revenue and no new ground to move forward.
 
SirAF said:
There is a marginal difference between Mourinho and Moyes? :lol:
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Maybe, Moyes has done pretty much as well as anyone could have expected of him at the clubs he's been at. What you'd be paying Mourinho for is the increased level of certainty of his capabilities of managing a top club.
 
Fiskey said:
Maybe, Moyes has done pretty much as well as anyone could have expected of him at the clubs he's been at. What you'd be paying Mourinho for is the increased level of certainty of his capabilities of managing a top club.
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But this is the whole thing about him, he's stuck there forever & not been considered for other top jobs either here or abroad, Spurs specifically springs to mind.

As I said before I admire his loyalty, but he's not done anything in the game. SAF won in Europe with Aberdeen ffs, but it still took him several years to bring success to a club which hadn't had any success, other than the odd FA Cup, for years & years. If Moyes had won in Europe with Everton, then it might be worth talking about, otherwise no way!
 
Colin129 said:
But this is the whole thing about him, he's stuck there forever & not been considered for other top jobs either here or abroad, Spurs specifically springs to mind.

As I said before I admire his loyalty, but he's not done anything in the game. SAF won in Europe with Aberdeen ffs, but it still took him several years to bring success to a club which hadn't had any success, other than the odd FA Cup, for years & years. If Moyes had won in Europe with Everton, then it might be worth talking about, otherwise no way!
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It was a different era in which Ferguson won European trophies with Aberdeen, I just don't think that it really would have been possible for Moyes to have done so in this era so I don't think that is a standard we should be judging him by.

I also think that just because Spurs don't seem to have made any attempt to hire him that we should therefore say that he is not a manager capable of managing at the top level. There were probably two transitions in which he could have been considered, the Redknapp and the Villas Boas transitions, in the first instance they needed a man to come in and turn around a horrendous run of results, something in which Redknapp specialises. In the second they may have gone for Villas Boas as he was out of contract and therefore much cheaper, who's to say.

Other than that there really haven't been that many transitions which would have been a step up for him.
 
Fiskey said:
Its not the sole reason I'd chose Moyes, but all other points have been discussed really. Just adding in another factor which should be taken into consideration, the difference in salary could mean a vital extra player. That could make more difference than a marginal benefit in the manager.
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:wenger: we are not that fecking stint ffs
 
Fiskey said:
Maybe, Moyes has done pretty much as well as anyone could have expected of him at the clubs he's been at. What you'd be paying Mourinho for is the increased level of certainty of his capabilities of managing a top club.
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Im fulfilling the expectations of managing well in my daughters u-14 matches for years, pick me!
 
Fiskey said:
What do you mean by this? If we have a limited finances pool, which there is good reason to assume that we do, then 5 million a year saved on a manager could go towards paying a new player.

5 million a year difference is also conservative, I think Mourinho is on 14 million as things stand.
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The suggestion was that by paying Moyes £5 million rather than paying a top manager £10 million you could by another player with what you save, which I disagree with.

Regardless I maintain you get what you pay for. World class managers want world class wages - and if that keep United at the top, winning trophies and generating huge sums of money as a result then the Glazers will be happy to pay it.

Moyes may be a top manager but he needs to prove it at a bigger club. Everton fans seem to be happy finishing mid table each year, and that's fine for them but he's under little pressure. Would be interesting to see what he can do elsewhere.
 
Its not just 5 million, its 5 million a year over suppose a 3-5 year contract. That's 15 - 25 million, and if its not a clear and decisive choice then that level of investment is surely significant, and as I say that's a conservative estimate given what's known about someone like Mourinho's previous salaries. I'm surprised that's such a controversial opinion.
 
RedRover said:
The suggestion was that by paying Moyes £5 million rather than paying a top manager £10 million you could by another player with what you save, which I disagree with.

Regardless I maintain you get what you pay for. World class managers want world class wages - and if that keep United at the top, winning trophies and generating huge sums of money as a result then the Glazers will be happy to pay it.

Moyes may be a top manager but he needs to prove it at a bigger club. Everton fans seem to be happy finishing mid table each year, and that's fine for them but he's under little pressure. Would be interesting to see what he can do elsewhere.
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It would be, as a United fan I would love to see him at somewhere like Spurs so that we could get more information as to his abilities. Should that not be the case by the time we are looking for a new manager, I for one think that he has shown us enough to at least be considered.
 
Colin129 said:
But this is the whole thing about him, he's stuck there forever & not been considered for other top jobs either here or abroad, Spurs specifically springs to mind.

As I said before I admire his loyalty, but he's not done anything in the game. SAF won in Europe with Aberdeen ffs, but it still took him several years to bring success to a club which hadn't had any success, other than the odd FA Cup, for years & years. If Moyes had won in Europe with Everton, then it might be worth talking about, otherwise no way!
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Interesting to note his "loyalty" - may be to do with the £80k a week wages. Everton pay well, and he's left to get on with his job without seemingly being expected to really push on. It's a good job for him, secure with a high wage. Not hard to see why he stays.
 
Fiskey said:
It would be, as a United fan I would love to see him at somewhere like Spurs so that we could get more information as to his abilities. Should that not be the case by the time we are looking for a new manager, I for one think that he has shown us enough to at least be considered.
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Perhaps he has - but better candidates are available for me, and in my opinion United need to go for the very best.
 
was listening to the radio last week and one of the hosts had seats near the dugouts at an Everton game and he was saying how much Moyes controls the players from the sidelines, like a puppet master.
"pass it now. turn. cut back in. play it long ....."

