Moyes So Far!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Theon said:
Depends how highly you rated Moyes and assessed his time at Everton, a lot of people do rate him (clearly including Ferguson) in which case it isn't seen as a real risk in their eyes - he is the right man for the job.

Who would you have preferred?
Click to expand...
Even if you rate his time at Everton as high as high as realistically possible, I still wouldn't think you could get close to describing it as exceptional for example... He had them finishing an average position of 8th over his time there, he never got them to the CL group stages, never got anywhere in the Uefa cup, never won a trophy, didn't have them playing a brand of football that you'd describe as extraordinary or surprising for a club of their size... It was just, good, solid even.

It's not even just about trophies, if we were going to give an unexpected manager a shot at the big time there were coaches who'd proven they can get there teams playing with great style, progressed their clubs and taken them above their station to a greater degree than Moyes had done. It felt like a very dreary appointment, truth be told.
 
Dominos said:
Even if you rate his time at Everton as high as high as realistically possible, I still wouldn't think you could get close to describing it as exceptional for example... He had them finishing an average position of 8th over his time there, he never got them to the CL group stages, never got anywhere in the Uefa cup, never won a trophy, didn't have them playing a brand of football that you'd describe as extraordinary or surprising for a club of their size... It was just, good, solid even.

It's not even just about trophies, if we were going to give an unexpected manager a shot at the big time there were coaches who'd proven they can get there teams playing with great style, progressed their clubs and taken them above their station to a greater degree than Moyes had done. It felt like a very dreary appointment, truth be told.
Click to expand...

When he took the job they were 15th, and the year before that 16th. So building them up to a consistent top 6/7 team is outstanding - even more so when you consider the budgetary constraints.

I don't want to discuss the merits of hiring Moyes or his time at Everton though, its was done to death on here before he was appointed so I'd just be repeating myself. The point I was making is that for many people it wasn't a strange choice, or an uninspired and dreary one - for many it was the correct choice, including Ferguson.

As I said it depends how you assess a number of factors, obviously the success or lack of that he had at Everton for one. Then things like his transfer record, approach to youth and even his manner/behaviour (contrast with Mourinho for example). There were very good reasons for hiring Moyes.
 
Kid Cunto said:

Nevile's view on the weekend and Moyes. Worth a watch for those who haven't seen it.
Click to expand...


Very much what I felt then, it seemed West Brom reacted to our jammy goal wanting to put things straight, while we looked like the visiting team happy to have equalised.
 
Kid Cunto said:

Nevile's view on the weekend and Moyes. Worth a watch for those who haven't seen it.
Click to expand...


Neville really is fantastic, wasted as a pundit. Will make an excellent coach at United one day.
In regards to the video, it'd worry me as a United fan. It's such a strange reaction. The winning mentality is always thought to be drilled into the players, but that video makes me think Fergie may have been even more important in that regard than I ever thought.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Well, pardon me - but then you are plainly and obviously reading it wrongly. He is talking about winning the Champions League, not about winning the next match in the group.

And, about the bold part - do you think he communicates with his players through comments like these? Does any manager? These are messages to the media and the fans, not to his players. Are they ideal messages to the media and the fans? Now, that we can argue about. But it's an entirely different debate.
Click to expand...

I'm simply saying was it the ideal message to send two day before a match while coming off the back of two losses? You are right we can't win the CL but does that mean we don't try?

The Gary Nev punditry sums it all up very well and I can't say I didn't learn a few things from it but it still doesn't change my view on the timing of his message.
 
Kid Cunto said:

Nevile's view on the weekend and Moyes. Worth a watch for those who haven't seen it.
Click to expand...


Neville has really summed up the situation we are in. SAF has left a huge gap but Moyes will be given time and we fans should be realistic and stop dreaming. Also Carrager is a shit pundit who didn't win the league.
 
Six matches into David Moyes' six-year contract and Manchester United lie 12th in the Premier League, two points behind Aston Villa, for whom the fixture computer fiddled an even harder start. Only Swansea and the bottom three have conceded more goals than the champions, who haven't scored from open play in the top flight since the first match of the season. It's really not going to plan. Perhaps the worst part of United's dreadful form is that Moyes still hasn't got to grips with the increased media exposure. Since his first day in the job on July 1, the manager has looked like a rabbit in the headlights, and that uncertainty has translated to the players' performances.

