Sometimes a job is simply too big for one to manage. It happens in all walks of life. No wrong in admitting/experiencing that. Moyes won't do such, at least I can't imagine so, and surely he won't resign, nor would I blame a person for not doing such. However, the board should realize this and make necessary changes. There's a lot at stake here, no different than a big corporation axing a CEO/Pres/VP, or a small company letting go of managers. The Glazers are lethal businessmen and have surely fired poor performers in the past (they have with Tampa Bay). Same should apply in this situation.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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Ten pages since the end of the game. 
Seriously, today was another reality check - we've had so many this season. We've once again brought that nicer football we've been playing in recent weeks, only to find out that against good defences and quality teams we have no idea what to actually do with it. Not surprising and another evidence as to why Moyes shouldn't stay and why new signings won't be enough. He had a quality attacking quartet there, but they were just clueless. I hope he only has four games left, but I'm not optimistic.
Seriously, today was another reality check - we've had so many this season. We've once again brought that nicer football we've been playing in recent weeks, only to find out that against good defences and quality teams we have no idea what to actually do with it. Not surprising and another evidence as to why Moyes shouldn't stay and why new signings won't be enough. He had a quality attacking quartet there, but they were just clueless. I hope he only has four games left, but I'm not optimistic.
I actually hoped he would be angry enough today to get this team fired up. If Everton had been making all these statements about SAF he would have got the team going out like gladiators not the frightened players Moyes sends out.
When you look at how Liverpool attack compared to us it's like night and day. Their players (except Suarez, who's been incredible) shouldn't be better than what we have, but on the pitch the difference is insane. For people saying that "Moyes needs time", "The players are letting him down" or whatever (assuming there's still people saying that, of course) - that is what a manager means to a club.
Rodgers took over a team that hadn't won anything in years, made a few key signings and got the team to play exactly how he wants to and they're full of confidence and belief. They're currently on their way to win the PL, probably beating the number of points we gained the past few seasons and scoring a ton of goals. Moyes took over the champions and signed an expensive player that doesn't fit the playstyle the club is known for. He's seemingly doing his best to alienate players (even the ones with very close ties to the club) and has made the team get progressively worse over the season. I won't even bother going into his "small-club mentality"-comments. There doesn't seem to be any confidence or belief in any of our players. Surely the board must realise this isn't working out before he makes any more damage to the club.
I gave Moyes a lot of time, I believe - up until the Fulham game I still thought there was a chance he could turn it around. I have no hope whatsoever for that now, and I can't wait to see the "Moyes sacked!" headlines, which I firmly believe are inevitable. Only a question of how long we'll have to live with Moyes before it happens.
Rodgers took over a team that hadn't won anything in years, made a few key signings and got the team to play exactly how he wants to and they're full of confidence and belief. They're currently on their way to win the PL, probably beating the number of points we gained the past few seasons and scoring a ton of goals. Moyes took over the champions and signed an expensive player that doesn't fit the playstyle the club is known for. He's seemingly doing his best to alienate players (even the ones with very close ties to the club) and has made the team get progressively worse over the season. I won't even bother going into his "small-club mentality"-comments. There doesn't seem to be any confidence or belief in any of our players. Surely the board must realise this isn't working out before he makes any more damage to the club.
I gave Moyes a lot of time, I believe - up until the Fulham game I still thought there was a chance he could turn it around. I have no hope whatsoever for that now, and I can't wait to see the "Moyes sacked!" headlines, which I firmly believe are inevitable. Only a question of how long we'll have to live with Moyes before it happens.
They were in 13th the year before he took over (nine points off relegation). Surely you can see the difference between Klopp finishing sixth then and Moyes (possibly) finishing sixth with us? you can't be that deluded.
Can anyone tell me what the concensus on MUTV was from the fans phoning in, not the pundits.
How can you even compare Klopp at Dortmund to this? Dortmund were lower table rubbish when he took over.
Where would we have been in the league table last season with an injured RVP ?
Around that position.
I think the biggest issue for Moyes is the "power" and "control" that Ferguson spoke of and how important it is in order to be successful in that role at the club.