I've not paid that much attention to him on the sidelines but if he was like that at United I don't think it'd work out too well.


edit: I did like his take on Fellaini's headbutt. he made no bones about it and said that they'd take whatever punishment was given to them.
of course I think that'll benefit them and perhaps lessen any suspension or fine that may result out of it.
but whether or not that was his motive I admired the straight forward way he handled it.
better that than the :wenger: attitude.
 
Fiskey said:
Its not just 5 million, its 5 million a year over suppose a 3-5 year contract. That's 15 - 25 million, and if its not a clear and decisive choice then that level of investment is surely significant, and as I say that's a conservative estimate given what's known about someone like Mourinho's previous salaries. I'm surprised that's such a controversial opinion.
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That's a controversial statement

You'd find people laughing at you for good matter

We're Manchester United, we're not owned by sugar daddies, but to think that we would have gone for 2nd tier manager because we were worried about the wages are totally absurd.

By your rationale , plus the marginal benefit, we could do wonders with sacking SAF and replace him with Phelan? That'll save up more than 5M / year, which we can buy players with.

Seriously, there's 101 things you can blame the management, or suspect them of doing, but to think that they would not sign Mourinho or Pep once SAF retires because "They cost 5M / year more than Moyes" is laughable

It's one thing to state moyes is a good manager, and what he have achieved, etc. but then again, if we eventually getting him as the next manager, it wont be because we wanna save that wages to buy 1 vital player :lol:
 
I think we should stop the speculation as to who might succeed Sir Alex, the club have earlier this year indicated that they have potential successor's identified. Having said that i wouldnt discount Moyes as a candidate.

He is an astute and accomplished manager and the only real thing lacking in his CV is winning trophies. Consider Brendan Rogers at Liverpool, unproven yet he is managing at one of the biggest clubs in the world, anything is possible in football.
 
Fiskey said:
Its not just 5 million, its 5 million a year over suppose a 3-5 year contract. That's 15 - 25 million, and if its not a clear and decisive choice then that level of investment is surely significant, and as I say that's a conservative estimate given what's known about someone like Mourinho's previous salaries. I'm surprised that's such a controversial opinion.
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Again - £20 to £25 million is what probably you'd lose by exiting the CL at the first hurdle - never mind what you lose in prize money. The club turns over a few million every home game.

You end up like Arsenal going down that route - lose the best and try to replace them on the cheap - you end up with a Giroud instead of an RVP.

To replace Fergie is the biggest managerial appointment probably in the history of football - I doubt that they "right man" will simply be the cheapest option. The Glazers know the club needs to continue to be succesful for the facts and figures to stack up. And that's why I think they'll pay what they have to to get the right manager for what is obviously a very attractive job.
 
Nathan said:
I think we should stop the speculation as to who might succeed Sir Alex, the club have earlier this year indicated that they have potential successor's identified. Having said that i wouldnt discount Moyes as a candidate.

He is an astute and accomplished manager and the only real thing lacking in his CV is winning trophies. Consider Brendan Rogers at Liverpool, unproven yet he is managing at one of the biggest clubs in the world, anything is possible in football.
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That's the thing... one of the allegedly biggest clubs in the world being managed by some relatively unproven quantity? Do we want to take the risk? We have gone down that road before post Busby -- didn't exactly cover ourselves in glory for a few years.

You need proven quality.

Logical choice: Mourinho;
Romantic choice: Pep
 
Colin129 said:
But this is the whole thing about him, he's stuck there forever & not been considered for other top jobs either here or abroad, Spurs specifically springs to mind.

As I said before I admire his loyalty, but he's not done anything in the game. SAF won in Europe with Aberdeen ffs, but it still took him several years to bring success to a club which hadn't had any success, other than the odd FA Cup, for years & years. If Moyes had won in Europe with Everton, then it might be worth talking about, otherwise no way!
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You keep saying this.......How do you know? Whats to say he hasnt been considered and the Everton board have denied permission from an approach, or that he has been offered positions he has turned down? Not everything makes it into the papers........
 
sglowrider said:
That's the thing... one of the allegedly biggest clubs in the world being managed by some relatively unproven quantity? Do we want to take the risk? We have gone down that road before post Busby -- didn't exactly cover ourselves in glory for a few years.

You need proven quality.

Logical choice: Monumental bellend;
Romantic choice: Quitter with no stamina
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Fixed
 
I'd fecking hate it if we hired Pep. Dunno why, but I really don't think he's Manchester United material. He's a bit too quiet and can't take the heat. Seems more a tactician than a real leader, which is what we need.

Plus, I was always on Mourinho's side in his battles with Pep. Think I'd find it hard to like him now.
 
Nathan said:
I think we should stop the speculation as to who might succeed Sir Alex, the club have earlier this year indicated that they have potential successor's identified. Having said that i wouldnt discount Moyes as a candidate.

He is an astute and accomplished manager and the only real thing lacking in his CV is winning trophies. Consider Brendan Rogers at Liverpool, unproven yet he is managing at one of the biggest clubs in the world, anything is possible in football.
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Yea. Let's follow the Liverpool model. It's already a huge success.
 
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