Moyes So Far!

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dave2528 said:
Why couldn't Moyes have done something relative to what Martinez has done? Built upon what was undeniably a good foundation?
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He fecked it up.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing so I will caveat all of this by saying that I don't know the details (none of us do).

But it seems like the following played a part (none of these are new points):

1) Fergie leaving United, is a much bigger deal than Moyes leaving Everton. A MUCH bigger deal
2) Moyes shouldn't have sacked all the backroom staff (not sure if Martinez did although, if Moyes took them all with him then Martinez wouldn't have had much choice
3) United's squad, while good, is on the decline which is made worse by
4) Poor summer transfer window (compared to Martinez who had an excellent one)

Not sure how much of it is Moyes' fault.
 
BorisontheRock said:
Complete wind up merchant.

sleep well in under your David Moyes duvet, and blindly hope that good things will happen.
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I know I'm not meant to do this according to the forum rules but you're a complete idiot. I just said he's the wrong man for a job. Can you not read?
 
dave2528 said:
What do you make of them this year?
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They're better. It takes nothing away from what Moyes has done at Everton. If anything, it's an indication of the positive spine he built in that team.

My opinion of Martinez is he will have them fighting relegation within two seasons.
 
BorisontheRock said:
Not to contradict you, because I had thought his achievements were good, but it seems Martinez is doing a shade better in his first year. Obviously good foundations and I don't want to revise history but it seems that Moyes may have held Everton back slightly, certainly the view of everton fans I've spoken to who know a lot more than me about their club.
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Did he? What happens next year when Martinez loans aren't doing as well as they are this year? What happens when Martinez has to rebuild the defense -something he was shit at at Wigan?

I'd say Martinez is success as Everton is due to what Moyes left and a couple of lucky loan signings.
 
AlwaysRedwood said:
They're better. It takes nothing away from what Moyes has done at Everton. If anything, it's an indication of the positive spine he built in that team.

My opinion of Martinez is he will have them fighting relegation within two seasons.
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Is this because he got Wigan relegated?
 
Shamwow said:
I know I'm not meant to do this according to the forum rules but you're a complete idiot. I just said he's the wrong man for a job. Can you not read?
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You called for blind faith, and you said moyes fecked up the transition but you don't know how much was his fault. I get that you are on the fence, but seems like the only thing in the pro box is blindness (since being agnostic you have no faith), I am trying to provide you with my rationale was to why i think he is the wrong man but you want to close you eyes to the whole thing, I'm not sure I'm the idiot here... though I am engaging you in conversation so maybe you're right!
 
Shamwow said:
He fecked it up...
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Whilst all the other stuff you typed was correct to an extent, this is the bottom line really. That, and Moyes is completely out of his depth here.


AlwaysRedwood said:
They're better. It takes nothing away from what Moyes has done at Everton. If anything, it's an indication of the positive spine he built in that team.

My opinion of Martinez is he will have them fighting relegation within two seasons.
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I guess only time will tell.
 
BorisontheRock said:
You called for blind faith, and you said moyes fecked up the transition but you don't know how much was his fault. I get that you are on the fence, but seems like the only thing in the pro box is blindness (since being agnostic you have no faith), I am trying to provide you with my rationale was to why i think he is the wrong man but you want to close you eyes to the whole thing, I'm not sure I'm the idiot here... though I am engaging you in conversation so maybe you're right!
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So you're trying to prove this to someone that already thinks he's the wrong man for the job. And you're failing. Well done sir. Well done.
 
Shamwow said:
I gave it a go...

aPRkTOY.jpg
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What about: "I think, therefore Rooney."
 
dave2528 said:
Whilst all the other stuff you typed was correct to an extent, this is the bottom line really. That, and Moyes is completely out of his depth here.




I guess only time will tell.
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It is the bottom line and it's why I won't complain if he's sacked tomorrow.

However part of my agnosticism is the understanding that my knowledge of the situation is limited to what happens on the field and what we read in the papers (most of which I would guess to be bull). So if the board decides - based on their better knowledge of the situation - that he should get time, I'll accept that.
 
Pscholes18 said:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/full-list-records-broken-moyes-140500470--sow.html

The full list of records broken by Moyes as Manchester United boss

By Harry Sherlock 3 hours ago
David Moyes has overseen a record-breaking season at Manchester United - but for all the wrong reasons.

Sunday's defeat at Everton means that the defending champions cannot finish in the top four this season, the first time they have failed to qualify for the Champions League since 1995.