First came Moyes' wide-eyed admiration of the strength in depth he suddenly had at his disposal. "The squad Manchester United has, without any additions, will be tough opponents for any team this year," said the manager of July 29. "That is the squad that finished 11 points clear in the Premier League. I am confident in that squad." Moyes also added, "I wouldn't be worried if I didn't add to the squad." But then, after only Marouane Fellaini arrived on deadline day and following a 4-1 thrashing by City, doubts began to creep in, with the manager claiming that the reason for United's title victory "was probably the (form) of other teams that were poor".

Now United need "one or two to go right into the team". The squad lacks "five or six world-class players" to win the Champions League and, in what is the most small-time quote for a manager of Manchester United, Moyes insisted after the defeat to West Brom that: "We will just go out and try and win the next one." We will just go out and try and win the next one...

Moyes also hasn't helped himself by haemorrhaging signs of weakness as the questions become more pointed. Why did Moyes claim that United aren't good enough to win the Champions League on the back of a hugely disappointing home defeat to West Brom? That may be true, but with the champions' confidence lower than it has been in a long time, the last thing the squad needed was another kicking. Moyes has already suggested that last year's title victory owes much to the weakness of United's Premier League rivals and undermining his team in this manner is unlikely to engender improved performances. http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11096/8949791/weekend-review
Click to expand...
Without attempting to sound patronising, maybe Moyes does need PR training.
 
Revan said:
Considering in which player he spent 27.5m, owners would be idiots to give him money to spend now. We could easily end with a Liverpool scenario, buying expensive shit players who are in big wages and then get stucked with them.
Click to expand...


Yes, because we don't have an obvious hole in our squad that every team in the world can see and they won't make us pay a huge transfer fee for said player.

That's not at all what's happening. Stay focused on that 27 million player you've deemed a failure after 6 games.
 
Sultan said:
If you don't think fans support help, I'm at a loss what to say, buddy.
Click to expand...

I think its just venting our frustration, Moyes wasn't the best man for the job, hence many of us here have the "I told you so mentality"

But I don't think that translates to the pitch "yet"

we're just venting our frustration (something we're not accustomed to under SAF), and its a bit of learning processes for us.

Although I perceive, this place is at it best when things don't work well, we see people discussing and bantering more ever than when we're strolling with wins.

I guess one thing that many of us forgets is that, it is also a transition period for the fans, to adjust to life post SAF
 
He needs to be more considered about his public utterances. I cant see how anything he has said can have any influence on the players except to give them an excuse for failure. But I am sure he is learning how every word he utters is scrutinised to a level he probably never had to worry about at Everton. Moyes is a strong character. I believe he will get it right. His way. But right now he is dealing with a squad that needs revamping.

This season will be up and downs as he says. And we have no divine right to win anything. But most on here who grew up before SAF walked in will remember the real bad times. A few losses. so what? a season of no silverware. big deal. David Moyes deserves our support and I believe we will see the benefits of that next season and possibly even this one with a bit of luck. But patience is whats needed. Not getting whipped up into a frenzy of a lynchmob by journos and oppo fans that have been waiting years just to relish creating such a scenario
 
Kingcon said:
We're not even a month out of the Liverpool loss where Moyes declared he was "really impressed" & he could "see why they're champions" in referencing an absolute dismal performance.

So now we are 6 players short of competing in the CL?

Moyes needs PR lessons like yesterday because he's not helping his cause.
Click to expand...


Can you imagine what many would have said if he said these things after his first major loss? It would be probably within this line 'Oh god, he went into meltdown after 1 loss' or 'he cant handle the pressure'. I am struggling to understand why so many people hate Moyes for stating the bloody obvious. We all know that this team lack quality to seriously compete with the likes of Bayern and Barca don't we? How many 80 minutes of pure humilation (from Barcelona) do we need before we acknowledge that?

SAF was a legend. He had nothing to prove, he was the most successful manager in our club's history and no one could fire him. Moyes has alot to proof and he cant afford being taken for a ride by his own players because he will get fired.
 
Sultan said:
I'm old school. When things are not going as expected we increase our support for the people in charge, and players.
Click to expand...


I try to be objective as much as possible (usually I fail hehehe).

I am not Moyes no 1 fan. I don't think he was appropriate for the job + some of his tactics and players selections were a bit meah. However I can't put a manager whose not being backed by his players and who wasn't allowed to bring the quality CM he wanted to blame.
 
