Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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Maybe he wants to take the job.
he's correct, of course, it just looks word for word like a post someone would write here. Maybe he's on the Caf?
Yes, I gathered that.
Wow, wow. It's actually a resume of 'Moyes so far' thread.
Very good post.
In those quotes, Moyes claims he left behind an excellent squad and Martinez showing this improvement is not surprising but earlier claims about the state of our squad being the main reason behind our failings.
He reminds me of my former manager. Taking credit for all our hard work and dumping all his failings either on the structure in place or on his subordinates. And I don't respect these kind of people.
Jesus finally someone in football who doesn't have a vested interest in keeping moyes where he is cutting through the bullshit thats been spouted about our squad all season long.
Dave as gracious as ever there, trying to claim credit for evertons success this season he did play a big part in it with the foundations he left, but doesn't come across too well in those quotes in my opinion.
These two in particular are gems:
The players were capable indeed all they needed was a manager with some balls. And a place in the top 4 opening up by the champions plummeting down to 7th.
Yes great achievement that was when it happened a decade ago.
So basically everton are having a great season because moyes left behind such a great squad. But United are having a dreadful season because moyes inherited an awful aging squad, yeah ok dave.
Refreshing to see a manager/anyone in football actually talk sense about the scenario. Moyes' successor though, the irony...
The thing with Moyes is that he knows his way of playing football on the attack. He isn't a McLeish or Allardyce in that he only sets up his team, defensively, and has a long-ball approach when his team has the ball. We've seen that last season at Everton and with Preston after the articles posted in Page 810 showed that he's capable of setting up a team for good attacking football.
Like several defensive-minded managers, he has a set way of playing good football and not just a straight long ball out to the target man. However, more often than not, he's avoided this approach in fear of his teams losing their defensive shape and solidity (good enough for a side wanting to survive/stay in mid table, but not good enough for a team wanting to win trophies).
Moyes likes to overload the wide areas with 1 full back, 1 winger, and 1 central midfielder/attacking midfielder/supporting forward. After overloading the wide areas, he has one of those three players get into the middle areas with the attacking player in the opposite channel tucking in and making the most of the space in the middle along with one of the three from the overloaded side. We have seen this many times last season with Fellaini/Osman going to the left side with Pienaar and Baines with either Baines, Osman (if he's playing as the attacking midfielder), or Pienaar making the most of the space in the middle. This also happened on the right side with Mirallas, Coleman, and Fellaini/Osman combining.
Moyes loves to have a target man in his front 4 as seen with Cahill, Fellaini, Yakubu, Duncan Ferguson, and Anichebe. If his target man isn't a striker, then Moyes has his striker play as the poacher/finisher who only finishes off attacking players and doesn't do much else. If he's not able to select a target man in his front 4, he makes his striker play as the poacher/finisher without giving them much freedom with their movement and positioning and always playing with their back to the goal. This is probably the reason why the likes of Saha, Beattie, Johnson, Vellios, and Jelavic (for some matches, last season) have struggled as a striker under Moyes. The fact that we don't have a target man in the team is the reason why van Persie, Chicharito, Welbeck, and Rooney have often struggled when playing as a striker, this season. The lack of movement from our strikers indicates that Moyes wants them to stick close to the defenders and stay in the middle at all times without much lateral or vertical movement. No wonder van Persie and Chicharito struggled, this season. This is more suitable for a big, strong striker, instead.
Since his attacking approach is with the front 4 (minus the striker) + full backs, his central midfielders tend to be more defensively sound and disciplined. Moyes' central midfielders are good at reading the game, defensively sound, and allow the front 4 + full backs to play with freedom. Moyes prefers to have one box-to-box midfielder and one deep-lying player. One of them has to be a playmaker/more attack-minded (Arteta/Gibson/Osman were playmakers who infrequently went forward, and Rodwell/Fellaini were box-to-box midfielders who were aggressive ball winners and frequently went forward to get involved in the final third). The other has to be a destroyer/anchor man (Carsley/Gravesen were used as all-action destroyers, whilst Neville was the anchor man).