The result also gifted the Toffees their first league double over United since 1969-70.

The below list was first published on Goal following the 3-0 home defeat to Manchester City at the end of March, but has been updated to reflect yet more unwanted records from a nightmare season.

MOYES'S UNWANTED RECORDS AT MAN UTD
United is guaranteed to finish the season with its lowest ever Premier League points tally
United fails to qualify for the Champions League for the first time since 1995
United's worst home league form for over a decade
Suffered three defeats in a row for the first time since 2001
Eliminated in the FA Cup third round - something which happened just once under Ferguson
First ever home defeat to Swansea
First home defeat to Newcastle since 1972
First home defeat to West Brom since 1978
First league defeat to Stoke since 1984
First time United conceded a first-minute goal in the Premier League - Dzeko for City
First time Man City and Liverpool have beaten United home and away since EPL inception
First time Everton, Man City and Liverpool have beaten United home and away since EPL inception
First time Everton has beaten United home and away since 1969-70
First time Everton and Liverpool have ever done a league double over United in the same season
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And there is much more to add to that list.
 
AlwaysRedwood said:
Did he? What happens next year when Martinez loans aren't doing as well as they are this year? What happens when Martinez has to rebuild the defense -something he was shit at at Wigan?

I'd say Martinez is success as Everton is due to what Moyes left and a couple of lucky loan signings.
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You may be right and the financial constraints of everton are always going to make things tough, but lets be serious, the loans weren't lucky, everyone knew what barry and lukaku were all about and the barca lad his been tipped for good things. Martinez did well to get them in and saw what they would bring. Wenger could never build a defence and he did OK.

Moyes left a great platform, he maybe just needed a striker and could have achieved 4th 5th this season with everton, but record points total and good performances are making martinez look good right now.
 
I honestly woke up this morning thinking that there would be an announcement about him resigning.
 
Shamwow said:
So you're trying to prove this to someone that already thinks he's the wrong man for the job. And you're failing. Well done sir. Well done.
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No need for any further arguments. Evidentially he is the wrong man for the job. We have seen enough haven't we?
 
Shamwow said:
It is the bottom line and it's why I won't complain if he's sacked tomorrow.

However part of my agnosticism is the understanding that my knowledge of the situation is limited to what happens on the field and what we read in the papers (most of which I would guess to be bull). So if the board decides - based on their better knowledge of the situation - that he should get time, I'll accept that.
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We don't have much of a choice to do much else. do we? :lol: :(
 
marukomu said:
I honestly woke up this morning thinking that there would be an announcement about him resigning.
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Mate most of us wanted the same thing. But if he didn't get the sack after Olympiakos, City or Liverpool, he was not going to get fired after yesterday.
 
Esquire said:
Mate most of us wanted the same thing. But if he didn't get the sack after Olympiakos, City or Liverpool, he was not going to get fired after yesterday.
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I don't expect him to be sacked. SAF is too stubborn to allow that. I just thought Moyes would do the decent thing and leave.
 
Esquire said:
No need for any further arguments. Evidentially he is the wrong man for the job. We have seen enough haven't we?
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We could discuss the intricacies of the situation - some of which might be mitigating circumstances for Moyes. But it seems people get offended by that.
 
I don't care about Martinez and his horseshit team, Moyes probably would have had them there or thereabout. Martinez promised CL football, he's gonna fail in that, so lets not be blowing smoke up the spaniards arse.

I'm even upset we're comparing the two teams, we're defending champions with a muppet manager, lets get shot of the muppet and his clown backroom staff move on with our lives.
 
Shamwow said:
So you're trying to prove this to someone that already thinks he's the wrong man for the job. And you're failing. Well done sir. Well done.
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Ok I'm preaching to the almost converted, I see my work is done. Unless my failing to prove he's the wrong man is making you into a pro-moyes believer........

Just having a bit of fun with you Shamwow, you agnostics crack me up, sitting on the fence like that, if he's fired, happy days, if he's a success happy days, good ole blind faith won out.
 
Ubik said:
Is this because he got Wigan relegated?
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Partially. I do like his style of play and ended up watching Wigan quite a bit because of it. I think the same thing that happened to him at Wigan will happen at Everton. He will find good midfielders and offensive minded players, who will be snapped up by top 4 teams. He will not be able to build a decent defense when those players need to be replaced, and the loan signings were very fortunate this year but will they be successful every year? No.
 