I've read a headline this morning that said the Glazers have admitted that Moyes coming in so late is the reason behind our slow start this season. I found that odd over the summer. Was it so that we didn't have to pay Everton any compensation, even though it would have only been 4-6 weeks worth of compensation? It was weird because at one point Martinez had signed and started at Everton, had done his first presser and everything but still Moyes wasn't officially allowed to be our manager because he was still in contract at Everton. I wonder if anything would have been different had he come in earlier or if it's just an excuse being pedalled now that things are going wrong.

The transfer window was a massive missed opportunity for me. I've never thought Fellaini was the right CM for us, but if we were going to get him, and it looks like we always were, not bringing him in until the 11th hour was a huge mistake. He could have had an entire preseason getting used to his teammates but now he's having to learn his role and how he needs to play for us during competitive games and it shows. His teething problems that we're seeing now could have been ironed out in our preseason games and he could have hit the ground running at the start of the season.

The dithering during the window was detrimental. There needed to be a bullish aggression to go out and support the new manager, who was always going to have it all against him following Fergie, but instead the amateurish bumbling about made us look uninformed and naive.

Back to Moyes, I keep going hot and cold on him. I was against his appointment before he became our manager but have since warmed to him a bit and will support him regardless of my previous opinions. My biggest concern was that he isn't a winner and nothing I have seen or heard so far suggests that he possesses that winning mentality that we are so used to here, and his recent quotes confirm that. Hopefully it's something he can learn whilst here and I'm sure the board will give him time and support to.
 
LR7 said:
I've read a headline this morning that said the Glazers have admitted that Moyes coming in so late is the reason behind our slow start this season. I found that odd over the summer. Was it so that we didn't have to pay Everton any compensation, even though it would have only been 4-6 weeks worth of compensation? It was weird because at one point Martinez had signed and started at Everton, had done his first presser and everything but still Moyes wasn't officially allowed to be our manager because he was still in contract at Everton. I wonder if anything would have been different had he come in earlier or if it's just an excuse being pedalled now that things are going wrong.

The transfer window was a massive missed opportunity for me. I've never thought Fellaini was the right CM for us, but if we were going to get him, and it looks like we always were, not bringing him in until the 11th hour was a huge mistake. He could have had an entire preseason getting used to his teammates but now he's having to learn his role and how he needs to play for us during competitive games and it shows. His teething problems that we're seeing now could have been ironed out in our preseason games and he could have hit the ground running at the start of the season.

The dithering during the window was detrimental. There needed to be a bullish aggression to go out and support the new manager, who was always going to have it all against him following Fergie, but instead the amateurish bumbling about made us look uninformed and naive.

Back to Moyes, I keep going hot and cold on him. I was against his appointment before he became our manager but have since warmed to him a bit and will support him regardless of my previous opinions. My biggest concern was that he isn't a winner and nothing I have seen or heard so far suggests that he possesses that winning mentality that we e been a training ground for manare so used to here, and his recent quotes confirm that. Hopefully it's something he can learn whilst here and I'm sure the board will give him time and support to.
Click to expand...


The thing is that United should/would never have been a training ground for a manager of the highest level.
 
Moyes is struggling, his comments are not helpful. You don't think players read the papers and news, how do you think they feel when the manager delivers a public criticism of the squad.

Everyone and his dog identified United weakness and Moyes response was to over 3 months to sign Fellaini for £4m more than his release.
There is an air of Kenny Dalglish about him, making uninspiring signings and playing simple 4 4 2.

I wouldnt mind if the performances were good but results bad and that there was a clear direction the team was heading in.
 
Personally he wasn't my first choice (Mourinho was) but I do think Moyes will do a sufficient job... in time. Somewhere between Dave Sexton and Ron Atkinson type footie.

Question is whether he will get the time?
 
AlwaysRedwood said:
Yes, because we don't have an obvious hole in our squad that every team in the world can see and they won't make us pay a huge transfer fee for said player.

That's not at all what's happening. Stay focused on that 27 million player you've deemed a failure after 5 years
Click to expand...
Corrected!
 
sglowrider said:
The thing is that United should/would never have been a training ground for a manager of the highest level.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Fergie longevity was he created a whole team and system at the club by devolving responsibility. This allowed him to be in control but not doing everything himself. So we had great assistant coaches in Kidd, Mclaren, Queiroz leave but we maintained success.

Ronaldo left but we had a style of play that still made us remain succesful.

Moyes came in and going against Fergie own advice gutted the backroom staff. Now it seems he wants 5/6? World class players and will he be given the money to cull players?
 
Commadus said:
Exactly.