He loves two solid central defenders whose job is to defend first and do everything else later. However, he does like to have one of his solid central defenders to be good on the ball and be able to play the ball out (Lescott and Jagielka at Everton; Evans with Man. Utd.). He likes his full backs to be good on the attack as seen with him playing Baines and Coleman, often.
Recently, he's had us play through the middle with Kagawa and Mata doing lots in the middle areas with one winger on the right side. However, I think he could get back to his original attacking plans if he gets a better left winger and plays Nani and Januzaj more often, or fit Kagawa and Mata into this system if he doesn't buy a great left winger (this can work as the overloading allows for short-passing, pass-and-move plays, plus the space in the middle can be well-exploited by Mata and Kagawa with the crossing mostly done by the full backs).
He does have a good way of playing football: overload the wide areas to make space in the middle to exploit. It's just that Moyes avoids it when under pressure to get results. This is appropriate when playing for lower/mid-table teams, but he needs to be more proactive when playing for a team challenging for trophies. The sooner he realises this, the better his spell could be with us (possibly). However, even if he signs quality players, if he's still defensive and preventive in his approach, we could struggle to win trophies and achieve only Champions League positions, at best.
Like several defensive-minded managers, he has a set way of playing good football and not just a straight long ball out to the target man. However, more often than not, he's avoided this approach in fear of his teams losing their defensive shape and solidity (good enough for a side wanting to survive/stay in mid table, but not good enough for a team wanting to win trophies).
Moyes likes to overload the wide areas with 1 full back, 1 winger, and 1 central midfielder/attacking midfielder/supporting forward. After overloading the wide areas, he has one of those three players get into the middle areas with the attacking player in the opposite channel tucking in and making the most of the space in the middle along with one of the three from the overloaded side. We have seen this many times last season with Fellaini/Osman going to the left side with Pienaar and Baines with either Baines, Osman (if he's playing as the attacking midfielder), or Pienaar making the most of the space in the middle. This also happened on the right side with Mirallas, Coleman, and Fellaini/Osman combining.
Moyes loves to have a target man in his front 4 as seen with Cahill, Fellaini, Yakubu, Duncan Ferguson, and Anichebe. If his target man isn't a striker, then Moyes has his striker play as the poacher/finisher who only finishes off attacking players and doesn't do much else. If he's not able to select a target man in his front 4, he makes his striker play as the poacher/finisher without giving them much freedom with their movement and positioning and always playing with their back to the goal. This is probably the reason why the likes of Saha, Beattie, Johnson, Vellios, and Jelavic (for some matches, last season) have struggled as a striker under Moyes. The fact that we don't have a target man in the team is the reason why van Persie, Chicharito, Welbeck, and Rooney have often struggled when playing as a striker, this season. The lack of movement from our strikers indicates that Moyes wants them to stick close to the defenders and stay in the middle at all times without much lateral or vertical movement. No wonder van Persie and Chicharito struggled, this season. This is more suitable for a big, strong striker, instead.
Since his attacking approach is with the front 4 (minus the striker) + full backs, his central midfielders tend to be more defensively sound and disciplined. Moyes' central midfielders are good at reading the game, defensively sound, and allow the front 4 + full backs to play with freedom. Moyes prefers to have one box-to-box midfielder and one deep-lying player. One of them has to be a playmaker/more attack-minded (Arteta/Gibson/Osman were playmakers who infrequently went forward, and Rodwell/Fellaini were box-to-box midfielders who were aggressive ball winners and frequently went forward to get involved in the final third). The other has to be a destroyer/anchor man (Carsley/Gravesen were used as all-action destroyers, whilst Neville was the anchor man).
He loves two solid central defenders whose job is to defend first and do everything else later. However, he does like to have one of his solid central defenders to be good on the ball and be able to play the ball out (Lescott and Jagielka at Everton; Evans with Man. Utd.). He likes his full backs to be good on the attack as seen with him playing Baines and Coleman, often.
Recently, he's had us play through the middle with Kagawa and Mata doing lots in the middle areas with one winger on the right side. However, I think he could get back to his original attacking plans if he gets a better left winger and plays Nani and Januzaj more often, or fit Kagawa and Mata into this system if he doesn't buy a great left winger (this can work as the overloading allows for short-passing, pass-and-move plays, plus the space in the middle can be well-exploited by Mata and Kagawa with the crossing mostly done by the full backs).
