I'm not trying to be a smartass. I'm seriously interested to know what those who think he's up to the job see that myself and others do not.
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Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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I'm not trying to be a smartass. I'm seriously interested to know what those who think he's up to the job see that myself and others do not.
I've always found agnostics to be atheists with a tendency to dither over decisions. The David Moyes of belief-frameworks, if you will.
Quiet, you!
It was actually a somewhat serious answer.
The fact that I think last year's Everton would've beat United today means that Moyes must be able to improve with us surely? But we can't see any signs this season to believe in the guy.
Therefore, Moyes Agnosticism is born.
I didn't think it was actually possible for a manager to do as bad with us as he has. He's changed my entire view on football management.
More like the emperors new clothes you mean.... just because you can see it does make it real.
I'm not sure you understand what Agnosticism is.
Unfortunately he lacks the tactical nuances that top managers need and he's like a kitten stuck in a den full of tigers right not. He's in over his head and his fate was sealed the moment he decided to pander to Rooney's contract demands.
Name me a manager who isn't determined. Also, define "pretty good". Is being perpetually in 7th-8th place in the league year after year, whilst winning nothing, "pretty good"? Also, by that logic does it not stand to reason that you think he's doing "pretty good" here also? Firmly ensconced in mid-table mediocrity.
At least with Pulis, we might actually be able to defend.
I'm certain David Moyes does not have a plan. If the believers can give us proof of said plan, perhaps we can entertain the existence of.
Yeah me too. We still have the thread where everyone was predicting where we would finish this season. People who said fourth were laughed at for being too pessimistic or stupid. What wouldn't we do now to be fourth, eh? To say Moyes hasn't been a success so far is an understatement. He has been a disaster.
An 11 year old moyes team can beat a 1 year old moyes team.... I think you are looking too far into it, firstly moyes couldn't manage both, so i would argue the non moyes managed united would beat the moyes managed everton, but who's to say. However, shows how far he's dragged us down that you can be convinced that an everton team can beat a united team.. you'll be an atheist yet!!
Last year the Moyes managed Everton beat the non-Moyes managed United in the same fixture.
I actually think the Rooney thing, was something he got right. Boy's done everything, on the pitch, we could've asked for.
Utter pillock but still worth it.
I'd say, making a side that seemed capable of relegation, a consistent top half side, is pretty good.
Is he allowed to manage two different teams at the same time, against one another?
I'm not against your overall point but I don't like this underplaying of Moyes' achievements with Everton.
I think you're missing the point. I'm not saying it's literally possible that he would invent a time machine and play his team from the past.
I'm just saying that the team he managed last year, with lower resources, would (in my opinion) have beat the much more expensive team he's managing today. This indicates to me that it's not black and white "Moyes is a bad manager" but that he's the wrong man in the wrong place at the wrong time.
And this season, Steve Bruces Hull beat Liverpool, so he must be the best manager in the league....
One game Shamwow... over the last 11 seasons, moyes everton has played utd 24 times and won 3... we could have played today 24 times and everton would have a perfect record.
The problem here is that we're not expecting just to stay in the top half, and, unfortunately for David, he isn't looking as though he knows how to make the leap from being in charge of a mid table club, to being responsible for one of the worlds best clubs.
I'm not sure what you're trying to convince me of here.
Indeed. I am the patient sort, though. I would rather we give him the benefit of the doubt than try someone else. He has, at least, had a season to look at our problems.
I don't get your logic, so because an old moyes team can beat this united team moyes is the right man... are you a pisstaker? Are you rubbing it in? this united team is so shite, half the league from last season would beat us right now... and its Moyes' fault.
And create a whole host of new ones
You can disregard the first part I typed that you quoted, it was a different reply i edited out. I'm being silly in regards to our conversation, and am not being completely serious with my questions to you. That said, I don't think that Moyes is a bad manager. He was obviously able to keep Everton comfortably in the top half of the league year after year, just as I and others have pointed out. The problem for him here is that we're not looking to finish in 7th or 8th, and, he doesn't look like he has the know how to make that step up.
I actually think what he did at Everton is quite good. Very impressive.
He's gone missing in games when he's clearly unfit/out of form and yet Moyes continues to play him for fear of offending him which results in the likes of Welbeck/Hernandez not getting games. Moyes had the perfect opportunity to get Rooney to sign a new contract on the club's terms by sitting him till he signs a new contract. If he doesn't sign it, let him rot till his contract ends and he can leave on a free transfer. Rooney will sign because this is his last chance to play at the world cup at his prime and he won't want to look like an overweight buffoon in Brazil to due lack of games, despite the fact that England will start him as long as he's able to stand.
When did I say Moyes is the right man?
In the post you quoted right fecking there I said word for word he's the "wrong man".
I have some faith left. Call it blind, if you will.
What do you make of them this year?
Not to contradict you, because I had thought his achievements were good, but it seems Martinez is doing a shade better in his first year. Obviously good foundations and I don't want to revise history but it seems that Moyes may have held Everton back slightly, certainly the view of everton fans I've spoken to who know a lot more than me about their club.
They are a great example of how you take over a well run team, identify the improvements that you can make and do well with them.
They might keep this sort of play up, they might not - everyone has question marks over Martinez' defensive nous. Although I think it's promising for him that he tried to sign John Stones while at Wigan.
His time at Everton was admirable indeed that can't be denied.
But i would say it impressed me the same way Pulis has turned Palace around albeit over a shorter period.
Or Big Sam at bolton a few years back.
Again, I don't think he's a horrible manager, at the right club and with the proper expectations. What I am saying is that United isn't the right club, and, ours aren't the right expectations for him.
With all due respect, that's what it is. What he did with Everton was certainly commendable, but barely applicable to running one of the top clubs around. He was never qualified for this job and has been proven beyond all reasonable doubt incapable of it.
Blind faith isn't such a bad thing to have as a football supporter.
Why have faith? Moyes isn't a deity, I've seen no presence no suggestion of greatness to come. I've seen him rip open our club, wash our dirty linen in public, criticise players, attack the structure, rewrite our recent history (under SAF), set a host of unwelcome records. Even a blind man can see he's not fit for purpose.
Why couldn't Moyes have done something relative to what Martinez has done? Built upon what was undeniably a good foundation here?
I respect the fact that you are calling it faith. No need to say it is blind because faith by its nature is the belief in absence of evidence. I had faith in Moyes way after I ran out of reasons to back him. The faith, has just recently disappeared. I want him gone as soon as possible and I can't see any possible benefits of him staying any longer.
Complete wind up merchant.
sleep well in under your David Moyes duvet, and blindly hope that good things will happen.
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