The trouble is that Moyes's "power" and "control" at the club right now is completely artificial compared to what Ferguson had. The power and control he has is only there through the backing from Ferguson and the board room and does not come through respect or fear created by Moyes himself. Ferguson must realise this himself and realise that no matter what backing he gives Moyes, he's never going to have the character to manage Manchester United.
The trouble is that Moyes's "power" and "control" at the club right now is completely artificial compared to what Ferguson had. The power and control he has is only there through the backing from Ferguson and the board room and does not come through respect or fear created by Moyes himself. Ferguson must realise this himself and realise that no matter what backing he gives Moyes, he's never going to have the character to manage Manchester United.
Yes, because in 11/12 we had RVP. Utter nonsense
Yet the same squad minus RVP only lost the title on goal difference the year before. You're talking nonsense.
Comfortably overlooking facts like where those teams were when they took over or what they've done to them early on. Moyes just took over the champions, added Fellaini and Mata, and prompty made them 7th best in the league, barely able to pick up points against quality sides. Pathetic, really.
Let's not forget this is the same group of players that won the league comfortably last season. In theory we should be stronger with Felliani and Mata added to the squad. I don't buy into all this "it's a transition period" talk anymore. The more I think about the more it sounds like an excuse to perform poorly and still keep your job by saying it's a "transition".
He's out of his depth. I lost all faith in him after the Fulham game. He shows no signs of improvement at all.
The end of the season is going to be tough. We have nothing to play nothing for the players to get motivated for. But then again that's down to the poor performances all season that have left us in this mess. I'm not saying it is all Moyes' fault but it's rare that a whole squad underperforms in the same season. A lot of the blame has to be with Moyes.
Except all these 2011 players were two to three years younger than they are today.
Evra hardly the same player, Vidic-Ferdinand played just 6 times this season, Nani nowhere near as consistent... etc
Is Moyes deliberately easing out players with character? There was no player or coaching staff doing any talking or pushi ng the team.
The impression I got is they were all going through the motions and basically accepted defeat. There's no fight in the team, and that to me is worse than not winning.
The impression I got is they were all going through the motions and basically accepted defeat. There's no fight in the team, and that to me is worse than not winning.
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Yep, that's the issue. Taking a punt on Moyes wasn't the worst thing in the world. But now I think most people can agree it was silly and a little blind. Not taking drastic action now would be idiotic.
Ray Bobbins was right. It is not just tactics. The soul and heart have been ripped out of the team. It is gutting to see us not even try in the last 10 minutes. Besides that Rooney chance, we were not bothered towards the end of the match. Just waiting for the final whistle.
A transition period at United would be coming down from that 89 point victory last year to a 3th, perhaps given the circumstances, a 4th place. Not 7th being a poorer side than Everton and Tottenham. I wouldn't even be mad about the 7th place if the football would be decent, you can make mistakes and get punished for that and lose games you played well in. We just look utterly crap versus almost any team, our attackers don't find eachother, we just seem to be running without any sort of purpose, when have the ball we just don't know what to with and it and that was with Nani, Rooney, kagawa and Mata in the team, that is absolutley shocking.
You can't keep excusing these kind of performances anymore on the basis of transitional issues, really you can't. If Klopp would be the manager here, we would not be playing such meaningless football. The truth is Moyes simply doesn't know what he can do about this, hence why nothing is changing. The only thing he can figure out to resolve is that he needs more time and better players, but we can give him another season and £100m worth of new players and we'll see the same kind of meaningless football, he just isn't capable of managing a team to win titles and play good football.
Drynkan weeeee.ll noyt sulver oourhahh prrahhblemms (burp) oooh spaarkleey!
Just saw this quote from our genius of a manager on the BBC: "We'll do everything we can to win the remaining four games. We are under way with what we are doing to improve next season and try to give ourselves a better chance to compete at the top end of the table."
I think he's got a tape recorder attached to the back of his fecking throat and every time he's asked for a quote, he just gives a stupid grim and flips a switch. Press 2 for "we'll do all we can" or press 3 for "the supporters are behind me".
I think he's got a tape recorder attached to the back of his fecking throat and every time he's asked for a quote, he just gives a stupid grim and flips a switch. Press 2 for "we'll do all we can" or press 3 for "the supporters are behind me".