He does have a good way of playing football: overload the wide areas to make space in the middle to exploit. It's just that Moyes avoids it when under pressure to get results. This is appropriate when playing for lower/mid-table teams, but he needs to be more proactive when playing for a team challenging for trophies. The sooner he realises this, the better his spell could be with us (possibly). However, even if he signs quality players, if he's still defensive and preventive in his approach, we could struggle to win trophies and achieve only Champions League positions, at best.
Meanwhile, Phil Neville — Moyes’s captain at Everton and now on his staff at Old Trafford — admitted United have let their fans down.
‘We have not fulfilled any expectations,’ he said. ‘We have failed and that doesn’t sit kindly with anyone.
‘I find it difficult to watch Match of the Day. I find it almost impossible because we’ve suffered this season.’
On a side note , that made me laugh
‘We have not fulfilled any expectations,’ he said. ‘We have failed and that doesn’t sit kindly with anyone.
‘I find it difficult to watch Match of the Day. I find it almost impossible because we’ve suffered this season.’
On a side note , that made me laugh
Thank you for that excellent in-depth analysis, enjoyed reading that.
Meanwhile, Phil Neville — Moyes’s captain at Everton and now on his staff at Old Trafford — admitted United have let their fans down.
‘We have not fulfilled any expectations,’ he said. ‘We have failed and that doesn’t sit kindly with anyone.
‘I find it difficult to watch Match of the Day. I find it almost impossible because we’ve suffered this season.’
On a side note , that made me laugh
That statement highlights the exact feelings I get about MOTD. I've stopped watching it, this season, even if we've performed well. I just can't bear to watch it simply because we've suffered this season.
I wonder how the Moyes cultists will react to his comments.
Seconded. It will be even worse next season if we have to watch Steven fecking Gerrard placing the Premier League onto a little table or something at the start of each show. The year after City won I always tuned in a few minutes late.
Who are these Moyes Cultists? Do they wear robes and sacrifice a football each night before a cross? Can you name any?
No but they do carry crosses.
I'm more of a Moyes agnostic. I may or may not believe in him.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...hackles-Everton-ahead-David-Moyes-return.html
Baines on the difference between Moyes and Martinez, again none too complimentary.
This is telling and sums up Moyes, worries far too much about nullifying the opposition.
Spot the difference between attitudes, moyes has put a lot of energy into lowering expectations this season as well as trying to get us to accept mediocrity.
Heres moyes in september after a 4-1 derby defeat:
Baines on the difference between Moyes and Martinez, again none too complimentary.
This is telling and sums up Moyes, worries far too much about nullifying the opposition.
Spot the difference between attitudes, moyes has put a lot of energy into lowering expectations this season as well as trying to get us to accept mediocrity.
Heres moyes in september after a 4-1 derby defeat:
I already put the cross joke in my post 
Sorry. Hope your not cross at me.I already put the cross joke in my post
Pretty much explains Moyes' comments before the game against Newcastle at Old Trafford.
It's what we've been saying all season, good to hear someone finally come out and say it as well.
He couldn't of put it better if he had just said "Moyes, you are full of shit".
Jesus Christ. Finally someone comes out and says the bleeding obvious about our squad quality and where the problem actually is. The Chelsea comparison has bafflingly escaped every pundit and expert out there somehow, until now.
I've made the Chelsea comparison before and got told by fellow Utd fans I was talking BS.
Joking aside. You said your a Moyes agnostic. Can I ask why you haven't come to a conclusion on him yet?
Just I'm thinking... considering your opinions aren't Pro or Anti-Moyes means they're more likely to be balanced...and certainly more interesting than some of the endless repetitive ramblings going on in this thread over the last few days.
I'm going to have to apologise as I've had a fair amount to drink tonight and struggling to write my thoughts down properly! I'll give you a better explanation of my opinion tomorrow if you want.
Cliff notes:
He's had a shit season. There have also been a lot of other factors this season which aren't his fault, not least of which is Fergie leaving. I don't think many people understand how big a deal that is in relation to the mind-set of the team. Nevertheless, he hasn't handled his setbacks well.
