Moyes So Far!

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You're so annoying. Most managers haven't won a thing in their career, Klopp didn't win a single trophy before moving to Dortmund and Guardiola wasn't even a proper manager before he got the job at Barcelona. If you genuinely think that Manchester United board don't think success is important then you're even more clueless than I thought. It's a fecking football club, how is it supposed to stay on top and remain profitable if it's not competitive?


You have to take it individually.

Klopp came at a time when Dortmund were in a right mess. The German club won their last league title in 2001-2002 and had been languishing away from the top three since the year after. In fact they ended up 6th in 2003-2004, 9th in 2006-2007 and 13th in 2007-2008. So truly you cant compare Dortmund of that time with Manchester United.

Guardiola was the brains behind Barcelona's rebirth. He took a side who haven't won anything in the past 2 years and which lose some identity under Rijkaard, he implemented the incredible strategy (including the talent he produced) he used in the youth team and which was incredibly effective at Barcelona B level and ended up winning the treble in his first year.

Being competitive is different then achieving success! Arsenal has been successful, generating good profit year after year and that despite having a much smaller fan base then we do. That doesn't make them successful.
 
I am kind of the same opinion here regarding Moyes record for spending and that being part of the reasoning for his appointment, however. Moyes has proven his worth taking Everton to consistent finishes whilst operating far and above the clubs actual spending power. He is a proven motivator and at times a tactical genius, his work ethic and sheer appetite for learning and constant self improvement are testament to him. Given time his ability to operate within a budget whilst remaining consistent will pay dividend, he has a larger budget to operate within and thus the natural progression should give his teams a higher finish.
Patience here is key.


I am not anti Moyes. In fact I have defended him in various threads for the simple reason that I dont see it fair to blame him for everything under the sun. However let us not kid ourselves. We didn't signed Moyes because he's the safest bet to success. It would be stupid to think so.

And no, he's no tactical genius.
 
He's sure picked an exciting team today. Certainly can't be called negative on the back of it. It's down to the players now.
 
He's played the right team today. It's up to the players now to step up and help him out
 
I am not anti Moyes. In fact I have defended him in various threads for the simple reason that I dont see it fair to blame him for everything under the sun. However let us not kid ourselves. We didn't signed Moyes because he's the safest bet to success. It would be stupid to think so.

And no, he's no tactical genius.
He has shown some signs of it, consistently finishing above his teams level does rule out the element of luck.
 
He has shown some signs of it, consistently finishing above his teams level does rule out the element of luck.

Hes tactically good but labelling him a genius would be pushing it too far
 
It's not about that though. People would have been able to understand it had we performed poorly and not won one of our big games. As it is, we didn't win one out of the three, and only scored one consolation goal in the process. Fergie would have been criticised for those results, but obviously people would have had more faith in him because of who he was. Moyes doesn't have that luxury. He'll have to earn it over time.

Whihc is sort of the point im making. Some are writing him off way too early based upon a few very difficult league fixtures. As you say SAF could have gotten away with being attacking in those fixtures, but i can't understand why people would expect Moyes to be as gung ho when he obviously realises he would be slated for it far more than SAF. So caution was a perfectly understandable approach.

I don't remember when we played an incredibly attacking line-up in any of our big games either. In pretty much all of them, we were incredibly tentative and could've done with being more attacking, bar the Chelsea one where they were even more defensive than us.

Not in the big games, against WBA. He went attacking and the defence let him down really badly. So after 2 bad results, he goes cautious in Donetsk, get's a credible point, and was then accused by some on here of being overly cautious, even scared. Had we attacked and got bummed again, would he have been praised for a positive approach? I doubt it.

Expectations haven't changed though. No one is expecting incredible free-flowing football, they're simply expecting us to score some goals and win the odd big game, which we haven't done so far. No one is saying we've got to be incredibly defensive to cover our ageing defence; they're simply dismayed when we ship four with 11 men on the pitch against our main title rivals. The expectations haven't changed at all; Moyes just simply hasn't been anywhere near to living up to them so far and until he shows some signs of doing so, he'll be criticised. If he can, people will praise him for it. If he can't and fails, he'll go eventually. I think some people simply want there to be an agenda from his detractors, when the reality is that some people are simply not impressed by him as a manager.