Fergie longevity was he created a whole team and system at the club by devolving responsibility. This allowed him to be in control but not doing everything himself. So we had great assistant coaches in Kidd, Mclaren, Queiroz leave but we maintained success.

Ronaldo left but we had a style of play that still made us remain succesful.

Moyes came in and going against Fergie own advice gutted the backroom staff. Now it seems he wants 5/6? World class players and will he be given the money to cull players?
Click to expand...


One on-field gauge of a manager is his substitutions and the off-field gauge is his transfer choices. Both are worrying at the moment.

But I am hoping that Felliani, who is almost like a January Transfer due to the last minuteness of it -- will come good like to be the Evra/Vidic types who came good in a year later.

I suspect that Moyes had no idea how big United was the day he walked in. He should have kept key members of the Fergie staff. Issues of loyalty wont be there since Fergie hand-picked Moyes. We lost a lot of CL experience.

Crist sake -- even the retired Albert has been involved in more games that all of Moyes and his staff combined!!
 
Keep the faith guys. Shit result at the weekend, but keep the faith. It was always going to start off as a struggle. Start shouting Moyes out or in after December. We always start off slow, and the fixture list hasn't helped. We'll win our next league game, don't worry.
 
Slevs said:
Keep the faith guys. Shit result at the weekend, but keep the faith. It was always going to start off as a struggle. Start shouting Moyes out or in after December. We always start off slow, and the fixture list hasn't helped. We'll win our next league game, don't worry.
Click to expand...

Many said this after the City game. We'll be coming from a trip to Ukraine, that too on a Wednesday night, and no away game comes with a guarantee of a win. Just saying that we shouldn't keep the hopes too high at the moment with the team playing the way it is, it will make it all the more difficult for Moyes if we don't get a positive result in Ukraine or at Sunderland.
 
Bestie07 said:
Many said this after the City game. We'll be coming from a trip to Ukraine, that too on a Wednesday night, and no away game comes with a guarantee of a win. Just saying that we shouldn't keep the hopes too high at the moment with the team playing the way it is, it will make it all the more difficult for Moyes if we don't get a positive result in Ukraine or at Sunderland.
Click to expand...


I know but the west brom result was a freak accident that only occurs every once in a blue moon. We'll win away at Sunderland, I'm sure of it. I'm expecting a draw in the Ukraine, quite possibly a sneaky win.
 
Slevs said:
I know but the west brom result was a freak accident that only occurs every once in a blue moon. We'll win away at Sunderland, I'm sure of it. I'm expecting a draw in the Ukraine, quite possibly a sneaky win.
Click to expand...

A draw in Ukraine will be a positive result. Anything other than a win at Sunderland will not be good. Losing to Shakhtar or failing to beat Sunderland will mean that the press will have their fun during the international break.
 
Bestie07 said:
A draw in Ukraine will be a positive result. Anything other than a win at Sunderland will not be good. Losing to Shakhtar or failing to beat Sunderland will mean that the press will have their fun during the international break.
Click to expand...


There's an international break coming up? Thank God for that.

Win at Sunderland and he's in the clear for that week, lets some pressure off him and he can concentrate on the team more.
 
Just on his comments about the squad needing investment, which he is being crucified over. That's exactly the sort of thing Mourinho has said in the past and been praised for putting pressure on the owners to take their cheque book out and improve the team. For Moyes, though, he's undermining the existing players and showing weakness. Double standards in action. All the more so because his most vocal critics on here wanted mourinho in charge.
 
I suppose much of the criticism is warranted, but the players need to stand up and be counted. Ok we weren't the best side we've ever had, but we were better than the rest last term. The table doesn't lie. No matter who's in charge or what tactics/coaching is employed, we should quite simply be playing better than this. Anyway I can't understand why a high proportion of the fan base won't accept that this was probably always going to be a transitional year. Back him, not fecking beat him with a stick after a handful of games.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Just on his comments about the squad needing investment, which he is being crucified over. That's exactly the sort of thing Mourinho has said in the past and been praised for putting pressure on the owners to take their cheque book out and improve the team. For Moyes, though, he's undermining the existing players and showing weakness. Double standards in action. All the more so because his most vocal critics on here wanted mourinho in charge.
Click to expand...

It's the timing more than anything.
 
Commadus said:
Exactly.

Fergie longevity was he created a whole team and system at the club by devolving responsibility. This allowed him to be in control but not doing everything himself. So we had great assistant coaches in Kidd, Mclaren, Queiroz leave but we maintained success.

Ronaldo left but we had a style of play that still made us remain succesful.