However, it's hard to argue that his record at Everton and Preston doesn't show him to be a talented manager. He's also shown at his previous clubs that he is adaptable but that he can sometimes take a bit of time to get there.
I'm personally quite happy to give the guy another season if the club thinks it's an acceptable risk. If we have another shit season, so be it. If he comes good, then it'll be fecking fantastic as we'll have a top manager who will be loyal and remain for some time.
Martinez destroyed Moyes there. Delighted. Hope the excuse machine is suitably embarrassed.
Fair enough.Couple of questions. I'll shoot em tommorrow.
(ps. Ironically tonight im a designated
)I'm hoping that I haven't unintentionally made @Shamwow a Moyes supporter lol.
I really don't think Moyes can be proactive given the pressure of expectation placed on Moyes with this job. I think what Sir Alex is trying to do is to try to settle him down so that he can actually play some proactive football like his Preston days. However, I don't ever think he'll be proactive and instead will be overly defensive just to be safe and try to get the 3 points George Graham style.
I'm a Moyes agnostic. I still like your analysis, it was well written. I like any opinion that is well thought out.
Its always the same Moyes enablers, can't seem to think rationally for themselves anymore, the whole terrible aging squad excuse has been BS since minute one, if Giggs and Rio for example had retired prior Moyes arrival, he would, no doubt be babbling on about not having the experience within the squad which the Moyes enablers and the Pro-British press would also greedily gobble down.
Martinez summed it all up there, short, simple and to the point, of course there are legitimate reasons why Moyes has had a tough first year but the overal quality and age of the squad is far from the be all and end its being made out to be.
Moyes enablers
. Love some of the terms people have come out with this season. I'm going to remain a Moyes agnostic.Moyes's "aging squad" spiel has some supporters believe that as well, which actually contradicts with what Sir Alex Ferguson believes and shows that he doesn't believe in his players.
True. The team that won the league by a good distance last year should not drop to 7th so fast. Its more bad management than bad players imo. If even he was challenging then he would have some excuse, but for me he really has no excuses. The carling cup display vs sunderland in the second leg was one of the worst games I ever saw united play. I don't think moyes has done enough to deserve to spend 200 million. He could yet prove me wrong, but I don't think I have seen anything to suggest otherwise. I feel sorry for him as he seems like a nice man, but at the end of the day he is being paid millions and all he seems to be doing is destroy united. I would imagine a lot of people would be jealous of him to be in that scenario where they get paid millions to do a bad job and maybe be kept on.
These are the 4 major points made by Moyes apologists:
1. The squad is awful- We are the champions.
2. The league was terrible last season. I guess that means the league also sucked in previous seasons when this same squad competed for the title.
3. RVP single handedly won the league. We won the league in 2011 and lost on goal difference in 2012(choked an 8 point lead with 5 games to go) minus RVP. We scored 86 goals in the EPL last season. 26 scored by RVP. Obviously someone else was scoring goals as well. I don't see people diminishing Barca and Real Madrid's accomplishments when Messi and Ronaldo are scoring 60+ goals for them a season( a much bigger percentage of the team's goals than RVP). Since when is it a bad thing for the striker of a team to score goals?
4. SAF told us to stand by the manager. I have a mind of my own. If SAF told you to jump off a bridge, would you do it?
1. The squad is awful- We are the champions.
2. The league was terrible last season. I guess that means the league also sucked in previous seasons when this same squad competed for the title.
3. RVP single handedly won the league. We won the league in 2011 and lost on goal difference in 2012(choked an 8 point lead with 5 games to go) minus RVP. We scored 86 goals in the EPL last season. 26 scored by RVP. Obviously someone else was scoring goals as well. I don't see people diminishing Barca and Real Madrid's accomplishments when Messi and Ronaldo are scoring 60+ goals for them a season( a much bigger percentage of the team's goals than RVP). Since when is it a bad thing for the striker of a team to score goals?
4. SAF told us to stand by the manager. I have a mind of my own. If SAF told you to jump off a bridge, would you do it?
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