Fair enough on the Klopp/Van Gaal points. Van Gaal took over an Ajax side that had one domestic title in the previous six seasons (89-90, he arrived in 1991). Ajax finished 2nd in 1990-91 on 53 points, and under Van Gaal they did the same with 55 points while scoring more goals to boot. They were knocked out by Feyenoord in the Cup, not a good result. He did win the UEFA Cup in his first season, back when it was an actual honor to win it. He strengthened the academy and installed a new philosophy. In contrast, Moyes has destroyed what SAF built over 27 years and was eliminated in the LC semis and FAC third round by vastly inferior sides. He did manage to guide the club to the CL quarters, fair play to him, though Van Gaal still trumped him in European play. Van Gaal 2, Moyes 0.
Klopp tookover a club that had finished 13th the season prior and led them to 6th; then to 5th before winning consecutive titles. So he took the club UP not DOWN, spot the difference. There is nothing in Moyes' first season that gives me the slightest hope he can emulate these two.
2 months does age a person considerably. I am hardly recognizable from what I was in February. I can only imagine how much their body broke down in just 2 months after winning the league by 11 points.
As for Rio, only an idiot would play him in every game to start the season. Fergie would have never done something so reckless. Moyes doesn't even know how to rotate his players. His practice sessions are like bootcamps. He is clueless.
Pretty much this, while in the first half you could make a point that we've looked 'ok' bar the obvious lack of effort on goal ( which is the most important but don't mind that for a minute ), moved the ball nicely and so on, after those two goals in the second half we've been so fecking rubbish it was unbelievable. Nobody cared, so many balls given away cheaply because somebody was nonchalant with his play like we were winning 4-0 and so on. Nobody gave a feck, maybe bar Hernandez when he came on.
I agree, they seem to have no idea what they are supposed to be doing and look to have given up all hope. I remember Moyes at the start saying he needs to put his own stamp on the team. Well, that is just about the only thing he has managed to do. I now see a picture of our squad with a big red stamp in a red square and the words Shit! stamped on top of it.
6 points off a team who have finished below you in living memory, and who have been crap enough to sack 2 managers!
If you wish to take the comparison to another level, just take a look at how long their predecessors lasted.
Thomas Doll barely lasted over a year at Borussia prior to Klopp taking over. Beenhakker was there for less than two years before Van Gaal arrived at Ajax.
They didn't inherit a squad that just knew one manager prior to their appointment. This is why the horse-jockey analogy of earlier is relevant in this case.
So now you're discrediting SAF's ability to manage a club. Fantastic.
It is true RVP won the club many points in 2012-13, but there's not a realistic thought the club would have finished 7th last season, even without RVP.
Nope, I'm actually praising him for taking a side with numerous shortcomings to unprecedented heights at the end of his term.
Reminds me of Fergie after the cup final in 83. Aberdeen beat Rangers and Fergie comes up with this after the game.
"We're the luckiest team in the world. We were a disgrace of a performance. Miller and McLeish won the cup for Aberdeen. Miller and McLeish played Rangers themselves. They were a disgrace of a performance. And I'm not caring, winning cups doesn't matter. Our standards have been set long ago and we're not going to accept that from any Aberdeen team. No way should we take any glory from that"
@2.20.
Or 6 points off a team that spent £70m more than you in the summer transfer window?
The season before that we ended up second and losing the league due to goals difference.
-Imagine being told at the start of the season. Moyes will take Man Utd to 12pts below his old side Everton.
then
nowYep, but that was two-three years ago and times have changed.
Or are you trying to tell me the Evra of 2011 is the same as today's ?
Circular logic. It's like arguing religion with a religious nutter.
I dont usually agree with Holt but i've found myself thinking the same.
Moyes failing to recognise when his big players go missing and not replacing them because hes scared at what the press/player might think is just confirmation of his small club mentality.
A religious fanatic is an apt comparison. It's the only way you can truly continue to back Moyes at the current state.
You got that right. Times have changed, we are now lead by a clueless individual who has no idea what to do with a club of our caliber.
Why is it? Labouring the point, I know, but transition is for teams who need rebuilding - and a team like United, shouldn't have reached that stage. If it's just a managerial transition, we appear to be the only team with a new manager, to be struggling. City, Chelsea, Everton, and some of the CL teams, all have new managers and are thriving.
Transition is an excuse but the fact is, it doesn't have to be negative. Except in our case.
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