Moyes came in and going against Fergie own advice gutted the backroom staff. Now it seems he wants 5/6? World class players and will he be given the money to cull players?
Click to expand...

In a single post you remind everyone how many different coaches Fergie worked with over the years, while simultaneously slagging moyes off for making the latest in a long line of backroom changes. You absolute weapon.
 
Bestie07 said:
It's the timing more than anything.
Click to expand...

And the fact most of his non world class squad has won a truckload of medals so, while the point is correct, I wouldn't be surprised if a few of those who feel targeted just wonder what the feck he has won to go around making such statements. Yes, some are clearly not performing but -going back to timing- many may just see it as the manager squarely deflecting blame onto them.

Could go round in circles with theories. Basically, he'd be better off shutting up.
 
brewlio said:
I suppose much of the criticism is warranted, but the players need to stand up and be counted. Ok we weren't the best side we've ever had, but we were better than the rest last term. The table doesn't lie. No matter who's in charge or what tactics/coaching is employed, we should quite simply be playing better than this. Anyway I can't understand why a high proportion of the fan base won't accept that this was probably always going to be a transitional year. Back him, not fecking beat him with a stick after a handful of games.
Click to expand...


Agreed 100%. It was always going to be transitional. Minimum requirements should be to qualify for the Champions League and make a push for the title. Winning it would be a bonus.
 
Aye, Mourinho would never take over a squad full of top class players, with loads of medals, and say it needs improving.

Oh wait...

The timing is what it is. He obviously didn't want to go into the opening games saying our squad was flawed but now it's obvious we do have issues and the next transfer window is getting closer... Again, it's nothing we haven't heard from other top managers in similar circumstances. The notable exception being Wenger but he's been very clear that the money was never there to spend, so what's the point having a go at the owners.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Aye, Mourinho would never take over a squad full of top class players, with loads of medals, and say it needs improving.

Oh wait...
Click to expand...

Stop comparing to other coaches! The issue people have is that he was saying that he was happy with the squad when the transfer window was open, and now that we have had a few bad results he is now suddenly saying that he needs new first team players. We all know that our first team needs improvements, just that now is not the time to say that, specially when nothing can be done about it with the window closed.
 
Stop comparing to other coaches? How else do you bench-mark the behaviour of a coach? (presume you mean manager)

As for the window being closed, that's never stopped clubs from starting work on transfers. Personally, I prefer power struggles with owners being kept in-house. Never been a fan of mourinho's approach. Just find it hypocritical that many people on here that think the sun shine out Jose's arse are slagging moyes off for comments that we've often heard from mourinho in the past.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Stop comparing to other coaches? How else do you bench-mark the behaviour of a coach? (presume you mean manager)

As for the window being closed, that's never stopped clubs from starting work on transfers. Personally, I prefer power struggles with owners being kept in-house. Never been a fan of mourinho's approach. Just find it hypocritical that many people on here that think the sun shine out Jose's arse are slagging moyes off for comments that we've often heard from mourinho in the past.
Click to expand...


It's because Mourinho's way is a sure fire way of success whereas if Moyes implements the same thing and fails, he'll be seen as a fool, similarly as he'll be seen as a genius if it works. I actually agree with your point but just explaining why people think that way.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Stop comparing to other coaches? How else do you bench-mark the behaviour of a coach? (presume you mean manager)

As for the window being closed, that's never stopped clubs from starting work on transfers. Personally, I prefer power struggles with owners being kept in-house. Never been a fan of mourinho's approach. Just find it hypocritical that many people on here that think the sun shine out Jose's arse are slagging moyes off for comments that we've often heard from mourinho in the past.
Click to expand...

Mourinho might have done the same thing, maybe even worse, and that's why we didn't hire him. We hired Moyes because he doesn't thrive on conflict like Mourinho does. Mourinho will create a shitstorm out of nothing, like he is doing with Mata at Chelsea. I'd not be comparing Moyes to Mourinho, simply because their qualities are entirely different. Moyes hasn't managed a big club so far, and his media handling style is completely different to Mourinho.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Well, pardon me - but then you are plainly and obviously reading it wrongly. He is talking about winning the Champions League, not about winning the next match in the group.

And, about the bold part - do you think he communicates with his players through comments like these? Does any manager? These are messages to the media and the fans, not to his players. Are they ideal messages to the media and the fans? Now, that we can argue about. But it's an entirely different debate.
Click to expand...

I personally think the remark was directed towards the owners to loosen the purse strings.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.