AlwaysRedwood said:
Partially. I do like his style of play and ended up watching Wigan quite a bit because of it. I think the same thing that happened to him at Wigan will happen at Everton. He will find good midfielders and offensive minded players, who will be snapped up by top 4 teams. He will not be able to build a decent defense when those players need to be replaced, and the loan signings were very fortunate this year but will they be successful every year? No.
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To be fair he tried to sign John Stones when at Wigan but Stones chose Everton. That's a signing that everyone is praising as a typically shrewd defensive signing by Moyes.
 
BorisontheRock said:
Ok I'm preaching to the almost converted, I see my work is done. Unless my failing to prove he's the wrong man is making you into a pro-moyes believer........

Just having a bit of fun with you Shamwow, you agnostics crack me up, sitting on the fence like that, if he's fired, happy days, if he's a success happy days, good ole blind faith won out.
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It's actually all we can do as football supporters.
 
BorisontheRock said:
You may be right and the financial constraints of everton are always going to make things tough, but lets be serious, the loans weren't lucky, everyone knew what barry and lukaku were all about and the barca lad his been tipped for good things. Martinez did well to get them in and saw what they would bring. Wenger could never build a defence and he did OK.

Moyes left a great platform, he maybe just needed a striker and could have achieved 4th 5th this season with everton, but record points total and good performances are making martinez look good right now.
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He was quite lucky to get them. He won't be lucky like that every year.

Moyes actually had decent strikers. Problem was, after a good season, they'd disappear. Was that the striker or because of Moyes. Based on what I'm watching now, I think it was because of Moyes.
 
AlwaysRedwood said:
Partially. I do like his style of play and ended up watching Wigan quite a bit because of it. I think the same thing that happened to him at Wigan will happen at Everton. He will find good midfielders and offensive minded players, who will be snapped up by top 4 teams. He will not be able to build a decent defense when those players need to be replaced, and the loan signings were very fortunate this year but will they be successful every year? No.
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Again, i don't disagree, i can see barkley, coleman getting snapped up, maybe stones, but if he can get europe, he may keep them, he'll have more cash and more options. as i said, wenger can't build a defence and liverpools defence is actually quite shocking (shame their offence is so good) who's to say whether he's a one year wonder but the contrast with everton and moyes united this year is shocking.
 
dave2528 said:
Why couldn't Moyes have done something relative to what Martinez has done? Built upon what was undeniably a good foundation here?
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I suspect if Martinez had failed, he would have used the same ol Moyesism. Squads too old excuse. Except he didnt have a runaway squad of champions before.

This match only highlights the poor job Motes has done. He has failed against every new manager out there. You don't rebuild championship winning squad and management structure.. You may tweak it like Pep or enhance it like Martinez unlike on the job trainee, Moyes.
 
Shamwow said:
We could discuss the intricacies of the situation - some of which might be mitigating circumstances for Moyes. But it seems people get offended by that.
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Of course we can. I for one am not offended and happy to debate. That said, one still has to draw the bottom line after the context and colour has been filled. It just seems to be the Moyes-in camp continually ask for faith and time, when the EVIDENCE currently do not support any reward of further trust.

This is a results business and what Moyes has generated is simply unacceptable. Let's just employ the same scenario we find ourselves in with a similar competitor in the same market (thus harbouring the same objectives and constraints). You can slot in Madrid, Barca, PSG, Bayern, etc. Even if you remove the traditionally more volatile and trigger happy regimes like Madrid and Man City, you would be hard pressed to argue the case that any of these footballing powers would retain the services of a manager who cannot maintain the performance of a team (which won the title a year ago) comprising a coupe of world class players and full internationals to maintain a decent and consistent level of performance and fight for the top four, let alone the title.
 
marukomu said:
I honestly woke up this morning thinking that there would be an announcement about him resigning.
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Bit early, its only 4am in the UK not that he is likely to resign any time soon anyway, he will want his big pay day hes scottish. No offence to our scottish members of the Caf.;)

marukomu said:
I don't expect him to be sacked. SAF is too stubborn to allow that. I just thought Moyes would do the decent thing and leave.
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I think you are overestimating Fergusons influence, if the board wants to sack Moyes, SAF doesn't get a vote.
 
marukomu said:
I don't expect him to be sacked. SAF is too stubborn to allow that. I just thought Moyes would do the decent thing and leave.
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He honestly believes he inherited a team full of crappy players!

There will be plenty of debate about the performance of the players this season and a lot of them will have to take a hard look at themselves. However, SAF should be able to tell that the players just don't want to play for Moyes (save Rooney).
 
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