No-one is delighted we were bummed by City, but City are capable of that against us. It should'nt come as too much of a surprise that we were outcalssed by Toure, Aguero and Kompany. The only time in the past couple of years we have done well against City was with RVP in the side, and he was out for that game. Had he approached the game like Donetsk, and gotten a draw, i am quite certain there would have been little praise, and yet more focus on his negativity. 6 games Cheesy. We haven't done it so far, but it's 6 games. I think there is an agenda by some, not all, but definitely some. They have already made their mind up about both Moyes and Fellaini, and every negative aspect is being used as confirmation of their view.

Even the Donetsk game which for me was a huge positive to go to a place where most English clubs have been beaten, and get a comfortable draw and produce a disciplined defensive display. I certainly haven't heard him get much praise for our CL results, some still relish looking at the negatives to reaffirm their premature view.

So i am not really looking at poster's with reasoned considered views, i am cautioning against bandwagon jumping prematurely. We need to take into account that Moyes is going to have to change a team that has played the same way, under the same manager for years. The start of this transition has been undertaken with obvious longstanding weaknesses in our team, and having to face some of our most difficult annual fixtures. If by March we have not improved then people will be perfectly entitled to criticise, but it's just way too soon yet for some of the comments in my view.
 
Whihc is sort of the point im making. Some are writing him off way too early based upon a few very difficult league fixtures. As you say SAF could have gotten away with being attacking in those fixtures, but i can't understand why people would expect Moyes to be as gung ho when he obviously realises he would be slated for it far more than SAF. So caution was a perfectly understandable approach.

Not in the big games, against WBA. He went attacking and the defence let him down really badly. So after 2 bad results, he goes cautious in Donetsk, get's a credible point, and was then accused by some on here of being overly cautious, even scared. Had we attacked and got bummed again, would he have been praised for a positive approach? I doubt it.

No-one is delighted we were bummed by City, but City are capable of that against us. It should'nt come as too much of a surprise that we were outcalssed by Toure, Aguero and Kompany. The only time in the past couple of years we have done well against City was with RVP in the side, and he was out for that game. Had he approached the game like Donetsk, and gotten a draw, i am quite certain there would have been little praise, and yet more focus on his negativity. 6 games Cheesy. We haven't done it so far, but it's 6 games. I think there is an agenda by some, not all, but definitely some. They have already made their mind up about both Moyes and Fellaini, and every negative aspect is being used as confirmation of their view.

Even the Donetsk game which for me was a huge positive to go to a place where most English clubs have been beaten, and get a comfortable draw and produce a disciplined defensive display. I certainly haven't heard him get much praise for our CL results, some still relish looking at the negatives to reaffirm their premature view.

So i am not really looking at poster's with reasoned considered views, i am cautioning against bandwagon jumping prematurely. We need to take into account that Moyes is going to have to change a team that has played the same way, under the same manager for years. The start of this transition has been undertaken with obvious longstanding weaknesses in our team, and having to face some of our most difficult annual fixtures. If by March we have not improved then people will be perfectly entitled to criticise, but it's just way too soon yet for some of the comments in my view.

Fair enough mate. I thought your post was like one of those abandoning all reasoned logic and simply criticising all his detractors, but you do make some good points and I agree that it's way to early to fully judge Moyes. I've said that despite the fact that I'm not exactly the guys biggest fan.

I understand why we were cautious against Shakhtar, but I think the main thing that frustrated people was the extent to which we were cautious and downright boring. Moyes' criticism was probably exaggerated for that, but many would have been annoyed with the team for being so unimaginative under Fergie as well, even though it was a decent result overall as they're a hard team to beat away from home. A lot were more frustrated by Fellaini, Moyes major signing, who just hasn't looked good enough so far and is clearly not in his best position as a centre mid, which is where he's most likely to generally play. That was only added to when Moyes put him behind the striker; a tactic many of us rightfully don't want to see used.
 
If United lose today, I think there is a strong possibility that we'll see some action from the United board.

United were the best team in England by far and within months, through a poor transfer strategy, firing the championship winning coaching staff, and perhaps his own inexperience, we look ordinary, at best. At best.
 
Sunderland is a tricky fixture, even if we fail to win today it won't be the end of the world.
 
Sunderland shouldn't be a tricky fixture at the moment but the board won't do anything. We're simply not going to get rid of Moyes this early on and it would be utterly ridiculous to do so, even as someone who isn't particularly keen on him.
 
6.1/3 match played and I am already starting to lose patience with Moyes - that is not a good sign. We are not even playing as a mid-table team - we are playing as a relegation contender. There is no movement - no sharpness - our defenders look shaky. It's been a complete disaster so far
 
There is no urgency or tempo to our play. The players look laboured and some just look unfit. I wonder if the training sessions are to blame?

Defensively we look like an accident waiting to happen. Going forward, there is a little creativity. We still suck against teams who press.
 
It's ok, he chose the right team, his responsibility as a United manager ends there.
 
It's ok, he chose the right team, his responsibility as a United manager ends there.
Not when you've sacked all the coaching staff and replaced them with Everton shite and ex united with no experience it doesn't.
 
I don't blame Moyes here, the players have been a fecking joke out there. It's hard to believe they're title winning, international footballers.
 
I don't think our current midfield are dynamic enough to play these types of games, or perhaps 2 isn't enough.
 
It's ok, he chose the right team, his responsibility as a United manager ends there.

ha. put a little smile on my face that did. funny.

his start to the season has pretty much nullified our fear factor, wouldn't be surprised if every team in the league fancies playing us now..hope he can turn it around, if he can, like properly, then he's got the motivational skills and the tactical nous needed
 
I've never seen our players as motivated as little as now. They just don't look like they give a shit.

Is that Moyes fault? Who knows.
 
Its beginning to look like Moyes really has no luck! Conceding that early goal has given us a massive uphill battle.

I'm not sure whether to blame him or feel sorry for him. Is he not motivating the players well enough? Are our tactics not good enough? Is he not able to make our players play with form and sharpness?

Its very baffling as this team won the title last year at a canter. Surely we can't be this bad.
 
I don't blame Moyes here, the players have been a fecking joke out there. It's hard to believe they're title winning, international footballers.


They are going to get him the sack. Probably the thing I hate most in football is players doing that to a manager. A spineless lot so far this season. Hard to believe the medal haul they all have. Dont think they would dare face Fergie after the way they have played this season/
 
ha. put a little smile on my face that did. funny.

his start to the season has pretty much nullified our fear factor, wouldn't be surprised if every team in the league fancies playing us now..hope he can turn it around, if he can, like properly, then he's got the motivational skills and the tactical nous needed

They definitely will after today. The bottom team in the league are all over us and should be three up.
 
I don't blame Moyes here, the players have been a fecking joke out there. It's hard to believe they're title winning, international footballers.


He's got a responsibility to motivate and prepare them to play. He's apparently failing at both. Why would you come in and change everything training-wise at a club like United? It's not as though United have had fitness issues. At some point a few of the players would have to play decently in the first 6-7 games of the season if it was down to them. We've collectively been awful. A few players can be put down to bad form, but they've all been bad.

Vidic has been shit today, but the worrying thing is that we've offered nothing going forward. The team is gormless under Moyes. No attacking threat whatsoever.
 
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Its beginning to look like Moyes really has no luck! Conceding that early goal has given us a massive uphill battle.

I'm not sure whether to blame him or feel sorry for him. Is he not motivating the players well enough? Are our tactics not good enough? Is he not able to make our players play with form and sharpness?

Its very baffling as this team won the title last year at a canter. Surely we can't be this bad.

And only lost on goal difference the season before.
 
Its beginning to look like Moyes really has no luck! Conceding that early goal has given us a massive uphill battle.

I'm not sure whether to blame him or feel sorry for him. Is he not motivating the players well enough? Are our tactics not good enough? Is he not able to make our players play with form and sharpness?

Its very baffling as this team won the title last year at a canter. Surely we can't be this bad.

Its not that bloody massive, 78 minutes left to turn the game around against fecking sunderland
 
this is a Moyes thread, so I'll talk about Moyes. He HAS to motivate his team. That's one of the most important ingredients of a manager.

the trouble is they players got used to being motivated by their manager and now they just cant get going.
 
Are we that desperate Adnan?
 
It's his job to come up with tactics that work and get the best out of these players, if they don't perform it must be partly his fault.
 
I don't blame Moyes here, the players have been a fecking joke out there. It's hard to believe they're title winning, international footballers.
Sort of disagree here mate. He is the one telling them to knock it long, not play out of defence etc. yes, the players have been playing shit but they are better than this.
.....united just score a second!
 
Would Mourinho have played Januzaj today?

Was always going to be one of the benefits from Moyes, great stuff
 
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